I think they clear alot of their stuff; I know that they don't look kindly to people sampling their material without clearance. PBW's mom had a record & I believe there were some issues when a board member wanted to sample that for the breakbeatraer comp.
Are you trying to tell me everything on that comp was cleared?
I find that difficult to believe...
I doubt it, but I think there was a song that wasn't going to be included because of ST's rep for going after people who sample their music.
rumor has it that ST liked the track and didn't ask for anything.
That is very cool of them. Propers to the stones throw people.
And do you not think that artists who get their shit sampled don't have the right to actually, you know, earn off that?
*gasp*
We are confronted with two opposing hustles and must determine which one to knock! The input of an expert such as Reynaldo is required.
It's all relative. If it's Monty being sampled, people will rise up and defend his right to earn. Some Canadian metric album? The attitude = fuck 'em.
Pretty much. I would add only that whether or not people like the artist doing the sampling has a lot to do with it. If it's Black Eyed Peas? Sic the lawyers on 'em.
that's part of it. but I would venture that the depth of the sampling artists pockets also plays into people's caluculation. I know it does for me.
and I don't think that's totally wrong. do you? not starting shit; really curious.
And do you not think that artists who get their shit sampled don't have the right to actually, you know, earn off that?
I'm curious... Is there another flip side to this? Should the artist that takes something old and blows it up get anything? Say at the very least, credit on any pressing after the fact?
And do you not think that artists who get their shit sampled don't have the right to actually, you know, earn off that?
*gasp*
We are confronted with two opposing hustles and must determine which one to knock! The input of an expert such as Reynaldo is required.
It's all relative. If it's Monty being sampled, people will rise up and defend his right to earn. Some Canadian metric album? The attitude = fuck 'em.
Pretty much. I would add only that whether or not people like the artist doing the sampling has a lot to do with it. If it's Black Eyed Peas? Sic the lawyers on 'em.
that's part of it. but I would venture that the depth of the sampling artists pockets also plays into people's caluculation. I know it does for me.
and I don't think that's totally wrong. do you? not starting shit; really curious.
In moral terms? No, I don't think it's an inappropriate consideration.
In terms of coming up with any kind of a workable legal framework for whether or not sampled artists should be compensated? Yes, I do.
And do you not think that artists who get their shit sampled don't have the right to actually, you know, earn off that?
*gasp*
We are confronted with two opposing hustles and must determine which one to knock! The input of an expert such as Reynaldo is required.
It's all relative. If it's Monty being sampled, people will rise up and defend his right to earn. Some Canadian metric album? The attitude = fuck 'em.
Pretty much. I would add only that whether or not people like the artist doing the sampling has a lot to do with it. If it's Black Eyed Peas? Sic the lawyers on 'em.
that's part of it. but I would venture that the depth of the sampling artists pockets also plays into people's caluculation. I know it does for me.
and I don't think that's totally wrong. do you? not starting shit; really curious.
In moral terms? No, I don't think it's an inappropriate consideration.
In terms of coming up with any kind of a workable legal framework for whether or not sampled artists should be compensated? Yes, I do.
agreed.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
It's obviously the journalist's job to publicly sort all of these sampling considerations out between artists and legal teams. That's a given.
And do you not think that artists who get their shit sampled don't have the right to actually, you know, earn off that?
*gasp*
We are confronted with two opposing hustles and must determine which one to knock! The input of an expert such as Reynaldo is required.
It's all relative. If it's Monty being sampled, people will rise up and defend his right to earn. Some Canadian metric album? The attitude = fuck 'em.
Pretty much. I would add only that whether or not people like the artist doing the sampling has a lot to do with it. If it's Black Eyed Peas? Sic the lawyers on 'em.
that's part of it. but I would venture that the depth of the sampling artists pockets also plays into people's caluculation. I know it does for me.
and I don't think that's totally wrong. do you? not starting shit; really curious.
In moral terms? No, I don't think it's an inappropriate consideration.
In terms of coming up with any kind of a workable legal framework for whether or not sampled artists should be compensated? Yes, I do.
agreed.
Just to be clear: I think the amount of money an artist has made off a recording that relies on sampled material should factor into determining the amount of compensation due, but I don't think it has any relevance to the threshold question of whether or not compensation is due at all.
