Phobos is one of two orbiting moons of Mars, there is a giant monolith on Phobos (there are pictures). Recent Russion satalite info puts the 16 mile wide hamburger shaped moon as being 1/3 hollow. There is much speculation on the orgin of Phobos as it does not fit squarely into our traditional measurement of what a moon is.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
There is plenty of proof. Many just deny it.
Just to make sure we're all on the same terms, evidence suggests something, proof proves that it is fact.
Sorry, but all of that is hogwash. Whether we perceive that something is true is independent of whether it's actually true or not. We can think the world is flat for centuries and call it "proven"...but that doesn't make the world flat, now does it?
people have actually known the world was round since before the time of "christ". The had even calculated the approximate size. Back in like the days of rome or something.
people have actually known the world was round since before the time of "christ". The had even calculated the approximate size. Back in like the days of rome or something.
The point though is that "proof" evolves as science evolves. The idea of Ptolemaic universe was once accepted as "fact" before technology suggested a heliocentric model and even then, you had very powerful forces in societies willfully trying to suppress such a paradigm shift regardless of the "proof" that existed.
There's also the fluidity of what we accept as proof.
For some, even if a UFO landed on the White House lawn, in front of a gazillion cameras, and an alien walked out to meet the President...that wouldn't be accepted as proof.
In the same way I explain the millions of people who see angels, or ghosts and believe 'God' speaks to them. It's human nature to want to believe that there is something bigger than us 'out there'.
I can definitely see that. I also know that many credible people with much to lose have come out in defense of it being true. This is one of those things where people need proof it exists and others need proof it does not.
It's the same as religion in both the action of faith versus evidence, and its utility for the human psyche. I read a rather convincing argument that religion is man's answer to the human species' unique ability to think abstractly and thus forsee our own individual mortality. In order to make our lives worthwhile, there must be something beyond our own temporary survival and finite lifespan.
The difference between this and religion is, Mary might appear on a piece of toast where as these things....?
You guys can laugh at this all you want, but I'm not some crazy dude talking about lizard people coming to fuck your grandma. I'm talking about very credible people saying "this is true" at the expense of their reputation, public ridicule and their careers and for what? A joke? Take Gordon Cooper & Edgar Mitchell, both astronauts (the latter of which walked on the moon[/b]) who came out publicly saying UFO's are real.
I'm more inclined to believe them than someone telling me different with nothing to back it up.
I could be here all day but I don't want to waste any more time trying to make my point. To each his own. Any way it goes, this shit is interesting to me.
man if anybody here is an alien it's oliver fucking wang.
i'm not saying anything, i'm just saying.
has anybody here ever seen him eat? in person? i know i haven't. aliens don't eat like humans do, thats why. has anybody here ever seen him use the toilet? aliens don't take dumps. its not in their physiolosphicology to do so.
You can prove it doesn't exist by giving a human/earthly explanation for whatever it is people are seeing or experiencing. It's a catch 22 and that's why I just respect what people believe and do my own thing. I'm actually more skeptical than I've ever been after looking into this schitt. I'm also sure life exists beyond our own.
The burden of proof is always on the one making a "spectacular" claim.
For example I can tell you that pink unicorns exist. You might say to me "prove it". Then I reply "prove they don't". You can't. It's impossible. How would you go about it? Do you start wandering the earth looking for one? Of course not.]
With all due respect, if I see something that looks like a pink unicorn and you tell me it's just the sun reflecting off a horse's ass, I'm going to need you to prove that to me
What would be the motivation to deny something when there is plenty of proof of it?
Can you provide a few examples? And by proof I mean something that could not be easily faked or has no other explanation.
Try to explain the Dogon tribe/Sirius B thing I mentioned above. The Dogons explain it by saying alien creatures came down to Earth and taught them such a thing. I personally believe them.
You can prove it doesn't exist by giving a human/earthly explanation for whatever it is people are seeing or experiencing. It's a catch 22 and that's why I just respect what people believe and do my own thing. I'm actually more skeptical than I've ever been after looking into this schitt. I'm also sure life exists beyond our own.
