HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
ako said:
HarveyCanal said:
Donuts > Endtroducing.
complexity wise...no chance.
but i definitely LISTEN to donuts a hell of a lot more than endtroducing...
Well, exactly...listening pleasure is the key.
But the point of bringing up Donuts was to counter all the people propping Shadow with this false idea that the days of the instrumental hip-hop album passed circa 1996.
I mean, the spawn of Shadow aka the likes of Prefuse73 and RJD2 practically did kill the instrumental hip-hop album with their extended studies in boring.
But come with a fresh approach like Dilla did via Donuts and poof, it's right back on.
Eventually post-Endtroducing, Shadow did what he should have done, which was attempt to connect himself to the core rap audience that inspired him from jump. But frankly his hyphy experiments sounded far too sanitized to be taken as real.
So yes, it's a hard pill to swallow that someone as theoretically inferior as say Scott Storch can better do what Shadow can "on the block"...but evidently, such is the case.
Josh could certainly reclaim his throne as king of the side circus, but his glory days are long over.
I mean, the spawn of Shadow aka the likes of Prefuse73 and RJD2 practically did kill the instrumental hip-hop album with their extended studies in boring.
But come with a fresh approach like Dilla did via Donuts and poof, it's right back on.
deadringer was totally solid. the rest, ehhhh. never dug any of the prefuse stuff and since we last spoke had like 2 moments.
Semi-related. My partner put together a few images as part of a Magnum workshop and related photography exhibition in Western Australia a couple of weeks ago. We hung out with the homeless for a week and the video below is a snippet of the result. She insisted on using Shadow's MIAPW for the short exhibit.
I don't dislike the new album at all (apart from border crossing) its just not coherent as an LP . It should have been 2 different albums, one rock / folk / weird LP and one more classic shadow style LP. The packaging could be more coherent if the sound was, the aesthetic is off. Someone did not do their job and say no.
I'm giving it more time, it must be good if so many people hate it.
Was Endtroducing great because it had lots of samples and was well produced?
Or, as I am contending, was it great because it was great music, the result of a (young) life time of creative work?
I don't believe he fell off (artistically) because his music changed. Nor, do I believe he fell off because he can't use as many samples.
I think he fell of because the music is not as good. I think the reason for that is a lack of creative inspiration.
He can go into a studio and put together a well produced collection of songs and many styles. But that means nothing if the music isn't good, if the creativity and inspiration is not there.
It is the ability to be creative over time that is so rare.
No one complained that Cold Sweat sucked because it didn't sound like Please Please Please.
Thank you to this thraed for prompting me to actually listen to the new Shadow album.
Shit sounds great! Were it not for this extended thread, I would have completely ignored this album.
My loss. Shadow knows his shit. The Pink Flyod comparison is definitely apt.
b/w
This one song "Warning Call" really stinks! :talib:
I mean, the spawn of Shadow aka the likes of Prefuse73 and RJD2 practically did kill the instrumental hip-hop album with their extended studies in boring.
But come with a fresh approach like Dilla did via Donuts and poof, it's right back on.
deadringer was totally solid. the rest, ehhhh. never dug any of the prefuse stuff and since we last spoke had like 2 moments.
good call bringing up donuts.
You're trippin'. Since we last spoke although it didn't have the impact of "deadringer" is dope, front to back.
Prefuse "one word extinguisher" is another that grew on me.
i enjoyed his stuff in the early 90's. it was different, progressive and good. then that "sound" (which in truth he jacked from david axelrod and others) got jacked by everyone and suddenly it started turning up in car commercials etc.. so maybe he just wanted to get away from all that. the same thing seemed to happen to portishead, his contemporary.
sadly, everyone would probably been better off if both groups had taken rey's advice and just stayed in their wheelhouse for a couple of more albums to cement their careers and fanbase.
everything is so clear in hindsight.
I'd probably have to disagree with the Portishead analogy, unless you're talking about their second album rather than their third? To me the third album was a great example about how to to keep the influences at the core of the group but also expand the sound - it sounded like Portishead but it didn't sound like their previous releases if that makes sense.
