Oh, can we have a debate on what killed house (Not saying' house is dead. Just some of the things that really hurt it) in the last 5-8 years?
2) dj's buying records from one store = everybody playing the same thing
It's such a tough deal. All the house cats hit up the same 2-4 stores in NYC. A lot of my "house" dj friends have moved to breakbeat w/ the gospel vocals.
well this is a misnomer.. when i first got to toronto there had to be at least 1/2 a dozen house / dj / dance oriented record stores..
not sure how many are left now but there are certainly more than just 1.
but i think the issue is that each store tended to push a particular sound.. Dj Sneak had his lil store and i remember goign in there and it was litterally 4 bins of dereck carter, mark farina and dj sneak records... ??? how anybody can expect to stay in bizniz with such a limited selectio ns beyond me... and lo and behold out of bizniz it went.
I always took the hurtin' in house with the influx of euro (Minus brit influences) into the house/rave/d'n'b scenes. In the late 90's you saw this in a big way and IMO, it fucking almost brought it to its knees. Everything from the people at parties (Euro dudes in euro fashions) to the sound of the tracks. It was like the soul and spirituality of what house was, was being taken away and turned into something it wasn't.
Followed closely by the points Aser brought up.
But as far as the store thing goes. There were always some great stores. There are still a couple left. It's just that the support isn't there. One by one they are closing. Which could make Play de the only spot left one day. And Toronto, which was the second biggest house scene in North America and I'd say 3rd in the world will fall from grace into nothingness.
Funny... I've never really been huge into house (Though I was buying and playing it in the late 80's to early 90's). But it's one of the only forms of music I feel sad about and what it's been going through the last 5 years.
I think Dancetrax in Manhattan has adapted to the digital/download age.
I dont know man, I was drawing chalklines around this genre in the late 90's. It seemed to me the big parties were for 40 year olds tryin to relive the 80's.
I think Dancetrax in Manhattan has adapted to the digital/download age.
I dont know man, I was drawing chalklines around this genre in the late 90's. It seemed to me the big parties were for 40 year olds tryin to relive the 80's.
But as far as the store thing goes. There were always some great stores. There are still a couple left. It's just that the support isn't there. One by one they are closing. Which could make Play de the only spot left one day. And Toronto, which was the second biggest house scene in North America and I'd say 3rd in the world will fall from grace into nothingness.
well is it a lack of support or a lack of selection? im not trying to hate but one thing that always amazed me abotu stores here as that the staff never say hello, never ask you what you're looking for.. from working at a record store back in the day i can attest that asking the customer what they're looking for is a good way to figure out what you should be stocking.. as oppossed to stocking what YOU want them to buy.
there's a HUGE disconect in the stores locally and what's going on elsewhere.. look at piccadilly records disco / cosmic / house pages and 90% of those records are not being brought in locally.
hell when i was in montreal last timethere was a big differance in that each store i went in they actually asked me what i was lookng for.. when i named off a dozen artists labels they had no idea what i was talking about but at least they asked...
as for toronto's role as the 3rd biggest house scene in the world i ask simply where are the records?????
i would put Chicago, Detroit, NYC, New Jersey, San Fran, Paris, London, berlin way ahead of toronto in terms of legacy... there may have been some big parties here and a big scene but where are the artists / producers and more importantly the records???? there is no legacy without any of that stuff other than a brief flash in the pan.
Funny... I've never really been huge into house (Though I was buying and playing it in the late 80's to early 90's). But it's one of the only forms of music I feel sad about and what it's been going through the last 5 years.
well i've never been into house in terms of its mid nineties hey day sound either... but i think house is now stronger than it was in that era MUSICALLY... the definition of house is returning to its roots as something underground, and much more ecclectic than just ooooos ooooos ooooos all night long.
musically i think dance music is at its strongest point right now since the late 80's.
nevertheless, you ask most of these dj's about record shopping and play de thurs night will be the first answer they give you. It has become this weird ritual of socializing for the scenesters. If you're anybody then you better get your ass down there on Thursday or you're missing out, hehe.
musically i think dance music is at its strongest point right now since the late 80's.
Is that translating into great records & parties/scenes. NYC house has really struggled in the past couple of years. It sounds like this is a creative cocooning. Then again I dont hit the dance shops anymore.
musically i think dance music is at its strongest point right now since the late 80's.
