I cannot stress enough that I am not a liberal apologist, but I do not think promoting acceptance of homosexuals, for example, is not even remotely the same as promoting racial and religious superiority, which is what I believe these people are doing.
Sure, I agree with you. But you asked what the liberal equivalent to Texas' current textbook proposals is and to the opposition, "promoting acceptance of homosexuals" IS the equivalent.
Actually, I was specifically asking Rockadelic what he thought was the liberal equivalent.
I cannot stress enough that I am not a liberal apologist, but I do not think promoting acceptance of homosexuals, for example, is not even remotely the same as promoting racial and religious superiority, which is what I believe these people are doing.
Sure, I agree with you. But you asked what the liberal equivalent to Texas' current textbook proposals is and to the opposition, "promoting acceptance of homosexuals" IS the equivalent.
Actually, I was specifically asking Rockadelic what he thought was the liberal equivalent.
This isn't about what "I" think, it's about the big picture and what society thinks as a whole.
[quote And to make things clear, I personally have no problem with teaching about "My Two Dads" or Creationism as long as they are taught in the correct context which is basically This is how some people live/believe.
Both these topics shoul take about 30 seconds to teach..
"Kids, listen, dudes fuck, it's all good. As for the other crackpot propagandists, sprouting spurious assertions and deliberately lying to unwitting fundamentalist weirdos, with the ultimate goal of fostering fear in weak minded individuals in order to sell salvation, fuck em'.......now lets move on to Galileo"
Is there actually a school system anywhere in America where "My Two Dads" is part of the official curriculum?
I don't think so.
That comparison is apples and oranges.
Injecting Creationism into science classes is ridiculous because Creationism is the stone opposite of science. If this is actually what Texas ends up doing then they're effectively announcing to the world that they're not interested in educating their kids by modern standards. They might as well teach kids Pig Latin instead of English in English classes.
Is there actually a school system anywhere in America where "My Two Dads" is part of the official curriculum?
If that's accurate then it seems a lot like the Texas ciriculum in question. Neither have been implemented and both have their supporters who would like to see them implemented.
While I am one billion percent certain the basic theory of Evolution is accurate I can understand those who oppose it for religious reasons.
Some Christians see teaching evolution as the Public School telling their children that their religion is a scam.
And you may say "Well their religion IS a friggin scam" and I'd understand that sentiment too.
But when the people who believe in Creationism are the majority, they are going to do their best to preserve(and further) their beliefs.
I say teach them both as theories and let the chips fall where they may, but like with a lot of things today a line has been drawn in the sand and you're "either with us or against us".
And if it concerns you enough, take the responsibilty of teaching this one very small lesson to your kids and don't rely on the public schools to teach this topic.
In my opinion a good percentage of teachers follow a ciriculum, but also teach from personal experience and beliefs. As a parent I may not always agree with these beliefs but if I allow said teacher to shape my child more than I do, I suck as a parent.
Is there actually a school system anywhere in America where "My Two Dads" is part of the official curriculum?
If that's accurate then it seems a lot like the Texas ciriculum in question. Neither have been implemented and both have their supporters who would like to see them implemented.
While I am one billion percent certain the basic theory of Evolution is accurate I can understand those who oppose it for religious reasons.
Some Christians see teaching evolution as the Public School telling their children that their religion is a scam.
And you may say "Well their religion IS a friggin scam" and I'd understand that sentiment too.
But when the people who believe in Creationism are the majority, they are going to do their best to preserve(and further) their beliefs.
I say teach them both as theories and let the chips fall where they may, but like with a lot of things today a line has been drawn in the sand and you're "either with us or against us".
And if it concerns you enough, take the responsibilty of teaching this one very small lesson to your kids and don't rely on the public schools to teach this topic.
In my opinion a good percentage of teachers follow a ciriculum, but also teach from personal experience and beliefs. As a parent I may not always agree with these beliefs but if I allow said teacher to shape my child more than I do, I suck as a parent.
I think the Christians that feel that the teaching of evolution is a dig at their religion is that particular offended Christian's problem, not the school's problem...I dont feel that state-sponsored education has to walk on eggshells nor even take people's religion into consideration when planning a curriculum.
