As someone who spends a lot of my free time going to small local shows of metal, indie rock & punk bands, and does a fair share of promoting them through my radio programs, I have to say the music industry at a grass roots level is actually in a pretty good place right now. It's what I hoped would happen - with the major labels in such a lame duck state and the money to be made from pursuing major success almost negligible at this point, the "DIY" ethic has really come to the fore.
Small labels, self-released albums, the return of cassettes as a cheap hip format for upcoming bands, tours in vans across the country on a shoestring budget ... it reminds me of the 80's, pre-"grunge" and post-payola scandals. As far as I'm concerned, in many ways the music "industry" is healthier than ever - just on a small scale and with niche artists playing to their base without delusions of sold-out stadium tours.
So, yes, my point in a nutshell is that Prince's next album should be cassette-only
[quote author="DOR" date=1278384389Business or artist for that matter don't control markets or how things should play out. Consumers do.
For good or bad, better or worse, this is the truth.
This is bad news for the next Steely Dan who want to spend hundreds of hours having the worlds best musicians play the same part over and over to get it just perfect.
Also bad news for the singer with charisma who needs someone to tell them what to record and wear and cut their hair and needs someone to put a band together for them and direct the band and book the tour and their hand and tell them they are great.
Here in Portland the local music scene is booming, loads of venues, bands, songwriters, studios producing music that is creating national and international buzz.
My point is things change.
Good for some, bad for others.
Prince has always struggled with the recording ndustry.
Despte beng one of the ost succesful arsts of the 80s, his own publishing, studio, label imprints, producing and writing and movies he felt he was a slave to his label.
My new wreless keyboard drops the letter "I" and "M" and the number 5 all the time.
I think more than money what Prince wants and has always wanted is control.
so people should be paid for videotaping their children and putting it on the internet but not for dedicating their lives towards making music? Great argument DOR.
Everyone complains about the state of music these days, EXCEPT when anyone brings up artists getting paid and then people make these generic claims about how much great music is being made these days.
I do understand the "times are changing", "get with the picture" argument, and yeah, everyone is doing this in various ways, banking on different possible futures. But don't mask a highly unstable time with a collapsed industry as being normal or "how it should be". I mean dudes act like sitting around thinking about how to make their video "go viral" as the next big Youtube phenomenon is normal, reliable promotion and marketing, or that this is in any way an improvement. That's the part that is truly absurd - that people call this an improvement.
Prince is correct. Remember - this is the guy who gave away tens of thousands of copies of his album in the UK, and then went and sold out every single show. He has lasted for DECADES throughout all kinds of music industry turmoil. He is not some ranting idiot and dismissing him as such is immature - Prince knows a hell of a lot more than pretty much anyone on Soulstrut about the music biz.
Some folks would seem to want the business to be lowered to a level where some schlub in his parent's basement has as much of a chance to "make it" in the music business as those who have a lot more invested.
And of course his music is free, so it all should be.
Some folks would seem to want the business to be lowered to a level where some schlub in his parent's basement has as much of a chance to "make it" in the music business as those who have a lot more invested.
And of course his music is free, so it all should be.
I think all the people who are talking about what they want the business to be are saying they want it the way it was before.
I think what the other people are saying is that the business has changed.
Schlubs in parents basements now have as much chance as the schlubs who the majors are investing a lot of money on.
What I think is interesting about the new paradigm is that an artist who builds a local or national following through hard work can make a living even with out the majors.
Not saying that it is better or worse than before.
Some folks would seem to want the business to be lowered to a level where some schlub in his parent's basement has as much of a chance to "make it" in the music business as those who have a lot more invested.
And of course his music is free, so it all should be.
I think all the people who are talking about what they want the business to be are saying they want it the way it was before.
To me its all about the live show. Thats where the money is at. Use the music/album as your calling card, and just to promote the live show. I work a lot of rooms in NYC and shows get sold out every night. People will pay $35 to $100 to see a show. And then cop merch- cds, shirts, photos with the band, etc... Its not baller money, but if you get a lot of hype and promotion courtesy of twitter, fb, youtube, itunes, then you can fill a room. There is still money to be made, but on a realistic level, not drinking Cristal in VIP money, but enough to live on.