The burden of proof is always on the one making a "spectacular" claim.
For example I can tell you that pink unicorns exist. You might say to me "prove it". Then I reply "prove they don't". You can't. It's impossible. How would you go about it? Do you start wandering the earth looking for one? Of course not.]
With all due respect, if I see something that looks like a pink unicorn and you tell me it's just the sun reflecting off a horse's ass, I'm going to need you to prove that to me
At least I was given the respect I was due.
I'm pretty sure we had this convo before at the red fox room.
You guys can laugh at this all you want, but I'm not some crazy dude talking about lizard people coming to fuck your grandma. I'm talking about very credible people saying "this is true" at the expense of their reputation, public ridicule and their careers and for what? A joke? Take Gordon Cooper & Edgar Mitchell, both astronauts (the latter of which walked on the moon[/b]) who came out publicly saying UFO's are real.
I'm more inclined to believe them than someone telling me different with nothing to back it up.
I could be here all day but I don't want to waste any more time trying to make my point. To each his own. Any way it goes, this shit is interesting to me.
Like you said, each to his own. IMO there's nothing wrong with believing, or wanting to believe in UFOs. As long as you don't take it too seriously.
What would be the motivation to deny something when there is plenty of proof of it?
Can you provide a few examples? And by proof I mean something that could not be easily faked or has no other explanation.
Try to explain the Dogon tribe/Sirius B thing I mentioned above. The Dogons explain it by saying alien creatures came down to Earth and taught them such a thing. I personally believe them.
I absolutely believe in UFOs - the evidence at this point is so overwhelming that it requires a greater act of faith to deny them than it does to believe in them.
Plus I saw a bunch of them once on Race Point in broad daylight.
I find it odd, ,though, that there is essentially no evidence of aliens whatsoever, at least none that is available to the public.
You can prove it doesn't exist by giving a human/earthly explanation for whatever it is people are seeing or experiencing. It's a catch 22 and that's why I just respect what people believe and do my own thing. I'm actually more skeptical than I've ever been after looking into this schitt. I'm also sure life exists beyond our own.
The burden of proof is always on the one making a "spectacular" claim.
For example I can tell you that pink unicorns exist. You might say to me "prove it". Then I reply "prove they don't". You can't. It's impossible. How would you go about it? Do you start wandering the earth looking for one? Of course not.]
With all due respect, if I see something that looks like a pink unicorn and you tell me it's just the sun reflecting off a horse's ass, I'm going to need you to prove that to me
At least I was given the respect I was due.
I'm pretty sure we had this convo before at the red fox room.
Yeah, but we were drunk!
People should go back and read the first link I posted. J. Allen Hynek was a consultant in astronomy for the US Airforce. He worked on Project Bluebook which was the government's "official" answer to UFO phenomenon. He specifically set out to debunk the cases that came their way. After a few years of working on the project he did a complete 180.
Change of opinion[/b]
Hynek's opinions about UFOs began a slow and gradual shift. After examining hundreds of UFO reports over the decades (including some made by credible witnesses, including astronomers, pilots, police officers, and military personnel), Hynek concluded that some reports represented genuine empirical observations.
Another shift in Hynek's opinions came after conducting an informal poll of his astronomer colleagues in the early 1950s. Among those he queried was Dr. Clyde Tombaugh, who discovered the dwarf planet Pluto. Of 44 astronomers, five (over 11 percent) had seen aerial objects that they could not account for with established, mainstream science. Most of these astronomers had not widely shared their accounts for fear of ridicule or of damage to their reputations or careers (Tombaugh was an exception, having openly discussed his own UFO sightings). Hynek also noted that this 11% figure was, according to most polls, greater than those in the general public who claimed to have seen UFOs. Furthermore, the astronomers were presumably more knowledgeable about observing and evaluating the skies than the general public, so their observations were arguably more impressive. Hynek was also distressed by what he regarded as the dismissive or arrogant attitude of many mainstream scientists towards UFO reports and witnesses. There are thousands of cases dating back almost a thousand years all over the planet and I find it hard to believe that there is no merit to any of them.
