Shadow (why did he fall off?)

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  • DustedDonDustedDon 830 Posts
    he made and incredible game changing record in 96' followed it up with a very strong sophmore LP and has consistently put out some of the most respected dj mixes ever, not to mention an array of dope 12 inches and side projects like UNKLE/Darkdays.

    he pretty much put record digging and soul/funk/psych on the map for the lil dude masses in the late 90s/early 2000s and made old timey music cool again. dude deserves a lot more respect then hes getting in this thread.

    so what if his albums don't sound like "Endtroducing" anymore? lets just look at "instrumental hip-hop" as a whole, its not really popping and pretty much hit its peak a while ago, so how could he even put out another "classic" album in the genre? i don't see anyone doing it in 2012.

    the truth is he'll probably never get anymore notoriety than he's gotten up until now (which is still quite a bit) but will always be sweated and be able to do what ever he wants to do with music, which i think is pretty cool.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    DustedDon said:
    made old timey music cool again

    I am not a big fan, etc etc...but is this attribution widely accepted?

  • batmonbatmon 27,577 Posts
    bassie said:
    DustedDon said:
    made old timey music cool again

    I am not a big fan, etc etc...but is this attribution widely accepted?

    No.

    Cats were checking old shit before Shadow.

  • JectWonJectWon (@_@) 1,654 Posts
    RAJ said:
    To say he lost his fanbase is silly. He has over 600,000 Facebook Likes??? if that means anything.

    Is it impossible for the vast majority of those 'like's to be generated off of peoples' appreciation of his earlier work?

  • discos_almadiscos_alma discos_alma 2,164 Posts
    DustedDon said:
    he made and incredible game changing record in 96' followed it up with a very strong sophmore LP and has consistently put out some of the most respected dj mixes ever, not to mention an array of dope 12 inches and side projects like UNKLE/Darkdays.

    he pretty much put record digging and soul/funk/psych on the map for the lil dude masses in the late 90s/early 2000s and made old timey music cool again. dude deserves a lot more respect then hes getting in this thread.

    so what if his albums don't sound like "Endtroducing" anymore? lets just look at "instrumental hip-hop" as a whole, its not really popping and pretty much hit its peak a while ago, so how could he even put out another "classic" album in the genre? i don't see anyone doing it in 2012.

    the truth is he'll probably never get anymore notoriety than he's gotten up until now (which is still quite a bit) but will always be sweated and be able to do what ever he wants to do with music, which i think is pretty cool.

    It's pretty clear that everyone is talking about his music in this thread, not his overall influence (though I'm sure that will be debated as well). The vast majority of folks in here agree that his latest albums are not of high quality.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Someone at this point should point out that he can do whatever he wants with his music.

  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    batmon said:
    bassie said:
    DustedDon said:
    made old timey music cool again

    I am not a big fan, etc etc...but is this attribution widely accepted?

    No.

    Cats were checking old shit before Shadow.

    Sayin'. That is a simply ridiculous statement.

  • JectWonJectWon (@_@) 1,654 Posts
    RAJ said:
    JectWon said:
    RAJ said:
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    I don't know. Sometimes you lose the thread.

    You can still sample whatever you want.

    He can sample all the poor Texas funk musicians he conned into giving him the masters?

    Whoa, that sounds interesting....anyplace I can go for details on this?


    Well shit...last I checked, Fleetwood Mack aren't poor Texas Musicians and I know Shadow doesn't own their masters...so I can only assume this is a reference to the fact what you are talking about is 'Rumor'...well played....I will take my question to google.

  • JectWonJectWon (@_@) 1,654 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    Someone at this point should point out that he can do whatever he wants with his music.

    Jesus people, it's his music and he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it....goddamn jackals.

  • DustedDonDustedDon 830 Posts
    ~

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    DB_Cooper said:
    batmon said:
    bassie said:
    DustedDon said:
    made old timey music cool again

    I am not a big fan, etc etc...but is this attribution widely accepted?

    No.

    Cats were checking old shit before Shadow.

    Sayin'. That is a simply ridiculous statement.

    OK - thank you! ...I am highly disconnected when it comes to this guy, just wanted to check in.

  • akoako 3,409 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    Someone at this point should point out that he can do whatever he wants with his music.

    some people on here dont have that mindset. they want everything to sound like 1996. no room for expansion/getting bored with your old work/trying something new and fresh to you to keep you motivated.

    shadow never fell off. hes still doing what he loves. he "fell off" because you jerked off to endtroducing for 7 years, then when private press came out there wasnt "what does your soul look like part 13".

    im listening to the new album and its pretty great....doesnt sound like the old shadow. sounds like hes having a lot more fun with his music.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    ako said:
    they want everything to sound like 1996.


    I want this on a tshirt.

