1. He changed music, how we interact with technology, etc. Nuff respect.
2. He was a helluva manger and grew Apple ridiculous, i.e. You gotta respect the hustle; stuff like this basically:
Unherd said:
When you look at the trajectory since that article, and consider how dominant his company has become, you have to give the man credit. The numbers don't lie, and no matter which one of his employees came up with whichever idea, that dude steered the ship like no other.
The latter, IMO, is weak to me. Ellison grew Oracle pretty crazy; Milken is/was a sick investor; Icahn sure knows how to valuate a company; Welch can manage his ass off. etc. Sorry, these are not necessarily reasons to respect anyone on a personal level. I mean, it MAY be a reason, but it's not an obvious reason for many people.
And yeah, this kind of cheerleading IS kinda incongruent with the Wall Street protests cheerleading (not saying whoever posted this was also cheerleading in the Wall Street thread; just making a point.).
I gotta respect a dude for making his company successful, himself rich, and his shareholders rich? Why exactly?
Now you wanna talk about his contributions to music, tech, etc., that's another argument. Not hating.
I think this a false dichotomy, or at least a misreading of what I was trying to say. I can respect dudes business sense, his hustle, etc. Whatever. The point I was making is that while his business success might partly be a result of his management skills, it's more due to the products he released.
No amount of management, marketing, engineering or development can guarantee success, but the products Apple has released over the last 15 years were clearly cut from a different cloth than anything else out there, and he deserves all the credit in the world for bringing those products to market.
The vision and execution of him and his team is reflected in how popular those products have become, and how many industries they've disrupted. As I said, the products Apple released under Jobs were:
driven by a vision and dedication to user experience, which is rare in a world where almost everything you see and buy was designed by committee
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
neil_something said:
gareth said:
I'll add- the Zune did not change the world.
Last time I checked neither did the iPod.
Unless you consider getting people to buy things in a slightly different way "world changing"...
He's changed shopping as we know it.
As far as the music industry's concerned, getting people to buy anything at all represents a pretty big achievement. Jobs has had quite a bit to do with that in recent years.
This isn't meant to be read as me anointing him or nominating him for canonisation, by the way. As I've said on here on a number of occasions, Apple's effect on the music business hasn't been wholly benign, by any means. But I don't know how anyone could seriously deny it's been significant. And if you think that being able to carry 15,000 songs around with you in something smaller than a fag packet doesn't constitute having a profound effect upon the world - changing it, even - then I don't know what to say to you.
By the way, how many people do you know who don't own a digital music player of some description?
Unless you consider getting people to buy things in a slightly different way "world changing"...
He's changed shopping as we know it.
As far as the music industry's concerned, getting people to buy anything at all represents a pretty big achievement. Jobs has had quite a bit to do with that in recent years.
This isn't meant to be read as me anointing him or nominating him for canonisation, by the way. As I've said on here on a number of occasions, Apple's effect on the music business hasn't been wholly benign, by any means. But I don't know how anyone could seriously deny it's been significant. And if you think that being able to carry 15,000 songs around with you in something smaller than a fag packet doesn't constitute having a profound effect upon the world - changing it, even - then I don't know what to say to you.
By the way, how many people do you know who don't own a digital music player of some description?
Apple didn't invent the portable digital music player.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
A lot of people showing their arses in this thread.
On a semi-related note, check out people's reaction to the release of the OG ipod. This is on an Apple fanboys message board too. Say what you want about Jobs, he definitely had a better feel for what people would want than people do themselves:
I was just watching a documentary about Koolhaas.
One of the first things he says is how ridicules the notion of one architect designing a large building is.
Design is done by teams.
Which reminds me of a Barry Gordy story.
One of the attacks on Gordy is his, putting his name on songs he didn't write.
He would walk into a recording session, listen for a bit, make a suggestion such as "move to a minor key in the bridge", walk out and put his name in the credits.
