I don't usually get involved in debates over this sort of shit. ???Problems of the world-related???, yo. Same sex relationships aren???t natural. I mean how is one to dismiss this when same sexes can???t procreate? I suppose it also doesn???t matter whether you think we were put here as humans or evolved from other species either; this rule is universal. But sex for the sport right?
And then there is Marriage. This is about children and the constitution or sanctity of marriage, for lack of better words, should not be broken down like this. If people want to be gay, or claim to born gay, that is whatever it is, but marriage is not something gay people should be entitled to for this reason. There are universal laws, spiritual laws, and laws of our land. Some of those laws are intertwined. Old traditions may die hard but I think this tradition is too deeply imbedded in our universe to be fucked with.
All of this is about the breakdown of our society, which is to say, the breakdown of our community. As a society I think we are without a real sense of community. That is the sense which we are gifted from our families. But we have grown into a society where families are all fucked up. I mean how do you know you aren???t marrying your sister years from now?! ???And gay men and women want to raise kids.
From this perspective I???m talking about, this breakdown, it will get worse before it gets better. And how it???s going to get better I don???t know. Of course we don???t want to create disunity, but gay relationships aren???t natural. However, you can???t control what people do (and who would want to?!), but the constitution of Marriage should be broken like this.
I don't usually get involved in debates over this sort of shit. ???Problems of the world-related???, yo. Same sex relationships aren???t natural. I mean how is one to dismiss this when same sexes can???t procreate? I suppose it also doesn???t matter whether you think we were put here as humans or evolved from other species either; this rule is universal. But sex for the sport right?
And then there is Marriage. This is about children and the constitution or sanctity of marriage, for lack of better words, should not be broken down like this. If people want to be gay, or claim to born gay, that is whatever it is, but marriage is not something gay people should be entitled to for this reason. There are universal laws, spiritual laws, and laws of our land. Some of those laws are intertwined. Old traditions may die hard but I think this tradition is too deeply imbedded in our universe to be fucked with.
All of this is about the breakdown of our society, which is to say, the breakdown of our community. As a society I think we are without a real sense of community. That is the sense which we are gifted from our families. But we have grown into a society where families are all fucked up. I mean how do you know you aren???t marrying your sister years from now?! ???And gay men and women want to raise kids.
From this perspective I???m talking about, this breakdown, it will get worse before it gets better. And how it???s going to get better I don???t know. Of course we don???t want to create disunity, but gay relationships aren???t natural. However, you can???t control what people do (and who would want to?!), but the constitution of Marriage should be broken like this.
please explain the "spiritual laws"...is some sort of bible bullshit you are talking about? I know the Old Testament says some stuff about "man laying down with another man" but the OT also says slavery is ok. So I assume if it is the bible you are talking about, then you must be cool with the whole slavery thing, because, you know yo...its an old tradtiton and those things are important. If it is the new Testament you are speaking of, please quote where jesus says the gays are wrong and gross. I missed that part of the New Testament. I supppose it IS better if the gays don't adopt the kids unwanted or not cared for by the heteros...they used sex to porcreate so I guess it is ok...even though they decided to they didnt want to take care fo the kid they created, you wouldnt want society breaking down yo by giving these kids a home and love, because the gays arent natural and they shouldnt raise kids yo. It is better that they stay in group homes and with foster parents instead of being raised by 2 people who will love and care for them, because they are like gay and stuff yo.
I have an idea, society will get better when people get past their prejudices and irrational hate for things that don't affect them in the least. So boys kissing boys and then registering at the pottery barn and then possibly adopting and raising an unwanted child is somehow going to plunge our society into some sort of immoral maelstrom? Interesting. I suppose all of the problems in our society can be attributed to the gays and their feeling they should be able to visit their significant other in the hospital and shit like that, yo. That kinda shit should only be reserved for the straights...right?