But there is no better time then now for the little dude to get heard. Especially overseas where different markets take on the music. Gone are the days of the bloated majors, planning albums in board rooms. And selectively determining who will become the next big thing due to stupid shit like image and marketing, while the little dude with chops is left out in the cold.
I personally like the shift and I think it allows better music to be introduced and allows real markets to be created with niche demographics. Yeah it blows for some people with expectations of bucket loads of money, but it is what it is. Deal. The business now needs to break away from the mold and find some unique ways to bring in revenue now. Time to get creative. Especially now with all these digital mediums like computers, ipod/pad/phone's.
But its rough all over. On a personal level, the recording studio I work out of all the time, is shutting its doors this week. I think these guys took a beating the worst in the industry. Technology and being able to cut an album with a macbook, mbox, and a $300 mic, fuked the money all up for the studios. Some real big names dropped in the last few years. Which is sad because you loose great rooms, great engineers, and great gear, that really makes a record sound as good as recordings of yesteryear.
People will pay $35 to $100 to see a show. And then cop merch- cds, shirts, photos with the band, etc...
I went to the Erykah Badu/Janelle Monae/J*Davey show a couple weeks. ago. Erykah charges $100 for an hour-long meet & greet with her. Personally, I feel it's a horrible look to charge your fans who bought $50 tickets, $35 t-shirts and most likely ALL your CD's for the opportunity to hang outside the tour bus with you and your entourage, but I counted at least 5 people who paid and eagerly waited to be taken back by her crew.
I agree with part what he's saying. The internet is boring, it was once interesting to have everything at the tip of one's fingertips. But it isn't real. You can't eat 0's and 1's, you can't hold them in your hand. Sure the computer can be used to create all types of things, but the internet itself doesn't produce anything. Information is dirt cheap, but tangible items and experiences are worth so much more, at least to me. I lost my entire hard drive earlier this year, I was sad about it for about 45 minutes. Then, I realized it didn't mean shit. I still had my health, I can walk around in the world. Talk with real people, play dominoes with physical dominoes I can hold in my hand. Swim in pools, drink beer, have sex with women, barbeque. That shit is fun, the internet on the other hand, is just a way to pass time between the times I have real experiences.
The only artists that will REALLY be hurt by "File sharing"
are those that CANNOT TOUR anymore .....
OR
Those who Had no Business in the Game to begin with !
( TALENT-LESS = THE EMPERORS NEW ARTISTS....IN DESIGNER CLOTHES )
Cause , if You STILL Got IT ....
( or EVER "HAD" IT )
You're prolly still in the game, making loot.... Regardless of CD sales
* see Prince or Dave Matthews*"
You have to love the stream of conciousness typeface selection but I agree that there cannot be any money in recorded music any more, other than dealing in t3h vinyls.
Prince is a genius, which means crazynees is very near.
In 2007 he gave away 2.5 Million free copys of his than latest album with a newspapper. This is what the industry had to say.
The eagerly awaited new album by Prince is being launched as a free CD with a national Sunday newspaper in a move that has drawn widespread criticism from music retailers.
The Mail on Sunday revealed yesterday that the 10-track Planet Earth CD will be available with an "imminent" edition, making it the first place in the world to get the album. Planet Earth will go on sale on July 24.
"It's all about giving music for the masses and he believes in spreading the music he produces to as many people as possible," said Mail on Sunday managing director Stephen Miron. "This is the biggest innovation in newspaper promotions in recent times."
The paper, which sells more than 2m copies a week, will be ramping up its print run in anticipation of a huge spike in circulation but would not reveal how much the deal with Prince would cost.
One music store executive described the plan as "madness" while others said it was a huge insult to an industry battling fierce competition from supermarkets and online stores. Prince's label has cut its ties with the album in the UK to try to appease music stores.
The Entertainment Retailers Association said the giveaway "beggars belief". "It would be an insult to all those record stores who have supported Prince throughout his career," ERA co-chairman Paul Quirk told a music conference. "It would be yet another example of the damaging covermount culture which is destroying any perception of value around recorded music.
"The Artist Formerly Known as Prince should know that with behaviour like this he will soon be the Artist Formerly Available in Record Stores. And I say that to all the other artists who may be tempted to dally with the Mail on Sunday."
