Knowledge and skills are the currency in the job market, not degrees.
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. A degree is a certificate saying that you ostensibly received some training in certain areas of study, but you get paid for what you bring to the organization. If you aren't bringing the skills and knowledge/experience that position demands with you, your degree isn't worth a damn thing.
And even if you have the skills and experience, those who are successful go way beyond that. I can tell you from experience that those folks who are self-motivated, pro-active and decisive are those who move up faster and farther. Even if you have the skills and experience, if you just wait to be told what to do and make a minimal effort, you'll be the first to go when there are cuts and the last to be promoted.
Your value is based on what you bring to the table on a daily basis, not on your degree or grade point average. Quite honestly, those things are forgotten the day you are hired.
What I look for in an employee is someone not afraid to make a decision and not afraid to admit when that decision was wrong.
Tell me you messed something up but you learned your lesson and will never make the same mistake again and you're golden w/me.
If you do make the same mistake twice, not so much.
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Rockadelic said:
Some people are educated way beyond their level of intelligence.
Or put another way, the intelligence required to do well in school isn't necessarily the intelligence required in the real world.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Big_Stacks said:
Hey Rock,
As a professor who teaches in an HR management department, with a student body consisting of masters and doctoral students, I'm amazed by the ineptitude that I witness. Whether it is mock job interviews for masters students, or job talk simulations for the doctoral students, it's obvious that some of them have never worked in their lives. They lack a basic modicum of social savvy, grace, and flexibility needed in today's knowledge-based, and ever-changing jobs. A number of them cannot present themselves well in writing or when speaking (their use of language is atrocious, my God!!!). I find many of them to be so rote and robotic, and simply unable to use information to formulate their own decisions. Their helicopter parents and spoon-fed, NCLB-based public-school educations have left them ill-equipped to deal with the world on its terms. I need not even address their grossly-distorted expectations of pay and advancement given their lack of skills and experience.
I thank my dad (RIP) every day for teaching me the ways of the world, exposing me to both the bitter (tough love-wise) and the sweet. Big William raised some mentally tough, challenge-ready sons!!! It's too bad I must contend with soft-serve pussies on the daily who don't stand a chance in the cold, cruel world they must face. Their parents should be ashamed of their failure to prepare them.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Hey Rock,
As you can see by the bolded section above, I totally concur with your sentiments.
I would venture a guess that folks who held down a job during high school and college are way more prepared for the post grad work world, even shitty jobs demand some level of professionalism. I know, for me at least, work was more of a learning experience than school.
that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
That's pretty funny. A degree is literally a worthless piece of paper. The idea that it entitles the bearer to anything is the problem.
I am aware that a piece of paper doesn't entitle me to anything. However, my degree does indicate that I have the sufficient economic, mathematical and statistical modeling experience to qualify for certain positions, most of which pay at least $30k-$40k. I know my "skills" aren't as highly valued as those of a, say, engineer, but I do think there is a difference between a false sense of entitlement and fairly valuing one's knowledge, skills and abilities. No one works for free until their boss decides how much they're worth.
It's too bad I must contend with soft-serve pussies on the daily who don't stand a chance in the cold, cruel world they must face. Their parents should be ashamed of their failure to prepare them.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
^^^This^^^
People who think "banning" those who hurt their feelings or don't agree with them is the answer, like Chauncey Gardner trying to make the real world go away with his TV remote.
that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
That's pretty funny. A degree is literally a worthless piece of paper. The idea that it entitles the bearer to anything is the problem.
I am aware that a piece of paper doesn't entitle me to anything. However, my degree does indicate that I have the sufficient economic, mathematical and statistical modeling experience to qualify for certain positions, most of which pay at least $30k-$40k. I know my "skills" aren't as highly valued as those of a, say, engineer, but I do think there is a difference between a false sense of entitlement and fairly valuing one's knowledge, skills and abilities.
And hasn't every generation been called ungrateful and arrogantly entitled? I don't recall any phrases about how kids are so humble thee days. I don't know who you all are spending time with, but my peers wear suits to interviews and prove themselves in the workplace before asking for anything more.
This is not a judgement on you....but believe me, having a degree does NOT mean you qualify for anydamnthing.
Having certain degrees only means you qualify to be considered for a position in that field.
