This is really more than anything else about the drawbacks to capitalist society. Americans are once again making decisions about communication which will impact our social and financial well-being based on the whims of large businesses. (this isn't new, the US government used to give away FM radio stations) It points at how ill-informed people are who believe that the Internet is special because of its bidirectional mode of communication. Financially speaking, to those attempting to regulate it, it's a source of revenue. Just remember:
1. Technologically there is NO reason why they can't do this.
2. Unregulated Internet usage is a huge untapped source of telecommunications revenue in the USA.
As far as I know every method of mass communication is controlled by the the government here in the U.S. to some degree. Whether it's CB Radios, Commercial AM/FM Radio, Television...... even the mail, recorded and print media has to follow laws that are in place.
But is this an American phenomena???
Aren't these things under the control of the governemnt in EVERY country??
And what would make anyone think that the Internet would be the exception to this rule??
Without debating whether it's "right or wrong"....isn't this just the way of the world??
Different countries have vastly differing regulation, whether it be government or self-governing (such as industry groups like the RIAA). Some places have it better (IMHO) and some worse. I focused on the USA because this is where it is happening.
This is not a rhetorical argument. Since you brought it up, do you want the Internet to go the way to radio, where the FCC (/AT&T/Verizon) tells you what you can and cannot say online? You get a $10,000 bill for typing "fuck"? Or how about when you can't connect to an ISP and you get hit with a monthly bill based on how much you downloaded?
The Internet will get a lot less special unless people aren't going to have it.
This is really more than anything else about the drawbacks to capitalist society. Americans are once again making decisions about communication which will impact our social and financial well-being based on the whims of large businesses. (this isn't new, the US government used to give away FM radio stations) It points at how ill-informed people are who believe that the Internet is special because of its bidirectional mode of communication. Financially speaking, to those attempting to regulate it, it's a source of revenue. Just remember:
1. Technologically there is NO reason why they can't do this.
2. Unregulated Internet usage is a huge untapped source of telecommunications revenue in the USA.
As far as I know every method of mass communication is controlled by the the government here in the U.S. to some degree. Whether it's CB Radios, Commercial AM/FM Radio, Television...... even the mail, recorded and print media has to follow laws that are in place.
But is this an American phenomena???
Aren't these things under the control of the governemnt in EVERY country??
And what would make anyone think that the Internet would be the exception to this rule??
Without debating whether it's "right or wrong"....isn't this just the way of the world??
Do you even beleive the things you write? Do just like to take the other side to piss off liberals?
Yes, you are right, CB Radios, Commercial AM/FM Radio, Television...... even the mail is controled by the government.
Yes, you are right, freedom exsists on the internet in the US unfettered by government.
Yes, you are right, France and China and other countries have more control over what is on the net than our country.
Since the early days of the internet, right or wrong, the internet (for us) has been wide open and free. This has meant interactive political speech the likes of which this country has never seen. This has meant endless amounts of porn the likes of which the world has never seen. This has meant 9 year olds on myspace pretending to be 19 year olds and using dirty words. This has meant that every record collector is now also a record seller. This has meant that White people can argue with Black people over the definition of acting white.
Most of us do not want to shrug our shoulders and say "this is the way of world". Most of us want to keep our freedom. When it is gone, I will blame you.
You'll blame me because I'm the guy who pointed out that the Internet is going to be regulated just like every other medium already is on every inch of the Planet.....that's brilliant.
Seriously, what are you smoking to think that it would wind up any other way.
I'm just calling it like I see it and apparently the reality of that pisses people off?????
I didn't say I supported this inevitable result, I just don't live in a dream world where I wish/hope/pray it doesn't happen......anyone with any foresight could have predicted this 10 years ago.
I am of the opinion that this is a large enough issue to warrant a National Referrendum[/b]. And I'm sure you'll find that most people who believe in "Freedom" and "Democracy" would vote in favour of the status quo.
What sort of impact will this have on non-US residents who frequent US sites? I'm against it, but I still don't understand what the implications will be on myself in Australia.
