I think you've convinced me. So what does the MPC2000XL offers that the Maschine + Ableton does not (except different sound quality and not needing to have a computer)? Is the Maschine as good as the MPC2000XL when it comes to chopping breaks? You can layer drum sounds right? Combining different snares, kicks etc? Is it something that the MPC does better?
I think you've convinced me. So what does the MPC2000XL offers that the Maschine + Ableton does not (except different sound quality and not needing to have a computer)? Is the Maschine as good as the MPC2000XL when it comes to chopping breaks? You can layer drum sounds right? Combining different snares, kicks etc? Is it something that the MPC does better?
i know a couple of people that took the plunge with maschine and got fed up with it and it's now a dust collector. having used an mpc2000 for years and now an ableton user for the last 3 years i would say that it is easily the fastest thing out there. there are things i wish it would do but for the most part it does everything i need. layering drums is a snap. you can assign each drum hit to the same midi note within a drum rack and it will trigger them at the same time from one pad/key on your midi controller.
1) In another post Spelunk talked about the terrible file structure that Maschine insists that you use. Is this easy to avoid if you sample in Ableton, create your own folders (one for drum breaks, one for bass loops etc.) there, and then browse through them in ableton before choosing which samples to record into Maschine (like this guy does here)? In a way using Abeton as a connection between the turntable (the audio source) and Maschine (the "MPC"). It would of course be easier if Maschine allowed you to create any file structure you want, but if you can use Ableton as your sample library this problem is easy to avoid, no? Or does the problem with the file structure lie elsewhere? It is important to me that it will work reasonably well with a large sample library that I have created my self, with my own folder structure.
2) Does it require a very strong computer? NI's site says it require Mac OS X 10.6 (latest update) or 10.7, Intel Core Duo, 2 GB RAM. I have a Macbook from 2006 (Core Duo, not Core 2 Duo) which matches these requirements exactly. It runs Ableton Live 8 smooth. This means that Maschine will run smoothly too right? I would hate to buy Maschine for then to discover that I must buy a new computer because it requires a computer with top end hardware.
after years of mpc2000, then logic, then ableton, it seems to me that maschine is long winded.
i would seriously just give a demo of ableton a shot and see what you think.
i have my sample library all set up the way i like it and it can be accessed via the left side bar.
if you ever wanna record a new sample into your library, it's as easy as recording it into a session clip and then dragging it into the side bar folder that you want it to go into.
I've had Ableton for years, but not used it for making beats cause just using the mouse/keyboard isn't inspiring. For managing a sample library (I record samples into the arrangement view, and then add the samples to my folder structure), rearrange different parts of a recorded beat, add effects, make mixes of my beats etc. its very nice. I had hoped that Maschine would be the next step that allowed me to integrate the beat making more seamlessly with Ableton (and utilize more of Abletons strenghts+using my SP1200 just as a sound module), instead of what I do now, which is making the beat on the MPC/SP and then recording it into Ableton. If what you are saying is that Maschine slows down this process, maybe I'm better of repairing my MPC/SP?
if you hate using mouse/keyboard then i wouldn't mess with maschine at all. sounds like your onto a good thing already. dedicated sampler/sequencers and then worrying about tracking into a computer later.
I've been usign ableton since v1.5 or soemthin foolsih like that.. that said i bought a maschine last year and its been a MINBLOWER.
A few things to keep in mind. NI has been incredibly good about continually updating the product with new FREE versions.. that actually add useful feature / fix bugs etc. They now have a maschine micro version controller (smaller and stripped down) and a pretty cool lookin iMaschine for ipad / iphone. They???ve basically REPLACED their old sample library / player and decided that Maschine is now the centerpiece of the ???sampling??? so they gave out like all the Kore samples (a few gigs worth) for free last month. Anyhow its only gonna continue to get more pimped out as its now the CENTERPIECE of their whole sampling product range.
