Rap & Punk....

DOR

Can we get some discussion up here?I've known dudes, that since the early 80's have been total punks. But have some crazy hip hop records or go into talks about the early dayz. Why do we never hear about these two and how in the beginning, they really were meshed?I think I've only ever heard Fab 5 Freddy & Stanley Crouch talk about this.Did the success of Blondie have anything to do with these two forms parting ways?Does hip hop have more in common with punk than most will ever give it credit?

Artifactor

Really. I guess being young I woulda never known.

Cosmo

Does hip hop have more in common with punk than most will ever give it credit?

Without a doubt.

Imperial_Mao

Does hip hop have more in common with punk than most will ever give it credit?

Without a doubt.

Got to agree, they both seem to spring from the same D.I.Y. ethic.

bassie

Does hip hop have more in common with punk than most will ever give it credit?

well the folks who came up in both (i did) will say so.

as far the exciting, dynamic, make the most with the least, take back the power sentiments go - definitely.

jdeez

we used to fuck up some skinheads on the reg.

sounds like boom bap to me.

Dubious

hmmm

in my experience most punks HATED hip hop (this was late 80's - mid 90's) with the exception of the beastie boys.

i even remember more than a few punks up in arms when all the rap kids were talking about hardcore this hardcore that.

p_gunn

I've known dudes, that since the early 80's have been total punks. But have some crazy hip hop records or go into talks about the early dayz. Why do we never hear about these two and how in the beginning, they really were meshed?

actually we hear about it a fair amount... from the Clash producing Futura 2000's 12" and recording songs like "radio clash" inspired from the rap artists they heard on WBLS, to Bamattaa recording with Johnny Rotten (and sampling Kraftwork, who were a big influence on all post-punk artists...). basically the downtown punk clubs like Mudd Club and a few others (they list a few others in "yes yes y'all") were the first clubs in Manhattan outside of Harlem to book hip hop artists...

soulmarcosa

I played in NC hardcore/alternative bands back around 86-87. All of us listened to hiphop to some degree. Every time I was in the Corrosion of Conformity van back in those days, drummer Reed Mullin would be totally blasting LL or RUN-DMC at full volume.

DOR

Really. I guess being young I woulda never known.

Not really.. Just think about what many old school crews were wearing back in the day.

For myself, I can barely remember those dayz. But I do remember a few of the first jams I went to, there being a few punks in attendance.

I was over at a friends house the other day, who's always been straight punk. But dude started pulling out some great records. Said he die before he ever sold any of his hip hop. He only collects 79-89 stuff mind you.

soulmarcosa

There was a degree of DC-area gogo/hardcore crossover back then too. Trouble Funk playing shows with Minor Threat and whatnot.

bassie

hmmm

in my experience most punks HATED hip hop (this was late 80's - mid 90's) with the exception of the beastie boys.

i even remember more than a few punks up in arms when all the rap kids were talking about hardcore this hardcore that.

almost totally opposite my experience - right down to thinking the Beastie Boys were fools.

to be clear though, of the folks i knew, it was the kids into hardcore that were into rap more than the kids who were into rap being into hardcore.

DOR

hmmm

in my experience most punks HATED hip hop (this was late 80's - mid 90's) with the exception of the beastie boys.

i even remember more than a few punks up in arms when all the rap kids were talking about hardcore this hardcore that.

This is why I bring up blondie... Somewhere around 83-84, punk & rap parted. With only the skaters in the mid 80's hanging around with the beastie boys & Run DMC, etc...

DOR

I've known dudes, that since the early 80's have been total punks. But have some crazy hip hop records or go into talks about the early dayz. Why do we never hear about these two and how in the beginning, they really were meshed?

actually we hear about it a fair amount... from the Clash producing Futura 2000's 12" and recording songs like "radio clash" inspired from the rap artists they heard on WBLS, to Bamattaa recording with Johnny Rotten (and sampling Kraftwork, who were a big influence on all post-punk artists...). basically the downtown punk clubs like Mudd Club and a few others (they list a few others in "yes yes y'all") were the first clubs in Manhattan outside of Harlem to book hip hop artists...