Yes. I ride hard for "Third" and I think it's the perfect example of evolving musically but somehow maintaining your own sound. IMO Portishead did the right thing with that album. Crabmongerfunk is right that they had been kind of stigmatised as 90s dinner music (I think Geoff Barrow has addressed this in several interviews) and nobody was expecting 30-50 year old grown folks to come out with a statement as intense as that after a 10-year hiatus. I don't think the fans that wanted them to "stay in their lane" took well to the new direction, but personally, I loved it.
"Endtroducing" is filed. It's a good album, but I was never as googoo crazy about it as many seem to be. I'm not familiar with his output since "The Private Press". Like many others have noted, it wouldn't really be very interesting to hear him do what he did in 1996 in 2012. More power to him for moving on and still being successful. That being said, I have no idea if his new stuff is good. Only heard that "I'm Exited" track which wasn't bad, but didn't grab me that much either. Might have to go to the blogosphere to .
When a career spans longer than a decade I'm not sure it's really about falling off as much as it is about not being able to inspire the same level of hype or interest in new releases and projects.
Seeing how DJ Shadow clearly has a good ear for music I'm slightly surprised that he hasn't moved more towards production and arrangement (and not production in the sense of making beats for rappers, but full band productions across different styles).
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
DOR said:
DocMcCoy said:
DOR said:
Jonny_Paycheck said:
You can still sample whatever you want.
Yeah, Just ask Girl Talk.
Don't ever expect to get a record deal or a publishing contract out of it, though. As soon as you try to actually sell that shit in quantity, you'll disappear under an avalanche of C&D notices.
Maybe, but many times it's not just about money. Artist sue to stop the use to their music in others music and it's not a monetary thing. So why has no one hit him yet?
I've seem him in interviews saying he's not too worried about getting sued. Maybe he's fine without posting big sales numbers (Tho, I'm guessing nobody really knows what sales are like for him). But it's not like his albums haven't made quite a bit of industry noise in the past. Feed the Animals was on both Time & Rolling Stone best album of the year list the year it came out.
Don't labels/publishers/lawyers/etc usually tend to enjoy making examples of people who have a blatant disregard of what they believe is the law?
I mean, the spawn of Shadow aka the likes of Prefuse73 and RJD2 practically did kill the instrumental hip-hop album with their extended studies in boring.
But come with a fresh approach like Dilla did via Donuts and poof, it's right back on.
deadringer was totally solid. the rest, ehhhh. never dug any of the prefuse stuff and since we last spoke had like 2 moments.
good call bringing up donuts.
You're trippin'. Since we last spoke although it didn't have the impact of "deadringer" is dope, front to back.
Prefuse "one word extinguisher" is another that grew on me.
i dont dig prefuses sound at all for some reason, but i am a huge RJ fan
i gotta get since we last spoke out again for another listen. "1976" sticks with me but i dont feel like the rest of the album was quite as memorable as deadringer, which had PLENTY of tracks id skip back to on a regular basis.
I'll take Signify over Shadow, RJ & Prefuse, personally.
Having read the same 33 1/3 book on 'Endtroducing...' that was mentioned earlier, I realised that the Shadow stuff I liked best was before he got his MPC, when he was still making tracks on a 4 track pause-button style.
For what it's worth, I tend to prefer less sample-heavy stuff in the main. If you find a hot loop, cool - I'm not mad at it being used but ideally I'd sooner hear that stuff on a mixtape and have something more original on an original production. Hip-hop production = crate digging = keepin it real = whatever... bottom line is - if you take that tone you found on that late 60s psych record, map it across 16 pads and make your own shit 11/10 I'll dig it more than if you just loop the whole bar or 4 or 8...
Comments
Well, exactly...listening pleasure is the key.
But the point of bringing up Donuts was to counter all the people propping Shadow with this false idea that the days of the instrumental hip-hop album passed circa 1996.
I mean, the spawn of Shadow aka the likes of Prefuse73 and RJD2 practically did kill the instrumental hip-hop album with their extended studies in boring.
But come with a fresh approach like Dilla did via Donuts and poof, it's right back on.
Eventually post-Endtroducing, Shadow did what he should have done, which was attempt to connect himself to the core rap audience that inspired him from jump. But frankly his hyphy experiments sounded far too sanitized to be taken as real.