Now with that said there are some caveats. On paper Nis file browser seems awesome, and their interfaces always look good.. but I always find them unintuitive/ hassle prone compared to ableton. Actually laying tracks out in the maschine editor / window is just a head scratcher for me??? limited, clunky, annoying. I record EVERYTHING from the maschine as midi data on separate trax in ableton. This triggers the pads in maschine.. hit the pads record it in ableton.. Very simple 2 way operation. And I can use maschine to quickly scroll thru sounds in the library .. edit the notes in an environment I???m more comfortable with. I completely ignor the maschine editor and patterns / scene and all that BS so I can???t comment on using it as a ???standalone??? music production tool.
So you use the Maschine for chopping/slicing/editing/layering samples, and then you do all the sequencing in Ableton? Like in this video? Judging by this video it looks like he has his samples in folders which he explores with Ableton, for then sampling it into Maschine for chopping etc, for then recording it back to Ableton and let Ableton take care of all the sequencing. Like Ableton --> Maschine --> Ableton. That is a kind of work flow I would like, if it works seamlessly. I don't mind using the mouse + keyboard, but for the main editing and chopping of samples + triggering of them, I want a MPC-like solution where I can "play" more, and not just point and click.
Or do you use the Maschine just as a midi controller? Controlling Ableton with Maschine without actually using Maschine for anything else than its pads and knobs, bypassing its software (kind of). If its software is that useless, its much cheaper with a pure midi controller...
i use maschine for its library.. so all the browsing i do thru the maschine CONTROLLER - i actually like this interface. I have added my own libraries to it as well.. and I just let maschine DEAL with them.. fighting the library structure would be a waste of time for me. I don???t have like loop libraries or things like bass lines and what not.. its just drum machine hits and one shots.
Any sample editing I do within the maschine controller as well ??? again no mouse no computer screen..
I don???t really ???sample??? per se. I really use maschine as a UBER drum / machine programmer. The kind of sampling I do would be to sit at the synth or Rhodes..play some chords.. I record this directly into ableton ??? to keep the sample relative to the ableton project ??? then I resample it to the maschine??? slice it to pads and replay on machine ??? recording this midi data in ableton.
The main reason i use the midi data in ableton is that its RELATIVE to my timeline and im just FASTER working in ableotn than the maschine editor.
Maschine also has drag and drop for both midi and audio. So you could sample DIRECTLY into the maschine??? drag the audio out to an ableton track..compile your set to keep a copy of the sample In your ableton folder.. and then just move back to the maschine. You can also record patterns in the maschine and then drag the ENTIRE pattern over to an ableton midi track. VERY fast. And with the iMAschine you could be working on a beat on the go and then drag the pattern straight into your abelton session when you get back to the lab!
If you are doin a lot of sampling and chopping you will like it.. you NEVER need to look at the computer or use the mouse.. you adjust all the start end point / slicing on the controller using the LCD and the knobs.. its FAST.
What I???m doing could PERHAPS be replaced with just a usb pad thing FOR SURE.. but at the end of the day I actually USE the library, i like the sample editor / control, and the hardware is VERY nice.
As the product evolves ??? now has vst intergration so you can run vsts IN maschine .. I can see them fine tuning and improving the sequence / pattern editor A LOT.
the other thing i should mention is that prior to the maschine i was really using the impulse in ableton for all my drums.. For whatever reason the drum racks concept never floated my boat, so perhaps i never dove far enough in with drum programing within ableton...
its cool for certain things as a stand alone all in one for simple stuff.... its even better with the drag n drop >> dump into what ever program you use.
i love how quick you can flip shit, but dont like the grid set up. you cant zoom in on the grid as a wav and slice if needed.
bang for the buck for sure.
according the native instrumentsemail/web bombardment, they have just released the 'maschine mikro'.
looks like a smaller more travel friendly version.
Comments
i know a couple of people that took the plunge with maschine and got fed up with it and it's now a dust collector. having used an mpc2000 for years and now an ableton user for the last 3 years i would say that it is easily the fastest thing out there. there are things i wish it would do but for the most part it does everything i need. layering drums is a snap. you can assign each drum hit to the same midi note within a drum rack and it will trigger them at the same time from one pad/key on your midi controller.