You guys can laugh at this all you want, but I'm not some crazy dude talking about lizard people coming to fuck your grandma. I'm talking about very credible people saying "this is true" at the expense of their reputation, public ridicule and their careers and for what? A joke? Take Gordon Cooper & Edgar Mitchell, both astronauts (the latter of which walked on the moon[/b]) who came out publicly saying UFO's are real.
I'm more inclined to believe them than someone telling me different with nothing to back it up.
I could be here all day but I don't want to waste any more time trying to make my point. To each his own. Any way it goes, this shit is interesting to me.
Like you said, each to his own. IMO there's nothing wrong with believing, or wanting to believe in UFOs. As long as you don't take it too seriously.
Definitely. And I don't at all. I just happened to be reading about it the last few days. I will say it feels like you have to defend your opinion twofold when dealing with a topic like this, though. I'm not trying to come off like our resident tinfoil crown holder.
Well epilectic seizures aren't proof of demonic possession. They are proof of epilipsy, but until we understood what epilipsy was I'm sure demonic possession seemed like the most logical answer.
Which is not to say that I have no problem with anybody beleiving in UFOs or Aliens or anything like that.
People used to see green ghosts in the swamps of the bayou. Turns out swamps just belch out green gas once in a while. So yeah, people saw green mist and thought "holy shit thats a ghost!" until a more rational explanation came along.
I don't doubt that people see shit all the time they can't explain flying through the air. But that is not enough to make me think they are aliens.
I mean, really, I have no idea if we are visited by aliens or not.
You guys can laugh at this all you want, but I'm not some crazy dude talking about lizard people coming to fuck your grandma. I'm talking about very credible people saying "this is true" at the expense of their reputation, public ridicule and their careers and for what? A joke? Take Gordon Cooper & Edgar Mitchell, both astronauts (the latter of which walked on the moon[/b]) who came out publicly saying UFO's are real.
I'm more inclined to believe them than someone telling me different with nothing to back it up.
I could be here all day but I don't want to waste any more time trying to make my point. To each his own. Any way it goes, this shit is interesting to me.
Like you said, each to his own. IMO there's nothing wrong with believing, or wanting to believe in UFOs. As long as you don't take it too seriously.
Definitely. And I don't at all. I just happened to be reading about it the last few days. I will say it feels like you have to defend your opinion twofold when dealing with a topic like this, though. I'm not trying to come off like our resident tin crown holder.
I read that link you put on FB and was totally entertained. There certainly is plenty of stuff that happens that seemingly has no rational explanation. Look at the birthers. I can't explain the existance of thosse people to save my life.
I find it odd, ,though, that there is essentially no evidence of aliens whatsoever, at least none that is available to the public.
If we're operating in the realm of rampant speculation, I can totally believe that if such evidence existed, there'd be a compelling reason to keep them hidden from the public.
Personally, I always thought the realm of sci-fi did a good job of imagining through these scenarios. If an intelligent civilization visited Earth at some point, what would be their compulsion to leave an artifact behind, proving so? It's all about the Prime Directive, mang!
I find it odd, ,though, that there is essentially no evidence of aliens whatsoever, at least none that is available to the public.
If we're operating in the realm of rampant speculation, I can totally believe that if such evidence existed, there'd be a compelling reason to keep them hidden from the public.
Personally, I always thought the realm of sci-fi did a good job of imagining through these scenarios. If an intelligent civilization visited Earth at some point, what would be their compulsion to leave an artifact behind, proving so? It's all about the Prime Directive, mang!
typical alien misdirection tactics, Oliver, if that IS your real name.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
There is plenty of proof. Many just deny it.
What would be the motivation to deny something when there is plenty of proof of it?
Can you provide a few examples? And by proof I mean something that could not be easily faked or has no other explanation.
Try to explain the Dogon tribe/Sirius B thing I mentioned above. The Dogons explain it by saying alien creatures came down to Earth and taught them such a thing. I personally believe them.