Is that translating into great records & parties/scenes. NYC house has really struggled in the past couple of years. It sounds like this is a creative cocooning. Then again I dont hit the dance shops anymore.
great records yes
great parites no
scene no
and is it house in the big room 1992-98 style no
but i look at my crates and its like 77 - 89, huge gap and then an inscreasing slope of records from the last 5 years
well is it a lack of support or a lack of selection? im not trying to hate but one thing that always amazed me abotu stores here as that the staff never say hello, never ask you what you're looking for.. from working at a record store back in the day i can attest that asking the customer what they're looking for is a good way to figure out what you should be stocking.. as oppossed to stocking what YOU want them to buy.
old boys' club, if you're in the loop you will get access to records hidden in the back. If not, then you're left to fend for yourself. AKA you scratch my back I'll scratch yours.....
well is it a lack of support or a lack of selection? im not trying to hate but one thing that always amazed me abotu stores here as that the staff never say hello, never ask you what you're looking for.. from working at a record store back in the day i can attest that asking the customer what they're looking for is a good way to figure out what you should be stocking.. as oppossed to stocking what YOU want them to buy.
old boys' club, if you're in the loop you will get access to records hidden in the back. If not, then you're left to fend for yourself. AKA you scratch my back I'll scratch yours.....
well im glad somebody other than me said it
i stand by groucho .. id never want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member anyways.
musically i think dance music is at its strongest point right now since the late 80's.
Is that translating into great records & parties/scenes. NYC house has really struggled in the past couple of years. It sounds like this is a creative cocooning. Then again I dont hit the dance shops anymore.
great records yes
great parites no
scene no
and is it house in the big room 1992-98 style no
but i look at my crates and its like 77 - 89, huge gap and then an inscreasing slope of records from the last 5 years
Do fourteen year olds care about "house" music?
When I was fourteen, I cared/paid attention to it.
When I was fourteen, I cared/paid attention to it.
does that matter? when i was 14 i was checking for bad brains / descendents / minor threat et al.. do 14 year old kids care about bad brains now? does it diminish bad brains?? not in the slightest.
as for toronto's role as the 3rd biggest house scene in the world i ask simply where are the records?????
i would put Chicago, Detroit, NYC, New Jersey, San Fran, Paris, London, berlin way ahead of toronto in terms of legacy... there may have been some big parties here and a big scene but where are the artists / producers and more importantly the records???? there is no legacy without any of that stuff other than a brief flash in the pan.
Well, really I mean "Was". It's no where close now.
But, for the longest time it was only behind Chicago & London. I'm not really talking about a city making releases mind you. Just the overall scene. Up until the late 90's every DJ was coming here and the scene was huge. I mean, nobody is ever fucking with London. But before 2000, Toronto was huge. I mean... Look at the last two big scenes in the 90's before the millenium. Raves & DnB (I know, it's not house music, just a branch off of, but I'm using it as an example)... Toronto was by far the biggest outside London. Now after 1999 is a different story...
But as someone who was cashing out house cats at Traxx and Starsound and selling tickets to events in the late 80's thru the 90's. I'm more than confident saying Toronto had the 3rd biggest scene up until the millenium. I can remember the shop spending over $10,000-15,000+ a week on just house. That was just one shop. Nobody in Detroit was doing that... They had techno on lock. But that was it. Toronto was representing all styles and pushing it hard.
When I was fourteen, I cared/paid attention to it.
does that matter? when i was 14 i was checking for bad brains / descendents / minor threat et al.. do 14 year old kids care about bad brains now? does it diminish bad brains?? not in the slightest.
It doesnt diminish the sound, but Green Day is a long distance from Bad Brains.
Where are the young producers to carry the torch/inject the scenes with new blood. Just sayin'.
[quote But as someone who was cashing out house cats at Traxx and Starsound and selling tickets to events in the late 80's thru the 90's. I'm more than confident saying Toronto had the 3rd biggest scene up until the millenium. I can remember the shop spending over $10,000-15,000+ a week on just house. That was just one shop. Nobody in Detroit was doing that... They had techno on lock. But that was it. Toronto was representing all styles and pushing it hard. im not denying torontos roll as a big player in the party scene and house industry at the time, but it was ephmeral...
a scene with no artists / producers real play makers is a hollow shell with no core.. when the shell cracks the air goes out and everybody is left wondering what that funny smell is.
there's a very very small quote from the late great jim burgess in love saves the day about his arrival from toronto in NYC in the mid 70's - "i was shocked, toronto had WAY better clubs than NYC at the time"
but how quickly does shit like that fade into the mists of time??? toronto had a big club scene in the 70s?? wheres the acknowledgement of this? its forgotten.
toronto has always had a scene of one sort of another but the scene has always been dependent on taste makers from other places, and no foundations have ever been laid in the city. look at the rock scene for example.. the el mo was considerd a major landmark not because of any canadian bands that played there but because a famous elvis costello boot was recorded there and the stones did a gig there one time... its sad.
