This is the very last thing the Armed Services would be interested in.
Of course.....and there's no way it would ever happen.
But if offered $5K to start a business, with the consequence of failing being having to conscript your life for 4 months in the Army, I would imagine there would be plenty of takers.
You're not thinking big enough. Make the failures do 10 years on the Moon or Mars working in the mines.
Yes, it sounds harsh, but maybe they'll get to meet Kuato.
You're not thinking big enough. Make the failures do 10 years on the Moon or Mars working in the mines.
I read in the World Weekly News that Mars is having to allow Aliens from a southern planet come work in their mines because Humans won't work that hard.
You're not thinking big enough. Make the failures do 10 years on the Moon or Mars working in the mines.
I read in the World Weekly News that Mars is having to allow Aliens from a southern planet come work in their mines because Humans won't work that hard.
"it's the garth brooks juice diet. i juice everything now"
You're not thinking big enough. Make the failures do 10 years on the Moon or Mars working in the mines.
I read in the World Weekly News that Mars is having to allow Aliens from a southern planet come work in their mines because Humans won't work that hard.
This is the very last thing the Armed Services would be interested in.
Of course.....and there's no way it would ever happen.
But if offered $5K to start a business, with the consequence of failing being having to conscript your life for 4 months in the Army, I would imagine there would be plenty of takers.
You're not thinking big enough. Make the failures do 10 years on the Moon or Mars working in the mines.
Yes, it sounds harsh, but maybe they'll get to meet Kuato.
They are shooting the revamp of Total Recall at my work next week. I need to somehow get in as an extra. Tho, something tells me this is going to be a dud.
They are shooting the revamp of Total Recall at my work next week. I need to somehow get in as an extra. Tho, something tells me this is going to be a dud.
I hope so. What a pointless remake.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Hey Rock,
As a professor who teaches in an HR management department, with a student body consisting of masters and doctoral students, I'm amazed by the ineptitude that I witness. Whether it is mock job interviews for masters students, or job talk simulations for the doctoral students, it's obvious that some of them have never worked in their lives. They lack a basic modicum of social savvy, grace, and flexibility needed in today's knowledge-based, and ever-changing jobs. A number of them cannot present themselves well in writing or when speaking (their use of language is atrocious, my God!!!). I find many of them to be so rote and robotic, and simply unable to use information to formulate their own decisions. Their helicopter parents and spoon-fed, NCLB-based public-school educations have left them ill-equipped to deal with the world on its terms. I need not even address their grossly-distorted expectations of pay and advancement given their lack of skills and experience.
I thank my dad (RIP) every day for teaching me the ways of the world, exposing me to both the bitter (tough love-wise) and the sweet. Big William raised some mentally tough, challenge-ready sons!!! It's too bad I must contend with soft-serve pussies on the daily who don't stand a chance in the cold, cruel world they must face. Their parents should be ashamed of their failure to prepare them.
I graduated in 2004 when the job market was "good" and all I could get was a call center job for $8.00/hr, which was less than what I made at my high school job. I stuck it out and now I managed a department at the same company and make a good salary.
I have interviewed a lot of people and seen a lot of resumes in the past couple of years and they can be rough. One guy got my name wrong three times, once right after I handed him my business card. One resume said the applicant's hobbies included "thinking". Another girl, immediately after explaining to her the job duties and expectations for the position, asked what would be expected of her. Bottom line, finding good people is tough.
I lost the position to a girl who showed up in a tight skirt who was chewing gum in the lobby and was the top sales person at SAKS.
After 4 years of operating above my position, my employers re-graded my job... and then gave it to the receptionist.
I guess I'm of the generation that pays for men having had all the advantages in the workplace.
Of 6 positions that were similarly re-graded, all positions went to women, in a complete reverse of actual skills + experience...
The interview panel? All women, sourced from another department to ensure impartiality. Great.
All I can do in the current climate is grin and bear it.