Also creationism isn't a theory...its a myth...it hasnt been tested through the scientific method nor is there any empirical evidence. It would be misguided and irresponsible to teach creationism as a theory.
I would be all for a Jospeh Campbell-esque mythology class though...as that would be the only appropriate forum for the teaching of creationism.
Is there actually a school system anywhere in America where "My Two Dads" is part of the official curriculum?
If that's accurate then it seems a lot like the Texas ciriculum in question. Neither have been implemented and both have their supporters who would like to see them implemented.
While I am one billion percent certain the basic theory of Evolution is accurate I can understand those who oppose it for religious reasons.
Some Christians see teaching evolution as the Public School telling their children that their religion is a scam.
And you may say "Well their religion IS a friggin scam" and I'd understand that sentiment too.
But when the people who believe in Creationism are the majority, they are going to do their best to preserve(and further) their beliefs.
I say teach them both as theories and let the chips fall where they may, but like with a lot of things today a line has been drawn in the sand and you're "either with us or against us".
The problem I have with this is that you're allowing pure ignorance to infect science classes. I think (and I think most people think) that what's taught in science classes should be SCIENCE. Not bullshit mythology.
The Scopes Trial took place almost a century ago and made Tennessee the laughingstock of the nation. If Texans allow these uneducated anti-science characters to mandate the teaching of Creationism as science then Texas becomes the Boob Capital of the Western world.
I would think educated Texans would be fighting this hammer and tong, not wimping out with stuff like "teach them both as theories." There's no scientific evidence for Creationism. None. If you want to have a World Religion/Mythology class that presents creation myths I'm all for it, but teaching this garbage in science classes is just irrational.
Y'all are way off base here. The problem is not that Texas wants to make its children more retarded, it's that the US "textbook industry" is controlled by a handful of corporations (like all media) who are only interested in establishing significant market share (like any business). As a result, they must cater their materials to the largest markets (Texas, California, and New York). Kids all across the country are going to have misinformation shoved down their throats, though it is unlikely they will actually be literate enough to read the material anyway. Or pulled out of their diabetic comas long enough to focus on boring textbooks instead of video games, or whatever.
I personally dream of an America where our children celebrate the achievements of the "Atlantic triangular trade."
How does anyone as dumb as this Cynthia Dunbar woman become a lawyer? Seriously. It's hard to give lawyers a bad name, but she's sure trying...Clearly our deist and Unitarian founding fathers loved Jesus, what with Thomas Jefferson tearing out all the pages of his Bible about miracles and what not...It's so easy to become an authority on history, you don't even have to know anything about it! What a great example FOR THE KIDS!
If you guys want to hear about some liberal biases regarding textbooks and standardized testing, I recommend "The Language Police" by by Diane Ravitch. There are too many to discuss here. It also elucidates how the "textbook industry" works, if anyone is interested.
And could we PLEASE stop fucking talking about "creationism vs. evolution" on here. It's this kind of superfluous, ultimately irrelevant debate that distracts from the real issue, which is these people want to make your children retarded. Stop feeding the beast.
There are many "theories of evolution", not just Darwinism which is taught in most schools.
I have no problem with public schools teaching in a science class that there was once a theory/belief held by a great number of people that the world was flat....and that this theory was eventually dispelled.
And subsequently I'd have no problem with Creationism being taught as a theory/belief along with the scientific facts that either support or dispel that belief.
Our children are smart....give them ALL the info out there and they will figure out what makes sense and what doesn't.....the same way we did.
To prove this point, how many of you were raised in a religious household but no longer hold those beliefs??? Wha Happened?
the beginning for my disbelief was Catholic High School...I went to a Christian Brothers High School...my freshman religion teacher (freshman year was the study of the Old Testament) taught by a Brother John. He taught us that the bible was completely allegorical...Moses didnt really live to be 900 years old, Noah's Ark didnt really exsist as it would be impossible to put 2 of everything, etc...the creationism story was just that, a story...so the roots of questioning it all began there. Then, my freshman year at Texas Christian University I took biology (went on to minor in it) and learned evolutionary theory and that raised even more doubt in me and it finally culminated, with more and more science classes, that the last tiny thread of my believing that there is a god that made it all with a swipe of his hand or whatever people think God does to create things wasnt at all true.
