I think Gnarliment just bodied the main argument in this thread.
Sorry Chan - you my homie but you sound old here (and forgetful!)
Hip-hop, like pop music in general, always goes through different eras of stylistic dominance where "everything sounds the same." That was as true in 1982 as it was in 1992 as it was in 2009. And it certainly applies to other pop music genres too.
The main reason you didn't notice/care before is that you LIKED what you were hearing and right now, you don't like all this hyper-synthed out stuff. But that just means you don't like the style - it's not as if hip-hop has suddenly narrowed its aesthetic range to just THAT style even if it happens to be a dominant style of the moment.
This is true - but i also think that what's considered popular/pop music is so narrow nowadays compared to all the music that is out there. Maybe it's always been like this, but now with the internet and all, you're more aware of how much music is out there. The radio/MTV has a narrower focus but their power over the consumers that have any sort of deepened interest in the music has diminished.
take a cheesy synth, some hand claps, bpm around 72, vocal sample repeated over and over and some dudes in the background going "hey!" throw some ignorant sounding jackass on there rapping poorly about some nonsense and all the riches he has even though he's only had one song and you got yourself a hit!
repeat, repeat, repeat....
formulaic crap. the post with the fat joe, digable and so on all had the same sample, but all the songs sounded way different. this rap shit is worse than its ever been. anyone can take that formula and viola, its a hit. sometimes cats give me their cds in the club and i'll throw a song on for them and when it has that formula, the crowd doesn't know the f*cking difference. not that its good, it just sounds like the rest of the bullshit they've been dancing to.
People dance to them because they're club records.
There were club records back in the days too. Freestyle and shit? All that shit sounded the same too.
For the most part, dance records sound the same. Dance craze records in the 60s and 70s sounded the same, too.
"all the songs sounded way different" hahaha bullshit. It's just nostalgia.
A bunch of kids in 15 years will be talking about the minute differences in "Do The Stanky Leg".
And you'll still be old, complaining about how it was back in your day. But you know what, kids these days DO think all that acoustic bassline shit sounds the same. And they're right. The only difference is, that was our shit then, and so we feel differently. Nostalgia.
Listen to what you want to listen to guys. You don't like playing club records then find another job. I never understand why people get so upset by this shit. Change the station, put in a CD or a tape, turn on the ipod and jam to your rare groove MP3s or whatever... Let the kids be kids and Keep It Moving.
some popular bandwagonesque trends from the past have stood the test of time. while others wont or havent.
im not completely sold with the argument that certain people sound old and its chalked up to "you dont like the style". does not mean that style can or cant be horrible/ wack.
take a look at the billboard charts from 1980 and listen to what sounds formulaic and contrived from yesteryear and put it against that same way of making records today.
i dont think the diversity is there or pushed for from artists or the industry. things have changed. pop punk rock fallout boy groups= clones x 100 ring tone auto tune sunglasses in the club rap= x 100
i think a world of difference is happening with then and now.
production aesthetics. hall and oates, not sounding like rick james, not sounding like michael, not sounding like christopher cross.
20 people hire the same producers/ writers today.
t pains records all sound the same. ive yet to hear him flip something different.
how many times has timberland changed his style up, yet still having his signature sound ?
I don't have any real argument with that... I wasn't judging the music to be bad (or good), and that discussion can and will happen elsewhere... I just am consistently amazed with old record-dudes' fascination/hatred of what is more or less kids dance music.
I mean I guess it is a regular trait of music aficionados. But I'm surrounded by this stuff (living in Harlem... it's D - J - WEB - STAR!!![/b] all day every day) and I don't really feel a way about it. It is what it is. I don't jam it at home. The kids on the block do their lil dances and jam their music. It's cool. They look at me funny when I'm playing my Cypress Hill tape or a Josh Dunn mix or whatever. It's cool. They got their thing and I have mine.
I like to notice the similarities in style, if not in substance, between eras... I think something you're getting at with the AM gold, session musicians, smooth formulaic AOR style stuff. Which even amongst it had some worthwhile material... same thing now. There's always diamonds in the rough.