1) In another post Spelunk talked about the terrible file structure that Maschine insists that you use. Is this easy to avoid if you sample in Ableton, create your own folders (one for drum breaks, one for bass loops etc.) there, and then browse through them in ableton before choosing which samples to record into Maschine (like this guy does here)? In a way using Abeton as a connection between the turntable (the audio source) and Maschine (the "MPC"). It would of course be easier if Maschine allowed you to create any file structure you want, but if you can use Ableton as your sample library this problem is easy to avoid, no? Or does the problem with the file structure lie elsewhere? It is important to me that it will work reasonably well with a large sample library that I have created my self, with my own folder structure.
2) Does it require a very strong computer? NI's site says it require Mac OS X 10.6 (latest update) or 10.7, Intel Core Duo, 2 GB RAM. I have a Macbook from 2006 (Core Duo, not Core 2 Duo) which matches these requirements exactly. It runs Ableton Live 8 smooth. This means that Maschine will run smoothly too right? I would hate to buy Maschine for then to discover that I must buy a new computer because it requires a computer with top end hardware.
Cheers!
i would seriously just give a demo of ableton a shot and see what you think.
i have my sample library all set up the way i like it and it can be accessed via the left side bar.
if you ever wanna record a new sample into your library, it's as easy as recording it into a session clip and then dragging it into the side bar folder that you want it to go into.
super fast!
A few things to keep in mind. NI has been incredibly good about continually updating the product with new FREE versions.. that actually add useful feature / fix bugs etc. They now have a maschine micro version controller (smaller and stripped down) and a pretty cool lookin iMaschine for ipad / iphone. They???ve basically REPLACED their old sample library / player and decided that Maschine is now the centerpiece of the ???sampling??? so they gave out like all the Kore samples (a few gigs worth) for free last month. Anyhow its only gonna continue to get more pimped out as its now the CENTERPIECE of their whole sampling product range.
Now with that said there are some caveats. On paper Nis file browser seems awesome, and their interfaces always look good.. but I always find them unintuitive/ hassle prone compared to ableton. Actually laying tracks out in the maschine editor / window is just a head scratcher for me??? limited, clunky, annoying. I record EVERYTHING from the maschine as midi data on separate trax in ableton. This triggers the pads in maschine.. hit the pads record it in ableton.. Very simple 2 way operation. And I can use maschine to quickly scroll thru sounds in the library .. edit the notes in an environment I???m more comfortable with. I completely ignor the maschine editor and patterns / scene and all that BS so I can???t comment on using it as a ???standalone??? music production tool.
Or do you use the Maschine just as a midi controller? Controlling Ableton with Maschine without actually using Maschine for anything else than its pads and knobs, bypassing its software (kind of). If its software is that useless, its much cheaper with a pure midi controller...
Any sample editing I do within the maschine controller as well ??? again no mouse no computer screen..
I don???t really ???sample??? per se. I really use maschine as a UBER drum / machine programmer. The kind of sampling I do would be to sit at the synth or Rhodes..play some chords.. I record this directly into ableton ??? to keep the sample relative to the ableton project ??? then I resample it to the maschine??? slice it to pads and replay on machine ??? recording this midi data in ableton.
The main reason i use the midi data in ableton is that its RELATIVE to my timeline and im just FASTER working in ableotn than the maschine editor.
Maschine also has drag and drop for both midi and audio. So you could sample DIRECTLY into the maschine??? drag the audio out to an ableton track..compile your set to keep a copy of the sample In your ableton folder.. and then just move back to the maschine. You can also record patterns in the maschine and then drag the ENTIRE pattern over to an ableton midi track. VERY fast. And with the iMAschine you could be working on a beat on the go and then drag the pattern straight into your abelton session when you get back to the lab!
If you are doin a lot of sampling and chopping you will like it.. you NEVER need to look at the computer or use the mouse.. you adjust all the start end point / slicing on the controller using the LCD and the knobs.. its FAST.
What I???m doing could PERHAPS be replaced with just a usb pad thing FOR SURE.. but at the end of the day I actually USE the library, i like the sample editor / control, and the hardware is VERY nice.
As the product evolves ??? now has vst intergration so you can run vsts IN maschine .. I can see them fine tuning and improving the sequence / pattern editor A LOT.
i love how quick you can flip shit, but dont like the grid set up. you cant zoom in on the grid as a wav and slice if needed.
bang for the buck for sure.
looks like a smaller more travel friendly version.