I don't usually get involved in debates over this sort of shit. ???Problems of the world-related???, yo. Same sex relationships aren???t natural. I mean how is one to dismiss this when same sexes can???t procreate? I suppose it also doesn???t matter whether you think we were put here as humans or evolved from other species either; this rule is universal. But sex for the sport right?
And then there is Marriage. This is about children and the constitution or sanctity of marriage, for lack of better words, should not be broken down like this. If people want to be gay, or claim to born gay, that is whatever it is, but marriage is not something gay people should be entitled to for this reason. There are universal laws, spiritual laws, and laws of our land. Some of those laws are intertwined. Old traditions may die hard but I think this tradition is too deeply imbedded in our universe to be fucked with.
All of this is about the breakdown of our society, which is to say, the breakdown of our community. As a society I think we are without a real sense of community. That is the sense which we are gifted from our families. But we have grown into a society where families are all fucked up. I mean how do you know you aren???t marrying your sister years from now?! ???And gay men and women want to raise kids.
From this perspective I???m talking about, this breakdown, it will get worse before it gets better. And how it???s going to get better I don???t know. Of course we don???t want to create disunity, but gay relationships aren???t natural. However, you can???t control what people do (and who would want to?!), but the constitution of Marriage should be broken like this.
please explain the "spiritual laws"...is some sort of bible bullshit you are talking about? I know the Old Testament says some stuff about "man laying down with another man" but the OT also says slavery is ok. So I assume if it is the bible you are talking about, then you must be cool with the whole slavery thing, because, you know yo...its an old tradtiton and those things are important. If it is the new Testament you are speaking of, please quote where jesus says the gays are wrong and gross. I missed that part of the New Testament. I supppose it IS better if the gays don't adopt the kids unwanted or not cared for by the heteros...they used sex to porcreate so I guess it is ok...even though they decided to they didnt want to take care fo the kid they created, you wouldnt want society breaking down yo by giving these kids a home and love, because the gays arent natural and they shouldnt raise kids yo. It is better that they stay in group homes and with foster parents instead of being raised by 2 people who will love and care for them, because they are like gay and stuff yo.
I have an idea, society will get better when people get past their prejudices and irrational hate for things that don't affect them in the least. So boys kissing boys and then registering at the pottery barn and then possibly adopting and raising an unwanted child is somehow going to plunge our society into some sort of immoral maelstrom? Interesting. I suppose all of the problems in our society can be attributed to the gays and their feeling they should be able to visit their significant other in the hospital and shit like that, yo. That kinda shit should only be reserved for the straights...right?
Too much venom there man. You are missing the point and I don't care to talk about this with someone in attack mode yo. You should be weary of taking the words you see in your bible literally, too, imo. Everyone should. I've never read the bible and know little of what it says.
I don't usually get involved in debates over this sort of shit. ???Problems of the world-related???, yo. Same sex relationships aren???t natural. I mean how is one to dismiss this when same sexes can???t procreate? I suppose it also doesn???t matter whether you think we were put here as humans or evolved from other species either; this rule is universal. But sex for the sport right?
And then there is Marriage. This is about children and the constitution or sanctity of marriage, for lack of better words, should not be broken down like this. If people want to be gay, or claim to born gay, that is whatever it is, but marriage is not something gay people should be entitled to for this reason. There are universal laws, spiritual laws, and laws of our land. Some of those laws are intertwined. Old traditions may die hard but I think this tradition is too deeply imbedded in our universe to be fucked with.
All of this is about the breakdown of our society, which is to say, the breakdown of our community. As a society I think we are without a real sense of community. That is the sense which we are gifted from our families. But we have grown into a society where families are all fucked up. I mean how do you know you aren???t marrying your sister years from now?! ???And gay men and women want to raise kids.
From this perspective I???m talking about, this breakdown, it will get worse before it gets better. And how it???s going to get better I don???t know. Of course we don???t want to create disunity, but gay relationships aren???t natural. However, you can???t control what people do (and who would want to?!), but the constitution of Marriage should be broken like this.
