I think people would attempt to find "reasons" denigrate his acomplishments as well. I think people wouldn't sit there "amazed" like they are in regards to Roger Clemens.
And again, my sole issue is that it seems that Baseball is getting off easy in comparision to what he's having to go thru when he's playing under their confines. Show me the tape on UTube of him shooting up and I'll shut up. Where's Jeff Kent saying "I saw him take shit"? Didn't Peter Conte say whenhe got out of jail that Bonds didn't take any human growth hormones we produced??? It'll be interesting to see what happens when Anderson finally talks, but until he says "I gave him this that & the third and we got over on the tests this way" Until then, it's all speculation and shouldn't be entered in factual conversations.
He passed, he gonna break Ruth's record. Ban him if he's found guilty but until then take your panties off and prove you're a better pithcer than he is a hitter and beat him between the lines.
I think people would attempt to find "reasons" denigrate his acomplishments as well. I think people wouldn't sit there "amazed" like they are in regards to Roger Clemens.
And again, my sole issue is that it seems that Baseball is getting off easy in comparision to what he's having to go thru when he's playing under their confines. Show me the tape on UTube of him shooting up and I'll shut up. Where's Jeff Kent saying "I saw him take shit"? Didn't Peter Conte say whenhe got out of jail that Bonds didn't take any human growth hormones we produced??? It'll be interesting to see what happens when Anderson finally talks, but until he says "I gave him this that & the third and we got over on the tests this way" Until then, it's all speculation and shouldn't be entered in factual conversations.
He passed, he gonna break Ruth's record. Ban him if he's found guilty but until then take your panties off and prove you're a better pithcer than he is a hitter and beat him between the lines.
The REAL question in all this mess is how did Bonds not get included to even be questioned in the Government hearings when players like Curt Schilling, Jason Giambi, Rafael Palmeiro and Mark McGwire did??
The REAL question in all this mess is how did Bonds not get included to even be questioned in the Government hearings when players like Curt Schilling, Jason Giambi, Rafael Palmeiro and Mark McGwire did??
you don't have the eye of the storm and then look in astonishment when books about his use comes out??? People really aren't that stupid.
I think people would attempt to find "reasons" denigrate his acomplishments as well. I think people wouldn't sit there "amazed" like they are in regards to Roger Clemens.
And again, my sole issue is that it seems that Baseball is getting off easy in comparision to what he's having to go thru when he's playing under their confines. Show me the tape on UTube of him shooting up and I'll shut up. Where's Jeff Kent saying "I saw him take shit"? Didn't Peter Conte say whenhe got out of jail that Bonds didn't take any human growth hormones we produced??? It'll be interesting to see what happens when Anderson finally talks, but until he says "I gave him this that & the third and we got over on the tests this way" Until then, it's all speculation and shouldn't be entered in factual conversations.
He passed, he gonna break Ruth's record. Ban him if he's found guilty but until then take your panties off and prove you're a better pithcer than he is a hitter and beat him between the lines.
Pete Rose always said he never bet on baseball. For 15 years he said never gambled on baseball...Oh no! Oh horror! Baseball was able to ban him FOR LIFE without 1) an admission or 2) him failing a test. Grrrr.... All they had was a mountain of evidence. Jeesh, where do they get off suspending him with a mountain of evidence? And, where were all those players of his saying "I saw him bet on baseball!" And, all those shady ass bookies who just got out of jail said that he didn't do anything...Why did they suspend him?
Do you see the parallels here? Do you see what I'm driving at?
Also, as to your point that baseball is getting off in all of this...1) In the courst of public opinion, they aren't. 2) It is always harder to punish an institution than a player; sad, but true. 3) I agree that Bud Selig will not go down in history as the greatest commisioner; and people will probably judge Don Fehr harshly on this. But, what they did was at WORST turn the other cheek. Which, admittedly, is Not a Good Look, but it is not the same crime as BREAKING THE LAW. Don't get that twisted.
Who are these players saying they saw him use it???? the investigation of Pete Rose found him quilty and he was banned. Before that happened, I held the same position I hold For Bonds now - he's fucking innocent until he's found guilty. I'll be first in line to cast the stone (it's a fun thing to do for us jews) if/when that time comes. Until then, let's chillax.