Couldn't sites host things in other countries and avoid the facism? The scariest thing about the whole situation is that politicians don't seem to know what they're talking about.
not like you shouldn't fight it but anything goes on the internet and these companies need to make more money. they don't have enough as it is.
funny how it just snuck up on you...
not a mention about it in the new york times, guess the "paper of record" doesn't find it important enough to even report about something with such broad repercussions.
What sort of impact will this have on non-US residents who frequent US sites? I'm against it, but I still don't understand what the implications will be on myself in Australia.
Couldn't sites host things in other countries and avoid the facism? The scariest thing about the whole situation is that politicians don't seem to know what they're talking about.
What the ISPs are shooting for is the legal ability to slow down access to sites who don't pay for premium service. That likely won't matter what country the site is in. Unless the site is in a nation that passes some sort of net neutrality regulation (Sweden, I'm looking at you).
Seriously, I mean, I really hate to be so cynical but I don't think the avenues suggested/available to challenge this will do much good. And I did email my congresswoman - and have done so for shit like this for years in these types of situations. It used to make me feel like I was making a difference, but it just doesn't anymore. And if history is indeed a good indicator of the future, we'll definitely see this come to pass. sorry, but it's the truth.
Anyone know exactly how much it'll cost a fella to have a website in the "fast lane" in this brave new world?
I know it's easy to say "ahh, what's the use?" but the flippant tone of some people in this thread is even more disheartening. This is something that will effect generations to come. MY CHILDREN. That, to me, is quite serious.
Apathy is for pussies.
What's up with this country? It's ok to let these motherfuckers do what they like without a fight? I don't know about you, but I'm sick of this shit.
Day, I totally agree, and feel your outrage, but what do we even have to fight with at this point? I'd honestly like to able to do something, as I have what I consider a fair amount to loose here, but I honestly can't think of any way to fight this. Sooo many painful things have happened on a political/social level in the last 6 years that I'm almost unable to feel anything about anything like this anymore. I realize that is basically apathy defined, but it is the only way I can cope at this point.
Day, I totally agree, and feel your outrage, but what do we even have to fight with at this point? I'd honestly like to able to do something, as I have what I consider a fair amount to loose here, but I honestly can't think of any way to fight this. Sooo many painful things have happened on a political/social level in the last 6 years that I'm almost unable to feel anything about anything like this anymore. I realize that is basically apathy defined, but it is the only way I can cope at this point.
I understand you totally.
We all have something to lose here and I think that's the main thing that paralyzes everyone. "Hey, it doesn't really affect me so I'm fine." Or to put it in RR speak "long as I have my clams...".
The last 6 years has brought a slow, delibrate change in this country and laid the groundwork for things like this to go unchecked because we all feel beaten down. It's like, if they can get away with that shit, then this is nothing. But where do we, as a country, draw the line?
Today of all days is a good time to reflect on this.
i agree these last few years have been disheartening, but the knowledge that these people with suspicious motivations are in charge and making moves affecting millions, displacing power from the commonwealth and putting it in the hands of more people supporting their suspicious motives - the magnitude of this perpetual circle-jerking is so that it's easy for me to find a reason to fight, daily. i just try to make a conscious effort to not sacrifice what i believe for the benefit of others. i know my motivations are true. valuing your beliefs and discussing with others (anyone you might come in contact with), is really the best thing you can do. i hear about this shit all day, i'm willing to talk about it all day if necessary.
i don't need to be told if something is significant or not.
The tubes of the internet must have been clogged because I just lost a monster post.
Maybe I can distill it:
1. You do not have a divine right to the internet. The US government created it and gave it away to the rest of the world which was really generous. They didn't have to do that. You are not entitled to 45 megabits for $40 a month nor are you entitled to 500 channels on your television. These are things you must pay for at the price they are offered by the company who provides them. If you do not like the terms then do not pay them. Again, you are NOT ENTITLED TO ANY OF THIS.
2. From some quotes gleened from a Senator who can barely construct complete sentences, you think that the US Goverment will censor free speach on the internet.
You really think that is true?
The US Government will sensor free speach on the internet (Y/N)
If Y, then what is the time frame you would expect this to take place in?
I would like to log in to my internets on that date to check and see if the government is intefereing with the tubes.
how do they wanna do that? what a silly idea. usa = russia or what?!