I think they clear alot of their stuff; I know that they don't look kindly to people sampling their material without clearance. PBW's mom had a record & I believe there were some issues when a board member wanted to sample that for the breakbeatraer comp.
Are you trying to tell me everything on that comp was cleared?
I find that difficult to believe...
I doubt it, but I think there was a song that wasn't going to be included because of ST's rep for going after people who sample their music.
can someone give some more info on this?... i'd never heard of this case... didn't know PBW's mom had ever released anything... and i think it's a bit weak for stones throw to accuse someone of using an uncleared sample when it's what they do for a living... they don't clear ANYTHING [unless it's a collaboration project, like with galt mcdermot or sumthin]... and that daedelus sample clearance in the madvillainy liner notes was actually just an inside joke.
You know what dudes... I'm just really feeling the web-work. Clicking on the play button and having the animated, smooth expansion and being able to skip ahead in the song.
can someone give some more info on this?... i'd never heard of this case... didn't know PBW's mom had ever released anything... and i think it's a bit weak for stones throw to accuse someone of using an uncleared sample when it's what they do for a living... they don't clear ANYTHING [unless it's a collaboration project, like with galt mcdermot or sumthin]... and that daedelus sample clearance in the madvillainy liner notes was actually just an inside joke.
let's just say that something was used on this comp that was used/owned by ST before and it got semicleared and everyone is cool with that...I think everyone involved in samplebased music should know how to behave...unfortunately some don't and that is not a good look...ST are mad cool though...
"this guy" is Elliot Wilson. Aka Editor in Chief of XXL Magazine. Not some random blogger who's only reading off a liner notes list.
I was fully aware that Elliot Wilson wrote that piece and I am also of his current occupation, thanks for stating the obvious.
Secondly I personally felt it was wrong for mr. Wilson to post up the uncleared samples
Why? He didn't name anything though he did post the two songs in question. I'm not understanding your objection, especially if you don't care if he posted what had been cleared.
And do you not think that artists who get their shit sampled don't have the right to actually, you know, earn off that?
Please to refer your self-righteous self to the Monty Starks/Black Eyed Peas thread (provided, Ghost does not have Will's pockets).
Also, Moss seems to indicate that the track he did for the album was, in fact, cleared.
It's funny how you omitted my comment "...I am not trying to take away the responsibility of the artist to clear their samples (i believe that the original artists should be acknowledged and rightfully compensated)... " then make some wack comment of me being some "self-righteous self." Next time read the entire post before you comment. And yes I am glad Monty was rightful compensated.
Secondly I seem to recall your piece in the Jan/Feb Scratch were you talk about Lil Kim's Queen Bitch, let me refresh your memory:
This song isn't credited in the liner notes, though it's obviously something that Carlos Broady and Nashiem Myrick sampled on behalf of Lil' Kim, who's killing em softly on this song like Roberta. However, we don't want to attract flack by blowing up anyone's spots, since hey, that's no way to act.
It seems to me you felt the need not to mention the lifted R*y Ch*rl*s song as to not "blowing up anyone's spots." I felt that Mr. Wilson should have taken the same consideration and not included the audio of two tracks he presented as not being cleared. Having the audio is one step closer to undercovering the sample source and makes it easier for the sample police to guage yet another Hip hop artist. I do believe sample rates need to standardize for all recording artist so that is it equitable for the sampler and samplee.
can someone give some more info on this?... i'd never heard of this case... didn't know PBW's mom had ever released anything... and i think it's a bit weak for stones throw to accuse someone of using an uncleared sample when it's what they do for a living... they don't clear ANYTHING [unless it's a collaboration project, like with galt mcdermot or sumthin]... and that daedelus sample clearance in the madvillainy liner notes was actually just an inside joke.
let's just say that something was used on this comp that was used/owned by ST before and it got semicleared and everyone is cool with that...I think everyone involved in samplebased music should know how to behave...unfortunately some don't and that is not a good look...ST are mad cool though...
i know ST are usually cool.. and i dig a lotta their stuff... but i was just hoping to get some more info on this... maybe a link to an old thread?
