I would take it to the hood...either by a. addressing it with the kids' guardians directly or b. addressing it with the guardians of the hood...or c. both.
In my own neighborhood, that would mean talking it over with the mens of my street and deciding how to handle it from there. And it would be highly unlikely that we'd decide to take it to the cops.
What if it didn't happen in your hood? Or even your city?
Fuck that. You rob someone and get caught you should pay the price.
If they are the kids that did it, ID 'em. Hope they learn that this is a huge waste of their time before they hurt someone else or someone does them with a real gun. I have zero sympathy for anyone who puts any gun on anyone, period. Enjoy your vacation in the clink.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I would take it to the hood...either by a. addressing it with the kids' guardians directly or b. addressing it with the guardians of the hood...or c. both.
In my own neighborhood, that would mean talking it over with the mens of my street and deciding how to handle it from there. And it would be highly unlikely that we'd decide to take it to the cops.
What if it didn't happen in your hood? Or even your city?
Harvey, would you let it slide because it's "kids stuff" or would you handle your business like a "real man" in the street?
Dress
I would take it to the hood...either by a. addressing it with the kids' guardians directly or b. addressing it with the guardians of the hood...or c. both.
LOL at the kids having 'guardians' that give a flying fuck.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Harvey, would you let it slide because it's "kids stuff" or would you handle your business like a "real man" in the street?
Dress
I would take it to the hood...either by a. addressing it with the kids' guardians directly or b. addressing it with the guardians of the hood...or c. both.
LOL at the kids having 'guardians' that give a flying fuck.
Harvey, would you let it slide because it's "kids stuff" or would you handle your business like a "real man" in the street?
Dress
I would take it to the hood...either by a. addressing it with the kids' guardians directly or b. addressing it with the guardians of the hood...or c. both.
LOL at the kids having 'guardians' that give a flying fuck.
You'd be surprised.
You mean I would be surprised that if kids who are robbing their neighbors at gunpoint have adults interested in their lives at all that most of them are caught up in similar nonsense? No, that never surprises me.
Harvey, would you let it slide because it's "kids stuff" or would you handle your business like a "real man" in the street?
Dress
I would take it to the hood...either by a. addressing it with the kids' guardians directly or b. addressing it with the guardians of the hood...or c. both.
LOL at the kids having 'guardians' that give a flying fuck.
You'd be surprised.
Yea, there's a lot more who care than don't. This is my experience anyway.
The ease with which people want to throw kids in jail is distressing. I get the crime/time argument, but not even knowing the details...
Not every kid who makes trouble will continue to do so, it will not necessarily escalate into more serious and violent crimes. But every kid who ends up in detention and jail will be passing through the gateway to more serious and violent crimes. Why play with those odds?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Harvey, would you let it slide because it's "kids stuff" or would you handle your business like a "real man" in the street?
Dress
I would take it to the hood...either by a. addressing it with the kids' guardians directly or b. addressing it with the guardians of the hood...or c. both.
LOL at the kids having 'guardians' that give a flying fuck.
You'd be surprised.
You mean I would be surprised that if kids who are robbing their neighbors at gunpoint have adults interested in their lives at all that most of them are caught up in similar nonsense? No, that never surprises me.
Most are just at work...or simply unaware how bad their kids have gotten.
The ease with which people want to throw kids in jail is distressing. I get the crime/time argument, but not even knowing the details...
Not every kid who makes trouble will continue to do so, it will not necessarily escalate into more serious and violent crimes. But every kid who ends up in detention and jail will be passing through the gateway to more serious and violent crimes. Why play with those odds?
what an apathetic point of view.
if it ever gets that far, it is for a judge to determine whether someone should go to jail after their guilt has proven beyond a reasonable doubt (a very high threshold of proof) and a consideration of a number of factors in the punishment phase if it gets there.
the idea that it is for citizens to stymie or simply not-cooperate with police investigations into serious and violent crime for fear that the perpetrators might be punished in manner turns them into even worse criminals in time is not only naive and dangerous but is a complete abdication of the rule of law.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
The ease with which people want to throw kids in jail is distressing. I get the crime/time argument, but not even knowing the details...