Either way, the only thing stopping anyone from listening to good CURRENT music... is themselves. It's out there. And if not, there's always old stuff to mine.
20 people hired the same writers/producers in the 70s. And their records are now "appreciated" often on sites like this one. Throwaway studio projects that were label write offs... not comparing the music of then to now, because it's different... but talking to old heads, a lot of them felt the same way. "Oh that was just some trash they put out to cash in on so-and-so's sound that was hot at the time"
Etc etc etc
Been having this same argument for 5 years, nothing has changed except the music itself.
Either way, the only thing stopping anyone from listening to good CURRENT music... is themselves. It's out there. And if not, there's always old stuff to mine.
I was waiting for the elevator at work a couple of months ago when one of the upper-upper management people walked by, he gave me the head to toe and back again look and said, "I see you're wearing your rap shoes".
I don't have any real argument with that... I wasn't judging the music to be bad (or good), and that discussion can and will happen elsewhere... I just am consistently amazed with old record-dudes' fascination/hatred of what is more or less kids dance music.
I mean I guess it is a regular trait of music aficionados. But I'm surrounded by this stuff (living in Harlem... it's D - J - WEB - STAR!!![/b] all day every day) and I don't really feel a way about it. It is what it is. I don't jam it at home. The kids on the block do their lil dances and jam their music. It's cool. They look at me funny when I'm playing my Cypress Hill tape or a Josh Dunn mix or whatever. It's cool. They got their thing and I have mine.
I like to notice the similarities in style, if not in substance, between eras... I think something you're getting at with the AM gold, session musicians, smooth formulaic AOR style stuff. Which even amongst it had some worthwhile material... same thing now. There's always diamonds in the rough.
Either way, the only thing stopping anyone from listening to good CURRENT music... is themselves. It's out there. And if not, there's always old stuff to mine.
20 people hired the same writers/producers in the 70s. And their records are now "appreciated" often on sites like this one. Throwaway studio projects that were label write offs... not comparing the music of then to now, because it's different... but talking to old heads, a lot of them felt the same way. "Oh that was just some trash they put out to cash in on so-and-so's sound that was hot at the time"
Etc etc etc
Been having this same argument for 5 years, nothing has changed except the music itself.
i think you have to compare the music of then and now, especially if the same approach is used by the industry. patrick adams and peter brown had hands in producing alot of music that wasnt mainstream, yet so diverse....but also signature.
while i think theres plenty of great new music out, its just so buried by this other garbage.
johnny i think technology has changed it all. when you can get hit records of of preset demo/ auditions that come with your program/ keyboard....
one man can do the same thing over and over again, theres no session players to hire. its a simple beat, with auto tune. thats it. same sing songy verse, same style hook different lyrics. heres your record. people really really do sound the same today.
the extent of this today vs in the past is overwhelming to me. if your really into music and cant see its so much more easy to do today , more so before....your lying to yourself.
when one would hire stevie wonder to produce a record...to get that sound.. say third world, or any countless number of artists hes written for or produced... its not just about churning out some garbagio that was like the last song somebody had a hit with. the depth is missing today. i feel you could find pop songs yesteryear that could feed your soul. good luck today !
if anything i feel consumers are to blame for accepting the same bullshit over and over.
im sticking to what i believe to be factual...as far as cycles of pop music production goes, shit is the stalest its ever been now.
r&b records are getting more crass, no class.
drake "you the f*cking best" really ?
of course i know theres a time and place for all...im not hating on the kids. just saying if this is our present, brace for the future trends.
b/w whos copping the new lionel richie with akon ?! i bet it wont sound anything like youve ever heard.
"You could find the Abstract listening to hip hop My pops used to say, it reminded him of be-bop I said, well daddy don't you know that things go in cycles The way that Bobby Brown is just ampin' like Michael"
I was at a club on the weekend and all those silly crazy youths were bouncin' to new dance music with straight up 80's house 808 drums. It sounded a bit tired, but at the same time I liked how it kinda brought back the shit I liked back in the day. I don't give a F*ck. They were all having a good time and that's all that matters.
deej "everyone in this thread is an idiot. F*ck this thread its like a parody of old people"
Haha. Sounds like a parody from a dude who finally realized Shawnna wasn't really that great after all...