Rational, scientific people at Christian institutions helped me to discover it isnt true.
the beginning for my disbelief was Catholic High School...I went to a Christian Brothers High School...my freshman religion teacher (freshman year was the study of the Old Testament) taught by a Brother John. He taught us that the bible was completely allegorical...Moses didnt really live to be 900 years old, Noah's Ark didnt really exsist as it would be impossible to put 2 of everything, etc...the creationism story was just that, a story...so the roots of questioning it all began there. Then, my freshman year at Texas Christian University I took biology (went on to minor in it) and learned evolutionary theory and that raised even more doubt in me and it finally culminated, with more and more science classes, that the last tiny thread of my believing that there is a god that made it all with a swipe of his hand or whatever people think God does to create things wasnt at all true.
Rational, scientific people at Christian institutions helped me to discover it isnt true.
Bloody hellfire. That long? I was 6 or 7, and our school assembly usually consisted of saying a prayer near the end. The school I went to was about 80% black/Bangladeshi/Pakistani, and one morning I was sitting between two Muslim kids, and when the teacher said, "Put your hands together and close your eyes for the Lord's prayer", I was obviously aware this time that both the kids next to me weren't doing this. So then I looked up around the hall and realised there were loads of kids, of different colours and faiths (or lack-of), who also weren't praying. That was the last time I ever did something a teacher told me to without questioning it first, and the last time I ever prayed.
Bloody hellfire. That long? I was 6 or 7, and our school assembly usually consisted of saying a prayer near the end. The school I went to was about 80% black/Bangladeshi/Pakistani, and one morning I was sitting between two Muslim kids, and when the teacher said, "Put your hands together and close your eyes for the Lord's prayer", I was obviously aware this time that both the kids next to me weren't doing this. So then I looked up around the hall and realised there were loads of kids, of different colours and faiths (or lack-of), who also weren't praying. That was the last time I ever did something a teacher told me to without questioning it first, and the last time I ever prayed.
wow, congrats on being so enlightened at a much younger age than my dumb, gullible ass...it must feel good to be so much wiser than everyone else.
Bloody hellfire. That long? I was 6 or 7, and our school assembly usually consisted of saying a prayer near the end. The school I went to was about 80% black/Bangladeshi/Pakistani, and one morning I was sitting between two Muslim kids, and when the teacher said, "Put your hands together and close your eyes for the Lord's prayer", I was obviously aware this time that both the kids next to me weren't doing this. So then I looked up around the hall and realised there were loads of kids, of different colours and faiths (or lack-of), who also weren't praying. That was the last time I ever did something a teacher told me to without questioning it first, and the last time I ever prayed.
wow, congrats on being so enlightened at a much younger age than my dumb, gullible ass...it must feel good to be so much wiser than everyone else.
Christian: "If we could just convert these non-believers the world would be a much better place".
Non-Believer: "If we could just convince all these Christians that their entire belief system is BS the world would be a better place".
Rest of Worlder: if we could just un-brainwash these Merikids from believing God chose them to rule the earth we might stand a chance of avoiding some future wars.
No wonder the CEO of Goldmans was telling the world that his bank were Doing God's Work. Sucked it in at the teat, he did.
Honestly, this some shameful shite that is being promoted. And now a lot of you dudes falling under Rocks relentless hypnotic incantations and personal anecdotes are buying it.
Bloody hellfire. That long? I was 6 or 7, and our school assembly usually consisted of saying a prayer near the end. The school I went to was about 80% black/Bangladeshi/Pakistani, and one morning I was sitting between two Muslim kids, and when the teacher said, "Put your hands together and close your eyes for the Lord's prayer", I was obviously aware this time that both the kids next to me weren't doing this. So then I looked up around the hall and realised there were loads of kids, of different colours and faiths (or lack-of), who also weren't praying. That was the last time I ever did something a teacher told me to without questioning it first, and the last time I ever prayed.
wow, congrats on being so enlightened at a much younger age than my dumb, gullible ass...it must feel good to be so much wiser than everyone else.