Not every kid who makes trouble will continue to do so, it will not necessarily escalate into more serious and violent crimes. But every kid who ends up in detention and jail will be passing through the gateway to more serious and violent crimes. Why play with those odds?
what an apathetic point of view.
if it ever gets that far, it is for a judge to determine whether someone should go to jail after their guilt has proven beyond a reasonable doubt (a very high threshold of proof) and a consideration of a number of factors in the punishment phase if it gets there.
the idea that it is for citizens to stymie or simply not-cooperate with police investigations into serious and violent crime for fear that the perpetrators might be punished in manner turns them into even worse criminals in time is not only naive and dangerous but is a complete abdication of the rule of law.
I'll ignore the apathetic comment since you know not of what you speak and just say you have a very optimistic view.
You are trying to push me down a slippery slope and I won't go. I never said not to cooperate with police. I do think the details of what happen are important. I asked for some and they were left unanswered so I refrained from telling him what to do.
It is as much our repsonsibility to have healthy future citizens as it is to have healthy and safe neighbourhoods.
Harvey, would you let it slide because it's "kids stuff" or would you handle your business like a "real man" in the street?
Dress
I would take it to the hood...either by a. addressing it with the kids' guardians directly or b. addressing it with the guardians of the hood...or c. both.
LOL at the kids having 'guardians' that give a flying fuck.
You'd be surprised.
Yea, there's a lot more who care than don't. This is my experience anyway.
The ease with which people want to throw kids in jail is distressing. I get the crime/time argument, but not even knowing the details...
Not every kid who makes trouble will continue to do so, it will not necessarily escalate into more serious and violent crimes. But every kid who ends up in detention and jail will be passing through the gateway to more serious and violent crimes. Why play with those odds?
Kids breaking into cars and houses, first off, probably don't even get 'jail' time or even substantial detention outside of first getting arrested, unless they are making a serial habit of it. This is not what I am talking about. Plus, I am assuming that we are not talking 14 year olds and under with this armed robbery, if I missed that detail, sorry. Sounded like 16-17 year old 'kids', who while maybe not adults, are old enough to know that holding a gun on someone can get you in deep, deep trouble, or get you killed.
How is this even an issue? if you do armed robbery people need to be understanding about what exactly? I personally hope he id's these assholes and they get whatever a judge deems appropriate. Their caring families can see them through the rest, not the victim's issue.
I mind my business, I expect my neighbors to do the same. If one of my neighbors, however, tells me to call the cops, he's just been held at gunpoint, I am supposed to ask him for details? Let's round up Big Snookie and them and have a talk with the robber's mom? This is pure fantasy.
You get robbed, call the cops. They find the theives, and ask you to ID, and that's them, tell the truth. What happens after that is anyone's guess. How did we even get to discussing said robbery with someone's parents or alleged guardians??
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
It takes a village.
I mind my business, I expect my neighbors to do the same. If one of my neighbors, however, tells me to call the cops, he's just been held at gunpoint, I am supposed to ask him for details? Let's round up Big Snookie and them and have a talk with the robber's mom? This is pure fantasy.
You get robbed, call the cops. They find the theives, and ask you to ID, and that's them, tell the truth. What happens after that is anyone's guess. How did we even get to discussing said robbery with someone's parents or alleged guardians??
Because not everyone is you. Because certain neighborhoods have good reasons not to trust the cops the way you do. Because many would rather see kids acting up handled outside of the court system than in it. There are plenty of reasons.
In all likelihood, mom is going to deny her kid did such a thing, not scold them in front of a stranger. Admitting guilt is admitting guilt, and it's not going to happen in front of police or any possible victim.
I think the likelihood of retaliation is being overestimated...they've already shown themselves to be cowards.
But, just to be sure, you should probably have that sit-down with the crime boss Harvey's talking about. Maybe bring the crooked chief of police or a bad lieutenant to the meeting in the abandoned warehouse, too... They'll say, "I thought you knew to come alone," but really man, it's standard operating procedure in these types of situations...
be sure to film the car chase and put it on youtube, too...