I was raised to believe that my options in life were doctor, lawyer, engineer, or "bum on the street". Switching my major from engineering to psychology (after getting a 45 on an exam in my 2nd year) was one of the most emotionally difficult things I did in my life. Entering the job market with only a B.S. in Psych was one of the scariest. I thought it was a miracle when I got a temp job in music licensing, and was overwhelmed with joy when it turned into a permanent position that paid 30K (which I gladly supported myself on for years, living in manhattan, starting in 1999). Yeah, it's hard for me to relate to these stories.
At least no one told me I should expect to get a job with that degree.
It might be generational or maybe just a lack of experience with disappointment or career disruption.
I'm working again after being unemployed for two years.
My gf is just starting her career and is eight years younger.
She has a hard time relating to my anxiety related to wanting to hold on to my job at any cost. I have a hard time relating to her belief that jobs are plentiful for those with specialized skills and I should have no problem getting another one.
This thread is really incredible. I had no idea that were "rebooting" Total Recall; then again, what aren't they rebooting?
I would just like to add that, eight years ago when I graduated college, I was offered a starting, full-time salary of $23,000 in the career of my choosing, and I jumped all over that shit.
My wife goes through this with her students too.
She had to add a portfolio class because the students didn't know how to put one together to show an employer.
When they go out in the real world and tour offices or work sites she has to give the job appropriate dress lecture. Each year she is more specific about what not to wear. And this is in casual Portland where people don't wear suits.
On the other hand, I know a scad of kids, 18-26, who are out there working and doing great stuff.
Do any of you employers give applicants reasons why they weren't hired? I'm currently a graduate level student intern, and it took a couple of rejections before I landed this gig. Each time, I thanked the interviewer and asked what I could have improved. The response is usually "nothing, we just had a competitive pool." I'm never going to see these folks again and I wish they had the balls to hurt my feelings a little.
I work in labor market research and from all that I read at work, I know I'm lucky to have a paid student position at all. At this point, I'll be happy to make $30k-$40k a year once I finish school, although that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
That's pretty funny. A degree is literally a worthless piece of paper. The idea that it entitles the bearer to anything is the problem.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
DB_Cooper said:
Almond said:
that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
That's pretty funny. A degree is literally a worthless piece of paper. The idea that it entitles the bearer to anything is the problem.
Hey DB,
The real problem that has occurred in higher education is students have been lured into believing a degree trumps knowledge and skills (thanks, greedy higher ed administrators). This is part of the 'students are customers' bullshit that deans and college presidents subscribe to these days. It leads to issues like grade inflation and the passing through marginal students, whose lack of knowledge and skills warrant a kick in the ass more than a degree (which partially explains why they can't find work). Thus, your above statement is true to the extent that a student hasn't learned shit (or enough shit), which unfortunately, is not uncommon. Knowledge and skills are the currency in the job market, not degrees.
Do any of you employers give applicants reasons why they weren't hired? I'm currently a graduate level student intern, and it took a couple of rejections before I landed this gig. Each time, I thanked the interviewer and asked what I could have improved. The response is usually "nothing, we just had a competitive pool." I'm never going to see these folks again and I wish they had the balls to hurt my feelings a little.
I work in labor market research and from all that I read at work, I know I'm lucky to have a paid student position at all. At this point, I'll be happy to make $30k-$40k a year once I finish school, although that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
I did tell the young lady who could only work 28 hours that the job was not that flexible.
BUT
You have to be REALLY careful about what questions you ask and what you say during an interview. Our managers have to attend classes just to make sure we don't say something that can be used in a lawsuit and that can range from the obviously biased to the politically incorrect. So I am hesitant to say things like "You spelled the name of the position wrong on your application" or "I'm concerned about those 10 years you spent in prison for murder". I doubt that in these litigious times many interviewers will tell you why you didn't get hired.
that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
That's pretty funny. A degree is literally a worthless piece of paper. The idea that it entitles the bearer to anything is the problem.