I actually agree with Yo on this one. However, I don;t think it is entirely racial. Bonds is an ass who is getting screwed because he is wildly unpopular with the masses. Thus making him a perfect scapegoat for Selig et al. Roids weren't even tested for or against the rules until a few years ago. To start looking into the past without examining all of the players (which is really impossible) is a joke and public relations ploy. The commish and the union looked the other way because increased hr production was good for the bottom line and now that the ugly truth is coming out, they are looking to pin it on Barry. I hope motherfucker breaks Aaron's record so Selig has to give him a party. The uncomfortable smile will be a classic photo for sure.
Who are these players saying they saw him use it???? the investigation of Pete Rose found him quilty and he was banned. Before that happened, I held the same position I hold For Bonds now - he's fucking innocent until he's found guilty. I'll be first in line to cast the stone (it's a fun thing to do for us jews) if/when that time comes. Until then, let's chillax.
This is one thing I can't Chillax about...I know I'm a hard-liner about this shit, but that isn't changing, so whatevs. I'm fine with that, and I sleep great at night.
But, on to more pertinant things. The investigation that found Rose guilty was based not on confessions or failed tests, but tons of evidence. Which is what we have on Bonds, and frankly, coupled with the intuitive evidence of 1) his unprecented power explosion at the age of 40 and 2) the exponential physical growth of his fucking melon, that is MORE than enough to judge him.
I'm not saying there are players saying that they saw him use it; given the fear of Jim Bouton syndrome, I'd expect nobody would say anything if they DID see anything (Don't Snitch, yo...). And yes, innocent until proven guilty is nice, but baseball is different than the constitution. Remember- The Black Sox were found not guilty in court. Though, that didn't make a lick of difference in the court of baseball.
I actually agree with Yo on this one. However, I don;t think it is entirely racial. Bonds is an ass who is getting screwed because he is wildly unpopular with the masses. Thus making him a perfect scapegoat for Selig et al. Roids weren't even tested for or against the rules until a few years ago. To start looking into the past without examining all of the players (which is really impossible) is a joke and public relations ploy. The commish and the union looked the other way because increased hr production was good for the bottom line and now that the ugly truth is coming out, they are looking to pin it on Barry. I hope motherfucker breaks Aaron's record so Selig has to give him a party. The uncomfortable smile will be a classic photo for sure.
I thought Rafael Palmeiro was the perfect scapegoat.
Ended his career and lost his Viagra gig.
First time I saw Raffy hawking the erection pills I thought....ROIDS!!
Hammerin' Hank was a boyhood hero and politics aside, I think it would be a shame if his record is broken by ANYONE who doesn't play by the rules.
I actually agree with Yo on this one. However, I don;t think it is entirely racial. Bonds is an ass who is getting screwed because he is wildly unpopular with the masses. Thus making him a perfect scapegoat for Selig et al. Roids weren't even tested for or against the rules until a few years ago. To start looking into the past without examining all of the players (which is really impossible) is a joke and public relations ploy. The commish and the union looked the other way because increased hr production was good for the bottom line and now that the ugly truth is coming out, they are looking to pin it on Barry. I hope motherfucker breaks Aaron's record so Selig has to give him a party. The uncomfortable smile will be a classic photo for sure.
I don't think accepting a tainted record for a funny photo-op is worth it. But, that's just me.
I'm not saying its right that baseball looked the other way; BUT, to a LARGE extent, their hands were tied by the union. Remember, baseball and the union are NOT in the same bed here- Fehr fought baseball on testing after baseball tried to institute stricter rules. And, the only reason we got the stricter testing last season was because over a certain percentage (I believe it was 7%) tested positive the year before WHEN THEY KNEW before hand that they would be tested. Think about that- the Player's Union is arguing that there wasn't a problem with steroids. And testing was set up so that player's KNEW when they would be tested. And players STILL failed the test at a high enough rate that they were then obligated to enact the stricter plan. Please, go on- tell me this was the league's fault.
Like I said: the players, their union, and the league all share in the blame, and I'd love to see all of them hang for their actions (McGwire/Sosa/Palm/Bonds/Giambi/et al; Fehr; Selig- across the board). But, the players and the union fought testing and legality to the end, and they should be punished accordingly. Hence, I cut them the least slack.
Roids were not against the rules for most of the time that his use is alleged. I am a stickler for playing fair.