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Crime boss???
The main regulating mens on my street are an ex-Marine drill sergeant and a dude that cuts his grass every 3 days and another dude that works for the school down the street...oh yeah, and an old kindhearted Mexican man with lots of family at the ready.
You are located in New Orleans, correct? If I got that right you have every right to be suspicious of the cops that have a rep for corruption and brutality that make my hometown police (Portland, OR) look like a model of law and order (We have had multiple police shooting incidences here).
While your neighborhood has its way of dealing with errant kids on its own, it doesn't mean the rest of us have those resources.
Some folks actually have functional Police departments that can be relied upon to deal with such activity (In PDX, not so much as we voted in a law (via our initiative process) that gun crimes, whether it involves the real deal or a toy, mandates jail time without any judicial discretion).
Your advice is based upon the conditions on the ground where you live. And given the nature of your Police justified for your locality. I have no idea where the OP is located, what the Police are like, the laws governing said crimes, or what the situation in the neighborhood is.
To the OP,
All I do know is, letting it slide is not the answer. Whether you deal with this via the justice system or some extra-judicial manner as Harvey has suggested, it needs to get dealt with. You know the conditions on the ground better than us and will have to make a judgment call on how to best resolve it.
letting it slide is not the answer. Whether you deal with this via the justice system or some extra-judicial manner as Harvey has suggested, it needs to get dealt with. You know the conditions on the ground better than us and will have to make a judgment call on how to best resolve it.
I mind my business, I expect my neighbors to do the same. If one of my neighbors, however, tells me to call the cops, he's just been held at gunpoint, I am supposed to ask him for details? Let's round up Big Snookie and them and have a talk with the robber's mom? This is pure fantasy.
You get robbed, call the cops. They find the theives, and ask you to ID, and that's them, tell the truth. What happens after that is anyone's guess. How did we even get to discussing said robbery with someone's parents or alleged guardians??
Because not everyone is you. Because certain neighborhoods have good reasons not to trust the cops the way you do. Because many would rather see kids acting up handled outside of the court system than in it. There are plenty of reasons.
I don't trust cops to do shit. And I live in one of those 'certain' neighborhoods, Harv. Kids 'acting up' is not robbing people at gunpoint, which I guess is the main you keep ignoring. Sure, if some little prick is stealing your kid's bike, duh, you can waste your time going to talk to their prick parent, or you can just walk over and get the damn bike. But if you don't want to use the system or the cops for shit like armed robbery, you are just asking for that same little prick to do worse the next time. then talk to me about how the village AND the system failed that kid when he (or one of his victims) gets shot dead over something stupid later on.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Harvey,
You are located in New Orleans, correct? If I got that right you have every right to be suspicious of the cops that have a rep for corruption and brutality that make my hometown police (Portland, OR) look like a model of law and order (We have had multiple police shooting incidences here).
While your neighborhood has its way of dealing with errant kids on its own, it doesn't mean the rest of us have those resources.
Some folks actually have functional Police departments that can be relied upon to deal with such activity (In PDX, not so much as we voted in a law (via our initiative process) that gun crimes, whether it involves the real deal or a toy, mandates jail time without any judicial discretion).
Your advice is based upon the conditions on the ground where you live. And given the nature of your Police justified for your locality. I have no idea where the OP is located, what the Police are like, the laws governing said crimes, or what the situation in the neighborhood is.
To the OP,
All I do know is, letting it slide is not the answer. Whether you deal with this via the justice system or some extra-judicial manner as Harvey has suggested, it needs to get dealt with. You know the conditions on the ground better than us and will have to make a judgment call on how to best resolve it.
Thanks for the reasoned response. I'm from New Orleans but I'm now in Austin...where APD has killed a number of young minority kids over shady auspices just the past few years.
I dunno, I just can't fault a kid with a bb gun the same way I would fault a kid with a real gun. I don't think kids should get equal punishment for wielding a bb gun and I flat out don't believe in mandatory sentences (that is, unless they want to apply them to cases of rape and/or child molestation, as data proves that we can't trust the courts to handle such cases with the harshness they deserve).