Hey DB,
The real problem that has occurred in higher education is that students have been lured into believing that having a credential trumps knowledge and skills (thanks, greedy higher ed administrators). This is part of the 'students are customers' bullshit that deans and college presidents subscribe to these days. It leads to issues like grade inflation and the passing through marginal students, whose lack of knowledge and skills warrant a kick in the ass more than a degree. Thus, your above statement is true to the extent that a student hasn't learned shit (or enough shit), which unfortunately, is not uncommon. Knowledge and skills are the currency in the job market, not degrees.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Some people are educated way beyond their level of intelligence.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Rockadelic said:
Big_Stacks said:
DB_Cooper said:
Almond said:
that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
That's pretty funny. A degree is literally a worthless piece of paper. The idea that it entitles the bearer to anything is the problem.
Hey DB,
The real problem that has occurred in higher education is that students have been lured into believing that having a credential trumps knowledge and skills (thanks, greedy higher ed administrators). This is part of the 'students are customers' bullshit that deans and college presidents subscribe to these days. It leads to issues like grade inflation and the passing through marginal students, whose lack of knowledge and skills warrant a kick in the ass more than a degree. Thus, your above statement is true to the extent that a student hasn't learned shit (or enough shit), which unfortunately, is not uncommon. Knowledge and skills are the currency in the job market, not degrees.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Some people are educated way beyond their level of intelligence.
Knowledge and skills are the currency in the job market, not degrees.
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. A degree is a certificate saying that you ostensibly received some training in certain areas of study, but you get paid for what you bring to the organization. If you aren't bringing the skills and knowledge/experience that position demands with you, your degree isn't worth a damn thing.
60k starting salary must be what they put in the college brochures these days as I interviewed some losers a few years ago and they were putting this number out there, even though their portfolios consisted of shit like group projects (coursework) and proof of concept PDFs. Yay. That was like 10k less than I was making there and I had been doing it for 10 years at that stage. Tsk tsk, that's gonna put you straight in the no pile. I started my first job in NYC on 28.5k and thought I had driven a hard bargain (the .5k part, LOL!)
The publishing industry however, still has plenty of people willing to work for less than 40k p.a. bless em.
As a journalist in Houston, it's nothing short of a complete clusterfuck to find work. There's so few jobs in publishing that people will take anything they can get. There's no such thing as negotiating a salary here. I'm probably going to end up moving to NYC just in hopes of finding a job in the same field, regardless of how well it pays and I worked as a music editor at a paper for a number of years.
Do any of you employers give applicants reasons why they weren't hired? I'm currently a graduate level student intern, and it took a couple of rejections before I landed this gig. Each time, I thanked the interviewer and asked what I could have improved. The response is usually "nothing, we just had a competitive pool." I'm never going to see these folks again and I wish they had the balls to hurt my feelings a little.
I work in labor market research and from all that I read at work, I know I'm lucky to have a paid student position at all. At this point, I'll be happy to make $30k-$40k a year once I finish school, although that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
I did tell the young lady who could only work 28 hours that the job was not that flexible.
BUT
You have to be REALLY careful about what questions you ask and what you say during an interview. Our managers have to attend classes just to make sure we don't say something that can be used in a lawsuit and that can range from the obviously biased to the politically incorrect. So I am hesitant to say things like "You spelled the name of the position wrong on your application" or "I'm concerned about those 10 years you spent in prison for murder". I doubt that in these litigious times many interviewers will tell you why you didn't get hired.
Yeah, Rock is right. Don't be surprised if nobody ever answers your question, Almond, they would be foolish to do so.
Years ago I fired somebody for stealing, but that's not what I told him. I was sure he was stealing and knew his system, so I looked in his bag when he was in the bathroom and sure enough there were some expensive CDs that I knew were ours in there. I wasn't sure my search was legal, so I just looked him straight in the eye and said we were 'going in a different direction'. We both knew it was bullshit, and we both knew why he was really getting fired, but I wasn't going to jeapardize myself by saying it.
