NORTH AFRICA (Revolution-related)

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  • hey Dan -- "BORDERS."

    speaking of which, the big one across from PacBell closed and it was half off everything. I made a good book haul.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    dwyhajlo said:
    LaserWolf said:
    dwyhajlo said:
    LaserWolf said:
    European powers drew the boarders in Europe, with a good understanding of European people and history.

    Are you sure about that? Even if that is true, it's still lead to no end of grief.

    I recon it's true. Yes, it has lead to lots of grief.

    Well, I respectfully disagree. Exhibit A:

    I'm not sure what your point is.
    Who do you think drew those boarders?

    My point is this: Europeans didn't even show deference to other Europeans when they were drawing borders.

    True.
    That's why I said European "powers". The powerful don't spend much time deferring to the little people.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    So things should be interesting in Egypt tomorrow.

    Most of the net is down and Mobile is being locked down in preparation.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    A few scenes from today.



  • CosmoCosmo 9,768 Posts
    Shit is real over there right now. Thoughts with The People getting theirs.

    Real big. Really fucking big.

    B/W

    Every website has been absolutely fucked for the past 2 days - Twitter, Facebook... I wonder how much people's online engagement with each other over this via social media platforms has to do with it. A bit I'm sure.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    Crazy... CRAZY


  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Just thinking. I don't think terrorism has ever overthrown a government.
    Mass protests by the people has.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    Just thinking. I don't think terrorism has ever overthrown a government.

    If one doesn't consider (foreign) military invasions and occupations as acts of terror, that is.

  • discos_almadiscos_alma discos_alma 2,164 Posts
    rootlesscosmo said:
    There will be a President Mubarak in Egypt (the current one or his son) for many, many years yet.

    Bite your tongue, dude

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    bassie said:
    LaserWolf said:
    Just thinking. I don't think terrorism has ever overthrown a government.

    If one doesn't consider (foreign) military invasions and occupations as acts of terror, that is.

    I hear you.
    But I was thinking of the suicide bomb, car bomb, attacks on civilians type of terror.
    Totally ineffective beyond creating terror.

    I don't know much about the Algerian independence war against France.
    But I think that was more a Guerrilla war than terror attacks.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    "...the US needs a friendly government in Cairo more than it needs a democratic one. Whether the issue is Israel-Palestine, Hamas and Gaza, Lebanon, Iran, security for Gulf oil supplies, Sudan, or the spread of Islamist fundamentalist ideas, Washington wants Egypt, the Arab world's most populous and influential country, in its corner. That's the political and geostrategic bottom line. In this sense, Egypt's demonstrators are not just fighting the regime. They are fighting Washington, too."



    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jan/28/obama-clinton-wobble-egypt-mubarak

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    bassie said:
    LaserWolf said:
    Just thinking. I don't think terrorism has ever overthrown a government.

    If one doesn't consider (foreign) military invasions and occupations as acts of terror, that is.

    I hear you.
    But I was thinking of the suicide bomb, car bomb, attacks on civilians type of terror.
    Totally ineffective beyond creating terror.

    I hear you, too. However, whether it comes in a car, in a purse or falls out of the sky, a bomb doesn't pick and choose whose limbs and heads it blows off.
    "Formal" wars are absolutely attacks on civilians. Check the numbers please.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    bassie said:
    LaserWolf said:
    bassie said:
    LaserWolf said:
    Just thinking. I don't think terrorism has ever overthrown a government.

    If one doesn't consider (foreign) military invasions and occupations as acts of terror, that is.

    I hear you.
    But I was thinking of the suicide bomb, car bomb, attacks on civilians type of terror.
    Totally ineffective beyond creating terror.

    I hear you, too. However, whether it comes in a car, in a purse or falls out of the sky, a bomb doesn't pick and choose whose limbs and heads it blows off.
    "Formal" wars are absolutely attacks on civilians. Check the numbers please.
    +

    Agreed.

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    "Mubarak's handling of the crisis may have contributed to Friday's massive opposition showdown with the regime. One man, a surgeon, told me why he had attended Friday prayers and had brought his son with him to march in protest right after. A friend of his son had been picked up by the police on Thursday and the surgeon went to the detention center to try to get his release. "It was all kids," he said of the individuals the government had arrested. "It was all kids who had been kidnapped. I felt I had to do something." He had never been to a protest before in his life."

  • PATXPATX 2,820 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    bassie said:
    LaserWolf said:
    bassie said:
    LaserWolf said:
    Just thinking. I don't think terrorism has ever overthrown a government.

    If one doesn't consider (foreign) military invasions and occupations as acts of terror, that is.

    I hear you.
    But I was thinking of the suicide bomb, car bomb, attacks on civilians type of terror.
    Totally ineffective beyond creating terror.

    I hear you, too. However, whether it comes in a car, in a purse or falls out of the sky, a bomb doesn't pick and choose whose limbs and heads it blows off.
    "Formal" wars are absolutely attacks on civilians. Check the numbers please.
    +

    Agreed.