But dude came into the thread questioning whether he should proceed with police intervention. So I gave my take...which is just an opinion, not a mandate.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
It takes a village.
I mind my business, I expect my neighbors to do the same. If one of my neighbors, however, tells me to call the cops, he's just been held at gunpoint, I am supposed to ask him for details? Let's round up Big Snookie and them and have a talk with the robber's mom? This is pure fantasy.
You get robbed, call the cops. They find the theives, and ask you to ID, and that's them, tell the truth. What happens after that is anyone's guess. How did we even get to discussing said robbery with someone's parents or alleged guardians??
Because not everyone is you. Because certain neighborhoods have good reasons not to trust the cops the way you do. Because many would rather see kids acting up handled outside of the court system than in it. There are plenty of reasons.
I don't trust cops to do shit. And I live in one of those 'certain' neighborhoods, Harv. Kids 'acting up' is not robbing people at gunpoint, which I guess is the main you keep ignoring. Sure, if some little prick is stealing your kid's bike, duh, you can waste your time going to talk to their prick parent, or you can just walk over and get the damn bike. But if you don't want to use the system or the cops for shit like armed robbery, you are just asking for that same little prick to do worse the next time. then talk to me about how the village AND the system failed that kid when he (or one of his victims) gets shot dead over something stupid later on.
I've had friends and non-friends for that matter shoot me with bb guns several different times in my life...some out of joking, others out of spite. It's not a deadly weapon and only an eye shot could cause much damage. It's certainly not something I would condone and like I said dudes in my world would still be dealth with...I just don't see it as an offense that deserves to have the kids' lives forever altered in x number of ways by throwing them into the court system.
Comments
What if it didn't happen in your hood? Or even your city?
If they are the kids that did it, ID 'em. Hope they learn that this is a huge waste of their time before they hurt someone else or someone does them with a real gun. I have zero sympathy for anyone who puts any gun on anyone, period. Enjoy your vacation in the clink.
I would take the L and move on.
datz when u take to the Net
LOL at the kids having 'guardians' that give a flying fuck.
You'd be surprised.
You mean I would be surprised that if kids who are robbing their neighbors at gunpoint have adults interested in their lives at all that most of them are caught up in similar nonsense? No, that never surprises me.
Yea, there's a lot more who care than don't. This is my experience anyway.
The ease with which people want to throw kids in jail is distressing. I get the crime/time argument, but not even knowing the details...
Not every kid who makes trouble will continue to do so, it will not necessarily escalate into more serious and violent crimes.
But every kid who ends up in detention and jail will be passing through the gateway to more serious and violent crimes.
Why play with those odds?
Most are just at work...or simply unaware how bad their kids have gotten.
what an apathetic point of view.
if it ever gets that far, it is for a judge to determine whether someone should go to jail after their guilt has proven beyond a reasonable doubt (a very high threshold of proof) and a consideration of a number of factors in the punishment phase if it gets there.
the idea that it is for citizens to stymie or simply not-cooperate with police investigations into serious and violent crime for fear that the perpetrators might be punished in manner turns them into even worse criminals in time is not only naive and dangerous but is a complete abdication of the rule of law.
The rule of law...lol.
You are trying to push me down a slippery slope and I won't go. I never said not to cooperate with police. I do think the details of what happen are important. I asked for some and they were left unanswered so I refrained from telling him what to do.
It is as much our repsonsibility to have healthy future citizens as it is to have healthy and safe neighbourhoods.
Kids breaking into cars and houses, first off, probably don't even get 'jail' time or even substantial detention outside of first getting arrested, unless they are making a serial habit of it. This is not what I am talking about. Plus, I am assuming that we are not talking 14 year olds and under with this armed robbery, if I missed that detail, sorry. Sounded like 16-17 year old 'kids', who while maybe not adults, are old enough to know that holding a gun on someone can get you in deep, deep trouble, or get you killed.
How is this even an issue? if you do armed robbery people need to be understanding about what exactly? I personally hope he id's these assholes and they get whatever a judge deems appropriate. Their caring families can see them through the rest, not the victim's issue.
that much we can agree on. how we get there is another matter.