Yeah... OK.. I've heard some stuff from Bam also on the subject.

But I'm betting 99% of hip hop listeners think it's crazy talk... Rap & Punk???

bassie

hmmm

in my experience most punks HATED hip hop (this was late 80's - mid 90's) with the exception of the beastie boys.

i even remember more than a few punks up in arms when all the rap kids were talking about hardcore this hardcore that.

This is why I bring up blondie... Somewhere around 83-84, punk & rap parted. With only the skaters in the mid 80's hanging around with the beastie boys & Run DMC, etc...

maybe in the celeb world, but at parties and in cars and between bands and on college radio shows and listening to the box in the park while you smoked and drank they were pretty much happening alongside together.

Dubious

yeah both punk and rap changed RADICALLY in the mid 80's

with punk getting waaaay hardcore and rap ecoming more sample oriented.

the hardcore kids i came up around HATED anything old timey.. blondie were new wave shit, the clash a bunch of 50's tossers etc etc.. if it wasnt black flag, minor threat, bad brains chances are they werent havin it.

at the same time the only people who listened to Rap in my school were the jocks / pretty boys ...

DOR

hmmm

in my experience most punks HATED hip hop (this was late 80's - mid 90's) with the exception of the beastie boys.

i even remember more than a few punks up in arms when all the rap kids were talking about hardcore this hardcore that.

This is why I bring up blondie... Somewhere around 83-84, punk & rap parted. With only the skaters in the mid 80's hanging around with the beastie boys & Run DMC, etc...

maybe in the celeb world, but at parties and in cars and between bands and on college radio shows and listening to the box in the park while you smoked and drank they were pretty much happening alongside together.

Yeah, college radio... There's another topic...
But I get what ur sayin'

bassie

Did the success of Blondie have anything to do with these two forms parting ways?

i dunno about that...i'm not convinced they parted ways. but in the aspect in which you're talking about, i would say it had more to do with how each genre reacted to the Reagan years.

p_gunn

I've known dudes, that since the early 80's have been total punks. But have some crazy hip hop records or go into talks about the early dayz. Why do we never hear about these two and how in the beginning, they really were meshed?

actually we hear about it a fair amount... from the Clash producing Futura 2000's 12" and recording songs like "radio clash" inspired from the rap artists they heard on WBLS, to Bamattaa recording with Johnny Rotten (and sampling Kraftwork, who were a big influence on all post-punk artists...). basically the downtown punk clubs like Mudd Club and a few others (they list a few others in "yes yes y'all") were the first clubs in Manhattan outside of Harlem to book hip hop artists...

Yeah... OK.. I've heard some stuff from Bam also on the subject.

But I'm betting 99% of hip hop listeners think it's crazy talk... Rap & Punk???

and i'm sure 99% of latter day Sid and Exploioted disciples with studded jackets and mohawks think so too...

blame the general segregation of musical formats in this day and age... the early 70's was probably the peak period of pop crossover stuff, where on the radio you'd hear Stevie Wonder, the Temptations, and Curtis Mayfield on the pop AM station alongside everything from David Cassidy to the Stones.... ever since then with the tightening up of pop formats, there was been less and less crossover... and once hip hop left the place where it first blew up (the very multicutural and cosmopolitan NYC of the early 80's) to become a national movement (i.e. out of the clubs and into the stadiums), you're going to lose a lot of the natural crossover... (tho don't forget Public Enemy and Anthrax! a total NYC suburbs record... the crossover moves to Queens and Long Island...)

Jonny_Paycheck

Up until the mid 90s you could still see lots of outerborough/guido rockers and punks at a Run DMC or PE show.

DOR

Did the success of Blondie have anything to do with these two forms parting ways?

i dunno about that...i'm not convinced they parted ways. but in the aspect in which you're talking about, i would say it had more to do with how each genre reacted to the Reagan years.