High street music giant HMV was similarly scathing about the plans. Speaking before rumours of a giveaway were confirmed, HMV chief executive Simon Fox said: "I think it would be absolutely nuts. I can't believe the music industry would do it to itself. I simply can't believe it would happen; it would be absolute madness."
Prince, whose Purple Rain sold more than 11m copies, also plans to give away a free copy of his latest album with tickets for his forthcoming concerts in London. The singer had signed a global deal for the promotion and distribution of Planet Earth in partnership with Columbia Records, a division of music company Sony BMG. A spokesman for the group said last night that the UK arm of Sony BMG had withdrawn from Prince's global deal and would not distribute the album to UK stores.
And on 10th of july 2010 he is doing it again.
Pop star Prince is to repeat a deal giving his latest album away free with two national newspapers, it has been announced.
More than 2.5m copies of 20Ten will appear inside copies of the Daily Mirror and Daily Record on 10 July.
The star's spokeswoman Kiran Sharma said the deal shows "it is still possible for artists to work in an independent and innovative capacity".
In 2007, Prince gave away copies of Planet Earth with the Mail On Sunday.
The giveaway angered retailers, who called it "an insult" to high street record stores.
But the offer was deemed a huge success after the papers quickly sold out.
Chairman of the Entertainment Retailers Association, Paul Quirk, said the music star securing a second deal was "no great surprise".
He added: "I'm not sure anyone regards the freebie he did with the Mail on Sunday as being the highlight of his musical career.
"If he doesn't think his new album is worth paying for, presumably he doesn't think it is worth listening to."
The pop veteran also gave away copies to fans who attended his record-breaking 21 concerts at London's O2 the same year.
Since then, a number of other artists - including McFly and The Kinks' Ray Davies, have also given their new albums away with newspapers
In Germany the CD will be a free add on with the Rolling Stone Magazine. This means mass exposure, he would never have sold 2.5 mil in the UK alone with the old record company system.
I bet he will earn more from these deals and the exposure than from doing it traditionaly with a major.
Gone are the days of the bloated majors, planning albums in board rooms. And selectively determining who will become the next big thing due to stupid shit like image and marketing
Actually this is exactly what happens to this day. It's just no longer that a "little dude with chops" can hope to get their record produced on a mass scale by these companies.
But its rough all over. On a personal level, the recording studio I work out of all the time, is shutting its doors this week. I think these guys took a beating the worst in the industry. Technology and being able to cut an album with a macbook, mbox, and a $300 mic, fuked the money all up for the studios. Some real big names dropped in the last few years. Which is sad because you loose great rooms, great engineers, and great gear, that really makes a record sound as good as recordings of yesteryear.
and ^^ this is what I'm mourning, not the loss of potential "big bucks" and VIP champagne whatever. I don't know how that even entered the discussion. It often takes money to make great records. The guys that can cut a record in their garage on a home console and three mics? They can still do that. The creative studio wizardry and orchestration that marked many of the classic releases of the past century? That's gone.
Indeedy. I mean, eventually your Soulja Boy and his demo version of loops might want to grow artistically (bear with me, this is just hypothesis) and get himself some strings and a choir recorded for the next magnum opus.
Only all the studios have been sold off for apartments.
For You (1978)
Prince (1979)
Dirty Mind (1980)
Controversy (1981)
1999 (1982)
Purple Rain (1984)
Around the World in a Day (1985)
Parade (1986)
Sign o' the Times (1987)
I wish he/they would remaster these albums w/ liner notes and all the b-sides.
Downloading is totally undermining most of the good stuff... back in the day a band with 4 kids who happened to make dope music could get let's say 30,000 to make a record and have it made right with some of the best most creative people, and have the art work done, all the publicity done, and everyone at the label pushing it
Now, it's stick it on youtube and hope for the best, after recording it in your kitchen, and people just throw things at myspace and youtube until something sticks. The things that stick are usually the lowest, lowest common denominator of "OMG, OLOLOL, so funnty and maazinlg!! LOL..." so that's what people go for now
Downloading robs musicians of the investment to do well
Downloading robs musicians of the investment to do well
I just don't think this is true. At least I hope not.