I still see dude to this day.
It takes one/two responsible, involved and selfless people to properly raise a kid.
Harvey, not only do I think you know this, I think you practice it.
Who reminds the child not to cheat during test time or play w/ sportsmanship?
Parents cant always be there.
Many of my life lessons came from adults other than my folks.
BEEBEE guns!!!
I mind my business, I expect my neighbors to do the same. If one of my neighbors, however, tells me to call the cops, he's just been held at gunpoint, I am supposed to ask him for details? Let's round up Big Snookie and them and have a talk with the robber's mom? This is pure fantasy.
You get robbed, call the cops. They find the theives, and ask you to ID, and that's them, tell the truth. What happens after that is anyone's guess. How did we even get to discussing said robbery with someone's parents or alleged guardians??
Because not everyone is you. Because certain neighborhoods have good reasons not to trust the cops the way you do. Because many would rather see kids acting up handled outside of the court system than in it. There are plenty of reasons.
But, just to be sure, you should probably have that sit-down with the crime boss Harvey's talking about. Maybe bring the crooked chief of police or a bad lieutenant to the meeting in the abandoned warehouse, too... They'll say, "I thought you knew to come alone," but really man, it's standard operating procedure in these types of situations...
be sure to film the car chase and put it on youtube, too...
The main regulating mens on my street are an ex-Marine drill sergeant and a dude that cuts his grass every 3 days and another dude that works for the school down the street...oh yeah, and an old kindhearted Mexican man with lots of family at the ready.
Y'all are the ones with the racing fantasies.
You are located in New Orleans, correct? If I got that right you have every right to be suspicious of the cops that have a rep for corruption and brutality that make my hometown police (Portland, OR) look like a model of law and order (We have had multiple police shooting incidences here).
While your neighborhood has its way of dealing with errant kids on its own, it doesn't mean the rest of us have those resources.
Some folks actually have functional Police departments that can be relied upon to deal with such activity (In PDX, not so much as we voted in a law (via our initiative process) that gun crimes, whether it involves the real deal or a toy, mandates jail time without any judicial discretion).
Your advice is based upon the conditions on the ground where you live. And given the nature of your Police justified for your locality. I have no idea where the OP is located, what the Police are like, the laws governing said crimes, or what the situation in the neighborhood is.
To the OP,
All I do know is, letting it slide is not the answer. Whether you deal with this via the justice system or some extra-judicial manner as Harvey has suggested, it needs to get dealt with. You know the conditions on the ground better than us and will have to make a judgment call on how to best resolve it.
/thread
I don't trust cops to do shit. And I live in one of those 'certain' neighborhoods, Harv. Kids 'acting up' is not robbing people at gunpoint, which I guess is the main you keep ignoring. Sure, if some little prick is stealing your kid's bike, duh, you can waste your time going to talk to their prick parent, or you can just walk over and get the damn bike. But if you don't want to use the system or the cops for shit like armed robbery, you are just asking for that same little prick to do worse the next time. then talk to me about how the village AND the system failed that kid when he (or one of his victims) gets shot dead over something stupid later on.
Thanks for the reasoned response. I'm from New Orleans but I'm now in Austin...where APD has killed a number of young minority kids over shady auspices just the past few years.
I dunno, I just can't fault a kid with a bb gun the same way I would fault a kid with a real gun. I don't think kids should get equal punishment for wielding a bb gun and I flat out don't believe in mandatory sentences (that is, unless they want to apply them to cases of rape and/or child molestation, as data proves that we can't trust the courts to handle such cases with the harshness they deserve).
But dude came into the thread questioning whether he should proceed with police intervention. So I gave my take...which is just an opinion, not a mandate.
I've had friends and non-friends for that matter shoot me with bb guns several different times in my life...some out of joking, others out of spite. It's not a deadly weapon and only an eye shot could cause much damage. It's certainly not something I would condone and like I said dudes in my world would still be dealth with...I just don't see it as an offense that deserves to have the kids' lives forever altered in x number of ways by throwing them into the court system.