I don't have any real argument with that... I wasn't judging the music to be bad (or good), and that discussion can and will happen elsewhere... I just am consistently amazed with old record-dudes' fascination/hatred of what is more or less kids dance music.
I mean I guess it is a regular trait of music aficionados. But I'm surrounded by this stuff (living in Harlem... it's D - J - WEB - STAR!!![/b] all day every day) and I don't really feel a way about it. It is what it is. I don't jam it at home. The kids on the block do their lil dances and jam their music. It's cool. They look at me funny when I'm playing my Cypress Hill tape or a Josh Dunn mix or whatever. It's cool. They got their thing and I have mine.
I like to notice the similarities in style, if not in substance, between eras... I think something you're getting at with the AM gold, session musicians, smooth formulaic AOR style stuff. Which even amongst it had some worthwhile material... same thing now. There's always diamonds in the rough.
Either way, the only thing stopping anyone from listening to good CURRENT music... is themselves. It's out there. And if not, there's always old stuff to mine.
20 people hired the same writers/producers in the 70s. And their records are now "appreciated" often on sites like this one. Throwaway studio projects that were label write offs... not comparing the music of then to now, because it's different... but talking to old heads, a lot of them felt the same way. "Oh that was just some trash they put out to cash in on so-and-so's sound that was hot at the time"
Etc etc etc
Been having this same argument for 5 years, nothing has changed except the music itself.
i think you have to compare the music of then and now, especially if the same approach is used by the industry. patrick adams and peter brown had hands in producing alot of music that wasnt mainstream, yet so diverse....but also signature.
while i think theres plenty of great new music out, its just so buried by this other garbage.
johnny i think technology has changed it all. when you can get hit records of of preset demo/ auditions that come with your program/ keyboard....
one man can do the same thing over and over again, theres no session players to hire. its a simple beat, with auto tune. thats it. same sing songy verse, same style hook different lyrics. heres your record. people really really do sound the same today.
the extent of this today vs in the past is overwhelming to me. if your really into music and cant see its so much more easy to do today , more so before....your lying to yourself.
when one would hire stevie wonder to produce a record...to get that sound.. say third world, or any countless number of artists hes written for or produced... its not just about churning out some garbagio that was like the last song somebody had a hit with. the depth is missing today. i feel you could find pop songs yesteryear that could feed your soul. good luck today !
if anything i feel consumers are to blame for accepting the same bullshit over and over.
im sticking to what i believe to be factual...as far as cycles of pop music production goes, shit is the stalest its ever been now.
r&b records are getting more crass, no class.
drake "you the f*cking best" really ?
of course i know theres a time and place for all...im not hating on the kids. just saying if this is our present, brace for the future trends.
b/w whos copping the new lionel richie with akon ?! i bet it wont sound anything like youve ever heard.
How can anyone crucify and entire genre of music w/ a handful of songs?
The industry is done, yet u dudes complain about POP music like its some contained format.
The Casey Kasem days are over. Radio doesnt lead folks tastes. 3 UTubes dont tell the entire story.
The shit is way too fragmented to sum up any genre at this point.
R&B is doin quite fine. Unless you frame the entire genre by 5 artists.
I'm saying though. If we're gonna talk about dross... let's talk about DROSS. Kon you KNOW that there are racks and racks of terrible dance singles, cause we've all been through them. Sure there are classics. And there are classics now. Fewer and further between? Maybe. I'm not really interested in judging. It's not being made for me. When I listen to a record that is aimed towards me, I can be very critical... but I'm not going to compare some kiddie record to Third World produced by Stevie Wonder.