You could pick from hundreds of people who have done amazing things in music. From the ones that never made a dime to someone who reached maximum heights of fame & money. The money is not really a major factor in brilliance or the need to continue to create. IMO, money in some cases could have the opposite effect.
In any case, I don't think any of this has anything to do with money for Prince. For him it's completely about control of his music.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
DOR said:
Back to Prince... Hey Doc, didn't he release one of his last albums for free over there in conjunction with a newspaper? How did that play out? I guess not well...
Well, above and beyond the ??350,000 upfront payment and the 10% statutory royalty he got on every copy manufactured (what, you didn't think he was literally giving it away, did you?), there was a further spike in his back catalogue sales that Sunday, sales which had already enjoyed a substantial boost due to the 21-date season he played at the O2 Arena that summer. So, yeah, Prince did pretty well out of it - probably a lot better than he would have done by giving the album to iTunes in return for cents on the dollar.
so people should be paid for videotaping their children and putting it on the internet but not for dedicating their lives towards making music? Great argument DOR.
I never said that. But it seems like you think those people are not creating content as well... The youtube video I posted above hardly seems like someone who hasn't dedicated a good portion of their time to their art. As for the dentist video I was talking about. I was using as an example of how much money can be made just off youtube alone. If you wanna pass it off like it's meaningless, that's kewl. But like it or not, youtube is probably the number one way people find out about music today (New or old). The last 3 CD's I've bought were directly because of youtube. 2 were artist that didn't have record deals yet and only got them after they became popular on youtube.
Everyone complains about the state of music these days, EXCEPT when anyone brings up artists getting paid and then people make these generic claims about how much great music is being made these days.
I'm not complaining. I'm simply pointing out the truth. Some people are acting like downloading was the beginning of free music. Which is simply not true. Consumers have always enjoyed free music. Just like it's a fact that a major portion of artist have never really made a portion of profits from music sales.
I'm not arguing that artist shouldn't make money. Be it $1 or a billion. Just that markets have changed. Common sense tells me you either change with the market or you get out of the market. I have plenty of friends who make music, I want every single one of them to get whatever they want out of music.
And I will never complain about the music being made today. But I am willing to argue that tougher laws (eg: sampling laws) are harmful to the art of creating music.
Prince is correct. Remember - this is the guy who gave away tens of thousands of copies of his album in the UK, and then went and sold out every single show. He has lasted for DECADES throughout all kinds of music industry turmoil. He is not some ranting idiot and dismissing him as such is immature - Prince knows a hell of a lot more than pretty much anyone on Soulstrut about the music biz.
Like I said above. I don't think Prince is a good example. Since I don't think any of this has to do with money. It's more of a control thing for him.
Back to Prince... Hey Doc, didn't he release one of his last albums for free over there in conjunction with a newspaper? How did that play out? I guess not well...
Well, above and beyond the ??350,000 upfront payment and the 10% statutory royalty he got on every copy manufactured (what, you didn't think he was literally giving it away, did you?), there was a further spike in his back catalogue sales that Sunday, sales which had already enjoyed a substantial boost due to the 21-date season he played at the O2 Arena that summer. So, yeah, Prince did pretty well out of it - probably a lot better than he would have done by giving the album to iTunes in return for cents on the dollar.
I wouldn't worry about all these little internet dudes downloading an album on the complete opposite what "principles" should be, as it will only get dusty in a ever-growing e-pile of music copied but never, really, enjoyed.
I loved the comment made by one of the Outkast dudes in that piece about Aquemini, in which they talk about how the album was special because they mediated on it in the studio for a great while. Of course that still happens but I bet it doesn't happen as much. But Prince's records? Bought, listened to and lived to by people who still call it an record, an album or even a CD.
Comments
Small labels, self-released albums, the return of cassettes as a cheap hip format for upcoming bands, tours in vans across the country on a shoestring budget ... it reminds me of the 80's, pre-"grunge" and post-payola scandals. As far as I'm concerned, in many ways the music "industry" is healthier than ever - just on a small scale and with niche artists playing to their base without delusions of sold-out stadium tours.
So, yes, my point in a nutshell is that Prince's next album should be cassette-only
Is the cassette purple? I would buy it...