Look around your class, consider all the people that will earn the same degree as you, and figure out how many of them you would hire if you had the chance....if the answer is 100% I'd be shocked.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Almond said:
DB_Cooper said:
Almond said:
that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
That's pretty funny. A degree is literally a worthless piece of paper. The idea that it entitles the bearer to anything is the problem.
I am aware that a piece of paper doesn't entitle me to anything. However, my degree does indicate that I have the sufficient economic, mathematical and statistical modeling experience to qualify for certain positions, most of which pay at least $30k-$40k. I know my "skills" aren't as highly valued as those of a, say, engineer, but I do think there is a difference between a false sense of entitlement and fairly valuing one's knowledge, skills and abilities. No one works for free until their boss decides how much they're worth.
Hey Almond,
The point I made earlier was that the degree should be equated with a requisite level of knowledge and skills; however, higher education, at least at state-schools, has been so bastardized and watered down due to the 'student as customer model', that the relationships between degree attainment and knowledge/skills are greatly blurred. As a consequence, students earn degrees, yet they are ill-prepared to work effectively in their area of study. By contrast, I joined academia after working for years in the real-world, so I fail mofos who don't know or can apply the course material.
and for the record depending on where you live the job/education game changes
masters programs used to top off at 25 students
in my year alone we were 80
secondly here in mtl even an administrative assistant position (glorified secretary) with 14,50$/h has masters graduates and law students applying
finally
PhD is for those that ''got it'' or chemists if you dream of being a teacher but your personality and skills are not up to the task and you have not published a damn thing before you start...you are most certainly fucked....statistically PHD makes only 5k more than average masters
teachers have it going on (stacks for example) but i gave up my dream of teaching at uni level cause i see i am not made for research. most of the time the unions will make a PhD too expensive to hire and its actually harder to find work... i see dudes that are 29 2 years away from defending their narrow thesis and don't have a publication or a lick of work experience and i feel sorry for them. but then again some of my graduate professors were moronic beyond comprehension so its also who you know!
the only thing that i can undoubtably garner from learning a potential employee has a college or university degree is that they can commit to one single thing for 4 or 5 years. outside of that, everything is bullshit. philosophy degree? well, you stuck with it to the end. applied mathematics degree? hey, that wasn't easy but you saw it through. this is the only valuable skill that a degree objectively illustrates. it is, however, almost the equivalent of putting "i dated the same chick for like.... NINE years" on a resume.
I remember when my daughter was struggling with Algebra in High School and went on one of those "Why do I have to learn this. I'll never ever use it the rest of my life" rants.
My response was that she was probably right and that she probably would never use it IRL.
School isn't necessarily about WHAT you learn, it's proving that you CAN learn.
And when you get out of school, and you think all your learning is over, it's only just begun.....you've just proven that you have the aptitude to learn what your employer needs you to learn.
I remember being at my ex's Bachelor graduation a few years back. We were 8-10 years older than most of the students there. They had the student body president come up and give a speech (he was graduating too). His entire speech was about the "amazing gift you now have... a degree. Nothing can stop you from achieving your goals" etc etc.
You could see the professors face-palming one by one
that wouldn't be fair compensation for my degree (economics).
That's pretty funny. A degree is literally a worthless piece of paper. The idea that it entitles the bearer to anything is the problem.
I am aware that a piece of paper doesn't entitle me to anything. However, my degree does indicate that I have the sufficient economic, mathematical and statistical modeling experience to qualify for certain positions, most of which pay at least $30k-$40k. I know my "skills" aren't as highly valued as those of a, say, engineer, but I do think there is a difference between a false sense of entitlement and fairly valuing one's knowledge, skills and abilities. No one works for free until their boss decides how much they're worth.
Hey Almond,
The point I made earlier was that the degree should be equated with a requisite level of knowledge and skills; however, higher education, at least at state-schools, has been so bastardized and watered down due to the 'student as customer model', that the relationships between degree attainment and knowledge/skills are greatly blurred. As a consequence, students earn degrees, yet they are ill-prepared to work effectively in their area of study.
Peace,
BIg Stacks from Kakalak
Absolutely. Which is why many students supplement their academic experience with internship, volunteer or research positions, as I have. I include references with every application, so an employer really has no excuse not to find out what I'm "like" in the workplace. I don't disagree with your points, but in my experience, most of my peers are highly qualified and professional as both scholars and members of the work force. I've interviewed plenty of kids and there are many narcissistic fools out there, but we always grappled with having more qualified applicants than positions, rather than the other way around.