Man more like China. Try finding any info on the net about the 89 tiananmen square protests from within China. I set the challenge to my boss, whos back and forth all the time - $100 for a photo of him infront of a comp screen with anything related on it.
The US government created it and gave it away to the rest of the world which was really generous.
No, Al Gore did that.
But seriously, that's a laughable over-simplification. It took more than government initiative to "create the internet", and nobody gave it away to the world in a generous act of good will.
You do make a valid point about the inherent comercial aspect of the internet. However, I disagree with the idea that corporations should be allowed to practice business any way they'd like, without any sort of governement regulation or oversight. See "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" for an example of just how evil and harmful a corporation can be if left unchecked. Sure, we weren't born with the right to cheap internet access. We have no right to internet access at all. However, the global economy has been irreversably changed by technology and the internet. I think the potential risks in this situation outweigh the need for a completely free market.
1. You do not have a divine right to the internet. The US government created it and gave it away to the rest of the world which was really generous. They didn't have to do that. You are not entitled to 45 megabits for $40 a month nor are you entitled to 500 channels on your television. These are things you must pay for at the price they are offered by the company who provides them. If you do not like the terms then do not pay them. Again, you are NOT ENTITLED TO ANY OF THIS.
Ummm, did you read the link? ISP & telcos were already paid 200 billion dollars to provide these things to catch up with other parts of the world. Everyone that pays taxes in the US has paid for it and the work hasn't been done.
1. You do not have a divine right to the internet. The US government created it and gave it away to the rest of the world which was really generous. They didn't have to do that. You are not entitled to 45 megabits for $40 a month nor are you entitled to 500 channels on your television. These are things you must pay for at the price they are offered by the company who provides them. If you do not like the terms then do not pay them. Again, you are NOT ENTITLED TO ANY OF THIS.
Yeah, dude, last time I checked being American doesn't entitle us to anything more than a blind love for NASCAR and Jesus, but your above line of thinking is pretty laughable - though scary beacuse it is basically being practised whenever possible these days.
hold up... my landlord just knocked on the door to tell me he wants 10 times what I currently pay for rent. And, after all, I AM NOT ENTITLED TO an affordable roof over my head...
I just cant understand people actually supporting this shit. Its like you really want to give the internet away to the same bloated media corporations that already own the rest of the fucking planet.
The tubes of the internet must have been clogged because I just lost a monster post.
Maybe I can distill it:
1. You do not have a divine right to the internet. The US government created it and gave it away to the rest of the world which was really generous.
Replace US goverment with US Military and i think you can see where things are going...i repeat this is scary stay in your homes...no thats what they wnat you to do, remember the revolution will not be televised dudes...i'm hoping for a change in prime minister in the UK as our dude likes to copy whatever Bush does.
I just cant understand people actually supporting this shit. Its like you really want to give the internet away to the same bloated media corporations that already own the rest of the fucking planet.
Saying.
I think it's more an ideological thing, though. Like, people who really believe the in the free-market have to gulp this one down and defend it on the basis of "It's the corporations right!".
I love how capitalism is supposed to be this progressive developer, and here is a clear indication of it acting regressively and reactionary. The potentials for the internet are limitless and here people wish to place limitations on it simply to make money.
On another note, is there no mass organisation that is coordinating action on this stuff? Not even legal action?
Comments
Different countries have vastly differing regulation, whether it be government or self-governing (such as industry groups like the RIAA). Some places have it better (IMHO) and some worse. I focused on the USA because this is where it is happening.
This is not a rhetorical argument. Since you brought it up, do you want the Internet to go the way to radio, where the FCC (/AT&T/Verizon) tells you what you can and cannot say online? You get a $10,000 bill for typing "fuck"? Or how about when you can't connect to an ISP and you get hit with a monthly bill based on how much you downloaded?
The Internet will get a lot less special unless people aren't going to have it.
Out of curiousity, where is one of the places where it is better and why??
---
I still beleive in democracy.
Couldn't sites host things in other countries and avoid the facism? The scariest thing about the whole situation is that politicians don't seem to know what they're talking about.
not like you shouldn't fight it but anything goes on the internet and these companies need to make more money. they don't have enough as it is.
funny how it just snuck up on you...
not a mention about it in the new york times, guess the "paper of record" doesn't find it important enough to even report about something with such broad repercussions.