The_Hook_Up, you ignored the points of my post you wanted to and created new arguments that were non existent in my post. Probably because you are the one wanting to flame (is that what they call it?). Sorry to come across as an asshat(?) guys. Though I don't know how I did. We all know this is the wrong place for the discussion. I won't pursue it.
sorry for "too much venom"....I didn't realize that expressing that a whole population of people are "wrong" and are not entitled basic rights due to "spiritual laws" was a polite and venom-free.
Your point was basically there are too many people against gay marriage and that will upset some sort of balance...so mob rule is better than doing what is right. That seemed to be your point to me.
snuff, the only way i'd be able to understand your point is if you were saying that marriage is such an antique notion in 2011 that you can't understand why straight people still insist on doing it, let alone why gay people would want to. the point is that yes, according to religion, marriage is a spiritual union, but in the eyes of the law it also affords the couple involved benefits that a civil partnership does not. hence why there is a necessity to allow all people to marry regardless of whatever sex they enjoy for "sport" as you put it.
From this perspective I???m talking about, this breakdown, it will get worse before it gets better. And how it???s going to get better I don???t know. Of course we don???t want to create disunity, but gay relationships aren???t natural. However, you can???t control what people do (and who would want to?!), but the constitution of Marriage should be broken like this.
From this perspective I???m talking about, this breakdown, it will get worse before it gets better. And how it???s going to get better I don???t know. Of course we don???t want to create disunity, but gay relationships aren???t natural. However, you can???t control what people do (and who would want to?!), but the constitution of Marriage should be broken like this.
I have just read the other posts in this thread which came before mine and can see that I had posted my opinion before really considering others here. Apologies. It wasn't the place and I don't blame whoever implied I was trying to rustle feathers.
I don't usually get involved in debates over this sort of shit. ???Problems of the world-related???, yo. Same sex relationships aren???t natural. I mean how is one to dismiss this when same sexes can???t procreate? I suppose it also doesn???t matter whether you think we were put here as humans or evolved from other species either; this rule is universal. But sex for the sport right?
And then there is Marriage. This is about children and the constitution or sanctity of marriage, for lack of better words, should not be broken down like this. If people want to be gay, or claim to born gay, that is whatever it is, but marriage is not something gay people should be entitled to for this reason. There are universal laws, spiritual laws, and laws of our land. Some of those laws are intertwined. Old traditions may die hard but I think this tradition is too deeply imbedded in our universe to be fucked with.
All of this is about the breakdown of our society, which is to say, the breakdown of our community. As a society I think we are without a real sense of community. That is the sense which we are gifted from our families. But we have grown into a society where families are all fucked up. I mean how do you know you aren???t marrying your sister years from now?! ???And gay men and women want to raise kids.
From this perspective I???m talking about, this breakdown, it will get worse before it gets better. And how it???s going to get better I don???t know. Of course we don???t want to create disunity, but gay relationships aren???t natural. However, you can???t control what people do (and who would want to?!), but the constitution of Marriage should be broken like this.
Sorry to Snuff, who has taken a beating, and to others who don't want to see this played out here.
But I always have something to say, so here goes.
1) Snuff, you have to be brave to post your opinions here, and you did a good job keeping it civil. Thanks.
2) Your post reminded me of an old George Carlin routine that I can't find on youtube. The points are like this; is homosexuality natural? Is it normal?
Let's look at the words. Natural, that would refer to what nature intends. Man, women, they fit together they make a baby. Natural. So probably not that natural.
Now, lets look at normal. Sex feels good. That's normal. Now lets pretend you are in a dark room. And someone is touching you. And it feels good. and then some one turns on the light. And it is some one of the same sex. And you are all freaked out, but the feeling good part was normal.
So homosexuality might not be natural but it might be normal.
Or course George Carlin does it better.
3) Your comments about sex for "sport", and people who "claim to born gay". And your feelings of being cut off from community. These comments, suggest to me, that you would enjoy, sex for sport, but want to reserve it for procreation. That may be natural but it is not normal. People engage in sex because it feels good and as an expression or romantic love. That is equally true for gay and straight. I think it is time to accept the way you were born, and allow yourself to love who you want, and to have consensual sex with whoever you want. It might not be natural, but it is normal.