  • DustedDonDustedDon 830 Posts
    my statement about old timey music was meant to convey that he put a lot of young aspiring DJs/producers (thats why i said Lil dudes, but of course that part wasnt quoted) on to older stuff and to dig a bit deeper, if you dont think he had a hand in in getting at least some people interested in older stuff thats just crazy. obviously lots of people have always been checking for obscure and older music.

    the thread said "why did shadow fall off", my point is, that its just stupid to say he's fallen off because its just not true and if you expect another ground breaking album in the instrumental hip hop realm, its not gonna happen because he already did it.

  • akoako 3,409 Posts
    DustedDon said:
    the thread said "why did shadow fall off", my point is, that its just stupid to say he's fallen off because its just not true and if you expect another ground breaking album in the instrumental hip hop realm, its not gonna happen because he already did it.

    exactly. people want to have their minds blown AGAIN by gloomy loops and chopped funk drums. really? that can still impress people? its not gonna happen. let your ears evolve with shadows if you wanna continue being a fan. dont get stuck in one era and then cry when a dude moves on.

    and i openly admit i didnt like a second of "the outsider"...

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    LEAVE SHADOW ALONE!

  • akoako 3,409 Posts
    hahahahahahaha, forgot about that dude.

  • batmonbatmon 27,577 Posts
    I didnt read anyone here sayin that they were expecting Endtroducing for the next three albums or next decade.

    Where is this?

    It sounds like most cats here was ridin with dude for a long minute.
    I copped Unkle, P-Press, and that BrainFreeze DVD. I lost interest after that shit.

    Simple ass math.

  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    Agree with Batmon. It just got to the point that I didn't really like the type of music I was hearing. I didn't want volume three of the same album, but there's no reason I have keep liking an artist if they started making music I don't like.

    And on that note, there's nothing wrong with saying you'd like more of what you like. It's silly to expect it, but no problem with wanting more.

    On the Portishead third album. To me, that was a great maturation for the band. It didn't grab me at first, but grew on me when I was ready.

    Shadows new album has some cool songs, but also some that are just not my taste. Who likes that metal song? It's impressive that he made it, but there are entry of good metal songs to listen to that aren't made by a man and a box. But as Harvey said, he can do whatever he wants and he should.

  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    I also agree that the genre itself is dead and has been dead for a long time.

    I have a ton of respect for him. He was a trail blazer in many ways. First his productions and then I think he took it to another level for the instrumental dudes when he did In Tune and On Time. Pretty mind blowing stuff. I went to the show and it was really original and impressive. Set a new standard I would say.

    I feel embarrassed talking so much about this.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Donuts > Endtroducing.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,769 Posts
    DocMcCoy said:
    DOR said:
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    You can still sample whatever you want.

    Yeah, Just ask Girl Talk.

    Don't ever expect to get a record deal or a publishing contract out of it, though. As soon as you try to actually sell that shit in quantity, you'll disappear under an avalanche of C&D notices.

    Maybe, but many times it's not just about money. Artist sue to stop the use to their music in others music and it's not a monetary thing. So why has no one hit him yet?

    I've seem him in interviews saying he's not too worried about getting sued. Maybe he's fine without posting big sales numbers (Tho, I'm guessing nobody really knows what sales are like for him). But it's not like his albums haven't made quite a bit of industry noise in the past. Feed the Animals was on both Time & Rolling Stone best album of the year list the year it came out.

    Don't labels/publishers/lawyers/etc usually tend to enjoy making examples of people who have a blatant disregard of what they believe is the law?

  • SIRUSSIRUS 2,554 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    Donuts > Endtroducing.

    as a work of art; i agree. now influence? i don't know. the internet didn't really exist when endtorducing came out. jay dee def had a major impact on all those lil dude myspace beat makers. endtroducing jacked up the price on obscure texas 45's, so...

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,029 Posts
    Lumin said:

    yall realize that endtroducing eventually went platinum, right?

    According to what source? It's not in the RIAA database as even having gone gold.

  • akoako 3,409 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    Donuts > Endtroducing.

    complexity wise...no chance.

    but i definitely LISTEN to donuts a hell of a lot more than endtroducing...

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    DOR said:
    DocMcCoy said:
    DOR said:
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    You can still sample whatever you want.

    Yeah, Just ask Girl Talk.

    Don't ever expect to get a record deal or a publishing contract out of it, though. As soon as you try to actually sell that shit in quantity, you'll disappear under an avalanche of C&D notices.

    Maybe, but many times it's not just about money. Artist sue to stop the use to their music in others music and it's not a monetary thing. So why has no one hit him yet?

    I've seem him in interviews saying he's not too worried about getting sued. Maybe he's fine without posting big sales numbers (Tho, I'm guessing nobody really knows what sales are like for him). But it's not like his albums haven't made quite a bit of industry noise in the past. Feed the Animals was on both Time & Rolling Stone best album of the year list the year it came out.