What the ISPs are shooting for is the legal ability to slow down access to sites who don't pay for premium service. That likely won't matter what country the site is in. Unless the site is in a nation that passes some sort of net neutrality regulation (Sweden, I'm looking at you).
Scary. They must really want this to go through.
I signed a petition weeks ago and wrote to my congresswoman.
f'real.
Anyone know exactly how much it'll cost a fella to have a website in the "fast lane" in this brave new world?
Hip Hop killed my parents.
and you probably didn't even get ANGRY!
I was talking about more general regulation, since you brought it up, not Internet regulation.
This is something that will effect generations to come. MY CHILDREN.
That, to me, is quite serious.
Apathy is for pussies.
What's up with this country? It's ok to let these motherfuckers do what they like without a fight? I don't know about you, but I'm sick of this shit.
I understand you totally.
We all have something to lose here and I think that's the main thing that paralyzes everyone. "Hey, it doesn't really affect me so I'm fine." Or to put it in RR speak "long as I have my clams...".
The last 6 years has brought a slow, delibrate change in this country and laid the groundwork for things like this to go unchecked because we all feel beaten down. It's like, if they can get away with that shit, then this is nothing. But where do we, as a country, draw the line?
Today of all days is a good time to reflect on this.
i don't need to be told if something is significant or not.
Maybe I can distill it:
1.
You do not have a divine right to the internet. The US government created it and gave it away to the rest of the world which was really generous. They didn't have to do that. You are not entitled to 45 megabits for $40 a month nor are you entitled to 500 channels on your television. These are things you must pay for at the price they are offered by the company who provides them. If you do not like the terms then do not pay them. Again, you are NOT ENTITLED TO ANY OF THIS.
2.
From some quotes gleened from a Senator who can barely construct complete sentences, you think that the US Goverment will censor free speach on the internet.
You really think that is true?
The US Government will sensor free speach on the internet (Y/N)
If Y, then what is the time frame you would expect this to take place in?
I would like to log in to my internets on that date to check and see if the government is intefereing with the tubes.
Man more like China. Try finding any info on the net about the 89 tiananmen square protests from within China. I set the challenge to my boss, whos back and forth all the time - $100 for a photo of him infront of a comp screen with anything related on it.
No $100.
No, Al Gore did that.
But seriously, that's a laughable over-simplification. It took more than government initiative to "create the internet", and nobody gave it away to the world in a generous act of good will.
You do make a valid point about the inherent comercial aspect of the internet. However, I disagree with the idea that corporations should be allowed to practice business any way they'd like, without any sort of governement regulation or oversight. See "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" for an example of just how evil and harmful a corporation can be if left unchecked. Sure, we weren't born with the right to cheap internet access. We have no right to internet access at all. However, the global economy has been irreversably changed by technology and the internet. I think the potential risks in this situation outweigh the need for a completely free market.
Ummm, did you read the link? ISP & telcos were already paid 200 billion dollars to provide these things to catch up with other parts of the world. Everyone that pays taxes in the US has paid for it and the work hasn't been done.
Yeah, dude, last time I checked being American doesn't entitle us to anything more than a blind love for NASCAR and Jesus, but your above line of thinking is pretty laughable - though scary beacuse it is basically being practised whenever possible these days.
hold up... my landlord just knocked on the door to tell me he wants 10 times what I currently pay for rent. And, after all, I AM NOT ENTITLED TO an affordable roof over my head...
Replace US goverment with US Military and i think you can see where things are going...i repeat this is scary stay in your homes...no thats what they wnat you to do, remember the revolution will not be televised dudes...i'm hoping for a change in prime minister in the UK as our dude likes to copy whatever Bush does.
I think it's more an ideological thing, though. Like, people who really believe the in the free-market have to gulp this one down and defend it on the basis of "It's the corporations right!".
I love how capitalism is supposed to be this progressive developer, and here is a clear indication of it acting regressively and reactionary. The potentials for the internet are limitless and here people wish to place limitations on it simply to make money.
On another note, is there no mass organisation that is coordinating action on this stuff? Not even legal action?