And after you buy it can you lend it to me so i can make a dub copy.... ;-)
For good or bad, better or worse, this is the truth.
This is bad news for the next Steely Dan who want to spend hundreds of hours having the worlds best musicians play the same part over and over to get it just perfect.
Also bad news for the singer with charisma who needs someone to tell them what to record and wear and cut their hair and needs someone to put a band together for them and direct the band and book the tour and their hand and tell them they are great.
Here in Portland the local music scene is booming, loads of venues, bands, songwriters, studios producing music that is creating national and international buzz.
My point is things change.
Good for some, bad for others.
Which i think we can all agree on.
Despte beng one of the ost succesful arsts of the 80s, his own publishing, studio, label imprints, producing and writing and movies he felt he was a slave to his label.
My new wreless keyboard drops the letter "I" and "M" and the number 5 all the time.
I think more than money what Prince wants and has always wanted is control.
Everyone complains about the state of music these days, EXCEPT when anyone brings up artists getting paid and then people make these generic claims about how much great music is being made these days.
I do understand the "times are changing", "get with the picture" argument, and yeah, everyone is doing this in various ways, banking on different possible futures. But don't mask a highly unstable time with a collapsed industry as being normal or "how it should be". I mean dudes act like sitting around thinking about how to make their video "go viral" as the next big Youtube phenomenon is normal, reliable promotion and marketing, or that this is in any way an improvement. That's the part that is truly absurd - that people call this an improvement.
Prince is correct. Remember - this is the guy who gave away tens of thousands of copies of his album in the UK, and then went and sold out every single show. He has lasted for DECADES throughout all kinds of music industry turmoil. He is not some ranting idiot and dismissing him as such is immature - Prince knows a hell of a lot more than pretty much anyone on Soulstrut about the music biz.
And of course his music is free, so it all should be.
I think all the people who are talking about what they want the business to be are saying they want it the way it was before.
I think what the other people are saying is that the business has changed.
Schlubs in parents basements now have as much chance as the schlubs who the majors are investing a lot of money on.
What I think is interesting about the new paradigm is that an artist who builds a local or national following through hard work can make a living even with out the majors.
Not saying that it is better or worse than before.
I don't see where anyone is saying this.
But there is no better time then now for the little dude to get heard. Especially overseas where different markets take on the music. Gone are the days of the bloated majors, planning albums in board rooms. And selectively determining who will become the next big thing due to stupid shit like image and marketing, while the little dude with chops is left out in the cold.
I personally like the shift and I think it allows better music to be introduced and allows real markets to be created with niche demographics. Yeah it blows for some people with expectations of bucket loads of money, but it is what it is. Deal. The business now needs to break away from the mold and find some unique ways to bring in revenue now. Time to get creative. Especially now with all these digital mediums like computers, ipod/pad/phone's.
But its rough all over. On a personal level, the recording studio I work out of all the time, is shutting its doors this week. I think these guys took a beating the worst in the industry. Technology and being able to cut an album with a macbook, mbox, and a $300 mic, fuked the money all up for the studios. Some real big names dropped in the last few years. Which is sad because you loose great rooms, great engineers, and great gear, that really makes a record sound as good as recordings of yesteryear.
I went to the Erykah Badu/Janelle Monae/J*Davey show a couple weeks. ago. Erykah charges $100 for an hour-long meet & greet with her. Personally, I feel it's a horrible look to charge your fans who bought $50 tickets, $35 t-shirts and most likely ALL your CD's for the opportunity to hang outside the tour bus with you and your entourage, but I counted at least 5 people who paid and eagerly waited to be taken back by her crew.
http://www.smartalecmusic.com/theBIGTRUTH.htm (Desi Arnaz & Prince-R)
"
The only artists that will REALLY be hurt by "File sharing"
are those that CANNOT TOUR anymore .....
OR
Those who Had no Business in the Game to begin with !
( TALENT-LESS = THE EMPERORS NEW ARTISTS....IN DESIGNER CLOTHES )
Cause , if You STILL Got IT ....
( or EVER "HAD" IT )
You're prolly still in the game, making loot.... Regardless of CD sales
* see Prince or Dave Matthews*"
You have to love the stream of conciousness typeface selection but I agree that there cannot be any money in recorded music any more, other than dealing in t3h vinyls.