4) As for the sanctity of marriage, and marriage for the purpose of child rearing. It is heterosexuals not homosexuals who have destroyed the sanctity and exposed children to single parenthood. Homosexuals are innocent in the discussion of the breakdown of family.
So lets close with another comedian.
"If gay people want to be miserable and stop having sex, by all means, let them get married.""
2) Your post reminded me of an old George Carlin routine that I can't find on youtube. The points are like this; is homosexuality natural? Is it normal?
Let's look at the words. Natural, that would refer to what nature intends. Man, women, they fit together they make a baby. Natural. So probably not that natural.
Now, lets look at normal. Sex feels good. That's normal. Now lets pretend you are in a dark room. And someone is touching you. And it feels good. and then some one turns on the light. And it is some one of the same sex. And you are all freaked out, but the feeling good part was normal.
So homosexuality might not be natural but it might be normal.
Or course George Carlin does it better.
Do you think that doing something because it feels good, knowing that it is unnatural, could be self indulgent? What about in regards to same sex relationships?
LaserWolf said:
3) Your comments about sex for "sport", and people who "claim to born gay". And your feelings of being cut off from community. These comments, suggest to me, that you would enjoy, sex for sport, but want to reserve it for procreation. That may be natural but it is not normal. People engage in sex because it feels good and as an expression or romantic love. That is equally true for gay and straight. I think it is time to accept the way you were born, and allow yourself to love who you want, and to have consensual sex with whoever you want. It might not be natural, but it is normal.
The ???sex for the sport of it??? comment was intended to be and indication of what I think we have, largely, turned it into. People having sex with the same gender is not exactly what this is about imo. That may always happen and has been occurring for a very long time as we are led to believe.
LaserWolf said:
4) As for the sanctity of marriage, and marriage for the purpose of child rearing. It is heterosexuals not homosexuals who have destroyed the sanctity and exposed children to single parenthood. Homosexuals are innocent in the discussion of the breakdown of family.
So lets close with another comedian.
"If gay people want to be miserable and stop having sex, by all means, let them get married.""
Yes but a homosexual may be the product of this (read, not all homosexuals). What I???m saying is the disunity within family has a lot to answer for. I know a man that came out in his mid forties and attributed his homosexuality to his being sexually abused as a child, by a man. Another man, a distant relative of mine, similarly aged, who people knew was gay from a very early age happened to grow up with only women in his home. I think that many people who turn to the same sex do so because they lack something in their lives. And family plays the biggest role; also in shaping our society.
2) Your post reminded me of an old George Carlin routine that I can't find on youtube. The points are like this; is homosexuality natural? Is it normal?
Let's look at the words. Natural, that would refer to what nature intends. Man, women, they fit together they make a baby. Natural. So probably not that natural.
Now, lets look at normal. Sex feels good. That's normal. Now lets pretend you are in a dark room. And someone is touching you. And it feels good. and then some one turns on the light. And it is some one of the same sex. And you are all freaked out, but the feeling good part was normal.
So homosexuality might not be natural but it might be normal.
Or course George Carlin does it better.
Do you think that doing something because it feels good, knowing that it is unnatural, could be self indulgent? What about in regards to same sex relationships?
Points taken, if not endorsed.
As for the question. Yes I agree with your point. Sex (accept for procreation) is an indulgence. Oral sex, foreplay, titty fucking, doing it on the beach, old people (like me) doing it, doing it while using birth control, it is all unnatural and it is all an indulgence.
I hope we can agree there is nothing wrong with that.
Chocolate, baseball and the movies are all unnatural. They are all indulgences.
I endorse them all, as I do sex and the right to marry.
While it would be nice for every child to be wanted and to have 2 parents many good people have come from non-traditional families.