Fret not. Religion was never even discussed in my house, and English attitudes to religion are very different to American attitudes*, so it was more a case of why would I believe than why wouldn't I. Not trying to make out like I was some prodigal Solomon, just a different environment, and from the people I grew up with in England, my experience wasn't at all abnormal.
Bloody hellfire. That long? I was 6 or 7, and our school assembly usually consisted of saying a prayer near the end. The school I went to was about 80% black/Bangladeshi/Pakistani, and one morning I was sitting between two Muslim kids, and when the teacher said, "Put your hands together and close your eyes for the Lord's prayer", I was obviously aware this time that both the kids next to me weren't doing this. So then I looked up around the hall and realised there were loads of kids, of different colours and faiths (or lack-of), who also weren't praying. That was the last time I ever did something a teacher told me to without questioning it first, and the last time I ever prayed.
wow, congrats on being so enlightened at a much younger age than my dumb, gullible ass...it must feel good to be so much wiser than everyone else.
Christian: "If we could just convert these non-believers the world would be a much better place".
Non-Believer: "If we could just convince all these Christians that their entire belief system is BS the world would be a better place".
That's a bit of a generalisation.
Christianity is an explicitly missionary religion (as opposed to something like Judaism).
On the other hand, most non-religious people are content to let others get on with worshipping whoever they want. There is no mass movement of non-believers seeking to un-convert Christians.
Comments
Actually, I was specifically asking Rockadelic what he thought was the liberal equivalent.
This isn't about what "I" think, it's about the big picture and what society thinks as a whole.
To be fair, Queen did rule.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/...n1.4c2da2f.html
I can see folks turning this into some sort of high tech skeet shoot.
And to make things clear, I personally have no problem with teaching about "My Two Dads" or Creationism as long as they are taught in the correct context which is basically This is how some people live/believe.
Both these topics shoul take about 30 seconds to teach..
"Kids, listen, dudes fuck, it's all good. As for the other crackpot propagandists, sprouting spurious assertions and deliberately lying to unwitting fundamentalist weirdos, with the ultimate goal of fostering fear in weak minded individuals in order to sell salvation, fuck em'.......now lets move on to Galileo"
I don't think so.
That comparison is apples and oranges.
Injecting Creationism into science classes is ridiculous because Creationism is the stone opposite of science. If this is actually what Texas ends up doing then they're effectively announcing to the world that they're not interested in educating their kids by modern standards. They might as well teach kids Pig Latin instead of English in English classes.
If that's accurate then it seems a lot like the Texas ciriculum in question. Neither have been implemented and both have their supporters who would like to see them implemented.
While I am one billion percent certain the basic theory of Evolution is accurate I can understand those who oppose it for religious reasons.
Some Christians see teaching evolution as the Public School telling their children that their religion is a scam.
And you may say "Well their religion IS a friggin scam" and I'd understand that sentiment too.
But when the people who believe in Creationism are the majority, they are going to do their best to preserve(and further) their beliefs.
I say teach them both as theories and let the chips fall where they may, but like with a lot of things today a line has been drawn in the sand and you're "either with us or against us".
And if it concerns you enough, take the responsibilty of teaching this one very small lesson to your kids and don't rely on the public schools to teach this topic.
In my opinion a good percentage of teachers follow a ciriculum, but also teach from personal experience and beliefs. As a parent I may not always agree with these beliefs but if I allow said teacher to shape my child more than I do, I suck as a parent.
I think the Christians that feel that the teaching of evolution is a dig at their religion is that particular offended Christian's problem, not the school's problem...I dont feel that state-sponsored education has to walk on eggshells nor even take people's religion into consideration when planning a curriculum.
Also creationism isn't a theory...its a myth...it hasnt been tested through the scientific method nor is there any empirical evidence. It would be misguided and irresponsible to teach creationism as a theory.
I would be all for a Jospeh Campbell-esque mythology class though...as that would be the only appropriate forum for the teaching of creationism.