But what HDH (who have no love for the man) and others will tell you is that his suggestions always improved the song.
But those little song changes were not what made Gordy great. A visionary. A world changer. It was his ability to put together the right teams and successful take their product to market. Fortune couldn't do it, Wheelsville couldn't do it. Your favorite funk 45 label couldn't do it.
Not sure what any of that has to do with Steve Jobs, so I will say again, RIP.
And yeah, this kind of cheerleading IS kinda incongruent with the Wall Street protests cheerleading (not saying whoever posted this was also cheerleading in the Wall Street thread; just making a point.).
A salient point. OWS might hurt AAPL, which is bought up by "creative, free thinking" types all over the developed world. The profits closely linked to the production methods in Southeast Asia.
I am definitely in meh camp. Yes, I have never owned an Apple product. But I am a web developer and I have to say that before iProducts, computers, to me and most of the people who used them, were machines for making money. Now they are machines for self-expression. A) I don't want to hear 99.999999999% of it, and B) now some people cannot express themselves without such mechanical crutches. They certainly have not made the world more well informed or free.
PS: Soulstrut ruined my life, etc.
PPS: We Need A New Internet. But that is a whole nother topic.
Geez, even after I posted the LOL iPhone 4S thread the other day I didn't even bother acting an ass in this thread like some of you people. Let shit breathe and start up a "DISCUSS STEVE JOBS' LEGACY" thread in a week or some shit. Jesus.
Wozniak: I think Steve Jobs will be recognized as the great technology hero, visionary???in my own opinion, it was that he was able to take a company that had the benefits of Apple, which is a large number of people that used a lot of their products, except to take that and basically run a business in a way that would not lose money, that would have great exciting products, that would inspire the world and make people feel differently about technology.
But you have the emotional impact as well as the functional. [Not only] how I can use my device, how it really makes me feel more about myself as a person, and lets me do the things that humans want to do.
And the products were one after another after another just kind of beautiful examples of a perfect company.
Basically, from the time Steve left Apple to the time Steve came back, he really became an outstanding business manager, able to...trust people who thought well. And not just those who could maybe design products, but those who could design products and have a feel about what to make them a little more special, to have a little more meaning to the users.
The thing with Jobs was, he was probably more involved with every aspect of his company than any other CEO of a massive company. He was a massive control freak. There was probably very little he wasn't involved with.
Mossberg talks about a conversation he once had with Jobs about opening up Apple retail stores.
"I teased him by asking if he, personally, despite his hard duties as CEO, had approved tiny details like the translucency of the glass and the color of the wood. He said he had, of course."
That's not to say he didn't have the best design teams available and amazing people working for him mind you.
The last 10 seconds of this interview kinda put a lump in my throat.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Otis_Funkmeyer said:
DocMcCoy said:
neil_something said:
gareth said:
I'll add- the Zune did not change the world.
Last time I checked neither did the iPod.
Unless you consider getting people to buy things in a slightly different way "world changing"...
He's changed shopping as we know it.
As far as the music industry's concerned, getting people to buy anything at all represents a pretty big achievement. Jobs has had quite a bit to do with that in recent years.
This isn't meant to be read as me anointing him or nominating him for canonisation, by the way. As I've said on here on a number of occasions, Apple's effect on the music business hasn't been wholly benign, by any means. But I don't know how anyone could seriously deny it's been significant. And if you think that being able to carry 15,000 songs around with you in something smaller than a fag packet doesn't constitute having a profound effect upon the world - changing it, even - then I don't know what to say to you.
By the way, how many people do you know who don't own a digital music player of some description?
Apple didn't invent the portable digital music player.
OK, let me put it another way - how many people do you know who still rock a Diamond Rio?