So yes, it's a hard pill to swallow that someone as theoretically inferior as say Scott Storch can better do what Shadow can "on the block"...but evidently, such is the case.
Josh could certainly reclaim his throne as king of the side circus, but his glory days are long over.
So, so good
deadringer was totally solid. the rest, ehhhh. never dug any of the prefuse stuff and since we last spoke had like 2 moments.
good call bringing up donuts.
Diminishing Returns 1 & 2
Funky Skunk
PP and BF...
all great... wish he'd do more similar shit.
Invisible from Samantha Harding-Farrenberg on Vimeo.
I would just like to cosign Harvey's work in this thread as being of an excellent standard.
I'm giving it more time, it must be good if so many people hate it.
I liked this too. :lol:
thought the answer was already in that highly regarded album of his
It's the money!
as you should
Was Endtroducing great because it had lots of samples and was well produced?
Or, as I am contending, was it great because it was great music, the result of a (young) life time of creative work?
I don't believe he fell off (artistically) because his music changed. Nor, do I believe he fell off because he can't use as many samples.
I think he fell of because the music is not as good. I think the reason for that is a lack of creative inspiration.
He can go into a studio and put together a well produced collection of songs and many styles. But that means nothing if the music isn't good, if the creativity and inspiration is not there.
It is the ability to be creative over time that is so rare.
No one complained that Cold Sweat sucked because it didn't sound like Please Please Please.
Shit sounds great! Were it not for this extended thread, I would have completely ignored this album.
My loss. Shadow knows his shit. The Pink Flyod comparison is definitely apt.
b/w
This one song "Warning Call" really stinks! :talib:
run for your life = instant breakface.
Fixed. One of my favourite albums of 2005 and I recently just visited it again. Hate me now.
You're trippin'. Since we last spoke although it didn't have the impact of "deadringer" is dope, front to back.
Prefuse "one word extinguisher" is another that grew on me.
Yes. I ride hard for "Third" and I think it's the perfect example of evolving musically but somehow maintaining your own sound. IMO Portishead did the right thing with that album. Crabmongerfunk is right that they had been kind of stigmatised as 90s dinner music (I think Geoff Barrow has addressed this in several interviews) and nobody was expecting 30-50 year old grown folks to come out with a statement as intense as that after a 10-year hiatus. I don't think the fans that wanted them to "stay in their lane" took well to the new direction, but personally, I loved it.
"Endtroducing" is filed. It's a good album, but I was never as googoo crazy about it as many seem to be. I'm not familiar with his output since "The Private Press". Like many others have noted, it wouldn't really be very interesting to hear him do what he did in 1996 in 2012. More power to him for moving on and still being successful. That being said, I have no idea if his new stuff is good. Only heard that "I'm Exited" track which wasn't bad, but didn't grab me that much either. Might have to go to the blogosphere to
Seeing how DJ Shadow clearly has a good ear for music I'm slightly surprised that he hasn't moved more towards production and arrangement (and not production in the sense of making beats for rappers, but full band productions across different styles).
It's really not that complicated.
You should, you spent a LOT of time trying to be Shadow, Jr.
:oh_snap:
Zing!
Thanks for listening.
i dont dig prefuses sound at all for some reason, but i am a huge RJ fan
i gotta get since we last spoke out again for another listen. "1976" sticks with me but i dont feel like the rest of the album was quite as memorable as deadringer, which had PLENTY of tracks id skip back to on a regular basis.
Having read the same 33 1/3 book on 'Endtroducing...' that was mentioned earlier, I realised that the Shadow stuff I liked best was before he got his MPC, when he was still making tracks on a 4 track pause-button style.
For what it's worth, I tend to prefer less sample-heavy stuff in the main. If you find a hot loop, cool - I'm not mad at it being used but ideally I'd sooner hear that stuff on a mixtape and have something more original on an original production. Hip-hop production = crate digging = keepin it real = whatever... bottom line is - if you take that tone you found on that late 60s psych record, map it across 16 pads and make your own shit 11/10 I'll dig it more than if you just loop the whole bar or 4 or 8...
DJ Shadow on being 'out of style and out of step'