Some quick thoughts on the history of discrimination

LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
edited June 2011 in Strut Central
I'm not doing any research here, just going quickly off the top of my head....
I am sure I will make some mistakes...

When African slaves were emancipated in this country I can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group.
Instead it lead directly to women's suffrage.

When women gained the right to voteI can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group.
Instead it lead to child labor laws and other worker rights, benefiting poor immigrants.

When immigrants gained more labor rights I can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group.
Instead it lead to the end of segregation.

When segregation ended I can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group.
I like to think it has now lead to the legalization of marriage for all in NY state.

I concede that it is hard to prove that any one right leads to another, but I believe that the more rights leads to a better society, and not more discrimination as some others believe.

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  • Options
    LaserWolf said:
    I'm not doing any research here, just going quickly off the top of my head....
    I am sure I will make some mistakes...

    When African slaves were emancipated in this country I can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group.
    Instead it lead directly to women's suffrage.

    When women gained the right to voteI can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group.
    Instead it lead to child labor laws and other worker rights, benefiting poor immigrants.

    When immigrants gained more labor rights I can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group.
    Instead it lead to the end of segregation.

    When segregation ended I can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group.
    I like to think it has now lead to the legalization of marriage for all in NY state.

    I concede that it is hard to prove that any one right leads to another, but I believe that the more rights leads to a better society, and not more discrimination as some others believe.

    Hatred for illegal immigrants is way up in general. If you don't pay attention to conservative yammer you might not be aware of that, but it's true nevertheless.

    There's an active and energized movement among conservatives to destroy unions, especially unions of public workers.

    I'll leave the "end of segregation" claim to others to eviscerate, but, um, really?

    The notion that no new groups came under fire between the end of slavery and women's suffrage is comical at best and suggests that you're utterly ignorant about the experiences of Irish, Italian, Jewish, and Chinese immigrants, just for starters. I'd provide a longer list but come on, that should be enough for starters.

    You're certainly living up to your customary the-Nazis-worshiped-Thor standards of historical accuracy.

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    "I concede that it is hard to prove that any one right leads to another, but I believe that the more rights leads to a better society, and not more discrimination as some others believe. "




    That last sentence is pretty spot on. The rest, eh.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    "Those____________ are takin our jobs!"

    Brown skinned arab,indian,paki,iran,bangledeshi cats are profiled hard.

    Progress in one area doesnt translate into a level playing field.

    New York is ONE state.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    So the majority opinion here is that ending slavery lead not to women's suffrage but to discrimination of immigrants?

    That the civil rights bills of the 60s have lead to the discrimination of immigrants?

    And that the logical out come of gay rights will be the increased hatred of another group?

    I will have to continue to disagree. I think that more rights we have the better.

    This is a great thread thou. It only took one response for the nazi to brought into the discussion.

  • Options
    LaserWolf said:
    So the majority opinion here is that ending slavery lead not to women's suffrage but to discrimination of immigrants?

    That the civil rights bills of the 60s have lead to the discrimination of immigrants?

    And that the logical out come of gay rights will be the increased hatred of another group?

    I will have to continue to disagree. I think that more rights we have the better.

    This is a great thread thou. It only took one response for the nazi to brought into the discussion.

    Ending slavery didn't "lead" to suffrage. It didn't "lead" to discrimination of immigrants, either. You're stuck on a causation model and I think you're the only one here who is. Jamal's point is more subtle than claiming causation. Some of the same people who will be patting themselves on the back for supporting gay marriage today will be screeching about illegal immigrants or the Ground Zero mosque tomorrow.

    The Nazis were only brought into the discussion because the-Nazis-worshipped-Thor is the most recent shining example of your sloppiness when it comes to historical discussion. No other reason.

  • LaserWolf said:
    I'm not doing any research here, just going quickly off the top of my head....
    I am sure I will make some mistakes...

    When African slaves were emancipated in this country I can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group.
    Instead it lead directly to women's suffrage.

    please clarify this point...emancipation occurred in 1865(?), womens suffrage in 1919(?)...thats over 50 years...and might I add that life was, for many, more difficult after emancipation...Chomsky's example of the rent-a-car illustrates this point quite succinctly---your car, you take care of....the rent-a-car, you could give a shit about---a rather crude assesment of chattel v. wage slavery, but insightful nonetheless.

  • PATXPATX 2,820 Posts
    I wouldn't analyze LWolf's pontifications too closely. It's just great that he can still sit at a computer all by himself.


  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    Thank you for explaining this:
    "the sad thing thing about accepting one group of people , is that most likely another group gets excluded more.. seems like the hate must go somewhere.."

    for me. I thought what he was say was that accepting one group means another group gets excluded more.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    don_gigante said:
    LaserWolf said:
    I'm not doing any research here, just going quickly off the top of my head....
    I am sure I will make some mistakes...

    When African slaves were emancipated in this country I can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group.
    Instead it lead directly to women's suffrage.

    please clarify this point...emancipation occurred in 1865(?), womens suffrage in 1919(?)...thats over 50 years...and might I add that life was, for many, more difficult after emancipation...Chomsky's example of the rent-a-car illustrates this point quite succinctly---your car, you take care of....the rent-a-car, you could give a shit about---a rather crude assesment of chattel v. wage slavery, but insightful nonetheless.

    I believe, that we, as a nation, believe in equality and human rights.
    Naive, I admit.
    Still I believe it.

    I think our nation was founded at a time when property owners held all rights and that only white men were permitted to be property owners.
    I think that we, as a nation, saw that that was unjust, and over time, piece by piece we have worked to make this a more just society.
    To that end some of the high points in moving toward a more just society have been the ones I noted, emancipation, suffrage...
    Right up to the right for all to marry in NY state.
    A slow process as history shows.

    I think that is a good thing, and I think that African Americans are better off free than in slavery, I think women are better off as equal citizens than when they were protected property, and I think gays will be better off with the all the downsides of civil divorce.

    I was responding to an other thread where Jamal said that if one group gets acceptances discrimination increases against another.

    Many here agree with him.

    I don't.

    Apparently because I am an idiot.

  • Options
    LaserWolf said:
    Apparently because I am an idiot.

    I wouldn't advertise it. There's still a lot of discrimination against idiots.

  • El PrezEl Prez NE Ohio 1,141 Posts
    "When African slaves were emancipated in this country I can not think of any example of an increase in discrimination against an other group. "

    That's because the emancipation lead to the reconstruction period which led to Jim Crew segregation KKK etc which meant more discrimination for the same group.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    I'm not feeling all the emancipation was worse than slavery I am reading in this thread.
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