Ok, I didn't read your original post enough so apologies on that remark. As to the original beef though:
Here's the thing: posting the audio file is not the same as naming the song itself. You're getting into some hairsplitting distinctions. The fact that the samples were not cleared in the liner notes is why they are not listed in elliot's post but beyond that, I don't think it's "irresponsible".
I mean, "kilos" was put up on a lot of blogs and message boards. The sample is so clearand obvious that if the original rights holder heard it, it's not like there'd be any confusion over the matter. Itd be different if the loop was on some half-a-bar Vic Juris tip but to me, posting an obscure song source that is used obviously as a sample hardly is "one step" closer.
This is Def Jam. They should have cleared that shit anyways.
Uh,
"this guy" is Elliot Wilson. Aka Editor in Chief of XXL Magazine. Not some random blogger who's only reading off a liner notes list.
I was fully aware that Elliot Wilson wrote that piece and I am also of his current occupation, thanks for stating the obvious.
Secondly I personally felt it was wrong for mr. Wilson to post up the uncleared samples
Why? He didn't name anything though he did post the two songs in question. I'm not understanding your objection, especially if you don't care if he posted what had been cleared.
And do you not think that artists who get their shit sampled don't have the right to actually, you know, earn off that?
Please to refer your self-righteous self to the Monty Starks/Black Eyed Peas thread (provided, Ghost does not have Will's pockets).
Also, Moss seems to indicate that the track he did for the album was, in fact, cleared.
It's funny how you omitted my comment "...I am not trying to take away the responsibility of the artist to clear their samples (i believe that the original artists should be acknowledged and rightfully compensated)... " then make some wack comment of me being some "self-righteous self." Next time read the entire post before you comment. And yes I am glad Monty was rightful compensated.
Secondly I seem to recall your piece in the Jan/Feb Scratch were you talk about Lil Kim's Queen Bitch, let me refresh your memory:
This song isn't credited in the liner notes, though it's obviously something that Carlos Broady and Nashiem Myrick sampled on behalf of Lil' Kim, who's killing em softly on this song like Roberta. However, we don't want to attract flack by blowing up anyone's spots, since hey, that's no way to act.
It seems to me you felt the need not to mention the lifted R*y Ch*rl*s song as to not "blowing up anyone's spots." I felt that Mr. Wilson should have taken the same consideration and not included the audio of two tracks he presented as not being cleared. Having the audio is one step closer to undercovering the sample source and makes it easier for the sample police to guage yet another Hip hop artist. I do believe sample rates need to standardize for all recording artist so that is it equitable for the sampler and samplee.
You know what dudes... I'm just really feeling the web-work. Clicking on the play button and having the animated, smooth expansion and being able to skip ahead in the song.
serious cosine.. the feature itself is f*ckin right on.
funny thread...should be in the real headz section tho'...cant be discussed publicly. Wilson is an azz for doin such a job, but who knows, it may be a fat joe/ 50 cent beef (as in "organized" beef). I cant believe he would snitch without him asking about it first...and since he didnt spot the samples himself, he probably had the agreement to spit it out. Coz if he does that shit to me, i sware i wait for him nite and day in front of his house until i catch him...CANT KNOCK THE HUSTLE.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
I have also heard that sometimes a sampling artist will pay more to not have the sample listed in their liner notes. Has anyone else heard of that???
I haven't. Full credits are usually a pre-requisite of approval in the first place. Conversely, I do know (and I might have mentioned once before) that one of the conditions of clearing a Beastie Boys sample is that they're not[/b] credited as co-writers and the sample isn't listed anywhere on the sleeve/booklet. They do, of course, take the money.
And to add up to what you said, let it be known that MOST of the time, you can get a 50/50 type of deal if you're not too greedy and if you know how to present the deal. Publishers dont give a shit about hip-hop or whatsoever. But they do care if there's "master use" or not, for example...and a good way to get back some percentage is to play with this "master use" factor. Ask Dre why he can remain rich...If he had to give away 100% all the time, he wouldn't stack mucho pesos. But his musicians saved his life. "Master use" is a bitch, remember that...Or sign on Babygrande and you won't have to declare shit (private joke)
Comments
That is very cool of them. Propers to the stones throw people.
that's part of it. but I would venture that the depth of the sampling artists pockets also plays into people's caluculation. I know it does for me.
and I don't think that's totally wrong. do you? not starting shit; really curious.
