In 1986/1987, my favorite albums of the year were by
Dag Nasty EPMD Eric B & Rakim Slayer Public Enemy Anthrax Suicidal Tendencies BDP Seven Seconds etc...
...and pretty much everyone I knew felt this way - I guess among my crew we were punks "first" but hip hop & metal were just as popular with most people I hung out with.
..and to close out the thread (or maybe keep it going???), 2006 hiphop/rap is the day's punkrock. meaning look at hiphop/rap dudes living in the now (creating new "fashions", scary ass gold teeth!) and todays "punk rockers" - 12 year-olds that wear a fauxhawk to the mall, or worse, new punk bands regurgitating (badly) late 80s exploited/GBH riffs. punks not dead, it's just on sale at Wal-Mart...
personally, I think from what little I remember about both scenes and reading detailed accounts in books like "Yes Yes..." and "Last Night A DJ Saved My Life", rap even then was the "punk rock" of the bronx (to young puerto rican/african americans), and one of the big reasons punk/rap seemed to go hand-in-hand for a moment, both scenes were of DIY aesthetic, and although "punk" was already mainstream by now (79/80?), there was no "hip hop culture" yet. I mean it was still an anomally to the kids of both scenes, and because a couple of the big hiphop names were interested in punk as well (bambaata, fab5) and vice-versa (chris stein, blondie, mudd club), there was that brief "cross-over" for a few kool songs thankfully. (see "play that beat" globe & wiz kid, the already mentioned johnny rotten/bam "time zone", etc.)
my 12 cents
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
There were definitely connections between punk and rap, but if anything history has overstated them in favor of portraying rap as punk's little brother. I say let them exist independently on their own merits.
..and to close out the thread (or maybe keep it going???), 2006 hiphop/rap is the day's punkrock. meaning look at hiphop/rap dudes living in the now (creating new "fashions", scary ass gold teeth!) and todays "punk rockers" - 12 year-olds that wear a fauxhawk to the mall, or worse, new punk bands regurgitating (badly) late 80s exploited/GBH riffs. punks not dead, it's just on sale at Wal-Mart...
personally, I think from what little I remember about both scenes and reading detailed accounts in books like "Yes Yes..." and "Last Night A DJ Saved My Life", rap even then was the "punk rock" of the bronx (to young puerto rican/african americans), and one of the big reasons punk/rap seemed to go hand-in-hand for a moment, both scenes were of DIY aesthetic, and although "punk" was already mainstream by now (79/80?), there was no "hip hop culture" yet. I mean it was still an anomally to the kids of both scenes, and because a couple of the big hiphop names were interested in punk as well (bambaata, fab5) and vice-versa (chris stein, blondie, mudd club), there was that brief "cross-over" for a few kool songs thankfully. (see "play that beat" globe & wiz kid, the already mentioned johnny rotten/bam "time zone", etc.)
my 12 cents
Great 12 cents...
Question. Is it just me, or does it seem like things in that moment of time, in that particular area, was way more open to things (music, clothes, culture, etc)? Compared to even now? 20 something odd years later...
..and to close out the thread (or maybe keep it going???), 2006 hiphop/rap is the day's punkrock. meaning look at hiphop/rap dudes living in the now (creating new "fashions", scary ass gold teeth!) and todays "punk rockers" - 12 year-olds that wear a fauxhawk to the mall, or worse, new punk bands regurgitating (badly) late 80s exploited/GBH riffs. punks not dead, it's just on sale at Wal-Mart...
personally, I think from what little I remember about both scenes and reading detailed accounts in books like "Yes Yes..." and "Last Night A DJ Saved My Life", rap even then was the "punk rock" of the bronx (to young puerto rican/african americans), and one of the big reasons punk/rap seemed to go hand-in-hand for a moment, both scenes were of DIY aesthetic, and although "punk" was already mainstream by now (79/80?), there was no "hip hop culture" yet. I mean it was still an anomally to the kids of both scenes, and because a couple of the big hiphop names were interested in punk as well (bambaata, fab5) and vice-versa (chris stein, blondie, mudd club), there was that brief "cross-over" for a few kool songs thankfully. (see "play that beat" globe & wiz kid, the already mentioned johnny rotten/bam "time zone", etc.)
my 12 cents
Great 12 cents...
Question. Is it just me, or does it seem like things in that moment of time, in that particular area, was way more open to things (music, clothes, culture, etc)? Compared to even now? 20 something odd years later...
just certain crowds.if you went to the roxy you were open to different styles.not everybody went.flash himself said he and alot of his crowd didn't like going to bambaataa's partys because he played 'crazy music'.