Google "1991 MLB Steroid Memo". You will get numerous links to the 1991 memo I referenced on the previous page where MLB outlined that steroids were illegal.
I have no problem debating some of the grayer areas on this issue; but this point that keeps coming up is wrong, and people need to stop saying that shit.
Roids illegal to possess without a prescription. The fact that roids was not in the bargaining agreement and were not necessarily illegal makes this a major gray area. Add to the fact that MLB capitulated to the union only makes this that much more ridiculous. I stand by my contention that this is a witch hunt albeit one where an asshole may get burned at the stake.
Roids illegal to possess without a prescription. The fact that roids was not in the bargaining agreement and were not necessarily illegal makes this a major gray area. Add to the fact that MLB capitulated to the union only makes this that much more ridiculous. I stand by my contention that this is a witch hunt albeit one where an asshole may get burned at the stake.
The weird thing with this whole issue is how all of a sudden it has become such a big deal by the media. The media knew what was happening years ago but ignored it. Now it's such a big issue. I remember one reporter said that Lenny Dykstra was taking special "vitamins" and laughing about it.
Roids illegal to possess without a prescription. The fact that roids was not in the bargaining agreement and were not necessarily illegal makes this a major gray area. Add to the fact that MLB capitulated to the union only makes this that much more ridiculous. I stand by my contention that this is a witch hunt albeit one where an asshole may get burned at the stake.
Well, Dr. Conti's prescriptions to Bonds for steroids, HGH, and cattle additives have yet to be publicized. So, I'm still going to hold him accountable.
And (for the millionth time) while MLB and specifically Selig should be punished/lose his job, at the time the MLB Union was among the strongest in the country. They had zero leverage; so little that they set up the cream puff testing I outlined above, and the players still managed to fail it.
And I stand by my conviction that it ceases to be a witch hunt when mountains of evidence that are deemed admissable in a federal case ALL point to one conclusion. See, a witch hunt involves wildly casting accusations towards players- saying things like, "I think Johnny Damon took steroids!" as happened last season. It is NOT a witch hunt when you have detailed documents outlining dosage schedules, evidence of Victor Conti and Greg Anderson driving from Balco to the Giants locker room, players such as Gary Sheffield saying the Bonds helped set him up with his trainer and training regimin which included taking steroids, an ex-lover saying that Bonds paid her off under the table so she wouldn't go public with her information on his steroid use...etc, etc, etc for hundreds of pages.
And I stand by my conviction that it ceases to be a witch hunt when mountains of evidence that are deemed admissable in a federal case ALL point to one conclusion. See, a witch hunt involves wildly casting accusations towards players- saying things like, "I think Johnny Damon took steroids!" as happened last season. It is NOT a witch hunt when you have detailed documents outlining dosage schedules, evidence of Victor Conti and Greg Anderson driving from Balco to the Giants locker room, players such as Gary Sheffield saying the Bonds helped set him up with his trainer and training regimin which included taking steroids, an ex-lover saying that Bonds paid her off under the table so she wouldn't go public with her information on his steroid use...etc, etc, etc for hundreds of pages.
Yeah, dude. Not a witch hunt.
If this is the truth why does there need to be an "investigation?" Slick Vic says he never gave Bonds steroids that were against MLB's policy as he exited prison (a laugh riot if there ever was one). But if the details are in that book, why not have them reporters just hand the shit over and my point of "if the league doesn't do anything it's not an issue" will disappear. All this third party he-said, she said isn't evidence - a cum-stained dress is.
And to Prime - it being illegal is like pointing out smoking/selling pot, driving 2 miles over the speed limit, writing collectros off on your taxes, not reporting profit from selling records etc. are against the law - are we gonna villify people do doing any of these things???? Getting caught seems to be the issue on some of those other things, why not this one? And I'm pretty sure most of us don't report or point fingers at our brethen for doing any of them (at least I don't, but I'm guilty of a few of them - I can't drive 55) And I get that it's not a law of the land issue, but the same principal applies I think.
On another note - does anyone feel good about Kobe??? He actually paid (there's public proof) his accuser and people are praising his efforts. I wonder what's going to happen if he starts breaking Jordan/Robertson/Russell records. I personally am not fond of the dude. Doing harm to someone else I guess carries more weight than doing something to yourself.