Over the last few days, I've read plenty of people insisting that the success of the iPod is solely a triumph of marketing, which is a massive over-simplification. If somebody wants to argue that Apple's insistence on clinging to clunky proprietary software undermines the whole "user experience" aspect, then I'm right behind them, but most people don't care about that. Whether or not Apple invented the digital music player is irrelevant - what matters here is that they made it into something people felt they couldn't do without, and Jobs had a huge amount to do with that. Moreover, not only did it change millions of people's relationship with music, it also got people buying music again which, as Thes pointed out, ought to be kind of significant on a music-related forum.
I still own my Apple IIc with all my games and shit on floppy disc.
Ever mess with Rocky's Boot or Gertrude's Secret?
Never heard of it. I put it too many hours on Wizardry RPG and Dr. J vs Larry Bird w/ the wack ass Apple Joystick.
Unless you consider getting people to buy things in a slightly different way "world changing"...
He's changed shopping as we know it.
As far as the music industry's concerned, getting people to buy anything at all represents a pretty big achievement. Jobs has had quite a bit to do with that in recent years.
This isn't meant to be read as me anointing him or nominating him for canonisation, by the way. As I've said on here on a number of occasions, Apple's effect on the music business hasn't been wholly benign, by any means. But I don't know how anyone could seriously deny it's been significant. And if you think that being able to carry 15,000 songs around with you in something smaller than a fag packet doesn't constitute having a profound effect upon the world - changing it, even - then I don't know what to say to you.
By the way, how many people do you know who don't own a digital music player of some description?
Apple didn't invent the portable digital music player.
OK, let me put it another way - how many people do you know who still rock a Diamond Rio?
Over the last few days, I've read plenty of people insisting that the success of the iPod is solely a triumph of marketing, which is a massive over-simplification. If somebody wants to argue that Apple's insistence on clinging to clunky proprietary software undermines the whole "user experience" aspect, then I'm right behind them, but most people don't care about that. Whether or not Apple invented the digital music player is irrelevant - what matters here is that they made it into something people felt they couldn't do without, and Jobs had a huge amount to do with that. Moreover, not only did it change millions of people's relationship with music, it also got people buying music again which, as Thes pointed out, ought to be kind of significant on a music-related forum.
This.
Apple may not have changed the world or even my world but they changed the music business for sure. They didn't invent mp3 players, legitimate music downloads or the idea of having a digital music player on your phone, either. But they did it better and more beautifully and more seamlessly than anyone else, creating an incredible business model and brand in the process. I've been working in digital music industry since before the ipod was born and it feels like were still in our infancy despite the pace of innovation. Who knows where Apple will be in 10 years but right now their influence is tangible in almost every area of music and technology.
Comments
I think this a false dichotomy, or at least a misreading of what I was trying to say. I can respect dudes business sense, his hustle, etc. Whatever. The point I was making is that while his business success might partly be a result of his management skills, it's more due to the products he released.
No amount of management, marketing, engineering or development can guarantee success, but the products Apple has released over the last 15 years were clearly cut from a different cloth than anything else out there, and he deserves all the credit in the world for bringing those products to market.
The vision and execution of him and his team is reflected in how popular those products have become, and how many industries they've disrupted. As I said, the products Apple released under Jobs were:
But yeah, he got that paper too.
Are you posting from an iPhone?
Nope. I dont like Apple products, personally.
Classy.
As far as the music industry's concerned, getting people to buy anything at all represents a pretty big achievement. Jobs has had quite a bit to do with that in recent years.
This isn't meant to be read as me anointing him or nominating him for canonisation, by the way. As I've said on here on a number of occasions, Apple's effect on the music business hasn't been wholly benign, by any means. But I don't know how anyone could seriously deny it's been significant. And if you think that being able to carry 15,000 songs around with you in something smaller than a fag packet doesn't constitute having a profound effect upon the world - changing it, even - then I don't know what to say to you.
By the way, how many people do you know who don't own a digital music player of some description?
Apple didn't invent the portable digital music player.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500
One of the first things he says is how ridicules the notion of one architect designing a large building is.
Design is done by teams.
Which reminds me of a Barry Gordy story.