..and to close out the thread (or maybe keep it going???), 2006 hiphop/rap is the day's punkrock. meaning look at hiphop/rap dudes living in the now (creating new "fashions", scary ass gold teeth!) and todays "punk rockers" - 12 year-olds that wear a fauxhawk to the mall, or worse, new punk bands regurgitating (badly) late 80s exploited/GBH riffs. punks not dead, it's just on sale at Wal-Mart...
personally, I think from what little I remember about both scenes and reading detailed accounts in books like "Yes Yes..." and "Last Night A DJ Saved My Life", rap even then was the "punk rock" of the bronx (to young puerto rican/african americans), and one of the big reasons punk/rap seemed to go hand-in-hand for a moment, both scenes were of DIY aesthetic, and although "punk" was already mainstream by now (79/80?), there was no "hip hop culture" yet. I mean it was still an anomally to the kids of both scenes, and because a couple of the big hiphop names were interested in punk as well (bambaata, fab5) and vice-versa (chris stein, blondie, mudd club), there was that brief "cross-over" for a few kool songs thankfully. (see "play that beat" globe & wiz kid, the already mentioned johnny rotten/bam "time zone", etc.)
my 12 cents
Great 12 cents...
Question. Is it just me, or does it seem like things in that moment of time, in that particular area, was way more open to things (music, clothes, culture, etc)? Compared to even now? 20 something odd years later...
just certain crowds.if you went to the roxy you were open to different styles.not everybody went.flash himself said he and alot of his crowd didn't like going to bambaataa's partys because he played 'crazy music'.
Where are those places now tho? It seems to me anyways, that no matter where you go (For clubs and such), if you take a look around, everyone is conformed into a certain package. And they hardly ever mix into eachother.
Don't forget that Fab 5 teamed up with these guys in Germany
to record a cover of one of their most famous songs "eisgek??hlter bommerlunder" where you can catch him rappin' in German...but yeah, probably just another example of one of those early blends like that clash/futura thing...imo both scenes had the same aesthetics and both scenes are now just a blinging image of themselves (think Green Day 50 Cent)..but what about if you listen to stuff like that dj scratch track of T.D.S Mob, that almost sounds like punk to me. I was just thinking about this last weekend with a friend and we came to the conclusion that some of this 80's hardcore hiphop stuff is only playable at punk parties nowadays almost...hell, kids think 2pac is old school....back in the days it was different, just bring back negril and roxy and sport that leather again, ha....
There was a degree of DC-area gogo/hardcore crossover back then too. Trouble Funk playing shows with Minor Threat and whatnot.
True. My friend Tim Kerr was in the Big Boys and he has a show bill for a DC gig circa 1982:
Big Boys Minor Threat Trouble Funk
He said that he really wishes he had the misprint that says "Minor Treat."
There was actually a hardcore band here in Auckland in the early 90s called Minor Treat.
In all actuality, I think both genres/movements evolved from a similar ethic but have both moved far away from what common ground/audiences they once shared. In saying that though, I come from a total punk/hardcore/skateboarding background and got into hip hop much later on than when I started listening to hardcore. Today though, lots of my hardcore friends listen to tons of great hip hop from the late 70s through to the present. But the number of hip hop heads listening to hardcore is something I don't really know because I don't think I know any? I heard that DJ Sir-Vere (prob the most famous NZ hip hop mixtape DJ) is a bit of a punk head but I think he is from an older generation of Hip Hoppers. Thoughts?
I think it really varied from region to region back in the days before MTV was playing hip-hop. Punks in NY absorbed hip-hop just thru osmosis, and I'm not talking the aboutDebbie Harry/Fab Five crew. Most of the kids I knew at the CB's matinees back in the glory days of NYHC loved all the early Def Jam stuff, Eric B & Rakim, BDP and so on. Look how many of those HC records have graff on the covers and flyers too. It was just a part of being in the city at the time. Same thing with DC and the Go-Go crossover.
In other more segregated parts of the country you find a lot less punks who were open to hip-hop and stuff like that, probably because it wasn't on the radio and they weren't exposed to black culture unless they sought it out. When I went to places like Minneapolis or Seattle in the late 80's I was genuinely surprised how close-minded the punks were musically.