The record industry has changed... technology itself has changed. It's irreversible. That horse is out the barn door and gone. You're arguing against yourself, Kon... in the Microwave threads you are advocating for something that arguably makes it much easier to become a DJ... diluting the pool of talented ones. Yet we both know that true talent makes the best of new technology. How is that any different in terms of records and production value? Anyone with a sidekick, a laptop and a myspace page can get their music produced and heard. That's why I'm not interested in the (to me) phony argument that music has gotten worse... it hasn't exactly gotten worse, it's just gotten flooded with amateurs. But truly talented people make great records with new technology.
Some people like amateur music... there's a whole website (waxidermy!) dedicated to its pursuit (chuckle, you know I love you guys). And there are people out there appreciating Lil B who is basically today's new technology in music gone nuclear. There are whole scenes out there that are below the radar, not on the radio. Radio is so MOR these days it's silly. Batmon's right - the trends in music going on right now... radio is the last to have it. By the time something's on the radio it's dead and on to the next thing.
I don't have any real argument with that... I wasn't judging the music to be bad (or good), and that discussion can and will happen elsewhere... I just am consistently amazed with old record-dudes' fascination/hatred of what is more or less kids dance music.
I mean I guess it is a regular trait of music aficionados. But I'm surrounded by this stuff (living in Harlem... it's D - J - WEB - STAR!!![/b] all day every day) and I don't really feel a way about it. It is what it is. I don't jam it at home. The kids on the block do their lil dances and jam their music. It's cool. They look at me funny when I'm playing my Cypress Hill tape or a Josh Dunn mix or whatever. It's cool. They got their thing and I have mine.
I like to notice the similarities in style, if not in substance, between eras... I think something you're getting at with the AM gold, session musicians, smooth formulaic AOR style stuff. Which even amongst it had some worthwhile material... same thing now. There's always diamonds in the rough.
Either way, the only thing stopping anyone from listening to good CURRENT music... is themselves. It's out there. And if not, there's always old stuff to mine.
20 people hired the same writers/producers in the 70s. And their records are now "appreciated" often on sites like this one. Throwaway studio projects that were label write offs... not comparing the music of then to now, because it's different... but talking to old heads, a lot of them felt the same way. "Oh that was just some trash they put out to cash in on so-and-so's sound that was hot at the time"
Etc etc etc
Been having this same argument for 5 years, nothing has changed except the music itself.
i think you have to compare the music of then and now, especially if the same approach is used by the industry. patrick adams and peter brown had hands in producing alot of music that wasnt mainstream, yet so diverse....but also signature.
while i think theres plenty of great new music out, its just so buried by this other garbage.
johnny i think technology has changed it all. when you can get hit records of of preset demo/ auditions that come with your program/ keyboard....
one man can do the same thing over and over again, theres no session players to hire. its a simple beat, with auto tune. thats it. same sing songy verse, same style hook different lyrics. heres your record. people really really do sound the same today.
the extent of this today vs in the past is overwhelming to me. if your really into music and cant see its so much more easy to do today , more so before....your lying to yourself.
when one would hire stevie wonder to produce a record...to get that sound.. say third world, or any countless number of artists hes written for or produced... its not just about churning out some garbagio that was like the last song somebody had a hit with. the depth is missing today. i feel you could find pop songs yesteryear that could feed your soul. good luck today !
if anything i feel consumers are to blame for accepting the same bullshit over and over.
im sticking to what i believe to be factual...as far as cycles of pop music production goes, shit is the stalest its ever been now.
r&b records are getting more crass, no class.
drake "you the f*cking best" really ?
of course i know theres a time and place for all...im not hating on the kids. just saying if this is our present, brace for the future trends.
b/w whos copping the new lionel richie with akon ?! i bet it wont sound anything like youve ever heard.
you could hear 78 collectors saying the same stuff about post-war music or whatever. what music "feed(s) your soul" is entirely subjective. lots of people thought rock music was too crass when it hit the mainstream. same for rap. and on and on.