But shouldn't that have brought them closer together?


Does anyone know what Vice President Bush called this in 1980? Anyone? Something-d-o-o economics. "Voodoo" economics.[/b]

DOR

I've known dudes, that since the early 80's have been total punks. But have some crazy hip hop records or go into talks about the early dayz. Why do we never hear about these two and how in the beginning, they really were meshed?

actually we hear about it a fair amount... from the Clash producing Futura 2000's 12" and recording songs like "radio clash" inspired from the rap artists they heard on WBLS, to Bamattaa recording with Johnny Rotten (and sampling Kraftwork, who were a big influence on all post-punk artists...). basically the downtown punk clubs like Mudd Club and a few others (they list a few others in "yes yes y'all") were the first clubs in Manhattan outside of Harlem to book hip hop artists...

Yeah... OK.. I've heard some stuff from Bam also on the subject.

But I'm betting 99% of hip hop listeners think it's crazy talk... Rap & Punk???

and i'm sure 99% of latter day Sid and Exploioted disciples with studded jackets and mohawks think so too...

blame the general segregation of musical formats in this day and age... the early 70's was probably the peak period of pop crossover stuff, where on the radio you'd hear Stevie Wonder, the Temptations, and Curtis Mayfield on the pop AM station alongside everything from David Cassidy to the Stones.... ever since then with the tightening up of pop formats, there was been less and less crossover... and once hip hop left the place where it first blew up (the very multicutural and cosmopolitan NYC of the early 80's) to become a national movement (i.e. out of the clubs and into the stadiums), you're going to lose a lot of the natural crossover... (tho don't forget Public Enemy and Anthrax! a total NYC suburbs record... the crossover moves to Queens and Long Island...)

Ahh great stuff...

Just dunno if any real punks would let the name Anthrax come outta their mouth. But ur points are very well heard.

Thx

bassie

Did the success of Blondie have anything to do with these two forms parting ways?

i dunno about that...i'm not convinced they parted ways. but in the aspect in which you're talking about, i would say it had more to do with how each genre reacted to the Reagan years.

But shouldn't that have brought them closer together?

i guess in an ideal world...how each genre reacted is a pretty huge race/class/music industry/entertainment world discussion.

DOR

Did the success of Blondie have anything to do with these two forms parting ways?

i dunno about that...i'm not convinced they parted ways. but in the aspect in which you're talking about, i would say it had more to do with how each genre reacted to the Reagan years.

But shouldn't that have brought them closer together?

i guess in an ideal world...how each genre reacted is a pretty huge race/class/music industry/entertainment world discussion.

I think ur swell...


Lets do lunch! Classes end here soon! Then I can take 2 hour lunches and come by and sit in ur chair and act a fool!

bassie

what the...?! are you in right thread?




















it's complicated math, but we will somehow make your 2hr lunch break fit into my 0hr lunch break.

DOR

we used to fuck up some skinheads on the reg.

sounds like boom bap to me.

DOR

it's complicated math, but we will somehow make your 2hr lunch break fit into my 0hr lunch break.

When do you leave btw?

hogginthefogg

There was a degree of DC-area gogo/hardcore crossover back then too. Trouble Funk playing shows with Minor Threat and whatnot.

True. My friend Tim Kerr was in the Big Boys and he has a show bill for a DC gig circa 1982:

Big Boys
Minor Threat
Trouble Funk


He said that he really wishes he had the misprint that says "Minor Treat."

bassie

it's complicated math, but we will somehow make your 2hr lunch break fit into my 0hr lunch break.

When do you leave btw?

you mean at the end of the day or to get food?

DOR

it's complicated math, but we will somehow make your 2hr lunch break fit into my 0hr lunch break.

When do you leave btw?

you mean at the end of the day or to get food?

No No.. ur trip I mean.. I know it's april.


Side note: Since u brought up college radio. I miss Dave's Dance Music charts...

bassie

April 16 - 23!

leave 6:30 am - get back midnight.