Its not performance related (at least in regards to his basketball abilities ) Two different issues.
Alot of sports hereo's have personal issues outside of their sport. As long as those issues aren't drug related/roid/performance altering related, then it really is a non-issue in regards to their records etc.
Sweet fancy Moses, Rockadelic, what the fuck is the story with that picture? And is that the dude's thigh in the foreground? His gut? Am I correct in thinking it's a dude?
Sweet fancy Moses, Rockadelic, what the fuck is the story with that picture? And is that the dude's thigh in the foreground? His gut? Am I correct in thinking it's a dude?
Sweet fancy Moses, Rockadelic, what the fuck is the story with that picture? And is that the dude's thigh in the foreground? His gut? Am I correct in thinking it's a dude?
It's a dude and who knows what the hell that shit is???
Sweet fancy Moses, Rockadelic, what the fuck is the story with that picture? And is that the dude's thigh in the foreground? His gut? Am I correct in thinking it's a dude?
He's reported to be the worlds heaviest man. I think he weighs in around 1200 to 2000 lbs. That's his gut appartently.
and funny enough we're still waiting on this easily accessable mountain of proof that he used a substance that against baseball's rules. WHERE'S THE PDF?????
I think his puerile attempts to create a racial angle to this whole thing are fucking ridiculous and a pretty sad thing for a grown man to be doing.
No one else is being villified because no one else is this close to breaking the record
On another note - does anyone feel good about Kobe??? He actually paid (there's public proof) his accuser and people are praising his efforts. I personally am not fond of the dude.
Comments
And again, my sole issue is that it seems that Baseball is getting off easy in comparision to what he's having to go thru when he's playing under their confines. Show me the tape on UTube of him shooting up and I'll shut up. Where's Jeff Kent saying "I saw him take shit"? Didn't Peter Conte say whenhe got out of jail that Bonds didn't take any human growth hormones we produced??? It'll be interesting to see what happens when Anderson finally talks, but until he says "I gave him this that & the third and we got over on the tests this way" Until then, it's all speculation and shouldn't be entered in factual conversations.
He passed, he gonna break Ruth's record. Ban him if he's found guilty but until then take your panties off and prove you're a better pithcer than he is a hitter and beat him between the lines.
nope, because Griffey didn't use 'roids.
The REAL question in all this mess is how did Bonds not get included to even be questioned in the Government hearings when players like Curt Schilling, Jason Giambi, Rafael Palmeiro and Mark McGwire did??
Pete Rose always said he never bet on baseball. For 15 years he said never gambled on baseball...Oh no! Oh horror! Baseball was able to ban him FOR LIFE without 1) an admission or 2) him failing a test. Grrrr....
Do you see the parallels here? Do you see what I'm driving at?
Also, as to your point that baseball is getting off in all of this...1) In the courst of public opinion, they aren't. 2) It is always harder to punish an institution than a player; sad, but true. 3) I agree that Bud Selig will not go down in history as the greatest commisioner; and people will probably judge Don Fehr harshly on this. But, what they did was at WORST turn the other cheek. Which, admittedly, is Not a Good Look, but it is not the same crime as BREAKING THE LAW. Don't get that twisted.
This is one thing I can't Chillax about...I know I'm a hard-liner about this shit, but that isn't changing, so whatevs. I'm fine with that, and I sleep great at night.
But, on to more pertinant things. The investigation that found Rose guilty was based not on confessions or failed tests, but tons of evidence. Which is what we have on Bonds, and frankly, coupled with the intuitive evidence of 1) his unprecented power explosion at the age of 40 and 2) the exponential physical growth of his fucking melon, that is MORE than enough to judge him.
I'm not saying there are players saying that they saw him use it; given the fear of Jim Bouton syndrome, I'd expect nobody would say anything if they DID see anything (Don't Snitch, yo...). And yes, innocent until proven guilty is nice, but baseball is different than the constitution. Remember- The Black Sox were found not guilty in court. Though, that didn't make a lick of difference in the court of baseball.
I thought Rafael Palmeiro was the perfect scapegoat.
Ended his career and lost his Viagra gig.
First time I saw Raffy hawking the erection pills I thought....ROIDS!!
Hammerin' Hank was a boyhood hero and politics aside, I think it would be a shame if his record is broken by ANYONE who doesn't play by the rules.