Comments
This is true - but i also think that what's considered popular/pop music is so narrow nowadays compared to all the music that is out there. Maybe it's always been like this, but now with the internet and all, you're more aware of how much music is out there. The radio/MTV has a narrower focus but their power over the consumers that have any sort of deepened interest in the music has diminished.
its not just the autotune as much as it is the emo punk rock band attempt at modern day rap. uck
repeat, repeat, repeat....
formulaic crap. the post with the fat joe, digable and so on all had the same sample, but all the songs sounded way different. this rap shit is worse than its ever been. anyone can take that formula and viola, its a hit. sometimes cats give me their cds in the club and i'll throw a song on for them and when it has that formula, the crowd doesn't know the f*cking difference. not that its good, it just sounds like the rest of the bullshit they've been dancing to.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
tries to stay current with 14 yo girls ringtones
People dance to them because they're club records.
There were club records back in the days too. Freestyle and shit? All that shit sounded the same too.
For the most part, dance records sound the same. Dance craze records in the 60s and 70s sounded the same, too.
"all the songs sounded way different" hahaha bullshit. It's just nostalgia.
A bunch of kids in 15 years will be talking about the minute differences in "Do The Stanky Leg".
And you'll still be old, complaining about how it was back in your day. But you know what, kids these days DO think all that acoustic bassline shit sounds the same. And they're right. The only difference is, that was our shit then, and so we feel differently. Nostalgia.
Listen to what you want to listen to guys. You don't like playing club records then find another job. I never understand why people get so upset by this shit. Change the station, put in a CD or a tape, turn on the ipod and jam to your rare groove MP3s or whatever... Let the kids be kids and Keep It Moving.
Owns 20+ records that are the 60s/70s versions of "Do The Stanky Leg"
what? Is that The best you can do? Couldnt find a hidden homophobic agenda in my last post?
OK how about... these are the ringtones of 14 year old boys, too. YOU HOMOPHOBE
(kidding)
The criticism is so one-note. They're silly dance records. I'm sure you own some silly dance records yourself. That was the point.
I don't even like this kind of music most of the time yet I can't at all get with the dismissive nature of most of these posts
It's kids' music... let the children be.
im not completely sold with the argument that certain people sound old and its chalked up to "you dont like the style".
does not mean that style can or cant be horrible/ wack.
take a look at the billboard charts from 1980 and listen to what sounds formulaic and contrived from yesteryear and put it against that same way of making records today.
i dont think the diversity is there or pushed for from artists or the industry. things have changed.
pop punk rock fallout boy groups= clones x 100
ring tone auto tune sunglasses in the club rap= x 100
i think a world of difference is happening with then and now.
production aesthetics.
hall and oates, not sounding like rick james, not sounding like michael, not sounding like christopher cross.
20 people hire the same producers/ writers today.
t pains records all sound the same. ive yet to hear him flip something different.
how many times has timberland changed his style up, yet still having his signature sound ?
I mean I guess it is a regular trait of music aficionados. But I'm surrounded by this stuff (living in Harlem... it's D - J - WEB - STAR!!![/b] all day every day) and I don't really feel a way about it. It is what it is. I don't jam it at home. The kids on the block do their lil dances and jam their music. It's cool. They look at me funny when I'm playing my Cypress Hill tape or a Josh Dunn mix or whatever. It's cool. They got their thing and I have mine.
I like to notice the similarities in style, if not in substance, between eras... I think something you're getting at with the AM gold, session musicians, smooth formulaic AOR style stuff. Which even amongst it had some worthwhile material... same thing now. There's always diamonds in the rough.
Either way, the only thing stopping anyone from listening to good CURRENT music... is themselves. It's out there. And if not, there's always old stuff to mine.