The problem I have with this is that you're allowing pure ignorance to infect science classes. I think (and I think most people think) that what's taught in science classes should be SCIENCE. Not bullshit mythology.
The Scopes Trial took place almost a century ago and made Tennessee the laughingstock of the nation. If Texans allow these uneducated anti-science characters to mandate the teaching of Creationism as science then Texas becomes the Boob Capital of the Western world.
I would think educated Texans would be fighting this hammer and tong, not wimping out with stuff like "teach them both as theories." There's no scientific evidence for Creationism. None. If you want to have a World Religion/Mythology class that presents creation myths I'm all for it, but teaching this garbage in science classes is just irrational.
I personally dream of an America where our children celebrate the achievements of the "Atlantic triangular trade."
How does anyone as dumb as this Cynthia Dunbar woman become a lawyer? Seriously. It's hard to give lawyers a bad name, but she's sure trying...Clearly our deist and Unitarian founding fathers loved Jesus, what with Thomas Jefferson tearing out all the pages of his Bible about miracles and what not...It's so easy to become an authority on history, you don't even have to know anything about it! What a great example FOR THE KIDS!
If you guys want to hear about some liberal biases regarding textbooks and standardized testing, I recommend "The Language Police" by by Diane Ravitch. There are too many to discuss here. It also elucidates how the "textbook industry" works, if anyone is interested.
And could we PLEASE stop fucking talking about "creationism vs. evolution" on here. It's this kind of superfluous, ultimately irrelevant debate that distracts from the real issue, which is these people want to make your children retarded. Stop feeding the beast.
I have no problem with public schools teaching in a science class that there was once a theory/belief held by a great number of people that the world was flat....and that this theory was eventually dispelled.
And subsequently I'd have no problem with Creationism being taught as a theory/belief along with the scientific facts that either support or dispel that belief.
Our children are smart....give them ALL the info out there and they will figure out what makes sense and what doesn't.....the same way we did.
To prove this point, how many of you were raised in a religious household but no longer hold those beliefs??? Wha Happened?
Rational, scientific people at Christian institutions helped me to discover it isnt true.
Ironic?
There ya go.
Bloody hellfire. That long? I was 6 or 7, and our school assembly usually consisted of saying a prayer near the end. The school I went to was about 80% black/Bangladeshi/Pakistani, and one morning I was sitting between two Muslim kids, and when the teacher said, "Put your hands together and close your eyes for the Lord's prayer", I was obviously aware this time that both the kids next to me weren't doing this. So then I looked up around the hall and realised there were loads of kids, of different colours and faiths (or lack-of), who also weren't praying. That was the last time I ever did something a teacher told me to without questioning it first, and the last time I ever prayed.
wow, congrats on being so enlightened at a much younger age than my dumb, gullible ass...it must feel good to be so much wiser than everyone else.
Christian: "If we could just convert these non-believers the world would be a much better place".
Non-Believer: "If we could just convince all these Christians that their entire belief system is BS the world would be a better place".
People in Norway often refer to something completely chaotic as "totally Texas"
And now back to your scheduled programming.
No wonder the CEO of Goldmans was telling the world that his bank were Doing God's Work. Sucked it in at the teat, he did.
Honestly, this some shameful shite that is being promoted.
And now a lot of you dudes falling under Rocks relentless hypnotic incantations and personal anecdotes are buying it.
Fret not. Religion was never even discussed in my house, and English attitudes to religion are very different to American attitudes*, so it was more a case of why would I believe than why wouldn't I. Not trying to make out like I was some prodigal Solomon, just a different environment, and from the people I grew up with in England, my experience wasn't at all abnormal.
* I did school in US as well.
That's a bit of a generalisation.
Christianity is an explicitly missionary religion (as opposed to something like Judaism).
On the other hand, most non-religious people are content to let others get on with worshipping whoever they want. There is no mass movement of non-believers seeking to un-convert Christians.
Damn.....the site construction won't allow me to put this as my location!
I can see it...
DAMN! YOU MUST'VE GOTTEN TO ME TOO!
Friggin magic up in this place!!!
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/embed-player/?episodemediaid=1494121591