Question for the producers?? (Drum Related)

Mike_Bell

What's the best way to get a crispy, clear hi-hat from a record? I have no problems with chopping kicks, snares and crashes but everytime I try to chop a hi-hat, I start having conniption fits because the schitt don't sound right. How do y'all get your hi-hats sounding right?? -MB

Sun_Fortune

maybe mess with the EQs a bit. All the tech heads will tell you to go into "wave editor" and "run a hiss release editor" or something. From my brief and un-technolical experience, the trick is to find a great hat and add treble, then maybe add some reson and a lowpass filter. Also, you dont have to sample a hi hat to get one in your beat, nahmean.

Swayze

do they wind up sound too choppy? like "tak tak tak" kinda?


I say boost the treble and cut most the bass and a little of the middle and it will sound more like "tss tss tss"


yeah... try that....

Bsides

I usually mix keyboard hats on top of the sample. Mix it low.

Mike_Bell

maybe mess with the EQs a bit. All the tech heads will tell you to go into "wave editor" and "run a hiss release editor" or something. From my brief and un-technolical experience, the trick is to find a great hat and add treble, then maybe add some reson and a lowpass filter. Also, you dont have to sample a hi hat to get one in your beat, nahmean.

Co-sign on the part about not having sample to get a hi-hat. I've been getting my hi hats off of disks.

do they wind up sound too choppy? like "tak tak tak" kinda?

That's what they exactly sound like, DB.

I say boost the treble and cut most the bass and a little of the middle and it will sound more like "tss tss tss"


yeah... try that....

Gonna do that tonight!!


Thanks for the tips, gents.

-MB

Sun_Fortune

Co-sign on the part about not having sample to get a hi-hat. I've been getting my hi hats off of disks.


-MB

sorry, its ealry. what I meant to say is that you dont have to sample a hihat to get something that sounds like one in your beat. some of my favorite hats are snares, weird clicks or percussion hits. It doesnt always have to be a hi hat, especially since they are usually so low in mix and have a bunch of noise form the preceeding kick or snare.

Mike_Bell

Co-sign on the part about not having sample to get a hi-hat. I've been getting my hi hats off of disks.


-MB

sorry, its ealry. what I meant to say is that you dont have to sample a hihat to get something that sounds like one in your beat. some of my favorite hats are snares, weird clicks or percussion hits. It doesnt always have to be a hi hat, especially since they are usually so low in mix and have a bunch of noise form the preceeding kick or snare.

I'm with you. Another thing to expirement with tonight.

peace,
bell

G_Balliando

my 2 cents - try fading out the second half of the hi hat. i agree with dropping out the low-freq as well. the mid and hi-frew depends on the sound you're going for. some people like hats with a little more body, some like 'em thin.

bonzaisk8

this is one thing you need to keep in mind if you want to get that "real" hi hat sound. look at it as if is you're playing a real kit. when you're hitting the hi-hat with the drumstick, each time you hit the hats, it's hitting different parts of the hat, so no two hits are exactly alike. setup a couple hi hat samples with different pitches and velocity and make them sound accordingly.

Bambouche

To quill the ambient noise (flutter from a turntable, low frequencies, etc.) I generally cut all frequencies below 100hz just on the hi-hat. Sometimes this means running the hi-hat through a different channel than the snare or the kick. Depending on the sample, I will run the kicks, snares, and hats through three different channels (all with different compression and EQ settings) and then sub them all together.


Specifically, to make the hi-hat sound better in context, I change the envelope ADSR setting to Attack=0, Decay=65, Sustain=0, Release=65. As seen here:



Depending on the tempo and what type of drum sound you're using, you can fuss with the decay and release times. Decreasing the release time means you don't hear the hi-hat sample end, it just fades.

You can also program the hi-hats to respond differently depending on a number of variables. Most samplers/sequencers have setting assignments that allow you to control velocity, pitch, filter, and envelope values. If you wanted all the hi-hats that were hit anywhere below a velocity of 88 to be lowered by .2 pitch, for example. You can also create a template for the hi-hats, slightly shifting the upbeats ahead, or adding more volume on the 1. You can use two different envelope settings and allow the sequencer to choose from either hi-hat randomly or by program. Assign the hi-hat to two different keys and make slight adjustments in pitch, filtering, or volume to each, then use the first hi-hat for all the down beats and the second for all the up beats.

All these settings are slight, and shouldn't really be that noticeable, but they do add -- however unnoticeably -- to the head nod effect.

Sun_Fortune

Bam's knowledge bomb reminded me of the most important thing, IMO. That is air. You got what you want Coheggan, give the people air.

Once your air is consistent then you can start adding the highlights with the hats. Each hat has a different sound or timbre and things sound different in different contexts. If you sample a hat thats right after a kick, you cant use that hat after the snare. its the air. most producers I know, see the drums visually. trust your visual instincts and you'll know how to get the hats to give you the right sonic bounce, balance and counter-rhythm.

chase

I usually mix keyboard hats on top of the sample. Mix it low.

Mike_Bell

Damn, talk about being sonned.

Thanks for the advice but I have a question about something you posted.

Do you need 8 outs to do this?...

Depending on the sample, I will run the kicks, snares, and hats through three different channels (all with different compression and EQ settings)[/b] and then sub them all together.

Bambouche

Do you need 8 outs to do this?...

Yes, or if not 8, at least more than just the Left/Right mains.

I have 10 outs on my sampler: Main L/R outs and 8 individual outs. I usually use most of them. I run everything into a 40 channel mixer, route the individual signals out through the aux bus (into compressors or EQs) and back into other channels.

Are you using a computer or hardware?

Another option would be to use some timecode sync and dump individual sounds one at a time. You'd record a timecode stamp on one track and then use that (rather than your sequencer) to slave your sampler. You'd record just the kick drum onto it's own track in the recorder, then just the snare, etc. Once everything is isolated on individual tracks, you could EQ or compress the tracks individually. It's a little more time consuming, but you don't need multi-outs.

Jonny_Paycheck

If it's a wide open hat, then leave some air in but if there's some noise under it I would try to chop it as tight as possible - that way, you get down to the essence of the "tick tick" sound and you can use reverb to add some space/air.

Also yeah, try to EQ as much of the dead air out, try different frequencies and try to isolate the hat.

Mike_Bell

Do you need 8 outs to do this?...

Yes, or if not 8, at least more than just the Left/Right mains.

Damn, I was hoping you said no

Are you using a computer or hardware?

I use this...

and real headz know how hard it is to get 8 outs for this piece of equipment.

Another option would be to use some timecode sync and dump individual sounds one at a time. You'd record a timecode stamp on one track and then use that (rather than your sequencer) to slave your sampler. You'd record just the kick drum onto it's own track in the recorder, then just the snare, etc. Once everything is isolated on individual tracks, you could EQ or compress the tracks individually. It's a little more time consuming, but you don't need multi-outs.

I'll look into that. It's probably time for me to upgrade my set up.
Thanks for taking time answer my questions, Bam.