20 people hired the same writers/producers in the 70s. And their records are now "appreciated" often on sites like this one. Throwaway studio projects that were label write offs... not comparing the music of then to now, because it's different... but talking to old heads, a lot of them felt the same way. "Oh that was just some trash they put out to cash in on so-and-so's sound that was hot at the time"
Etc etc etc
Been having this same argument for 5 years, nothing has changed except the music itself.
that too!
could be!
all this reggaeton sounds the same
i think you have to compare the music of then and now, especially if the same approach is used by the industry. patrick adams and peter brown had hands in producing alot of music that wasnt mainstream, yet so diverse....but also signature.
while i think theres plenty of great new music out, its just so buried by this other garbage.
johnny i think technology has changed it all. when you can get hit records of of preset demo/ auditions that come with your program/ keyboard....
one man can do the same thing over and over again, theres no session players to hire. its a simple beat, with auto tune. thats it. same sing songy verse, same style hook different lyrics. heres your record.
people really really do sound the same today.
the extent of this today vs in the past is overwhelming to me. if your really into music and cant see its so much more easy to do today , more so before....your lying to yourself.
when one would hire stevie wonder to produce a record...to get that sound.. say third world, or any countless number of artists hes written for or produced... its not just about churning out some garbagio that was like the last song somebody had a hit with. the depth is missing today. i feel you could find pop songs yesteryear that could feed your soul. good luck today !
if anything i feel consumers are to blame for accepting the same bullshit over and over.
im sticking to what i believe to be factual...as far as cycles of pop music production goes, shit is the stalest its ever been now.
r&b records are getting more crass, no class.
drake "you the f*cking best" really ?
of course i know theres a time and place for all...im not hating on the kids. just saying if this is our present, brace for the future trends.
b/w whos copping the new lionel richie with akon ?!
i bet it wont sound anything like youve ever heard.
My pops used to say, it reminded him of be-bop
I said, well daddy don't you know that things go in cycles
The way that Bobby Brown is just ampin' like Michael"
I was at a club on the weekend and all those silly crazy youths were bouncin' to new dance music with straight up 80's house 808 drums. It sounded a bit tired, but at the same time I liked how it kinda brought back the shit I liked back in the day. I don't give a F*ck. They were all having a good time and that's all that matters.
Haha. Sounds like a parody from a dude who finally realized Shawnna wasn't really that great after all...
The industry is done, yet u dudes complain about POP music like its some contained format.
The Casey Kasem days are over. Radio doesnt lead folks tastes. 3 UTubes dont tell the entire story.
The shit is way too fragmented to sum up any genre at this point.
R&B is doin quite fine. Unless you frame the entire genre by 5 artists.
Where are my crust dudes at?
Important questions need to be answered!
I find a record like "Ain't I" to be much more soulful than, say, the chill-out room downtempo of Donuts.
I'm saying though. If we're gonna talk about dross... let's talk about DROSS. Kon you KNOW that there are racks and racks of terrible dance singles, cause we've all been through them. Sure there are classics. And there are classics now. Fewer and further between? Maybe. I'm not really interested in judging. It's not being made for me. When I listen to a record that is aimed towards me, I can be very critical... but I'm not going to compare some kiddie record to Third World produced by Stevie Wonder.
The record industry has changed... technology itself has changed. It's irreversible. That horse is out the barn door and gone. You're arguing against yourself, Kon... in the Microwave threads you are advocating for something that arguably makes it much easier to become a DJ... diluting the pool of talented ones. Yet we both know that true talent makes the best of new technology. How is that any different in terms of records and production value? Anyone with a sidekick, a laptop and a myspace page can get their music produced and heard. That's why I'm not interested in the (to me) phony argument that music has gotten worse... it hasn't exactly gotten worse, it's just gotten flooded with amateurs. But truly talented people make great records with new technology.
Some people like amateur music... there's a whole website (waxidermy!) dedicated to its pursuit (chuckle, you know I love you guys). And there are people out there appreciating Lil B who is basically today's new technology in music gone nuclear. There are whole scenes out there that are below the radar, not on the radio. Radio is so MOR these days it's silly. Batmon's right - the trends in music going on right now... radio is the last to have it. By the time something's on the radio it's dead and on to the next thing.
That Drake record sucks. That we can agree on.
you could hear 78 collectors saying the same stuff about post-war music or whatever.
what music "feed(s) your soul" is entirely subjective.
lots of people thought rock music was too crass when it hit the mainstream. same for rap.
and on and on.
jonny's on point.