Status Of Your Local Record Convention/Show

esskayesskay 221 Posts
edited July 2011 in Strut Central
Just wanted to get feedback from the sellers & buyers out there on the status of your local record convention & /or show. We all know buyers have fallen off because of Serato, bad economy, dealers putting good stuff on Ebay, etc. Lately the only thing that makes selling worthwhile for me is one strong customer & Japanese customers-most of the other clientele are pretty much lookey loos. I help my friend promote his show but also people just don't come like they used to. Also sold for the first time @ Austin @ spring show & was not that impressed w/variety of music-Is WFMU just the better show. Thoughts on your town? Thanx.
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  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Record shows are strong in the Pacific Northwest.
    True most people don't bring out a lot of high dollar stuff any more, but out here, most people never bought a lot of high dollar stuff.

    One reason record shows and stores do well out here is that most stores and sellers realize that most buyers are looking for records to listen to and not collectibles. So most records are reasonably priced.

    The Eugene show has about 100 tables and packs in the buyers. Sellers and buyers leave happy.

    The Night Owl Record Show is perhaps the greatest record show ever. Next show is October 15th. I am not in impartial observer, 3 other strutters and I started the show.

    The other Oregon show is in Camby and I have not been for years.

    There is a 45 & 78 show in Tacoma. Low key affair with crusty guys and a few young folks looking to flip or dj soul 45s.

    There is an Olympia show getting off the ground that is patterned after the Night Owl.

    Seattle is a whole other story. There are 6-10 shows a year in Seattle, more than can be sustained. The cost of living is high and the city seems to lack the vinyl culture that is strong in Portland and in Eugene. Seattle is much larger than Portland but has a lot fewer vinyl record stores.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Ebay changed the Record Convention game for good.

    Why would someone spend time and money to travel to a Record Show to buy records at Ebay prices?

    If you want to do well at a Record Show in 2011 either bring good clean cheap titles or collectibles at 1/2 of ebay rates.

    Flipping through crates at a Record Show with high end plus Popsike prices makes my head explode.

  • mrmatthewmrmatthew 1,575 Posts
    We've got one that comes through town (Denver) twice a year and i only go the one in the Fall.
    No reason to hit both of them anymore. Its been the same 30 dealers for the past 5 years selling what seems like the same old non-raers.
    Attendance has remained pretty steady for the past few years, but there were some LEAN shows back about 3 years ago.

  • The_Hook_UpThe_Hook_Up 8,182 Posts
    There was a record show in Memphis for the first time in a while back in May. It went alright for the first go. With a half dozen to ten more good dealers, it would be a great show...hopefully it will take off. Strange that a city like Memphis with 3 solid record stores, lots of vinyl buying folks, and deep music history that we don't have an established show. Oh well.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Question for record dealers....

    How much do you have to do in sales at a record convention for you to consider it a success??

  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    price of the table + $100.

  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    Ebay changed the Record Convention game for good.

    Why would someone spend time and money to travel to a Record Show to buy records at Ebay prices?

    If you want to do well at a Record Show in 2011 either bring good clean cheap titles or collectibles at 1/2 of ebay rates.

    Flipping through crates at a Record Show with high end plus Popsike prices makes my head explode.
    this is the thing, people complain about perceived lack of international buyers, but seriously, why would I fly halfway around the world to buy records at the same or more expensive prices that I can get sitting on my couch off ebay? I want incentives to book those flights goddammit.

  • mrmatthewmrmatthew 1,575 Posts
    holmes said:
    Rockadelic said:
    Ebay changed the Record Convention game for good.

    Why would someone spend time and money to travel to a Record Show to buy records at Ebay prices?

    If you want to do well at a Record Show in 2011 either bring good clean cheap titles or collectibles at 1/2 of ebay rates.

    Flipping through crates at a Record Show with high end plus Popsike prices makes my head explode.
    this is the thing, people complain about perceived lack of international buyers, but seriously, why would I fly halfway around the world to buy records at the same or more expensive prices that I can get sitting on my couch off ebay? I want incentives to book those flights goddammit.