One of the attacks on Gordy is his, putting his name on songs he didn't write.
He would walk into a recording session, listen for a bit, make a suggestion such as "move to a minor key in the bridge", walk out and put his name in the credits.
But what HDH (who have no love for the man) and others will tell you is that his suggestions always improved the song.
But those little song changes were not what made Gordy great. A visionary. A world changer. It was his ability to put together the right teams and successful take their product to market. Fortune couldn't do it, Wheelsville couldn't do it. Your favorite funk 45 label couldn't do it.
Not sure what any of that has to do with Steve Jobs, so I will say again, RIP.
A salient point. OWS might hurt AAPL, which is bought up by "creative, free thinking" types all over the developed world. The profits closely linked to the production methods in Southeast Asia.
I am definitely in meh camp. Yes, I have never owned an Apple product. But I am a web developer and I have to say that before iProducts, computers, to me and most of the people who used them, were machines for making money. Now they are machines for self-expression. A) I don't want to hear 99.999999999% of it, and B) now some people cannot express themselves without such mechanical crutches. They certainly have not made the world more well informed or free.
PS: Soulstrut ruined my life, etc.
PPS: We Need A New Internet. But that is a whole nother topic.
Joking.
Your post showed up four times in two different forms.
RIP.
Excellent point.
- spidey
The thing with Jobs was, he was probably more involved with every aspect of his company than any other CEO of a massive company. He was a massive control freak. There was probably very little he wasn't involved with.
Mossberg talks about a conversation he once had with Jobs about opening up Apple retail stores.
"I teased him by asking if he, personally, despite his hard duties as CEO, had approved tiny details like the translucency of the glass and the color of the wood. He said he had, of course."
That's not to say he didn't have the best design teams available and amazing people working for him mind you.
The last 10 seconds of this interview kinda put a lump in my throat.
Edit: Never mind. Not worth it.
OK, let me put it another way - how many people do you know who still rock a Diamond Rio?
Over the last few days, I've read plenty of people insisting that the success of the iPod is solely a triumph of marketing, which is a massive over-simplification. If somebody wants to argue that Apple's insistence on clinging to clunky proprietary software undermines the whole "user experience" aspect, then I'm right behind them, but most people don't care about that. Whether or not Apple invented the digital music player is irrelevant - what matters here is that they made it into something people felt they couldn't do without, and Jobs had a huge amount to do with that. Moreover, not only did it change millions of people's relationship with music, it also got people buying music again which, as Thes pointed out, ought to be kind of significant on a music-related forum.
I wonder what will happen with his gross fortune? Probably nothing helpful to anyone but his dead self.
Here's to many more years of disposable piece of shit consumer goods for Westerners!
I for one welcome our new corporate overlords!
RIP Steve Jobs - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382396/Workers-Chinese-Apple-factories-forced-sign-pledges-commit-suicide.html
i can understand the easy hatt, but im sure his will has money going to some sort of cancer research and other decent causes despite the evil shit.
I still own my Apple IIc with all my games and shit on floppy disc.
Ever mess with Rocky's Boot or Gertrude's Secret?
Ever mess with Rocky's Boot or Gertrude's Secret?
Never heard of it. I put it too many hours on Wizardry RPG and Dr. J vs Larry Bird w/ the wack ass Apple Joystick.
This.
Apple may not have changed the world or even my world but they changed the music business for sure. They didn't invent mp3 players, legitimate music downloads or the idea of having a digital music player on your phone, either. But they did it better and more beautifully and more seamlessly than anyone else, creating an incredible business model and brand in the process. I've been working in digital music industry since before the ipod was born and it feels like were still in our infancy despite the pace of innovation. Who knows where Apple will be in 10 years but right now their influence is tangible in almost every area of music and technology.
As for Macs...
sheeeeeet........
OG
this thread is unintentionally hilarious
All I know is- I carry a laptop in my pocket. That is world changing.