Comments
And even if you have the skills and experience, those who are successful go way beyond that. I can tell you from experience that those folks who are self-motivated, pro-active and decisive are those who move up faster and farther. Even if you have the skills and experience, if you just wait to be told what to do and make a minimal effort, you'll be the first to go when there are cuts and the last to be promoted.
Your value is based on what you bring to the table on a daily basis, not on your degree or grade point average. Quite honestly, those things are forgotten the day you are hired.
Tell me you messed something up but you learned your lesson and will never make the same mistake again and you're golden w/me.
If you do make the same mistake twice, not so much.
Or put another way, the intelligence required to do well in school isn't necessarily the intelligence required in the real world.
Hey Rock,
As you can see by the bolded section above, I totally concur with your sentiments.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
I am aware that a piece of paper doesn't entitle me to anything. However, my degree does indicate that I have the sufficient economic, mathematical and statistical modeling experience to qualify for certain positions, most of which pay at least $30k-$40k. I know my "skills" aren't as highly valued as those of a, say, engineer, but I do think there is a difference between a false sense of entitlement and fairly valuing one's knowledge, skills and abilities. No one works for free until their boss decides how much they're worth.
^^^This^^^
People who think "banning" those who hurt their feelings or don't agree with them is the answer, like Chauncey Gardner trying to make the real world go away with his TV remote.
This is not a judgement on you....but believe me, having a degree does NOT mean you qualify for anydamnthing.
Having certain degrees only means you qualify to be considered for a position in that field.
Look around your class, consider all the people that will earn the same degree as you, and figure out how many of them you would hire if you had the chance....if the answer is 100% I'd be shocked.
Hey Almond,
The point I made earlier was that the degree should be equated with a requisite level of knowledge and skills; however, higher education, at least at state-schools, has been so bastardized and watered down due to the 'student as customer model', that the relationships between degree attainment and knowledge/skills are greatly blurred. As a consequence, students earn degrees, yet they are ill-prepared to work effectively in their area of study. By contrast, I joined academia after working for years in the real-world, so I fail mofos who don't know or can apply the course material.
Peace,
BIg Stacks from Kakalak
masters programs used to top off at 25 students
in my year alone we were 80
secondly here in mtl even an administrative assistant position (glorified secretary) with 14,50$/h has masters graduates and law students applying
finally
PhD is for those that ''got it'' or chemists if you dream of being a teacher but your personality and skills are not up to the task and you have not published a damn thing before you start...you are most certainly fucked....statistically PHD makes only 5k more than average masters
teachers have it going on (stacks for example) but i gave up my dream of teaching at uni level cause i see i am not made for research. most of the time the unions will make a PhD too expensive to hire and its actually harder to find work... i see dudes that are 29 2 years away from defending their narrow thesis and don't have a publication or a lick of work experience and i feel sorry for them. but then again some of my graduate professors were moronic beyond comprehension so its also who you know!
Jeez, dude. Let it go already. ;)
My response was that she was probably right and that she probably would never use it IRL.
School isn't necessarily about WHAT you learn, it's proving that you CAN learn.
And when you get out of school, and you think all your learning is over, it's only just begun.....you've just proven that you have the aptitude to learn what your employer needs you to learn.
Never, EVER say "Well, my professor said........................."
Kiss of death right there.
Let me stop you right there...
jokes. didn't even consider how indicting that would be.
You could see the professors face-palming one by one
Absolutely. Which is why many students supplement their academic experience with internship, volunteer or research positions, as I have. I include references with every application, so an employer really has no excuse not to find out what I'm "like" in the workplace. I don't disagree with your points, but in my experience, most of my peers are highly qualified and professional as both scholars and members of the work force. I've interviewed plenty of kids and there are many narcissistic fools out there, but we always grappled with having more qualified applicants than positions, rather than the other way around.
would the bosses here on soulstrut hire the unemployed here on soulstrut?
I could use that when I'm hitting the bars on 6th Street trying to meet young girls and telling them I'm just a 6th year Senior.
I've learned that it's not easy to judge people from their online persona.
I've met plenty of Strutters IRL that I would definitely hire.
And there are some, if their online persona is accurate, that I am certain I would not hire.
girlfriend and i are actually considering moving to texas somewhere next year
Probably would come down to how you answer the question "What does the word Haole mean to you?"