    Don't labels/publishers/lawyers/etc usually tend to enjoy making examples of people who have a blatant disregard of what they believe is the law?

    Girl Talk is an extreme example.

    Plenty of producers are still getting paid and they are sampling. If you have a hit, clear your sample and go about your business. If you don't, then try again. Sampling for the art? What? And also getting paid? Where they do that at?

    Oh, you want to make some grand artistic statement utilizing your whole record collection?

    Even DJing, if you can command in the 4-figures (as I'm sure Shadow can) then what are you complaining about exactly? Do you need a car commercial? Well, go program some drums or whatever.

    I don't understand where this convo is going.... not even sure dude "fell off" per se.... most of the "reasons" are not well thought out

  • DocMcCoyDocMcCoy "Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,920 Posts
    Controller_7 said:
    Agree with Batmon. It just got to the point that I didn't really like the type of music I was hearing. I didn't want volume three of the same album, but there's no reason I have keep liking an artist if they started making music I don't like.

    And on that note, there's nothing wrong with saying you'd like more of what you like. It's silly to expect it, but no problem with wanting more.

    On the Portishead third album. To me, that was a great maturation for the band. It didn't grab me at first, but grew on me when I was ready.

    Shadows new album has some cool songs, but also some that are just not my taste. Who likes that metal song? It's impressive that he made it, but there are entry of good metal songs to listen to that aren't made by a man and a box. But as Harvey said, he can do whatever he wants and he should.

    One thing I did today as a result of this thread was to spend a few hours listening to his music, which I haven't done for a little while. Irrespective of changing tastes and suchlike, most of it's held up. I've always considered a lot of it to occupy a similar sphere to Pink Floyd - good, old-fashioned head music, but with a hip-hop dynamic. Fascinating as such things may be for borderline autistic music geeks, knowing the provenance of every sample neither heightens nor diminishes the listening experience, at least not for me. Like I said in my earlier post, he has a remarkable compositional ear when it comes to samples. It's different from the way, say, Pete Rock will layer a bunch of disparate sources to give his beats a distinct texture, or Premo will often pull a rhythm from out of a song's unlikeliest parts. But just like those guys, Shadow's best stuff has a recognisable musical personality and in his case it also works in conventional musical terms. You can argue about whether or not it's hip-hop (I think it is), and of course there's no end of people who'd insist that it isn't really music at all because he isn't playing anything. But like him or not, Shadow's made a significant contribution to an aesthetic that's shaped the way almost all popular music is made nowadays, and all the other stuff about whether it's sufficiently "true" or "real" is beside the point because he pretty much created his own lane.

    The Outsider actually sounds a lot better to me now than it did when it came out.

  • dayday 9,612 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:


    I don't understand where this convo is going.... not even sure dude "fell off" per se.... most of the "reasons" are not well thought out


    And that's the crux of this whole thing. He didn't fall off as much as turned a corner musically that a lot of people (myself included) don't really dig. I mean, dude just played Coachella and is signed to a major (whatever that means in 2012), but I would be hard pressed to say he fell off as in "no more career".

    Josh threads in 2012 someta

  • LoopDreamsLoopDreams 1,193 Posts
    [One thing I did today as a result of this thread was to spend a few hours listening to his music, which I haven't done for a little while. .

    Me too. Was bumping Product Placement in the truck today, good mix.

  • SPlDEYSPlDEY Vegas 3,184 Posts
    ako said:

    shadow never fell off. hes still doing what he loves. he "fell off" because you jerked off to endtroducing for 7 years, then when private press came out there wasnt "what does your soul look like part 13".

    As usual, you record nerds are over-analyzing and over-thinking this topic. That nigga shadow made some good music, and he made some bad shit. Whatever though.. He sold a bunch of fucking records.. So in my mind he's made his mark on the planet. He inspired a ton of people to dig for records. He's proven himself as an artist anything good at this point in his career is just cherries on top.

    The reality is: Most of you dudes sweated him for years, and a lot of you are still sweating him.

    Hell, people devote whole genres to the shit he was making.. Sampling laws definitely hurt his sound. I personally would've liked to see him transition from a solo artist/touring dj into a producer for other musicians. He's got a real brilliant ear for songwriting.

    The [email= album is to my ears his best shit.[/email]. I dug some of the shit off his new album too.

    He's still dope to me, and I mean.. I guess you can't be everything to everybody. No matter how good your shit is.

    Why don't you all just admit your eclectic nature evolved your taste in music?

    "Yeah, I was making little beat tapes and mixes when I was 13 years old. I love making music and I love listening to music, I???ve always felt that even if I cease to become relevant or I don???t have a forum to make the music the way I want to make it, which is time consuming, I could always just sit back and listen to the music other people have made and be happy. - Josh Davis"

    - spidey
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