Although I would like to see a response to this debunking from Temple himself before I just adopt a random 500 word internet blurp as the last word on the subject.
IIRC, the Dogon were incorrect about the number of rings of Saturn and also believed that it was the furthest planet from the Sun. From what I've heard, they were also wrong about the number of moons around Jupiter.
How does this grok with secret alien knowledge?
A lot of the information that we have about the Dogon has only come to be known in recent times times - well after beginning contact with the outside world. It's quite possible that a lot of what we know about their beliefs and culture has been filtered through our own understanding of reality, and has been altered so that it fits with our prejudices, etc.
i need that chart... you know... that one with the scales of earth and stuff..
ps. not only are you not the only life in the universe, your not the only life on this planet...those of you who believe you are the only life in the universe are incredibly arrogant...and in for some shit, as the kids say..
You can prove it doesn't exist by giving a human/earthly explanation for whatever it is people are seeing or experiencing. It's a catch 22 and that's why I just respect what people believe and do my own thing.
That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means those particular people didn't happen to see it.
I find it odd, ,though, that there is essentially no evidence of aliens whatsoever, at least none that is available to the public.
Perhaps we're existing at the wrong point in time. The universe is billions of years old comprised of billions of stars and billions X billions of planets. In that time frame advanced civilizations could have developed, zoomed all over the galaxy, perished, and had all of their existence wiped through interstellar erosion. Think about dinosaurs - they lived here millions of years and were all gone by the time humans first inhabited Bedrock. (no Dino).
And it all could've happened the next galaxy over for all we know. Hell, it could've happened on Mars. An entire civilization could be buried 10 feet under the surface (of Mars) and we would never know.
Think about dinosaurs - they lived here millions of years and were all gone by the time humans first inhabited Bedrock. (no Dino).
forget about dinosaurs, what about before that when insects like dragonflys and centipedes were the size of cars because earth had more oxygen at the time. i'm weirded out that birds, fish and mammals came from reptiles. evolution is so crazy
Man is gradually evolving to have bigger noses and four toes. That's right, our air is getting dirtier and your pinky toe is not the best way to walk or run.
BTW, the "Big Rip" is hotly debated. Many physicists feel based on universe expansion rates that instead of a "Big Rip" there will just be a slow choking freeze death or the "Slow Entropy." The edges of the universe will be the last to die because they are the youngest and have the most energy. FWIW, from what I've read recently in physics debates, I feel that things like dark matter and dark energy are just a place holders until scientists really figure out IN FULL what gravity really is, how it runs the universe and how to use its properties effectively to travel in space.
Which leads me to the next point about UFOs and aliens. The likelihood of aliens in other worlds based on the Drake Equation is great, as well as the planets and planetoids that have been found in other star systems adds to our overall knowledge of the possibilities of life elsewhere with substantive evidence. What all this DOES NOT say is any other life form's ability to reach Earth. Space travel is incredibly difficult, and things like Star Trek's transporter room are NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE due to issues of efficiency and accuracy, as well as perfect replication and personality/memory retention. If UFOs represent alien life coming to Earth, they quite possibly are not the life forms from the original planet, but some type of drone sent to do the bidding and research of the home planet. Biological life forms (as we know them) that are complex enough to form a mass of flesh like a human do not like extremes. This includes being bombarded while in space by cosmic rays, x rays, gamma rays, as well as withstanding space travel that requires speeds approaching the speed of light while maintaining your body's structure, as well as the structure of the ship maintaining its stability.
If fabled particle the tachyon actually existed, which theoretically functions at speeds faster than the speed of light, perhaps space travel would be "more manageable." What's interesting about the tachyon, and I have not really heard anyone talk about, is IF it existed, how would it be measured? Could the human eye even see it? Things to think about.
Comments
looks like a rock to me.
Sorry, but all of that is hogwash. Whether we perceive that something is true is independent of whether it's actually true or not. We can think the world is flat for centuries and call it "proven"...but that doesn't make the world flat, now does it?