I'm curious... Is there another flip side to this? Should the artist that takes something old and blows it up get anything? Say at the very least, credit on any pressing after the fact?
They even edited samples out of this album that weren't cleared, come on...
In moral terms? No, I don't think it's an inappropriate consideration.
In terms of coming up with any kind of a workable legal framework for whether or not sampled artists should be compensated? Yes, I do.
Boy Meets Girl various artists 2LP. Not a comp--it's a theme album that contains original material.
You can also get it on 45.
agreed.
Just to be clear: I think the amount of money an artist has made off a recording that relies on sampled material should factor into determining the amount of compensation due, but I don't think it has any relevance to the threshold question of whether or not compensation is due at all.
can someone give some more info on this?... i'd never heard of this case... didn't know PBW's mom had ever released anything... and i think it's a bit weak for stones throw to accuse someone of using an uncleared sample when it's what they do for a living... they don't clear ANYTHING [unless it's a collaboration project, like with galt mcdermot or sumthin]... and that daedelus sample clearance in the madvillainy liner notes was actually just an inside joke.
let's just say that something was used on this comp that was used/owned by ST before and it got semicleared and everyone is cool with that...I think everyone involved in samplebased music should know how to behave...unfortunately some don't and that is not a good look...ST are mad cool though...
Thanks Faux. Was it on Stax?
Yep (excuse the other pics)...
It's funny how you omitted my comment "...I am not trying to take away the responsibility of the artist to clear their samples (i believe that the original artists should be acknowledged and rightfully compensated)... " then make some wack comment of me being some "self-righteous self." Next time read the entire post before you comment. And yes I am glad Monty was rightful compensated.
Secondly I seem to recall your piece in the Jan/Feb Scratch were you talk about Lil Kim's Queen Bitch, let me refresh your memory:
This song isn't credited in the liner notes, though it's obviously something that Carlos Broady and Nashiem Myrick sampled on behalf of Lil' Kim, who's killing em softly on this song like Roberta. However, we don't want to attract flack by blowing up anyone's spots, since hey, that's no way to act.
It seems to me you felt the need not to mention the lifted R*y Ch*rl*s song as to not "blowing up anyone's spots." I felt that Mr. Wilson should have taken the same consideration and not included the audio of two tracks he presented as not being cleared. Having the audio is one step closer to undercovering the sample source and makes it easier for the sample police to guage yet another Hip hop artist. I do believe sample rates need to standardize for all recording artist so that is it equitable for the sampler and samplee.
Yeah--under-rated record; bet you can pull it for about $8.
i know ST are usually cool.. and i dig a lotta their stuff... but i was just hoping to get some more info on this... maybe a link to an old thread?
Here's the thing: posting the audio file is not the same as naming the song itself. You're getting into some hairsplitting distinctions. The fact that the samples were not cleared in the liner notes is why they are not listed in elliot's post but beyond that, I don't think it's "irresponsible".
I mean, "kilos" was put up on a lot of blogs and message boards. The sample is so clearand obvious that if the original rights holder heard it, it's not like there'd be any confusion over the matter. Itd be different if the loop was on some half-a-bar Vic Juris tip but to me, posting an obscure song source that is used obviously as a sample hardly is "one step" closer.
This is Def Jam. They should have cleared that shit anyways.
serious cosine.. the feature itself is f*ckin right on.
ps. o-dub is that dude
I haven't. Full credits are usually a pre-requisite of approval in the first place. Conversely, I do know (and I might have mentioned once before) that one of the conditions of clearing a Beastie Boys sample is that they're not[/b] credited as co-writers and the sample isn't listed anywhere on the sleeve/booklet. They do, of course, take the money.
And to add up to what you said, let it be known that MOST of the time, you can get a 50/50 type of deal if you're not too greedy and if you know how to present the deal. Publishers dont give a shit about hip-hop or whatsoever. But they do care if there's "master use" or not, for example...and a good way to get back some percentage is to play with this "master use" factor. Ask Dre why he can remain rich...If he had to give away 100% all the time, he wouldn't stack mucho pesos. But his musicians saved his life. "Master use" is a bitch, remember that...Or sign on Babygrande and you won't have to declare shit
Welcome back!
Please post more often!
Still cant believe Wilson is a snitch...lol.