I think the main different b/t AOR and AOHH (for lack of a better term ) is that AOHH is still savvy enough (most times) to factor in radio singles and club songs but I'd still argue that there's a long tradition of rap artists thinking about and making rap albums that are meant to function as ALBUMS and not just a collection of hits with filler to take up the space in between (which was the pop model of the 1950s and 60s, up until, arguably, The Beatles).
It's not just sequencing - I think many of the so-called "classic" albums that our canon ascribes to are reflections of artists wanting to craft really good albums. Again, I think "The Low End Theory" and "Midnight Marauders" are premier examples based on a cohesive sound, careful sequencing and in the case of MM, the use of a recurring motif (the talkbot) to maintain a direction. Would anyone confuse it with a Foreigner or Boston album? No (and this would be a good thing). But I think there exists an AOHH style that isn't just for the Aceyalones of the world.
I would put "Lord Willin" on that list. I'd DEFINITELY put "The Fix" on there too. "Reasonable Doubt" ranks higher than "The Blueprint" but I think both are AOHH to a certain degree. "Ready to Die", definitely ("Life After Death" = not so much). I could keep on listing...
In fact, in some ways, AOHH is superior to AOR insofar as AOHH actually is savvy about minting great singles to go along with it.
Oliver
Nas, I have to disagree with you here - or maybe we're just talking about different things.
I don't advocative for hip-hop to try to straight up replicate AOR (Album Oriented Rock) and apply the same aesthetic ideals/traditions to hip-hop.
However, the idea that rap albums are "just a bunch of great party records" put together is hardly the case. You think "Low End Theory" was a bunch of 12"s? "Return of the Boom Bap"? "Straight Outta Compton?" I think since Run DMC came out, rap albums have taken the album format seriously though clearly, the 12" has still been the driving force.
Personally, I've spoken to quite a few rappers for whom sequencing is still a big deal. I don't think an album like "Whut" by Redman was randomly sequenced even if "Illmatic" was (and frankly, I really doubt that "New York State of Mind" just HAPPENED to be first on the CD just b/c it was recorded first.
Well the illmatic thing was an obviously extreme example. I do tend to think when anybody talks about the "art of making albums", it's probably leaning to the AOR tradition and less to things we take for granted in this day and age, like track sequencing. I obviously don't think tracklistings are just pulled out of a hat (unless you're talking about Common's I>One Day It'll All Make Sense/I>, which had the most arbitrary track order i've ever seen).
you know faux, the other day i heard a vicious rumor that you've been working diligently to fill the gaps in your extensive collection of project blowed affiliated 12"s.
i know, i know, im sure everybody else is "over" this by now...but im still being blown away by this thing. maybe its just hitting me in such a right spot, but i havent stopped listening to it yet. still in heavy rotation. still the first record ive truly loved in years.
of course, the more i listen, i really am wishing it were instrumental.
I'm digging these 2000+ releases, and know for a fact that they are better than Matchbox 20.
"Knowing" is relative; have you heard any of the output that wasn't on the radio? Rob Thomas is a corny songwriter, but damn if he didn't capture every emotion I was experiencing in my post-college angst.
Oh, and I forgot to mention RES. I abused the hell out of that album when it came out.
I listened to Da Real Thing again last weekend. I like maybe four songs on that album and can't listen to it straight through. I think my choice was better:
I like this one, too:
Get Your Mind Correct will probably be on my list in another year or two.
Its hard to narrow down the list to 10 but here it go.
Jay Z "Blueprint" Common "Like Water" Slum Village "Fantastik 1 & 2" Beanie Sigel "The Reason" 50 Cent "GROTD" Game "Documentary" Raphael Saddiq "Instant Vintage" Eastsidaz "Gang Bang Music" Jay Dee "Ruff Draft" Kanye West "College Dropout"
Dizzee Boy - In The Corner Andre 3000 - Love Below D'Angelo - Voodoo The Streets - Original Pirate Material The Avalanches - Since I Left You Nerd - In Search Of... !!! - Louden Up Now Eminem - Marshall Mathers LP Mars Volta - Deloused
But why is this a neccessary trait for a great album?
I didn't say it was necessary, for me it's personal preference. It can either be a cohesive work, or be simply 10 or more good songs that sound great together. I personally like it when someone goes beyond the non-existent boundaries. It shows me they are putting a bit more thought than just "ooh, let's start with a banger, and end with something that will keep fans coming back from more". It works, but I like to see a bit more noggin activity going on, other than "lyrical wit".
Merely a preference.
I also speak for "the art of the album" as a whole, not just hip-hop. Granted, the concept of the "album" was merely to package songs that used to be assembled as a series of 78's, and put them into a long player format. An "album" of 78's is what existed. The "art" of anything didn't happen until the late 60's, and in truth it's someone saying nothing more than "this is a well thought out project". It may be less about art in an art sense, but it's better than saying "I like the formula".
i know, i know, im sure everybody else is "over" this by now...but im still being blown away by this thing. maybe its just hitting me in such a right spot, but i havent stopped listening to it yet. still in heavy rotation. still the first record ive truly loved in years.
That good, huh? I just bought a copy through Sandbox yesterday, so I look forward to hearing this.