The point though is that "proof" evolves as science evolves. The idea of Ptolemaic universe was once accepted as "fact" before technology suggested a heliocentric model and even then, you had very powerful forces in societies willfully trying to suppress such a paradigm shift regardless of the "proof" that existed.
There's also the fluidity of what we accept as proof.
For some, even if a UFO landed on the White House lawn, in front of a gazillion cameras, and an alien walked out to meet the President...that wouldn't be accepted as proof.
Proof is shades of gray, not black and white.
The difference between this and religion is, Mary might appear on a piece of toast where as these things....?
You guys can laugh at this all you want, but I'm not some crazy dude talking about lizard people coming to fuck your grandma. I'm talking about very credible people saying "this is true" at the expense of their reputation, public ridicule and their careers and for what? A joke? Take Gordon Cooper & Edgar Mitchell, both astronauts (the latter of which walked on the moon[/b]) who came out publicly saying UFO's are real.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Cooper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell
I'm more inclined to believe them than someone telling me different with nothing to back it up.
I could be here all day but I don't want to waste any more time trying to make my point. To each his own. Any way it goes, this shit is interesting to me.
i'm not saying anything, i'm just saying.
has anybody here ever seen him eat? in person? i know i haven't. aliens don't eat like humans do, thats why. has anybody here ever seen him use the toilet? aliens don't take dumps. its not in their physiolosphicology to do so.
With all due respect, if I see something that looks like a pink unicorn and you tell me it's just the sun reflecting off a horse's ass, I'm going to need you to prove that to me
http://www.badarchaeology.net/extraterrestrial/sirius.php
At least I was given the respect I was due.
I'm pretty sure we had this convo before at the red fox room.
Like you said, each to his own. IMO there's nothing wrong with believing, or wanting to believe in UFOs.
As long as you don't take it too seriously.
Another mystery solved.
Plus I saw a bunch of them once on Race Point in broad daylight.
I find it odd, ,though, that there is essentially no evidence of aliens whatsoever, at least none that is available to the public.
Yeah, but we were drunk!
People should go back and read the first link I posted. J. Allen Hynek was a consultant in astronomy for the US Airforce. He worked on Project Bluebook which was the government's "official" answer to UFO phenomenon. He specifically set out to debunk the cases that came their way. After a few years of working on the project he did a complete 180.
Change of opinion[/b]
Hynek's opinions about UFOs began a slow and gradual shift. After examining hundreds of UFO reports over the decades (including some made by credible witnesses, including astronomers, pilots, police officers, and military personnel), Hynek concluded that some reports represented genuine empirical observations.
Another shift in Hynek's opinions came after conducting an informal poll of his astronomer colleagues in the early 1950s. Among those he queried was Dr. Clyde Tombaugh, who discovered the dwarf planet Pluto. Of 44 astronomers, five (over 11 percent) had seen aerial objects that they could not account for with established, mainstream science. Most of these astronomers had not widely shared their accounts for fear of ridicule or of damage to their reputations or careers (Tombaugh was an exception, having openly discussed his own UFO sightings). Hynek also noted that this 11% figure was, according to most polls, greater than those in the general public who claimed to have seen UFOs. Furthermore, the astronomers were presumably more knowledgeable about observing and evaluating the skies than the general public, so their observations were arguably more impressive. Hynek was also distressed by what he regarded as the dismissive or arrogant attitude of many mainstream scientists towards UFO reports and witnesses.
There are thousands of cases dating back almost a thousand years all over the planet and I find it hard to believe that there is no merit to any of them.
Definitely. And I don't at all. I just happened to be reading about it the last few days. I will say it feels like you have to defend your opinion twofold when dealing with a topic like this, though. I'm not trying to come off like our resident tinfoil crown holder.
Which is not to say that I have no problem with anybody beleiving in UFOs or Aliens or anything like that.
People used to see green ghosts in the swamps of the bayou. Turns out swamps just belch out green gas once in a while. So yeah, people saw green mist and thought "holy shit thats a ghost!" until a more rational explanation came along.