60k starting salary must be what they put in the college brochures these days as I interviewed some losers a few years ago and they were putting this number out there, even though their portfolios consisted of shit like group projects (coursework) and proof of concept PDFs. Yay. That was like 10k less than I was making there and I had been doing it for 10 years at that stage. Tsk tsk, that's gonna put you straight in the no pile. I started my first job in NYC on 28.5k and thought I had driven a hard bargain (the .5k part, LOL!)
The publishing industry however, still has plenty of people willing to work for less than 40k p.a. bless em.
As a journalist in Houston, it's nothing short of a complete clusterfuck to find work. There's so few jobs in publishing that people will take anything they can get. There's no such thing as negotiating a salary here. I'm probably going to end up moving to NYC just in hopes of finding a job in the same field, regardless of how well it pays and I worked as a music editor at a paper for a number of years.
When I graduated with a journalism degree, the decision to get into print journalism was essentially a conscious decision to take a vow of poverty and compete with hundreds of qualified professionals for even the lowest of positions. I saw the writing on the wall and went into marketing. My degree entitled me to tell employers I was a college graduate. That's about it.
Do any of you employers give applicants reasons why they weren't hired? I'm currently a graduate level student intern, and it took a couple of rejections before I landed this gig. Each time, I thanked the interviewer and asked what I could have improved. The response is usually "nothing, we just had a competitive pool." I'm never going to see these folks again and I wish they had the balls to hurt my feelings a little.
I work in labor market research and from all that I read at work, I know I'm lucky to have a paid student position at all. At this point, I'll be happy to make $30k-$40k a year once I finish school, although that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
I did tell the young lady who could only work 28 hours that the job was not that flexible.
BUT
You have to be REALLY careful about what questions you ask and what you say during an interview. Our managers have to attend classes just to make sure we don't say something that can be used in a lawsuit and that can range from the obviously biased to the politically incorrect. So I am hesitant to say things like "You spelled the name of the position wrong on your application" or "I'm concerned about those 10 years you spent in prison for murder". I doubt that in these litigious times many interviewers will tell you why you didn't get hired.
Yeah, Rock is right. Don't be surprised if nobody ever answers your question, Almond, they would be foolish to do so.
Years ago I fired somebody for stealing, but that's not what I told him. I was sure he was stealing and knew his system, so I looked in his bag when he was in the bathroom and sure enough there were some expensive CDs that I knew were ours in there. I wasn't sure my search was legal, so I just looked him straight in the eye and said we were 'going in a different direction'. We both knew it was bullshit, and we both knew why he was really getting fired, but I wasn't going to jeapardize myself by saying it.
Knowledge and skills are the currency in the job market, not degrees.
In my field (public health), pretty much every position 2 pay grades above entry level requires at least a Masters degree.
That said, having a Masters (or even Ph.D) and no work experience will not get you very far. But not having them can be a huge disadvantage and can flat out disqualify you from many mid - senior level positions.
So yeah -- the importance of degrees is definitely inflated, but I wouldn't say worthless...not in my field anyway.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
NomoreGarciaparra said:
Horseleech said:
Rockadelic said:
Almond said:
Do any of you employers give applicants reasons why they weren't hired? I'm currently a graduate level student intern, and it took a couple of rejections before I landed this gig. Each time, I thanked the interviewer and asked what I could have improved. The response is usually "nothing, we just had a competitive pool." I'm never going to see these folks again and I wish they had the balls to hurt my feelings a little.
I work in labor market research and from all that I read at work, I know I'm lucky to have a paid student position at all. At this point, I'll be happy to make $30k-$40k a year once I finish school, although that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
I did tell the young lady who could only work 28 hours that the job was not that flexible.