    Crusty old record dealers should be pitching in for hotel room comps and escorts!

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Here's my take on the history of Record Shows having been attending as a seller and buyer for 30 years.

    It's pretty much always been that the money spent at a Record Show has been 25% collector who are filing their purchases and 75% dealers that are gripping and flipping.

    Pre-Internet these dealers were U.S. store owners and catalog dealers who knew their clientele well and knew what they could flip for a profit and foreign dealers who could mark up their purchases 10X when they got home.

    In the late 90's ebay changed the game and dealers began to realize that the weird and "crappy" records they were selling for five bucks were going for $100+ in japan and Europe.

    This was the peak of the record game for these dealers as they used ebay to cut out the middle man and realized top dollar for their records.

    Those who didn't catch on to this were left in the dust to fade away with their $50 Badfinger LP's and $100 Nazz red wax crapola.

    But this also meant that 75% of the money spent at Record Shows disappeared.

    Dealers could no longer afford to fly in for a show like ARC and pay Popsike prices so the shows began to die.

    Record stores who once relied on "secret" or "private" customers also died as these customers no longer needed the store owner to go out and find rare records...they could do it themselves on the Internet.

    The game evolved and those who didn't recognize and adapt became extinct.

    Make no mistake, there is still good money to be made in selling records, it's just done differently now than 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

    And from a personal perspective, the only thing worse than the "crusty" dude who still lives in 1975 is the young Timmy Dig-A-Lot who thinks by virtue of having access to the internet they have the record game on lock.....I have no use for either other than to exploit their ignorance for cash in my pocket.

  • El PrezEl Prez NE Ohio 1,141 Posts
    Everything that Rockadelic said in both of his posts +1

  • tokyobeatstokyobeats 505 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    I have the record game on lock.....

    yes, you do

  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    the young Timmy Dig-A-Lot who thinks by virtue of having access to the internet they have the record game on lock
    i wish i had the record game on lock!

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    holmes said:
    Rockadelic said:
    the young Timmy Dig-A-Lot who thinks by virtue of having access to the internet they have the record game on lock
    i wish i had the record game on lock!

    There are a few people I've met in my life who do......very few.......and I'm not one of them.

  • esskayesskay 221 Posts
    Roc is right but a few other factors. Another thing that killed the game starting 10 years ago was reissues. The average joe customer just wants the music so for $8 to $15 can buy pretty much any record he wants @ Amoeba, Amazon, Dusty Groove, etc. In terms of foreign buyers/shops the European ones dropped off/closed down 10 years go (London used to have so many shops back in the day)-I never see my old customers f/the UK, Sweden, The Netherlands, Spain, France, etc anymore-maybe once every 2 years-one customer f/Germany comes once to twice a year-honestly that's it. Also w/the Japanese guys we got spoiled selling them Nancy Ames "Latin Pulse"-"Spiced With Brasil", Patrice Rushen "Straight From The Heart", & Jackson 5 "ABC" LPs for $10-$15 plus it's a fickle market-talk to the clothes guys who used to sell Levi redlines, rock tee's, & air jordans back in the days-that is over also-the market got oversaturated there w/recs-it's now gone the way of more obscure raers, private press things, etc. Young old man here dropping knowledge-lets hear more people.

  • holmesholmes 3,532 Posts
    i think you may be giving reissues a bit much credit, there's always been reissues. i may be off-base with that thinking though.

  • esskayesskay 221 Posts
    There's been reissues in other countries besides the US for a long time-reissues in mass only really starting taking on prominence 10 to 12 years ago-when we used to buy reissues of funk/jazz things (J.B.'s, Prestige, etc) in the lat 90's/early 00's they were all f/all f/Japan & UK (BGP), etc & only certain stores had them here in Cali like Groove Merchant, etc. Rock titles like Beatles, Velvet Underground, etc have always been reissued but soul/funk/jazz/latin/brazilian/etc things came much later here in the states.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Around 1990 there was almost no vinyl pressed.