I don't doubt that people see shit all the time they can't explain flying through the air. But that is not enough to make me think they are aliens.
I mean, really, I have no idea if we are visited by aliens or not.
I read that link you put on FB and was totally entertained. There certainly is plenty of stuff that happens that seemingly has no rational explanation. Look at the birthers. I can't explain the existance of thosse people to save my life.
If we're operating in the realm of rampant speculation, I can totally believe that if such evidence existed, there'd be a compelling reason to keep them hidden from the public.
Personally, I always thought the realm of sci-fi did a good job of imagining through these scenarios. If an intelligent civilization visited Earth at some point, what would be their compulsion to leave an artifact behind, proving so? It's all about the Prime Directive, mang!
typical alien misdirection tactics, Oliver, if that IS your real name.
Doh!
Although I would like to see a response to this debunking from Temple himself before I just adopt a random 500 word internet blurp as the last word on the subject.
IIRC, the Dogon were incorrect about the number of rings of Saturn and also believed that it was the furthest planet from the Sun.
From what I've heard, they were also wrong about the number of moons around Jupiter.
How does this grok with secret alien knowledge?
A lot of the information that we have about the Dogon has only come to be known in recent times times - well after beginning contact with the outside world. It's quite possible that a lot of what we know about their beliefs and culture has been filtered through our own understanding of reality, and has been altered so that it fits with our prejudices, etc.
ps. not only are you not the only life in the universe, your not the only life on this planet...those of you who believe you are the only life in the universe are incredibly arrogant...and in for some shit, as the kids say..
That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means those particular people didn't happen to see it.
Perhaps we're existing at the wrong point in time. The universe is billions of years old comprised of billions of stars and billions X billions of planets. In that time frame advanced civilizations could have developed, zoomed all over the galaxy, perished, and had all of their existence wiped through interstellar erosion. Think about dinosaurs - they lived here millions of years and were all gone by the time humans first inhabited Bedrock. (no Dino).
And it all could've happened the next galaxy over for all we know. Hell, it could've happened on Mars. An entire civilization could be buried 10 feet under the surface (of Mars) and we would never know.
my man: http://andabien.com/html/evolution-timeline.htm?=9738234
forget about dinosaurs, what about before that when insects like dragonflys and centipedes were the size of cars because earth had more oxygen at the time. i'm weirded out that birds, fish and mammals came from reptiles. evolution is so crazy
BTW, the "Big Rip" is hotly debated. Many physicists feel based on universe expansion rates that instead of a "Big Rip" there will just be a slow choking freeze death or the "Slow Entropy." The edges of the universe will be the last to die because they are the youngest and have the most energy. FWIW, from what I've read recently in physics debates, I feel that things like dark matter and dark energy are just a place holders until scientists really figure out IN FULL what gravity really is, how it runs the universe and how to use its properties effectively to travel in space.
Which leads me to the next point about UFOs and aliens. The likelihood of aliens in other worlds based on the Drake Equation is great, as well as the planets and planetoids that have been found in other star systems adds to our overall knowledge of the possibilities of life elsewhere with substantive evidence. What all this DOES NOT say is any other life form's ability to reach Earth. Space travel is incredibly difficult, and things like Star Trek's transporter room are NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE due to issues of efficiency and accuracy, as well as perfect replication and personality/memory retention. If UFOs represent alien life coming to Earth, they quite possibly are not the life forms from the original planet, but some type of drone sent to do the bidding and research of the home planet. Biological life forms (as we know them) that are complex enough to form a mass of flesh like a human do not like extremes. This includes being bombarded while in space by cosmic rays, x rays, gamma rays, as well as withstanding space travel that requires speeds approaching the speed of light while maintaining your body's structure, as well as the structure of the ship maintaining its stability.
If fabled particle the tachyon actually existed, which theoretically functions at speeds faster than the speed of light, perhaps space travel would be "more manageable." What's interesting about the tachyon, and I have not really heard anyone talk about, is IF it existed, how would it be measured? Could the human eye even see it? Things to think about.