In 2007 he gave away 2.5 Million free copys of his than latest album with a newspapper. This is what the industry had to say.
And on 10th of july 2010 he is doing it again.
In Germany the CD will be a free add on with the Rolling Stone Magazine. This means mass exposure, he would never have sold 2.5 mil in the UK alone with the old record company system.
I bet he will earn more from these deals and the exposure than from doing it traditionaly with a major.
Actually this is exactly what happens to this day. It's just no longer that a "little dude with chops" can hope to get their record produced on a mass scale by these companies.
and ^^ this is what I'm mourning, not the loss of potential "big bucks" and VIP champagne whatever. I don't know how that even entered the discussion. It often takes money to make great records. The guys that can cut a record in their garage on a home console and three mics? They can still do that. The creative studio wizardry and orchestration that marked many of the classic releases of the past century? That's gone.
Only all the studios have been sold off for apartments.
He'll have to resort to James Last samples.
Sorry I should have clarified it as arranged strings and hired choir are always a Good Thing in rap music. Samples always get the thumbs up.
Prince (1979)
Dirty Mind (1980)
Controversy (1981)
1999 (1982)
Purple Rain (1984)
Around the World in a Day (1985)
Parade (1986)
Sign o' the Times (1987)
I wish he/they would remaster these albums w/ liner notes and all the b-sides.
Now, it's stick it on youtube and hope for the best, after recording it in your kitchen, and people just throw things at myspace and youtube until something sticks. The things that stick are usually the lowest, lowest common denominator of "OMG, OLOLOL, so funnty and maazinlg!! LOL..." so that's what people go for now
Downloading robs musicians of the investment to do well
I just don't think this is true. At least I hope not.
You could pick from hundreds of people who have done amazing things in music. From the ones that never made a dime to someone who reached maximum heights of fame & money. The money is not really a major factor in brilliance or the need to continue to create. IMO, money in some cases could have the opposite effect.
In any case, I don't think any of this has anything to do with money for Prince. For him it's completely about control of his music.
Well, above and beyond the ??350,000 upfront payment and the 10% statutory royalty he got on every copy manufactured (what, you didn't think he was literally giving it away, did you?), there was a further spike in his back catalogue sales that Sunday, sales which had already enjoyed a substantial boost due to the 21-date season he played at the O2 Arena that summer. So, yeah, Prince did pretty well out of it - probably a lot better than he would have done by giving the album to iTunes in return for cents on the dollar.
I never said that. But it seems like you think those people are not creating content as well... The youtube video I posted above hardly seems like someone who hasn't dedicated a good portion of their time to their art. As for the dentist video I was talking about. I was using as an example of how much money can be made just off youtube alone. If you wanna pass it off like it's meaningless, that's kewl. But like it or not, youtube is probably the number one way people find out about music today (New or old). The last 3 CD's I've bought were directly because of youtube. 2 were artist that didn't have record deals yet and only got them after they became popular on youtube.
I'm not complaining. I'm simply pointing out the truth. Some people are acting like downloading was the beginning of free music. Which is simply not true. Consumers have always enjoyed free music. Just like it's a fact that a major portion of artist have never really made a portion of profits from music sales.
I'm not arguing that artist shouldn't make money. Be it $1 or a billion. Just that markets have changed. Common sense tells me you either change with the market or you get out of the market. I have plenty of friends who make music, I want every single one of them to get whatever they want out of music.
And I will never complain about the music being made today. But I am willing to argue that tougher laws (eg: sampling laws) are harmful to the art of creating music.
Like I said above. I don't think Prince is a good example. Since I don't think any of this has to do with money. It's more of a control thing for him.
I wouldn't worry about all these little internet dudes downloading an album on the complete opposite what "principles" should be, as it will only get dusty in a ever-growing e-pile of music copied but never, really, enjoyed.
I loved the comment made by one of the Outkast dudes in that piece about Aquemini, in which they talk about how the album was special because they mediated on it in the studio for a great while. Of course that still happens but I bet it doesn't happen as much. But Prince's records? Bought, listened to and lived to by people who still call it an record, an album or even a CD.