I don't have the stamina, patience or good manners to even get into this.
I will only lazily co-sign this to the maximum - with some minor edits to match my own speech.
HarveyCanal said:
This distinction that people are making that says nothing worthwhile has happened in hip-hop since the mid-90's is crazy ignorant.
The golden age was considered the golden age before there was even a new age to be comparing it to. And it wasn't originally meant as a diss to all different forms of hip-hop to come.
Plus, the golden age was much more uniform and formulaic than y'all are portraying it to be. Quoting Too $hort..."I made 7 whole albums with no James Brown, and even though I love his music, I just can't stand the way they used it all up and didn't pay the man."
Point being, even during the golden age...artists such as Too $hort and DJ Quik who didn't strictly stick to the boom-bap blueprint of what rap could be were already laying the groundwork for all the great things that were to come post-golden age.
This stupid distiction that y'all are making that says nothing worthwhile has happened in hip-hop since the mid-90's is crazy ignorant retarded.
Sure, there was some formulaic stuff, and there was a lot of copy-cat stuff, but if you look at how people were rhyming (for example) from 85/86 and then jump to 93/94, the leap is huuuuge and the number of styles created is huge during that time period. If you look at 94 to now, there have been some innovations sure, just not as many.
That's partly to do with when you start out from nothing, then it's far easier to make up new styles because everything you do is an innovation... the more and more that is discovered, the less there is to discover. So it's not like it's anyone's fault that the golden age ended, it may just be that that's when it reached a point where there was less to discover and it was therefore harder to discover the few things left to discover.
Plenty of worthwhile stuff has come out, it's just that the dope stuff that has come out is within the already established Hip-Hop set of parameters.... Eminem does some crazy rhymes, dope, but we heard everything rhyme back when G Rap was doing it... we hear Lil Wayne use a more simple style to get across some subject matter, well Melle Mel was doing that form back in the day.
So the end of the golden age was always going to be disappointing, because for those few years, amazing leaps forward every year was the norm because that's when everything was getting figured out, and as that slowed down, it felt like things weren't what they used to be.
You couldn't really have another golden age I don't think in Hip-Hop because you'd have to have a big a leap as going from slow party rhymes to going all the way to the crazy flows and rhyme schemes that were in the early 90s. Today we have those techniques already, so where could you take it to that would be that much of a leap? Everything rhyming? People like G Rap already have everything rhyming, so it's hard to know where it could go for a new golden age to be created.
The funny thing is that the dudes that co-sign on "the golden era is the best" are also the dudes that ride for Little Brother and every other undergroung rap act that sounds exactly the same, still re-hashing the "real hip-hop" style of revisionist shit and not bringing anything to the game new or original. I really don't how dudes can say Michael Watts, DJ Screw, Mannie Fresh, DJ Toomp, DJ Paul etc..are not innovators when they brought a whole new perspective and way of doing things to the table, revolutionizing rap music in the process.
You don't have to like the music but to say hip hop ended in 1992 is rediculous to say the least.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
BigK said:
HarveyCanal said:
The golden age was considered the golden age before there was even a new age to be comparing it to. And it wasn't originally meant as a diss to all different forms of hip-hop to come.
Plus, the golden age was much more uniform and formulaic than y'all are portraying it to be. Quoting Too $hort..."I made 7 whole albums with no James Brown, and even though I love his music, I just can't stand the way they used it all up and didn't pay the man."
Point being, even during the golden age...artists such as Too $hort and DJ Quik who didn't strictly stick to the boom-bap blueprint of what rap could be were already laying the groundwork for all the great things that were to come post-golden age.
This stupid distiction that y'all are making that says nothing worthwhile has happened in hip-hop since the mid-90's is crazy ignorant retarded.
Sure, there was some formulaic stuff, and there was a lot of copy-cat stuff, but if you look at how people were rhyming (for example) from 85/86 and then jump to 93/94, the leap is huuuuge and the number of styles created is huge during that time period. If you look at 94 to now, there have been some innovations sure, just not as many.
That's partly to do with when you start out from nothing, then it's far easier to make up new styles because everything you do is an innovation... the more and more that is discovered, the less there is to discover. So it's not like it's anyone's fault that the golden age ended, it may just be that that's when it reached a point where there was less to discover and it was therefore harder to discover the few things left to discover.
Plenty of worthwhile stuff has come out, it's just that the dope stuff that has come out is within the already established Hip-Hop set of parameters.... Eminem does some crazy rhymes, dope, but we heard everything rhyme back when G Rap was doing it... we hear Lil Wayne use a more simple style to get across some subject matter, well Melle Mel was doing that form back in the day.
So the end of the golden age was always going to be disappointing, because for those few years, amazing leaps forward every year was the norm because that's when everything was getting figured out, and as that slowed down, it felt like things weren't what they used to be.
You couldn't really have another golden age I don't think in Hip-Hop because you'd have to have a big a leap as going from slow party rhymes to going all the way to the crazy flows and rhyme schemes that were in the early 90s. Today we have those techniques already, so where could you take it to that would be that much of a leap? Everything rhyming? People like G Rap already have everything rhyming, so it's hard to know where it could go for a new golden age to be created.
Do you actually believe this bs you are posting? Or is this some sort of a joke?
The golden age was considered the golden age before there was even a new age to be comparing it to. And it wasn't originally meant as a diss to all different forms of hip-hop to come.
Plus, the golden age was much more uniform and formulaic than y'all are portraying it to be. Quoting Too $hort..."I made 7 whole albums with no James Brown, and even though I love his music, I just can't stand the way they used it all up and didn't pay the man."
Point being, even during the golden age...artists such as Too $hort and DJ Quik who didn't strictly stick to the boom-bap blueprint of what rap could be were already laying the groundwork for all the great things that were to come post-golden age.
This stupid distiction that y'all are making that says nothing worthwhile has happened in hip-hop since the mid-90's is crazy ignorant retarded.
Sure, there was some formulaic stuff, and there was a lot of copy-cat stuff, but if you look at how people were rhyming (for example) from 85/86 and then jump to 93/94, the leap is huuuuge and the number of styles created is huge during that time period. If you look at 94 to now, there have been some innovations sure, just not as many.
That's partly to do with when you start out from nothing, then it's far easier to make up new styles because everything you do is an innovation... the more and more that is discovered, the less there is to discover. So it's not like it's anyone's fault that the golden age ended, it may just be that that's when it reached a point where there was less to discover and it was therefore harder to discover the few things left to discover.
Plenty of worthwhile stuff has come out, it's just that the dope stuff that has come out is within the already established Hip-Hop set of parameters.... Eminem does some crazy rhymes, dope, but we heard everything rhyme back when G Rap was doing it... we hear Lil Wayne use a more simple style to get across some subject matter, well Melle Mel was doing that form back in the day.
So the end of the golden age was always going to be disappointing, because for those few years, amazing leaps forward every year was the norm because that's when everything was getting figured out, and as that slowed down, it felt like things weren't what they used to be.
You couldn't really have another golden age I don't think in Hip-Hop because you'd have to have a big a leap as going from slow party rhymes to going all the way to the crazy flows and rhyme schemes that were in the early 90s. Today we have those techniques already, so where could you take it to that would be that much of a leap? Everything rhyming? People like G Rap already have everything rhyming, so it's hard to know where it could go for a new golden age to be created.
Do you actually believe this bs you are posting? Or is this some sort of a joke?
Well I'm agreeing with your idea that stuff after the golden age is worthwhile, but you seem to be calling your own argument "bs" or "some sort of a joke", so maybe I need to put it in a shorter form for clarity:
85-94: rap went from early simplistic rhymes and beats to incredibly complex rhymes and beats
So for 95-now: less room for innovation because so much had been done in such a short space of time.
Therefore: stuff after the golden age IS worthwhile, just within already established boundaries because there are fewer directions to take it
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
BigK said:
HarveyCanal said:
BigK said:
HarveyCanal said:
The golden age was considered the golden age before there was even a new age to be comparing it to. And it wasn't originally meant as a diss to all different forms of hip-hop to come.
Plus, the golden age was much more uniform and formulaic than y'all are portraying it to be. Quoting Too $hort..."I made 7 whole albums with no James Brown, and even though I love his music, I just can't stand the way they used it all up and didn't pay the man."
Point being, even during the golden age...artists such as Too $hort and DJ Quik who didn't strictly stick to the boom-bap blueprint of what rap could be were already laying the groundwork for all the great things that were to come post-golden age.
This stupid distiction that y'all are making that says nothing worthwhile has happened in hip-hop since the mid-90's is crazy ignorant retarded.
Sure, there was some formulaic stuff, and there was a lot of copy-cat stuff, but if you look at how people were rhyming (for example) from 85/86 and then jump to 93/94, the leap is huuuuge and the number of styles created is huge during that time period. If you look at 94 to now, there have been some innovations sure, just not as many.
That's partly to do with when you start out from nothing, then it's far easier to make up new styles because everything you do is an innovation... the more and more that is discovered, the less there is to discover. So it's not like it's anyone's fault that the golden age ended, it may just be that that's when it reached a point where there was less to discover and it was therefore harder to discover the few things left to discover.
Plenty of worthwhile stuff has come out, it's just that the dope stuff that has come out is within the already established Hip-Hop set of parameters.... Eminem does some crazy rhymes, dope, but we heard everything rhyme back when G Rap was doing it... we hear Lil Wayne use a more simple style to get across some subject matter, well Melle Mel was doing that form back in the day.
So the end of the golden age was always going to be disappointing, because for those few years, amazing leaps forward every year was the norm because that's when everything was getting figured out, and as that slowed down, it felt like things weren't what they used to be.
You couldn't really have another golden age I don't think in Hip-Hop because you'd have to have a big a leap as going from slow party rhymes to going all the way to the crazy flows and rhyme schemes that were in the early 90s. Today we have those techniques already, so where could you take it to that would be that much of a leap? Everything rhyming? People like G Rap already have everything rhyming, so it's hard to know where it could go for a new golden age to be created.
Do you actually believe this bs you are posting? Or is this some sort of a joke?
Well I'm agreeing with your idea that stuff after the golden age is worthwhile, but you seem to be calling your own argument "bs" or "some sort of a joke", so maybe I need to put it in a shorter form for clarity:
85-94: rap went from early simplistic rhymes and beats to incredibly complex rhymes and beats
So for 95-now: less room for innovation because so much had been done in such a short space of time.
Therefore: stuff after the golden age IS worthwhile, just within already established boundaries because there are fewer directions to take it
Dude, there have been all sorts of major innovations since the golden age, both lyrically and production-wise. That's why I'm asking if you are joking. For your own sake, you should just say yes...because it reflects very poorly on you to be someone who evidently wants to talk shop on the topic of hip-hop yet hasn't paid attention to jack the past 15+ years.
Do you actually believe this bs you are posting? Or is this some sort of a joke?
crazy ignorant retarded.
The pavlovian barking squad has arrived. Angry baby. You really want to take it there?
b/w
This distinction that people are making that says nothing worthwhile has happened in hip-hop since the mid-90???s is crazy ignorant.
No one said this.
Plus, the golden age was much more uniform and formulaic than y???all are portraying it to be. Quoting Too $hort??????I made 7 whole albums with no James Brown, and even though I love his music, I just can???t stand the way they used it all up and didn???t pay the man.???
Smh.
The 'golden age' was nothing but james brown samples? lol - now that IS crazy ignorant, and retarded. And shows a complete lack of insight.
The golden age was considered the golden age before there was even a new age to be comparing it
Bullshit - the golden era is a widely accepted description of a time period that generated some of the best and most memorable recorded output the genre has to offer, namely the mid eighties to mid nineties - what is the widely accepted term describing the glorious 2000-2010 period?
We won this argument years ago.
Wow. greatest 'argument' ever.
Michael Watts, DJ Screw, Mannie Fresh, DJ Toomp, DJ Paul
early Cash Money releases
Mannie Fresh with his wholly innovative and wholly ground-breaking production style
Dude, there have been all sorts of major innovations since the golden age, both lyrically and production-wise. That's why I'm asking if you are joking. For your own sake, you should just say yes...because it reflects very poorly on you to be someone who evidently wants to talk shop on the topic of hip-hop yet hasn't paid attention to jack the past 15+ years.
The golden age is not my idea - I'm just telling you what it is and why it's regarded as such, no need to get angry with me.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Does anyone have any insight on Double XX's ruffian reputation?
At the time I remember hearing from a few of the Big Beat A&R guys that Double XX were very much street dudes. I don't think they got that rep from rap industry beefs, although I did hear that they stomped out Chill Rob G.
For what it's worth, in 1992 I thought 1992 was a lousy year for rap music because there were relatively few great albums and so much of what was popular seemed so gimmicky: Kris Kross, House of Pain, Das EFX, etc.
For what it's worth, in 1992 I thought 1992 was a lousy year for rap music because there were relatively few great albums and so much of what was popular seemed so gimmicky: Kris Kross, House of Pain, Das EFX, etc.
Buggin.
The mixtape game was real healthy then. The radio and MTV wasnt defining the game.
Gangstarr - Daily Operation -
Ultramagnetic MCs - Funk Your Head Up
CMW - Music To Driveby
Brand Nubian - In God We Trust
DJ Quik - Way 2 Funky
MC Ren - Kizz My Black Azz
Big name artists albums ran concurrent w/ The Chronic and them and I wouldnt call them gimmicky.
Comments
I will only lazily co-sign this to the maximum - with some minor edits to match my own speech.