    Surprisingly, Columbia (owned by Sony co-inventor of the cd) kept a lot of vinyl in print, Miles Davis, Bob Dylan, Sly & FS and Robert Johnson and other good stuff.

    But in terms of groovy soul jazz there was not much in print on vinyl.

    But then those James Brown things came out and it started snowballing to the point where BT Express records are even back in print these days.
    That along with Serrato and the death of original vinyl dj culture, has meant a decrease in the value of a lot of records.

    All that has little to do with the state of record shows.
    What makes shows like Eugene so good is that 75% of sales goes to collectors (or just music lovers) who are filing their purchases and only 25% to dealers who are looking to grip and flip. Those of us who get there before dawn and watch a few tables get mobbed and stripped might think that it is all dealers, but it aint. And as amazing as it is to see that kind of shark feed, it is the steady sales through the day that amounts to most sales, not the early morning sharks.

  • spelunkspelunk 3,400 Posts
    Were everyone economically rational individuals, record shows would still be wildly successful, perhaps even more so than before given the bigger margins, new "vinyl resurgance" buyers, etc.

    The issue is pricing records.

    At a record show people accept cash, which in practice always means people arent reporting that money to the IRS - save you more or less 10% depending on your income and tax rate.

    Then you're not paying fees to ebay/paypal/discogs. Another 10%.

    Then you save dozens of hours listing/shipping. How much is that time worth? Better be at least 10-20%.

    So if every seller acted rationally, their records would be priced at 50-60% of the usual online price. Great deal for collectors, and enough of a resale margin for dealers, depending on their focus.

    It's pretty clear to me at this point that unless you have a strong business and following selling records online, its simply a more economically rational decision to:

    1) consign records to a physical store or online seller
    2) sell them at a discount at a record show.

    The way of going to a record show and seeing titles that a dealer just hauled in from a collection that fell in their lap, where everything is $5? It's over, but that expectation isn't.

    Most often though what i see is a huge glut of common VG records for 3-5 dollars. There is an enormous glut, at least here on the west coast, of just middling quality and condition stuff that everyone wants to get rid of because no one has space. Im talking dudes with three car garages filled with it. This is what really drags things down, but we're all guilty of wanting to get rid of that stuff because when it does sell, its basically free money.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    spelunk said:


    At a record show people accept cash, which in practice always means people arent reporting that money to the IRS

    Not everyone.

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    I am not mad at shows, but I am mad at POORLY PROMOTED SHOWS.
    6 dealers and like 50 people? GTFOH, it's not a club event.

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    Also parking. CHOOSE A VENUE THAT HAS PARKING, unless it's like NYC or Chicago. Get your head outta your fucking ass. Shows are chapping my ass lately, because I have so much stuff to sell and either the shows in my area are badly promoted or scheduling conflict. Additionally, there seems to be a trend that people have shows all on the same date. Really? See when other people are doing one, then do it not then, not hard.
    I'm mad doggie.

  • BurnsBurns 2,227 Posts
    Produced 2 shows this year.

    I wanted a different show than the typical crust - pro 40s Beatles/ rock schitt show that is put on and is impossible to find a disco 12 or rap raer. I'm not looking at you Bass Fever.

    First one was off the chart - cold weather, awesome part of town, weirrd venue, and different dealers made for a fun time, DJ's, cold beer

    Second was asi asi - same dealers sans local cool dudes with wierd raers, hot dog street vendor, DJ's, awesome art venue, with poor turnout, Memorial weekend - not a good weekend for a show.

    Up in the air if I'll do it again, I want different dealers though, my tables are super cheap, and I promote.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    The_Non said:
    Also parking. CHOOSE A VENUE THAT HAS PARKING, unless it's like NYC or Chicago. Get your head outta your fucking ass. Shows are chapping my ass lately, because I have so much stuff to sell and either the shows in my area are badly promoted or scheduling conflict. Additionally, there seems to be a trend that people have shows all on the same date. Really? See when other people are doing one, then do it not then, not hard.
    I'm mad doggie.