Comments
I think the main different b/t AOR and AOHH (for lack of a better term ) is that AOHH is still savvy enough (most times) to factor in radio singles and club songs but I'd still argue that there's a long tradition of rap artists thinking about and making rap albums that are meant to function as ALBUMS and not just a collection of hits with filler to take up the space in between (which was the pop model of the 1950s and 60s, up until, arguably, The Beatles).
It's not just sequencing - I think many of the so-called "classic" albums that our canon ascribes to are reflections of artists wanting to craft really good albums. Again, I think "The Low End Theory" and "Midnight Marauders" are premier examples based on a cohesive sound, careful sequencing and in the case of MM, the use of a recurring motif (the talkbot) to maintain a direction. Would anyone confuse it with a Foreigner or Boston album? No (and this would be a good thing). But I think there exists an AOHH style that isn't just for the Aceyalones of the world.
I would put "Lord Willin" on that list. I'd DEFINITELY put "The Fix" on there too. "Reasonable Doubt" ranks higher than "The Blueprint" but I think both are AOHH to a certain degree. "Ready to Die", definitely ("Life After Death" = not so much). I could keep on listing...
In fact, in some ways, AOHH is superior to AOR insofar as AOHH actually is savvy about minting great singles to go along with it.
Oliver
Man, I don't think even you like Abstract Rude...
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Paul Nice Remix version.
i could probably think of 5 every 5 or 10 minutes
heres 5 that are riding early trains of though
juana molina - tres cosas
ghostface - supreme clientele
microphones - the glow pt. 2
sach 5th avenue
daedelus - invention
what's this?
i know, i know, im sure everybody else is "over" this by now...but im still being blown away by this thing. maybe its just hitting me in such a right spot, but i havent stopped listening to it yet. still in heavy rotation. still the first record ive truly loved in years.
of course, the more i listen, i really am wishing it were instrumental.
That album is so fucking good it hurts. It's one of the few pieces of hip-hop wax I'd cough up a lot of dough for.
-e
"Knowing" is relative; have you heard any of the output that wasn't on the radio? Rob Thomas is a corny songwriter, but damn if he didn't capture every emotion I was experiencing in my post-college angst.
Oh, and I forgot to mention RES. I abused the hell out of that album when it came out.
(also, incredible cosign on "Just Tryin To Live" which is in my top 3 records of the last 5 years)
I feel like I'm forgetting a lot. Well, most of the rap LPs of the last five years have been posted.
Chicken Lips - Extended Play
Devendra Banhart - Rejoicing in The Hands
Metro Area - ST
D'angelo - Voodoo
Animal Collective - Sung Tongs
OutHud - S.T.R.E.E.T. D.A.D.
Phoenix - Alphabetical
N.E.R.D.'s In Search Of (original version)
blanking out ...
I listened to Da Real Thing again last weekend. I like maybe four songs on that album and can't listen to it straight through. I think my choice was better:
I like this one, too:
Get Your Mind Correct will probably be on my list in another year or two.
And, mysteriously, the only Outkast record which has remained out of print on wax for the past several years?!?!
I'd gladly sell my pricey original if they'd run a double vinyl pressing with ALL of the songs...
good to know
Admittedly "Just One of Those Days" carries the album.
You don't know how close I came to choosing that one instead of "Da Real Thing".
Yep, me too.
Jay Z "Blueprint"
Common "Like Water"
Slum Village "Fantastik 1 & 2"
Beanie Sigel "The Reason"
50 Cent "GROTD"
Game "Documentary"
Raphael Saddiq "Instant Vintage"
Eastsidaz "Gang Bang Music"
Jay Dee "Ruff Draft"
Kanye West "College Dropout"
Trio Mocoto--Samba Rock
Radiohead--Kid A
William Parker--O'Neal's Porch
Masada--Live in Sevilla 2000
Andre 3000 - Love Below
D'Angelo - Voodoo
The Streets - Original Pirate Material
The Avalanches - Since I Left You
Nerd - In Search Of...
!!! - Louden Up Now
Eminem - Marshall Mathers LP
Mars Volta - Deloused
+ loads of indierock I didn't bother to check
I didn't say it was necessary, for me it's personal preference. It can either be a cohesive work, or be simply 10 or more good songs that sound great together. I personally like it when someone goes beyond the non-existent boundaries. It shows me they are putting a bit more thought than just "ooh, let's start with a banger, and end with something that will keep fans coming back from more". It works, but I like to see a bit more noggin activity going on, other than "lyrical wit".
Merely a preference.
I also speak for "the art of the album" as a whole, not just hip-hop. Granted, the concept of the "album" was merely to package songs that used to be assembled as a series of 78's, and put them into a long player format. An "album" of 78's is what existed. The "art" of anything didn't happen until the late 60's, and in truth it's someone saying nothing more than "this is a well thought out project". It may be less about art in an art sense, but it's better than saying "I like the formula".
That good, huh? I just bought a copy through Sandbox yesterday, so I look forward to hearing this.
i have to say their new record is HANDS DOWN the worst peace of recorded music i've ever heard in my entire life.
shit's like the outtakes of Steve Vai's passion and warfare pt 2 with Chris Cornell squeezing his balls to hit the hi notes.
unlistenable.