BUT
You have to be REALLY careful about what questions you ask and what you say during an interview. Our managers have to attend classes just to make sure we don't say something that can be used in a lawsuit and that can range from the obviously biased to the politically incorrect. So I am hesitant to say things like "You spelled the name of the position wrong on your application" or "I'm concerned about those 10 years you spent in prison for murder". I doubt that in these litigious times many interviewers will tell you why you didn't get hired.
Yeah, Rock is right. Don't be surprised if nobody ever answers your question, Almond, they would be foolish to do so.
Years ago I fired somebody for stealing, but that's not what I told him. I was sure he was stealing and knew his system, so I looked in his bag when he was in the bathroom and sure enough there were some expensive CDs that I knew were ours in there. I wasn't sure my search was legal, so I just looked him straight in the eye and said we were 'going in a different direction'. We both knew it was bullshit, and we both knew why he was really getting fired, but I wasn't going to jeapardize myself by saying it.
Yup. When in doubt, be vague.
Hey,
I teach this in my Staffing course (i.e., "Say 'maybe' and never commit to anything in terms of the employment relationship, etc...").
Comments
You're not thinking big enough. Make the failures do 10 years on the Moon or Mars working in the mines.
Yes, it sounds harsh, but maybe they'll get to meet Kuato.
I read in the World Weekly News that Mars is having to allow Aliens from a southern planet come work in their mines because Humans won't work that hard.
"it's the garth brooks juice diet. i juice everything now"
http://weeklyworldnews.com/sports/35021/yankees-buy-the-dodgers/
They are shooting the revamp of Total Recall at my work next week. I need to somehow get in as an extra. Tho, something tells me this is going to be a dud.
They are shooting the revamp of Total Recall at my work next week. I need to somehow get in as an extra. Tho, something tells me this is going to be a dud.
I hope so. What a pointless remake.
As a professor who teaches in an HR management department, with a student body consisting of masters and doctoral students, I'm amazed by the ineptitude that I witness. Whether it is mock job interviews for masters students, or job talk simulations for the doctoral students, it's obvious that some of them have never worked in their lives. They lack a basic modicum of social savvy, grace, and flexibility needed in today's knowledge-based, and ever-changing jobs. A number of them cannot present themselves well in writing or when speaking (their use of language is atrocious, my God!!!). I find many of them to be so rote and robotic, and simply unable to use information to formulate their own decisions. Their helicopter parents and spoon-fed, NCLB-based public-school educations have left them ill-equipped to deal with the world on its terms. I need not even address their grossly-distorted expectations of pay and advancement given their lack of skills and experience.
I thank my dad (RIP) every day for teaching me the ways of the world, exposing me to both the bitter (tough love-wise) and the sweet. Big William raised some mentally tough, challenge-ready sons!!! It's too bad I must contend with soft-serve pussies on the daily who don't stand a chance in the cold, cruel world they must face. Their parents should be ashamed of their failure to prepare them.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
I have interviewed a lot of people and seen a lot of resumes in the past couple of years and they can be rough. One guy got my name wrong three times, once right after I handed him my business card. One resume said the applicant's hobbies included "thinking". Another girl, immediately after explaining to her the job duties and expectations for the position, asked what would be expected of her. Bottom line, finding good people is tough.
After 4 years of operating above my position, my employers re-graded my job... and then gave it to the receptionist.
I guess I'm of the generation that pays for men having had all the advantages in the workplace.
Of 6 positions that were similarly re-graded, all positions went to women, in a complete reverse of actual skills + experience...
The interview panel? All women, sourced from another department to ensure impartiality. Great.
All I can do in the current climate is grin and bear it.
At least no one told me I should expect to get a job with that degree.
I'm working again after being unemployed for two years.
My gf is just starting her career and is eight years younger.
She has a hard time relating to my anxiety related to wanting to hold on to my job at any cost. I have a hard time relating to her belief that jobs are plentiful for those with specialized skills and I should have no problem getting another one.