Where are the young producers to carry the torch/inject the scenes with new blood. Just sayin'.
that in essence, is the problem w/ the current nyc garage scene. Most new producers are getting into broken beat or the techey stuff like metro area....
Where are the young producers to carry the torch/inject the scenes with new blood. Just sayin'.
that in essence, is the problem w/ the current nyc garage scene. Most new producers are getting into broken beat or the techey stuff like metro area....
i agre most young kids are more into the hip hop side of the tracks and thus tend to gravitate towards UKG and broke beat.
but to consider metro area tech is splitting hairs.. is straffe's set it off tech? is cybotron's clear tech? those are all house classics in my books
it's just a term, I wasn't associating it w/ detroit techno or anything like that. There really isn't a name to describe that environ sound right now.
Am I as familiar in this area as you, probably not. I have seen metro area do a pa set and also been to parties w/ brennan green dj'ing. I enjoyed it......
take it for what it's worth......
main point being house is carried by old timers who subscribe to the "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" model.
it's just a term, I wasn't associating it w/ detroit techno or anything like that. There really isn't a name to describe that environ sound right now.
Am I as familiar in this area as you, probably not. I have seen metro area do a pa set and also been to parties w/ brennan green dj'ing. I enjoyed it......
take it for what it's worth......
main point being house is carried by old timers who subscribe to the "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" model.
well that answers the question then... environ is a house label.. brennan green is a house dj.. i know peeps are trying to attach names to this kind of stuff.. nu disco, electrohouse what have you but this stuff is as house music as MAW / sneak / ron hardy / larry levan et al
the micromanaging of dance music genres has certainly had a detrimental effect on the scene.. but i subscribe to the old adage that house is just disco's revenge.
it's the same syndrome that plagues all genres of art. People love to label, there's no denying it. I'm sure if someone asked you about the type of music you make, "house" alone would not be a sufficient answer. It's a necessary evil......
it's the same syndrome that plagues all genres of art. People love to label, there's no denying it. I'm sure if someone asked you about the type of music you make, "house" alone would not be a sufficient answer. It's a necessary evil......
yes i agree with that.. and part of me used to think "shit what are peeps ganna call my stuff" but why worry about that? sure some peopl are gonna be put off by a record cause its labelled house but will happily buy the EXACT same record labelled as tech.. its silly in the extreme.
alright enough abotu this shit hole we call toronto lets talk records if yer lookin fer that rea lschitt i think you could do a whole lot worse than invesitgate some of these comps that eskimo put out a few ears back.. sickness...
Club Ice - Manhasset has got to be the sickest mr fingers bassline ever.
Paradisco 3000 - Chicago Boogie Sampler 1/4 Eskimo 541416 501166 A1: Kasso - One More Round // A2: Liquid Liquid - Optimo // B1: Adonis - We???re Rocking Down The House // B2: Six Brown Brothers - Battery Acid // Releasedate: 2004-05-03 Paradisco 3000 - Chicago Boogie Sampler 2/4 Eskimo 541416 501167 A1: Steve Pointdexter - Computer Madness // A2: Virgo - Ride // B1: Fred Brown - Roman Days // B2: Steve Pointdexter - Happy Stick // Releasedate: 2004-05-03 Paradisco 3000 - Chicago Boogie Sampler 3/4 Eskimo 541416 501168 A1: Club Ice - Manhasset (Larry Heard Mix) // A2: Jeanette Thomas - Shake Your Body // B1: Virgo - Free Yourself // B2: Fingers Inc - I???m Strong // Releasedate: 2004-05-03 Paradisco 3000 - Chicago Boogie Sampler 4/4 Eskimo 541416 501169 A1: Master C&J feat. Liz Torres - Face It // A2: Disco D - Beat It // B1: Master C&J feat. Liz Torres - Can???t Get Enough // B2: Frankie Knuckles - Waiting For My Angel //
well is it a lack of support or a lack of selection?
Oh and it's both...
I mean... Less DJ's are buying records. Which in turn kills small labels and decreases the amount of selection in a store.