    Change "terrorist" to "freedom fighter" and it's a different story.

  • musica said:
    rootlesscosmo said:
    There will be a President Mubarak in Egypt (the current one or his son) for many, many years yet.

    Bite your tongue, dude

    By "a Pres. Mubarak" I mean it'll be same shit/possibly different dude. LIke putin/medvedev. Egypt is bought and paid for by the US. The US is not gonna let this get totally out-of-(their)-control.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    rootlesscosmo said:
    musica said:
    rootlesscosmo said:
    There will be a President Mubarak in Egypt (the current one or his son) for many, many years yet.

    Bite your tongue, dude

    By "a Pres. Mubarak" I mean it'll be same shit/possibly different dude. LIke putin/medvedev. Egypt is bought and paid for by the US. The US is not gonna let this get totally out-of-(their)-control.

    And how exactly would they intervene?

  • bassie said:

    I hear you, too. However, whether it comes in a car, in a purse or falls out of the sky, a bomb doesn't pick and choose whose limbs and heads it blows off.
    "Formal" wars are absolutely attacks on civilians. Check the numbers please.

    B??ngo. Ch??le, Brazil, Argentina, Nicaragua -- that's terrorism. To say nothing of Black life in America since the very beginning, which has effectively constituted a dispersed but semi-unified people under constant terrorist threat from its umbrella gov't. Like Ishmael Reed said after the Oakland BART shooting, it's absurd to pretend that a mobile nation-state facing centuries of violence and repression is somehow a minor segment where things "just haven't quite worked out yet" -- it's a terrorized people under a hostile regime. Ghettos are terrorism, however 'institutional' or 'structural' their genesis: you can force people there with riot cops or game them there with racism and skewed economics, but that's terror-tactic, mayne.

    Does anyone yet have a clear idea who the hell is protesting? My impression is that dissatisfaction with Mubarak is so widespread that no one really knows who's on the streets -- mostly Muslim, mostly Coptic, what?

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    maldorurr said:

    Does anyone yet have a clear idea who the hell is protesting? My impression is that dissatisfaction with Mubarak is so widespread that no one really knows who's on the streets -- mostly Muslim, mostly Coptic, what?

    THis may or may not help: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/world/middleeast/29mubarak.html?hp

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts


    An Egyptian antigovernment activist kisses a riot police officer during the clashes.
    AP photo

  • mannybolone said:
    rootlesscosmo said:
    musica said:
    rootlesscosmo said:
    There will be a President Mubarak in Egypt (the current one or his son) for many, many years yet.

    Bite your tongue, dude

    By "a Pres. Mubarak" I mean it'll be same shit/possibly different dude. LIke putin/medvedev. Egypt is bought and paid for by the US. The US is not gonna let this get totally out-of-(their)-control.

    And how exactly would they intervene?

    $$$

  • mannybolone said:
    maldorurr said:

    Does anyone yet have a clear idea who the hell is protesting? My impression is that dissatisfaction with Mubarak is so widespread that no one really knows who's on the streets -- mostly Muslim, mostly Coptic, what?

    THis may or may not help: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/world/middleeast/29mubarak.html?hp

    thanks for that -- I always get an oh-fuck-not-again bit of acid in the throat when I read a phrase like "a member of Mr. Mubarak???s party and chairman of the Al-Ahram publishing house."

  • ketanketan Warmly booming riffs 3,164 Posts
    bassie said:


    An Egyptian antigovernment activist kisses a riot police officer during the clashes.
    AP photo

    Awesome photo.

    Separate but related - I've been wondering to what extent it's possible that the military might not support the government if this goes on long enough - I don't know much about that dynamic in Egypt, though.

  • discos_almadiscos_alma discos_alma 2,164 Posts
    Mubarak speaking live now

    http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

  • if I'm one of the Iranian protesters from '09-'10 and I'm seeing this US (verbal) support for the Egyptian protesters I'm sorta like WTF? right?

  • ketan said:
    bassie said:


    An Egyptian antigovernment activist kisses a riot police officer during the clashes.
    AP photo

    Awesome photo.

    i hope things end positively soon, with little to no tragedy.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    rootlesscosmo said:
    if I'm one of the Iranian protesters from '09-'10 and I'm seeing this US (verbal) support for the Egyptian protesters I'm sorta like WTF? right?

    You talking about official, governmental rhetoric? Or American citizens?

  • mannybolone said:
    rootlesscosmo said:
    if I'm one of the Iranian protesters from '09-'10 and I'm seeing this US (verbal) support for the Egyptian protesters I'm sorta like WTF? right?

    You talking about official, governmental rhetoric? Or American citizens?

    official.

    This:
    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/01/28/clinton-urges-egypt-to-support-its-people

    vs. this:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/22/obama-stands-firm-restrained-response-iran-protests/

  • What Egypt needs right now is a tax break for the wealthy, which would create jobs.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts


    MOAR LIKE THIS DUDE!
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