Nelson Mandela
Andrew Jackson
Louis Armstrong
Marilyn Monroe
Babe Ruth
Moses
Muhammad
Hubert Hoover
John Lennon
Carol Burnett
Ice-T
George Washington Carver
Steve Jobs
Barack Obama
Bill Clinton
Bill Cosby
Alexander Haig
Alicia Keys
And on and on....
I was raised by a closeted gay man. When he came out, I said a lot of the same dumb shit you're saying now. I was angry so I lashed out, but I was wrong. I love my father, he loves me and he raised me well. I'm glad I got past my anger and hope that you one day will get past yours.
Homosexuality is natural. Hundreds of species display homosexual behavior.
A certain percentage of people are born gay. For those who think it is a choice, I ask if they can remember when they "chose" to be straight. And if they can remember, and did have to make that decision, then they definitely are not 100% straight.
Do you really think you can choose what gives you a boner?
I heard one radio host actually say gay marriage is going to lead to the end of the human race due to lack of reproduction. Seriously, as though ALL people have been repressing their gay desires and would then become gay if it was OK. No truly straight person would ever believe that. I fully support gay rights despite the fact that I find the sight of men kissing to be a major turn-off.
Comments
conservative Jews usually annoy the schitt out of me.
but I'm not mad at this move.
I know I should just ignore you, but your concern for "society braking down yo" has me perplexed...please explain your
logic.
the same way we have done with the ancient greeks? shit has been going on since Achilles and Patroclus. its no big deal.
well done to new york for setting the example, lets hope this happens everywhere soon.
And then there is Marriage. This is about children and the constitution or sanctity of marriage, for lack of better words, should not be broken down like this. If people want to be gay, or claim to born gay, that is whatever it is, but marriage is not something gay people should be entitled to for this reason. There are universal laws, spiritual laws, and laws of our land. Some of those laws are intertwined. Old traditions may die hard but I think this tradition is too deeply imbedded in our universe to be fucked with.
All of this is about the breakdown of our society, which is to say, the breakdown of our community. As a society I think we are without a real sense of community. That is the sense which we are gifted from our families. But we have grown into a society where families are all fucked up. I mean how do you know you aren???t marrying your sister years from now?! ???And gay men and women want to raise kids.
From this perspective I???m talking about, this breakdown, it will get worse before it gets better. And how it???s going to get better I don???t know. Of course we don???t want to create disunity, but gay relationships aren???t natural. However, you can???t control what people do (and who would want to?!), but the constitution of Marriage should be broken like this.
Ancient greeks weren't marrying same sexes as far as I know
please explain the "spiritual laws"...is some sort of bible bullshit you are talking about? I know the Old Testament says some stuff about "man laying down with another man" but the OT also says slavery is ok. So I assume if it is the bible you are talking about, then you must be cool with the whole slavery thing, because, you know yo...its an old tradtiton and those things are important. If it is the new Testament you are speaking of, please quote where jesus says the gays are wrong and gross. I missed that part of the New Testament. I supppose it IS better if the gays don't adopt the kids unwanted or not cared for by the heteros...they used sex to porcreate so I guess it is ok...even though they decided to they didnt want to take care fo the kid they created, you wouldnt want society breaking down yo by giving these kids a home and love, because the gays arent natural and they shouldnt raise kids yo. It is better that they stay in group homes and with foster parents instead of being raised by 2 people who will love and care for them, because they are like gay and stuff yo.
I have an idea, society will get better when people get past their prejudices and irrational hate for things that don't affect them in the least. So boys kissing boys and then registering at the pottery barn and then possibly adopting and raising an unwanted child is somehow going to plunge our society into some sort of immoral maelstrom? Interesting. I suppose all of the problems in our society can be attributed to the gays and their feeling they should be able to visit their significant other in the hospital and shit like that, yo. That kinda shit should only be reserved for the straights...right?
So you're an ugly kid with dipshit parents?
x 2.
Is that you, Tracy Morgan?
Your point was basically there are too many people against gay marriage and that will upset some sort of balance...so mob rule is better than doing what is right. That seemed to be your point to me.