Question. Is it just me, or does it seem like things in that moment of time, in that particular area, was way more open to things (music, clothes, culture, etc)? Compared to even now? 20 something odd years later...
totally. it was 80s NYC - i mean could you imagine stuff like completely bombed subway cars today??? obviously that time gets completely romanticized now ('cuz i'm sure williamsburg was NOT the place for latchkey rich kids circa '81...)
it was just pefect chaos with different scenes, differnt types of people, and it was NEW. punk was still interesting (the RAMONES weren't even close to being in TV commercials, but when did RNR High School come out???). as for hiphop, it wasnt global, it wasnt videos, it was still considered a FAD, who knew what would happen? i agree, i think that moment in time was sort of a diamond. you cant force cross-over to happen (remember that album in the early 90's where they tried to pair-up indie bands with hiphop groups? something like del & dinosaur jr., de la and someone else...) tho i still like chuck d's "yeah, tell 'em how it is..." cameo on kool thing.
Comments
I'm reminded of this hideous career move. (That's Dee Dee Ramone in his "Dee Dee King" rapper persona.
Solid.. I was just listenning to a instrumental version of Fresh, Wild, Fly & Bold!
Dag Nasty
EPMD
Eric B & Rakim
Slayer
Public Enemy
Anthrax
Suicidal Tendencies
BDP
Seven Seconds
etc...
...and pretty much everyone I knew felt this
way - I guess among my crew we were punks "first"
but hip hop & metal were just as popular with most
people I hung out with.
personally, I think from what little I remember about both scenes and reading detailed accounts in books like "Yes Yes..." and "Last Night A DJ Saved My Life", rap even then was the "punk rock" of the bronx (to young puerto rican/african americans), and one of the big reasons punk/rap seemed to go hand-in-hand for a moment, both scenes were of DIY aesthetic, and although "punk" was already mainstream by now (79/80?), there was no "hip hop culture" yet. I mean it was still an anomally to the kids of both scenes, and because a couple of the big hiphop names were interested in punk as well (bambaata, fab5) and vice-versa (chris stein, blondie, mudd club), there was that brief "cross-over" for a few kool songs thankfully. (see "play that beat" globe & wiz kid, the already mentioned johnny rotten/bam "time zone", etc.)
my 12 cents
Great 12 cents...
Question. Is it just me, or does it seem like things in that moment of time, in that particular area, was way more open to things (music, clothes, culture, etc)? Compared to even now? 20 something odd years later...
Where are those places now tho? It seems to me anyways, that no matter where you go (For clubs and such), if you take a look around, everyone is conformed into a certain package. And they hardly ever mix into eachother.
Yep, they're both DEAD
j/k
to record a cover of one of their most famous songs "eisgek??hlter bommerlunder" where you can catch him rappin' in German...but yeah, probably just another example of one of those early blends like that clash/futura thing...imo both scenes had the same aesthetics and both scenes are now just a blinging image of themselves (think Green Day 50 Cent)..but what about if you listen to stuff like that dj scratch track of T.D.S Mob, that almost sounds like punk to me. I was just thinking about this last weekend with a friend and we came to the conclusion that some of this 80's hardcore hiphop stuff is only playable at punk parties nowadays almost...hell, kids think 2pac is old school....back in the days it was different, just bring back negril and roxy and sport that leather again, ha....
There was actually a hardcore band here in Auckland in the early 90s called Minor Treat.
In all actuality, I think both genres/movements evolved from a similar ethic but have both moved far away from what common ground/audiences they once shared. In saying that though, I come from a total punk/hardcore/skateboarding background and got into hip hop much later on than when I started listening to hardcore. Today though, lots of my hardcore friends listen to tons of great hip hop from the late 70s through to the present. But the number of hip hop heads listening to hardcore is something I don't really know because I don't think I know any? I heard that DJ Sir-Vere (prob the most famous NZ hip hop mixtape DJ) is a bit of a punk head but I think he is from an older generation of Hip Hoppers. Thoughts?
In other more segregated parts of the country you find a lot less punks who were open to hip-hop and stuff like that, probably because it wasn't on the radio and they weren't exposed to black culture unless they sought it out. When I went to places like Minneapolis or Seattle in the late 80's I was genuinely surprised how close-minded the punks were musically.
totally. it was 80s NYC - i mean could you imagine stuff like completely bombed subway cars today??? obviously that time gets completely romanticized now ('cuz i'm sure williamsburg was NOT the place for latchkey rich kids circa '81...)
it was just pefect chaos with different scenes, differnt types of people, and it was NEW. punk was still interesting (the RAMONES weren't even close to being in TV commercials, but when did RNR High School come out???). as for hiphop, it wasnt global, it wasnt videos, it was still considered a FAD, who knew what would happen? i agree, i think that moment in time was sort of a diamond. you cant force cross-over to happen (remember that album in the early 90's where they tried to pair-up indie bands with hiphop groups? something like del & dinosaur jr., de la and someone else...) tho i still like chuck d's "yeah, tell 'em how it is..." cameo on kool thing.