The reason shops don't have a selection is simple. They can't afford to anymore. Anyone who has run a shop knows this. It would be great to spend over *said* amount of dollars to have one. But it's just not happening anymore. It's impossible not to end up with dead stalk. Which will never sell, even if you sell it for half the price that you paid for it. Play de was able to do this for years but because they had a major advantage over everyone.
I'm saying it as it is... There will come a day when there might only be 1 store in the city selling new music. Distribution companies will fall and everything will be online sales. Which will be done by a very small handful of companies world wide.
If the price of a record can never drop to a retail price of under a buck (And that will never happen), the days of new releases on record are numbered. And house will be hit the hardest for the market of urban & dance music. Here in the North America anyways.
The reason shops don't have a selection is simple. They can't afford to anymore.
well you have to realise that the boom days were just that a BOOM and peeps never really scaled back ..or filed to scale back quickly enough...
I'm saying it as it is... There will come a day when there might only be 1 store in the city selling new music. Distribution companies will fall and everything will be online sales. Which will be done by a very small handful of companies world wide.
well i disagree with that.. online digital distro wil lbe more varied than the current physical distro model.. anyone with an internet connection and a paypal accoutn can sel ltheir releases online.. to get you records into a physical store you have to get distro. .and i nthe states right now its a very very touchy situation .. if distro A wants you records they want to be the only distro with your recors in the whole country.. even if there order is only 100 copies..
the days of new releases on record are numbered. And house will be hit the hardest for the market of urban & dance music. Here in the North America anyways.
i agree and disagree with that.. if id have started my label 10 years ago id be shit out of luck.. no internet and people would never have even called my shit dance music let alone house.
nowadays i can shift 500 - 1000 12"s in under 3 months.. obviously these arent bank busting numbers but on an indy level with no PR, no hype, no press, no gigs and no local support i think those numbers are very very strong.
90% of those records are going overseas mind you so yes your point about the north american market dying has probably already come to pass.
couple this with selling digital downloads and i think you have a relatively stable market for small indys.. the ceiling on a release is around 1000 - 2000 copies but you can continue to sell your back catalogue digitally at no extra expense, thus generating revenue where previously there would be none (ie after you've sold out the 12"s)
but hey i come at this from a punk rock background where selling enough 7"s to make gas money home from the gig was a BIG deal... the idea of stores ordering $10k worth of house records alone boggles my mind.
Comments
well this is a misnomer.. when i first got to toronto there had to be at least 1/2 a dozen house / dj / dance oriented record stores..
not sure how many are left now but there are certainly more than just 1.
but i think the issue is that each store tended to push a particular sound.. Dj Sneak had his lil store and i remember goign in there and it was litterally 4 bins of dereck carter, mark farina and dj sneak records... ??? how anybody can expect to stay in bizniz with such a limited selectio ns beyond me... and lo and behold out of bizniz it went.
Followed closely by the points Aser brought up.
But as far as the store thing goes. There were always some great stores. There are still a couple left. It's just that the support isn't there. One by one they are closing. Which could make Play de the only spot left one day. And Toronto, which was the second biggest house scene in North America and I'd say 3rd in the world will fall from grace into nothingness.
Funny... I've never really been huge into house (Though I was buying and playing it in the late 80's to early 90's). But it's one of the only forms of music I feel sad about and what it's been going through the last 5 years.
C'est La Vie
I dont know man, I was drawing chalklines around this genre in the late 90's.
It seemed to me the big parties were for 40 year olds tryin to relive the 80's.
Hence the term "Dad's House" HA
well is it a lack of support or a lack of selection? im not trying to hate but one thing that always amazed me abotu stores here as that the staff never say hello, never ask you what you're looking for.. from working at a record store back in the day i can attest that asking the customer what they're looking for is a good way to figure out what you should be stocking.. as oppossed to stocking what YOU want them to buy.
there's a HUGE disconect in the stores locally and what's going on elsewhere.. look at piccadilly records disco / cosmic / house pages and 90% of those records are not being brought in locally.
hell when i was in montreal last timethere was a big differance in that each store i went in they actually asked me what i was lookng for.. when i named off a dozen artists labels they had no idea what i was talking about but at least they asked...
as for toronto's role as the 3rd biggest house scene in the world i ask simply where are the records?????