I don't think accepting a tainted record for a funny photo-op is worth it. But, that's just me.
I'm not saying its right that baseball looked the other way; BUT, to a LARGE extent, their hands were tied by the union. Remember, baseball and the union are NOT in the same bed here- Fehr fought baseball on testing after baseball tried to institute stricter rules. And, the only reason we got the stricter testing last season was because over a certain percentage (I believe it was 7%) tested positive the year before WHEN THEY KNEW before hand that they would be tested. Think about that- the Player's Union is arguing that there wasn't a problem with steroids. And testing was set up so that player's KNEW when they would be tested. And players STILL failed the test at a high enough rate that they were then obligated to enact the stricter plan. Please, go on- tell me this was the league's fault.
Like I said: the players, their union, and the league all share in the blame, and I'd love to see all of them hang for their actions (McGwire/Sosa/Palm/Bonds/Giambi/et al; Fehr; Selig- across the board). But, the players and the union fought testing and legality to the end, and they should be punished accordingly. Hence, I cut them the least slack.
Google "1991 MLB Steroid Memo". You will get numerous links to the 1991 memo I referenced on the previous page where MLB outlined that steroids were illegal.
I have no problem debating some of the grayer areas on this issue; but this point that keeps coming up is wrong, and people need to stop saying that shit.
they were against the law weren't they?
Oh. And that too.
The weird thing with this whole issue is how all of a sudden it has become such a big deal by the media. The media knew what was happening years ago but ignored it. Now it's such a big issue. I remember one reporter said that Lenny Dykstra was taking special "vitamins" and laughing about it.
Well, Dr. Conti's prescriptions to Bonds for steroids, HGH, and cattle additives have yet to be publicized. So, I'm still going to hold him accountable.
And (for the millionth time) while MLB and specifically Selig should be punished/lose his job, at the time the MLB Union was among the strongest in the country. They had zero leverage; so little that they set up the cream puff testing I outlined above, and the players still managed to fail it.
And I stand by my conviction that it ceases to be a witch hunt when mountains of evidence that are deemed admissable in a federal case ALL point to one conclusion. See, a witch hunt involves wildly casting accusations towards players- saying things like, "I think Johnny Damon took steroids!" as happened last season. It is NOT a witch hunt when you have detailed documents outlining dosage schedules, evidence of Victor Conti and Greg Anderson driving from Balco to the Giants locker room, players such as Gary Sheffield saying the Bonds helped set him up with his trainer and training regimin which included taking steroids, an ex-lover saying that Bonds paid her off under the table so she wouldn't go public with her information on his steroid use...etc, etc, etc for hundreds of pages.
Yeah, dude. Not a witch hunt.
I need proof batches!!!
And before I get crap for this being gross and disgusting, this photo was in every newspaper in the country today.
If this is the truth why does there need to be an "investigation?" Slick Vic says he never gave Bonds steroids that were against MLB's policy as he exited prison (a laugh riot if there ever was one). But if the details are in that book, why not have them reporters just hand the shit over and my point of "if the league doesn't do anything it's not an issue" will disappear. All this third party he-said, she said isn't evidence - a cum-stained dress is.
And to Prime - it being illegal is like pointing out smoking/selling pot, driving 2 miles over the speed limit, writing collectros off on your taxes, not reporting profit from selling records etc. are against the law - are we gonna villify people do doing any of these things???? Getting caught seems to be the issue on some of those other things, why not this one? And I'm pretty sure most of us don't report or point fingers at our brethen for doing any of them (at least I don't, but I'm guilty of a few of them - I can't drive 55) And I get that it's not a law of the land issue, but the same principal applies I think.
On another note - does anyone feel good about Kobe??? He actually paid (there's public proof) his accuser and people are praising his efforts. I wonder what's going to happen if he starts breaking Jordan/Robertson/Russell records. I personally am not fond of the dude. Doing harm to someone else I guess carries more weight than doing something to yourself.
Alot of sports hereo's have personal issues outside of their sport. As long as those issues aren't drug related/roid/performance altering related, then it really is a non-issue in regards to their records etc.
It's a dude and who knows what the hell that shit is???
Takin that shit to jennycraig.com
He's reported to be the worlds heaviest man. I think he weighs in around 1200 to 2000 lbs. That's his gut appartently.