    I hear you.
    But when it comes to conflicts, get used to it. If you are in a metro area other things are going to be happening that weekend. Of course if it is on Easter Sunday, or Super Bowl Sunday or the same day as another show then there was a screw up. They happen too.

    Which brings us to this complaint, "People didn't come out because (Pick one; rain, sunshine, too cold, too hot)".

  • YNOTYNOT in a studio apt mixing tuna with the ramen 417 Posts
    Personally I can only speak from a consumer standpoint and I really enjoy our local record show (central Florida). I really look forward to the occasional Sunday spent in crusty old nerd land. My budget is typically blown at these shows but overall prices are lower then I'd find at the few shops left. Most of the time my dollars get spent with the same dealers from South Florida who bring the goods. There are defiantly some odd balls that price their records way to high, however there's also some that fall through the cracks. If you search the dollar bins diligently you can come up. Occasionally I'll even ball out on a rare joint as I see the listed prices as high negotiation starter points. Prefer doing this rather then online due to being able to see/ hear the record. My only gripe is some of the anal retentive dealers who have personality disorders I'd rather not deal with. Some shows are better then others but for the most part I leave them consistently happy/broke. Nothing like a Sunday afternoon posted up listening to the days finds.

  • YNOTYNOT in a studio apt mixing tuna with the ramen 417 Posts
    opps double post.

  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    me in the same thread on Waxidermy said:
    D.I.Y.

  • tuneuptuneup 586 Posts
    I truly believe that the overall dissatisfaction with ebay by both sellers and buyers is resulting in better sales at record shows again, and that the numbers are on the rise. I can again sell mid level records for close to a reasonable global price. This has not been the case for the last 7 years or so. High priced items are still best sold on ebay, but this is not much different than saving your records for the major shows and not for smaller local shows. I now save killer records for WFMU, and am doing more so all the time. The show that I promote here in Toronto in very successful with a great turn out, and they very much come to buy. No tire kicking, or at least very little. Shows are back. Just bring good stuff and decent prices. This does not mean cheap, just fair.

  • CBearCBear 902 Posts
    I do fine at the San Diego Show. For me, selling on eBay is a PITA and I only do it for records that I'm pretty sue I can fetch at least $50 for. Once you factor in the eBay fees, Paypal fees, time spent, packaging, it's not worth it to me. I'm able to keep my personal collection evolving well just by selling at the show 4 times a year. I price regularly available records at about 75% of recent eBay auctions, and stuff not available on eBay a little higher, especially records with local interest. I usually bring about 8 crates and sell about 2 of them. The rest gets reduced and stored for the next show. I'm sure I could do a little better financially if I put them all up on eBay, but it's not worth it to me.

    I also love face to face commerce. I like to hear stories from the dudes who have been doing it forever. I like to haggle. I like to see youngins take the records they bought from me and ecstatically show them to their friends. I like to make suggestions to people of stuff they would never look for on eBay. I love dealing in cash.

    And like I said, it's enough for me to keep my collection evolving without investing any more money into it.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I hate to haggle.

  • esskayesskay 221 Posts
    There's been reissues in other countries besides the US for a long time-reissues in mass only really starting taking on prominence 10 to 12 years ago-when we used to buy reissues of funk/jazz things (J.B.'s, Prestige, etc) in the lat 90's/early 00's they were all f/all f/Japan & UK (BGP), etc & only certain stores had them here in Cali like Groove Merchant, etc. Rock titles like Beatles, Velvet Underground, etc have always been reissued but soul/funk/jazz/latin/brazilian/etc things came much later here in the states.


    My bad-senility in effect-we were buying reissues way back in the late 80's & early 90's on SF trips-hit up Groove Merchant maybe 6 months after it opened.
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