i would put Chicago, Detroit, NYC, New Jersey, San Fran, Paris, London, berlin way ahead of toronto in terms of legacy... there may have been some big parties here and a big scene but where are the artists / producers and more importantly the records???? there is no legacy without any of that stuff other than a brief flash in the pan.
well i've never been into house in terms of its mid nineties hey day sound either... but i think house is now stronger than it was in that era MUSICALLY... the definition of house is returning to its roots as something underground, and much more ecclectic than just ooooos ooooos ooooos all night long.
musically i think dance music is at its strongest point right now since the late 80's.
nevertheless, you ask most of these dj's about record shopping and play de thurs night will be the first answer they give you. It has become this weird ritual of socializing for the scenesters. If you're anybody then you better get your ass down there on Thursday or you're missing out, hehe.
Is that translating into great records & parties/scenes. NYC house has really struggled in the past couple of years. It sounds like this is a creative cocooning. Then again I dont hit the dance shops anymore.
great records yes
great parites no
scene no
and is it house in the big room 1992-98 style no
but i look at my crates and its like 77 - 89, huge gap and then an inscreasing slope of records from the last 5 years
old boys' club, if you're in the loop you will get access to records hidden in the back. If not, then you're left to fend for yourself. AKA you scratch my back I'll scratch yours.....
well im glad somebody other than me said it
i stand by groucho .. id never want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member anyways.
Do fourteen year olds care about "house" music?
When I was fourteen, I cared/paid attention to it.
does that matter? when i was 14 i was checking for bad brains / descendents / minor threat et al.. do 14 year old kids care about bad brains now? does it diminish bad brains?? not in the slightest.
Well, really I mean "Was". It's no where close now.
But, for the longest time it was only behind Chicago & London. I'm not really talking about a city making releases mind you. Just the overall scene. Up until the late 90's every DJ was coming here and the scene was huge. I mean, nobody is ever fucking with London. But before 2000, Toronto was huge. I mean... Look at the last two big scenes in the 90's before the millenium. Raves & DnB (I know, it's not house music, just a branch off of, but I'm using it as an example)... Toronto was by far the biggest outside London. Now after 1999 is a different story...
But as someone who was cashing out house cats at Traxx and Starsound and selling tickets to events in the late 80's thru the 90's. I'm more than confident saying Toronto had the 3rd biggest scene up until the millenium. I can remember the shop spending over $10,000-15,000+ a week on just house. That was just one shop. Nobody in Detroit was doing that... They had techno on lock. But that was it. Toronto was representing all styles and pushing it hard.
Where are the young producers to carry the torch/inject the scenes with new blood.
Just sayin'.
But as someone who was cashing out house cats at Traxx and Starsound and selling tickets to events in the late 80's thru the 90's. I'm more than confident saying Toronto had the 3rd biggest scene up until the millenium. I can remember the shop spending over $10,000-15,000+ a week on just house. That was just one shop. Nobody in Detroit was doing that... They had techno on lock. But that was it. Toronto was representing all styles and pushing it hard.
im not denying torontos roll as a big player in the party scene and house industry at the time, but it was ephmeral...
a scene with no artists / producers real play makers is a hollow shell with no core.. when the shell cracks the air goes out and everybody is left wondering what that funny smell is.
there's a very very small quote from the late great jim burgess in love saves the day about his arrival from toronto in NYC in the mid 70's - "i was shocked, toronto had WAY better clubs than NYC at the time"
but how quickly does shit like that fade into the mists of time??? toronto had a big club scene in the 70s?? wheres the acknowledgement of this? its forgotten.
toronto has always had a scene of one sort of another but the scene has always been dependent on taste makers from other places, and no foundations have ever been laid in the city. look at the rock scene for example.. the el mo was considerd a major landmark not because of any canadian bands that played there but because a famous elvis costello boot was recorded there and the stones did a gig there one time... its sad.
that in essence, is the problem w/ the current nyc garage scene. Most new producers are getting into broken beat or the techey stuff like metro area....
i agre most young kids are more into the hip hop side of the tracks and thus tend to gravitate towards UKG and broke beat.
but to consider metro area tech is splitting hairs.. is straffe's set it off tech? is cybotron's clear tech? those are all house classics in my books
Am I as familiar in this area as you, probably not. I have seen metro area do a pa set and also been to parties w/ brennan green dj'ing. I enjoyed it......
take it for what it's worth......
main point being house is carried by old timers who subscribe to the "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" model.
Energy Flash is a must.