I would just like to add that, eight years ago when I graduated college, I was offered a starting, full-time salary of $23,000 in the career of my choosing, and I jumped all over that shit.
She had to add a portfolio class because the students didn't know how to put one together to show an employer.
When they go out in the real world and tour offices or work sites she has to give the job appropriate dress lecture. Each year she is more specific about what not to wear. And this is in casual Portland where people don't wear suits.
On the other hand, I know a scad of kids, 18-26, who are out there working and doing great stuff.
Yes!
It's also established that a lot of people in hiring positions are also morons!
Getting the job someone of reasonable intelligence and social aptitude should be able to get, unfortunately just isn't that simple these days >.
I work in labor market research and from all that I read at work, I know I'm lucky to have a paid student position at all. At this point, I'll be happy to make $30k-$40k a year once I finish school, although that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
That's pretty funny. A degree is literally a worthless piece of paper. The idea that it entitles the bearer to anything is the problem.
Hey DB,
The real problem that has occurred in higher education is students have been lured into believing a degree trumps knowledge and skills (thanks, greedy higher ed administrators). This is part of the 'students are customers' bullshit that deans and college presidents subscribe to these days. It leads to issues like grade inflation and the passing through marginal students, whose lack of knowledge and skills warrant a kick in the ass more than a degree (which partially explains why they can't find work). Thus, your above statement is true to the extent that a student hasn't learned shit (or enough shit), which unfortunately, is not uncommon. Knowledge and skills are the currency in the job market, not degrees.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
I did tell the young lady who could only work 28 hours that the job was not that flexible.
BUT
You have to be REALLY careful about what questions you ask and what you say during an interview. Our managers have to attend classes just to make sure we don't say something that can be used in a lawsuit and that can range from the obviously biased to the politically incorrect. So I am hesitant to say things like "You spelled the name of the position wrong on your application" or "I'm concerned about those 10 years you spent in prison for murder". I doubt that in these litigious times many interviewers will tell you why you didn't get hired.
Some people are educated way beyond their level of intelligence.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. A degree is a certificate saying that you ostensibly received some training in certain areas of study, but you get paid for what you bring to the organization. If you aren't bringing the skills and knowledge/experience that position demands with you, your degree isn't worth a damn thing.
As a journalist in Houston, it's nothing short of a complete clusterfuck to find work. There's so few jobs in publishing that people will take anything they can get. There's no such thing as negotiating a salary here. I'm probably going to end up moving to NYC just in hopes of finding a job in the same field, regardless of how well it pays and I worked as a music editor at a paper for a number of years.
Yeah, Rock is right. Don't be surprised if nobody ever answers your question, Almond, they would be foolish to do so.
Years ago I fired somebody for stealing, but that's not what I told him. I was sure he was stealing and knew his system, so I looked in his bag when he was in the bathroom and sure enough there were some expensive CDs that I knew were ours in there. I wasn't sure my search was legal, so I just looked him straight in the eye and said we were 'going in a different direction'. We both knew it was bullshit, and we both knew why he was really getting fired, but I wasn't going to jeapardize myself by saying it.
When I graduated with a journalism degree, the decision to get into print journalism was essentially a conscious decision to take a vow of poverty and compete with hundreds of qualified professionals for even the lowest of positions. I saw the writing on the wall and went into marketing. My degree entitled me to tell employers I was a college graduate. That's about it.
Yup. When in doubt, be vague.
In my field (public health), pretty much every position 2 pay grades above entry level requires at least a Masters degree.
That said, having a Masters (or even Ph.D) and no work experience will not get you very far. But not having them can be a huge disadvantage and can flat out disqualify you from many mid - senior level positions.
So yeah -- the importance of degrees is definitely inflated, but I wouldn't say worthless...not in my field anyway.
Hey,
I teach this in my Staffing course (i.e., "Say 'maybe' and never commit to anything in terms of the employment relationship, etc...").
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak