Booker or Coltrane ? (or other tenors?)
tabira
856 Posts
I'm for BE. He had it all: pure emotion, swagger, soul, Ammons-like big tone, technique, blues and not afraid to play out as well as in. Coltrane was a great visionary and innovator but on a pure gut level doesn't hit me as much.
Comments
I don't know enough about Booker to comment - what is worth checking? I am not a fan of anything too out, regardless of who is doing it; it has to swing. Let me know 'bout dem Booker gold.
Pretty much all of his Prestige records are prime, especially the 'Book' series. Also check his Candid and Savoy dates.
Shorter was def one of the best composers. Speak No Evil is pure evidence of that.
Yes, I love some Joe Henderson. Particularly the "Basra" album with Pete La Roca which you posted a clip from above.
And in many ways I consider "Inner Urge" to be the best album Coltrane never made; it's backed by McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones so has the classic Coltrane quartet sound and has Joe Henderson on the top of his game, especially on something like "El Barrio" where he manages to go out there but keep in incredibly soulful at the same time.
I'd put Sonny and Dexter Gordon in the same boat. Both were incredible and could blow but never played anything outside of what they did best.
And then you have albums that he played so skillfully on like Andrew Hill's Point of Departure and Black Fire that are completely different from anything else he did. And that same year he records Song for My Father with Horace Silver. Just brilliant.
El Barrio is the best single thing he ever did. Unlike anything else on wax. Stunning track. He was also recorded better on this piece than any other IMO with a bigger fatter tone than on later recordings. I'm a sucka for players with a wide expansive sound like Ammons, Ervin and Lateef and some, but not all Henderson.
YES!
Coltrane is my #1 inspiration/hero, not just on tenor, not just in music, but for everything in life...
aside from Trane, Shorter gets my nod- ridiculously profound as a composer, incredible as soloist and arranger, great bandleader too. As much as everyone acknowledges Shorter's genius, in my opinion he's STILL underrated, and that's saying something.
Sonny Rollins gets a special shout out for the incredible structure/logic of his improvisations- that shit is as sound as any classic architecture right there...
but getting back to your quote, I'll take Joe Henderson when it comes to tone, and yes- his "Idle Moments" solo is what I point to when I want to say 'THIS is how i want the tenor saxophone to sound'. to me the only better sax sound might be Trane on a ballad like the "Lush Life" he recorded on Impulse or the "Body and Soul" he recorded on Atlantic
lastly, while we're naming a lot of great tenor players, I'll give a dark-horse shout to Clifford Jordan. while not on the level of Trane, Wayne, or Sonny (i mean come on- that is like the highest level of human civilization right there), Jordan's Glass Bead Games LP is on some seriously righteous knowledge-of-self type shit. doesn't get much better...
Clifford Jordan doesn't get the creds he deserves! Glass Bead Games is such a genius album. One of the best from Strata.
Coltrane is that for most people... inspiration. It is impossible not to be moved by him.
I love the honorable mentions too! Hank Mobley is a giant that should be in the same breath as Rollins and Gordon.
One guy that hasn't been mentioned is Jackie McLean. He is an acquired taste but what a unique sound! You can always tell it is him.
Cosign on the Henderson..."Inner Urge" is indeed great...
Any love for Sam Rivers? Tyrone Washington?
One of my favorite ballads, done as well as anybody has done it.
I'll give major love to Sam Rivers. His solo on Point of Many Returns is unmatched and one of my fav albums is Fuschia Swing Song.
Alright, you sold me. I am all over this album and yes I have slept on it! My next purchase. Thanks for the...Hook Up.
For some reason this thread started kinda odd. Can we even compare Booker to Coltrane? I listen to them both for different reasons. They seem to be in separate categories IMHO. Maybe let's compare Coltrane to Shorter. Or maybe Booker to McLean. Hubbard to Miles. Hancock to Tyner. But Coltrane is a monster for different reasons than Ervin.
That's four more threads you've come up with worth exploring. For many Coltrane is the undisputed giant of the 60s (and for some of jazz as a whole). That said Booker's always been my favourite tenor of the 60s so for me there's always been this natural sparring of the two in terms of greatness and decade, even though they weren't in the same bag. Though Coltrane had his followers during his lifetime noone ever "followed" Booker. He was in a bag all of his own and I think deserves greater recognition.
Fuschia Swing Song is one of the all-time great tenor sax records
He actually WAS the undisputed giant on the sax of the 60's. I think any other musician during that time would have said that as well, let alone any jazz lover now. I think that if you are going to try and dispute that, especially with Booker Ervin, you might need some more evidence than just your own personal tastes. Cause that sounds like what you are saying. Not to diminish your tastes or Booker for that matter, but Coltrane has that clout for that decade and for good reason. As far as all time greatest sax players, not just because of name recognition or innovation in jazz (what Coltrane is mainly known for), Henderson still does it for me. Just look at his colossal career that lasted up until 1997, 2001 was the year of his death. Here are the reasons:
Versatility: could play all style extremely well. Hard bop (Page One, Inner Urge), Post bop (Herbie Hancock- Speak Like a Child or Prisoner), Jazz Fusion (Canyon Lady and Herbie Hancock- Fat Albert Rotunda), Boogaloo (Lee Morgan- Sidewinder), Avant Garde (Andrew Hill albums), Latin (Horace Silver albums), Funk (Coke Escovedo- Comin at ya and Roy Ayers- Daddy Bug & Friends), Spiritual Jazz (Alice Coltrane- Ptah the El Daoud & Joe Henderson- The Elements), Rock (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and I could go on...
Who he worked with: Horace Silver, Kenny Dorham, Grant Green, Lee Morgan, Andrew Hill, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Freddie Hubbard, Duke Pearson, McCoy Tyner, Alice Coltrane, Ron Carter, Tony Williams, Roy Ayers, Johnny Hammond, Roy Hargrove, Chick Corea, Antonio Diaz, Johnny Coles, etc. etc. etc.
He was also a gentle, humble man that was loved by all who knew him. So many outstanding musicians could not be wrong that this man was incredible and who everyone wanted on their album.