Rasoul- True Science
FSOL- Papua New Guinea
well that answers the question then... environ is a house label.. brennan green is a house dj.. i know peeps are trying to attach names to this kind of stuff.. nu disco, electrohouse what have you but this stuff is as house music as MAW / sneak / ron hardy / larry levan et al
the micromanaging of dance music genres has certainly had a detrimental effect on the scene.. but i subscribe to the old adage that house is just disco's revenge.
Movement - Play De, Do Right, Cosmos
Milk - Gypsy Co-Op
Hotstepper - Tangerine
even though the scene got stale quick, folks managed to flip it into something. So kudos to them.....
yes i agree with that.. and part of me used to think "shit what are peeps ganna call my stuff" but why worry about that? sure some peopl are gonna be put off by a record cause its labelled house but will happily buy the EXACT same record labelled as tech.. its silly in the extreme.
Club Ice - Manhasset has got to be the sickest mr fingers bassline ever.
Paradisco 3000 - Chicago Boogie Sampler 1/4
Eskimo 541416 501166
A1: Kasso - One More Round //
A2: Liquid Liquid - Optimo //
B1: Adonis - We???re Rocking Down The House //
B2: Six Brown Brothers - Battery Acid //
Releasedate: 2004-05-03
Paradisco 3000 - Chicago Boogie Sampler 2/4
Eskimo 541416 501167
A1: Steve Pointdexter - Computer Madness //
A2: Virgo - Ride //
B1: Fred Brown - Roman Days //
B2: Steve Pointdexter - Happy Stick //
Releasedate: 2004-05-03
Paradisco 3000 - Chicago Boogie Sampler 3/4
Eskimo 541416 501168
A1: Club Ice - Manhasset (Larry Heard Mix) //
A2: Jeanette Thomas - Shake Your Body //
B1: Virgo - Free Yourself //
B2: Fingers Inc - I???m Strong //
Releasedate: 2004-05-03
Paradisco 3000 - Chicago Boogie Sampler 4/4
Eskimo 541416 501169
A1: Master C&J feat. Liz Torres - Face It //
A2: Disco D - Beat It //
B1: Master C&J feat. Liz Torres - Can???t Get Enough //
B2: Frankie Knuckles - Waiting For My Angel //
Oh and it's both...
I mean... Less DJ's are buying records. Which in turn kills small labels and decreases the amount of selection in a store.
The reason shops don't have a selection is simple. They can't afford to anymore. Anyone who has run a shop knows this. It would be great to spend over *said* amount of dollars to have one. But it's just not happening anymore. It's impossible not to end up with dead stalk. Which will never sell, even if you sell it for half the price that you paid for it. Play de was able to do this for years but because they had a major advantage over everyone.
I'm saying it as it is... There will come a day when there might only be 1 store in the city selling new music. Distribution companies will fall and everything will be online sales. Which will be done by a very small handful of companies world wide.
If the price of a record can never drop to a retail price of under a buck (And that will never happen), the days of new releases on record are numbered. And house will be hit the hardest for the market of urban & dance music. Here in the North America anyways.
Wow, I'm wayyy off topic.....
I need a sandwhich!
well you have to realise that the boom days were just that a BOOM and peeps never really scaled back ..or filed to scale back quickly enough...
well i disagree with that.. online digital distro wil lbe more varied than the current physical distro model.. anyone with an internet connection and a paypal accoutn can sel ltheir releases online.. to get you records into a physical store you have to get distro. .and i nthe states right now its a very very touchy situation .. if distro A wants you records they want to be the only distro with your recors in the whole country.. even if there order is only 100 copies..
i agree and disagree with that.. if id have started my label 10 years ago id be shit out of luck.. no internet and people would never have even called my shit dance music let alone house.
nowadays i can shift 500 - 1000 12"s in under 3 months.. obviously these arent bank busting numbers but on an indy level with no PR, no hype, no press, no gigs and no local support i think those numbers are very very strong.
90% of those records are going overseas mind you so yes your point about the north american market dying has probably already come to pass.
couple this with selling digital downloads and i think you have a relatively stable market for small indys.. the ceiling on a release is around 1000 - 2000 copies but you can continue to sell your back catalogue digitally at no extra expense, thus generating revenue where previously there would be none (ie after you've sold out the 12"s)
but hey i come at this from a punk rock background where selling enough 7"s to make gas money home from the gig was a BIG deal... the idea of stores ordering $10k worth of house records alone boggles my mind.
http://www.detroitdigitalvinyl.com/