Sure, there was some formulaic stuff, and there was a lot of copy-cat stuff, but if you look at how people were rhyming (for example) from 85/86 and then jump to 93/94, the leap is huuuuge and the number of styles created is huge during that time period. If you look at 94 to now, there have been some innovations sure, just not as many.
That's partly to do with when you start out from nothing, then it's far easier to make up new styles because everything you do is an innovation... the more and more that is discovered, the less there is to discover. So it's not like it's anyone's fault that the golden age ended, it may just be that that's when it reached a point where there was less to discover and it was therefore harder to discover the few things left to discover.
Plenty of worthwhile stuff has come out, it's just that the dope stuff that has come out is within the already established Hip-Hop set of parameters.... Eminem does some crazy rhymes, dope, but we heard everything rhyme back when G Rap was doing it... we hear Lil Wayne use a more simple style to get across some subject matter, well Melle Mel was doing that form back in the day.
So the end of the golden age was always going to be disappointing, because for those few years, amazing leaps forward every year was the norm because that's when everything was getting figured out, and as that slowed down, it felt like things weren't what they used to be.
You couldn't really have another golden age I don't think in Hip-Hop because you'd have to have a big a leap as going from slow party rhymes to going all the way to the crazy flows and rhyme schemes that were in the early 90s. Today we have those techniques already, so where could you take it to that would be that much of a leap? Everything rhyming? People like G Rap already have everything rhyming, so it's hard to know where it could go for a new golden age to be created.
You don't have to like the music but to say hip hop ended in 1992 is rediculous to say the least.
Do you actually believe this bs you are posting? Or is this some sort of a joke?
Well I'm agreeing with your idea that stuff after the golden age is worthwhile, but you seem to be calling your own argument "bs" or "some sort of a joke", so maybe I need to put it in a shorter form for clarity:
85-94: rap went from early simplistic rhymes and beats to incredibly complex rhymes and beats
So for 95-now: less room for innovation because so much had been done in such a short space of time.
Therefore: stuff after the golden age IS worthwhile, just within already established boundaries because there are fewer directions to take it
Dude, there have been all sorts of major innovations since the golden age, both lyrically and production-wise. That's why I'm asking if you are joking. For your own sake, you should just say yes...because it reflects very poorly on you to be someone who evidently wants to talk shop on the topic of hip-hop yet hasn't paid attention to jack the past 15+ years.
The pavlovian barking squad has arrived. Angry baby. You really want to take it there?
b/w
No one said this.
Smh.
The 'golden age' was nothing but james brown samples? lol - now that IS crazy ignorant, and retarded. And shows a complete lack of insight.
Bullshit - the golden era is a widely accepted description of a time period that generated some of the best and most memorable recorded output the genre has to offer, namely the mid eighties to mid nineties - what is the widely accepted term describing the glorious 2000-2010 period?
Wow. greatest 'argument' ever.
...
The golden age is not my idea - I'm just telling you what it is and why it's regarded as such, no need to get angry with me.
At the time I remember hearing from a few of the Big Beat A&R guys that Double XX were very much street dudes. I don't think they got that rep from rap industry beefs, although I did hear that they stomped out Chill Rob G.
For what it's worth, in 1992 I thought 1992 was a lousy year for rap music because there were relatively few great albums and so much of what was popular seemed so gimmicky: Kris Kross, House of Pain, Das EFX, etc.
Buggin.
The mixtape game was real healthy then. The radio and MTV wasnt defining the game.
Gangstarr - Daily Operation -
Ultramagnetic MCs - Funk Your Head Up
CMW - Music To Driveby
Brand Nubian - In God We Trust
DJ Quik - Way 2 Funky
MC Ren - Kizz My Black Azz
Big name artists albums ran concurrent w/ The Chronic and them and I wouldnt call them gimmicky.
LEAVE HIP HOP ALONE.
?
dunno what ^^that^^ was doing in the Rap U Feelin' thread, as Barbara Bush could tell you it's RnB.
back in the 'golden age' it would be filed alongside Dru Hill, Onyx, Blackstreet etc etc. but if it counts as Hip-Hop in 2010,
gimme the golden age.
Why is ONYX in the same catagory as Blackstreet and DruHill?
???U didnt hear bout ???Hip Hop is DEAD??? until the SOUTH TOOK OVA!!!!???
???Jazz Samples FOREVER!!!!???
was thinking of Jodeci (Diary of A Mad Band?). ONYX not in that category. Although they was mad Mad on some tracks.
Scream Hop. (+MOP and DMX)
.
Scream-Hop
Run DMC
LL Cool J
Volume Ten