When did Pat Robertson start posting here?
fixed
Sorry to Snuff, who has taken a beating, and to others who don't want to see this played out here.
But I always have something to say, so here goes.
1) Snuff, you have to be brave to post your opinions here, and you did a good job keeping it civil. Thanks.
2) Your post reminded me of an old George Carlin routine that I can't find on youtube. The points are like this; is homosexuality natural? Is it normal?
Let's look at the words. Natural, that would refer to what nature intends. Man, women, they fit together they make a baby. Natural. So probably not that natural.
Now, lets look at normal. Sex feels good. That's normal. Now lets pretend you are in a dark room. And someone is touching you. And it feels good. and then some one turns on the light. And it is some one of the same sex. And you are all freaked out, but the feeling good part was normal.
So homosexuality might not be natural but it might be normal.
Or course George Carlin does it better.
3) Your comments about sex for "sport", and people who "claim to born gay". And your feelings of being cut off from community. These comments, suggest to me, that you would enjoy, sex for sport, but want to reserve it for procreation. That may be natural but it is not normal. People engage in sex because it feels good and as an expression or romantic love. That is equally true for gay and straight. I think it is time to accept the way you were born, and allow yourself to love who you want, and to have consensual sex with whoever you want. It might not be natural, but it is normal.
4) As for the sanctity of marriage, and marriage for the purpose of child rearing. It is heterosexuals not homosexuals who have destroyed the sanctity and exposed children to single parenthood. Homosexuals are innocent in the discussion of the breakdown of family.
So lets close with another comedian.
"If gay people want to be miserable and stop having sex, by all means, let them get married.""
The ???sex for the sport of it??? comment was intended to be and indication of what I think we have, largely, turned it into. People having sex with the same gender is not exactly what this is about imo. That may always happen and has been occurring for a very long time as we are led to believe.
Yes but a homosexual may be the product of this (read, not all homosexuals). What I???m saying is the disunity within family has a lot to answer for. I know a man that came out in his mid forties and attributed his homosexuality to his being sexually abused as a child, by a man. Another man, a distant relative of mine, similarly aged, who people knew was gay from a very early age happened to grow up with only women in his home. I think that many people who turn to the same sex do so because they lack something in their lives. And family plays the biggest role; also in shaping our society.
Points taken, if not endorsed.
As for the question. Yes I agree with your point. Sex (accept for procreation) is an indulgence. Oral sex, foreplay, titty fucking, doing it on the beach, old people (like me) doing it, doing it while using birth control, it is all unnatural and it is all an indulgence.
I hope we can agree there is nothing wrong with that.
Chocolate, baseball and the movies are all unnatural. They are all indulgences.
I endorse them all, as I do sex and the right to marry.
While it would be nice for every child to be wanted and to have 2 parents many good people have come from non-traditional families.
Nelson Mandela
Andrew Jackson
Louis Armstrong
Marilyn Monroe
Babe Ruth
Moses
Muhammad
Hubert Hoover
John Lennon
Carol Burnett
Ice-T
George Washington Carver
Steve Jobs
Barack Obama
Bill Clinton
Bill Cosby
Alexander Haig
Alicia Keys
And on and on....
I was raised by a closeted gay man. When he came out, I said a lot of the same dumb shit you're saying now. I was angry so I lashed out, but I was wrong. I love my father, he loves me and he raised me well. I'm glad I got past my anger and hope that you one day will get past yours.
thread over
A certain percentage of people are born gay. For those who think it is a choice, I ask if they can remember when they "chose" to be straight. And if they can remember, and did have to make that decision, then they definitely are not 100% straight.
Do you really think you can choose what gives you a boner?
I heard one radio host actually say gay marriage is going to lead to the end of the human race due to lack of reproduction. Seriously, as though ALL people have been repressing their gay desires and would then become gay if it was OK. No truly straight person would ever believe that. I fully support gay rights despite the fact that I find the sight of men kissing to be a major turn-off.