Very much like soul and funk, the hardest and realest C&W is on 45. When you begin to dig even slightly below the Haggard-Cash-Cline-Wagoner surface, you'll find shit that will truly blow your mind.
With all due respect to Dante, who more than knows his stuff, here's a word for all you future cratediggers who decide to feel your country oats:
JUST BECAUSE YOU FOUND SOME CLASSIC OBSCURE COUNTRY ON 45, THAT IS NO EXCUSE TO STOP LISTENING TO THE OBVIOUS GREATS. PATSY CLINE AND THEM SOLD RECORDS FOR A REASON - BECAUSE THEY WERE DAMN GOOD, THAT'S WHY. SO IF YOU FIND SOME PRIVATE-PRESS C&W JOINT BY "TEX NOBODY," DON'T START ACTING LIKE "JOHNNY CASH AT FOLSOM PRISON" IS USELESS. I'VE HEARD SOME REAL GOOD "TEX NOBODY" RECORDS, BUT THAT "RECORD COLLECTOR SNOB" THING AIN'T GONNA FLY!
SURE, THE HARDEST AND REALEST C&W IS ON 45. AND SOME OF THEM 45'S JUST HAPPEN TO BE BY HAGGARD, CASH, CLINE AND WAGONER...
peace out!
I was thinking the same thing. Except I don't listen to Porter Wagoner, but props for discovering Dolly Parton.
Buck Owens needs to be mentioned.
In the old days Country stars were rarely manufactured the way pop stars are. Country stars tend to prove themselves over long careers.
Some very talented country singers and songwriters chose not to move to Nashville or do music full time. So there are great private press country records out there. But the best had full careers and sold lots of records.
From my limited research, "Just Dropped In" (which was his big fake-psychedelia move)
Why "fake" psychedelia? He didn't write it, Mickey Newbury did, and the First Edition version of the song, like Newbury's own original recording, seems pretty authentically psychedelic to me. Certainly the lyrics are psychedelic, no?
From my limited research, "Just Dropped In" (which was his big fake-psychedelia move)
Why "fake" psychedelia? He didn't write it, Mickey Newbury did, and the First Edition version of the song, like Newbury's own original recording, seems pretty authentically psychedelic to me. Certainly the lyrics are psychedelic, no?
Back in the day there were "real" psych groups, that not only wrote and played their own music, but also took psychedelic drugs and were part of the revolution.
And there were "fake" psych groups that recorded songs that sounded psychedelic because those records were selling.
It sounds funny today, but back then it was as serious as a paisley Nehru shirt.
Give me a break - the difference between the Electric Prunes and the First Edition as far as "real" psychedelia goes is negligable ... most bands playing psychedelic music were just trend-hopping - which is why they all switched to blues-rock or old-timey country rock when that became fashionable. There were some bands that walked the walk (hello, 13th Floor Elevators) but in the grand scheme of things, "Just Dropped In" is no less psychedelic than "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night"
It sounds funny today, but back then it was as serious as a paisley Nehru shirt.
Give me a break - the difference between the Electric Prunes and the First Edition as far as "real" psychedelia goes is negligable ... most bands playing psychedelic music were just trend-hopping - which is why they all switched to blues-rock or old-timey country rock when that became fashionable. There were some bands that walked the walk (hello, 13th Floor Elevators) but in the grand scheme of things, "Just Dropped In" is no less psychedelic than "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night"
Since Kenny's brother was behind the first psych record ever, "real" or "fake", he at least had a good perspective on what psych was, unlike some "real" psych artists.
It sounds funny today, but back then it was as serious as a paisley Nehru shirt.
Give me a break - the difference between the Electric Prunes and the First Edition as far as "real" psychedelia goes is negligable ... most bands playing psychedelic music were just trend-hopping - which is why they all switched to blues-rock or old-timey country rock when that became fashionable. There were some bands that walked the walk (hello, 13th Floor Elevators) but in the grand scheme of things, "Just Dropped In" is no less psychedelic than "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night"
Since Kenny's brother was behind the first psych record ever, "real" or "fake", he at least had a good perspective on what psych was, unlike some "real" psych artists.
It sounds funny today, but back then it was as serious as a paisley Nehru shirt.
Give me a break - the difference between the Electric Prunes and the First Edition as far as "real" psychedelia goes is negligable ... most bands playing psychedelic music were just trend-hopping - which is why they all switched to blues-rock or old-timey country rock when that became fashionable. There were some bands that walked the walk (hello, 13th Floor Elevators) but in the grand scheme of things, "Just Dropped In" is no less psychedelic than "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night"
Since Kenny's brother was behind the first psych record ever, "real" or "fake", he at least had a good perspective on what psych was, unlike some "real" psych artists.
What's that story/record?
Lelan Rogers owned the International Artists label.....Elevators, Golden Dawn, etc.
From my limited research, "Just Dropped In" (which was his big fake-psychedelia move)
Why "fake" psychedelia? He didn't write it, Mickey Newbury did, and the First Edition version of the song, like Newbury's own original recording, seems pretty authentically psychedelic to me. Certainly the lyrics are psychedelic, no?
Back in the day there were "real" psych groups, that not only wrote and played their own music, but also took psychedelic drugs and were part of the revolution.
And there were "fake" psych groups that recorded songs that sounded psychedelic because those records were selling.
Kenny Rogers is squarely in the later group.
Perhaps that is what he meant.
That IS what I meant. As far as Soul On Ice's comment, the only thing that the First Edition and the Electric Prunes had in common was that they recorded for the same label. But I'm sure their fan base was 180 degrees different.
Yeah, "Just Dropped In" is a good song, but that is the ONLY song they ever did that could be considered "underground" (the 1960's equivalent of "alternative") in ANY way. Everything else they did was mainstream music aimed straight at the Top 40. Plus, their IMAGE was totally different. They wore matching suits and played Vegas-type showrooms. They weren't working the rock festivals and hippie ballrooms like the more "FM"-type bands were.
I'm not saying this makes them bad or good. I'm just saying that's what they WERE. The same folks who think the First Edition are legitimately psychedelic are the same ones who think Tom Jones is an authentic stone soul brother who kept doing R&B all through his career. (That's a big-ass lie - he STARTED soul, but Vegas derailed him.)
Does THIS look like a band who would be headlining the Fillmore West?
Give me a break - the difference between the Electric Prunes and the First Edition as far as "real" psychedelia goes is negligable ... most bands playing psychedelic music were just trend-hopping - which is why they all switched to blues-rock or old-timey country rock when that became fashionable.
Not true.
There were bands who shifted from psych to blues-rock or country-rock...but since all these musics had the same fan base, it wasn't like it was a drastic shift. Yeah, the Grateful Dead later changed over to more "rustic" blues or country sounds, but it's not like the psych crowd thought they were selling out. It was all part of the same mindset, and besides, some bands like Kaleidoscope changed genres on the regular.
But the First Edition was different. They were coming from a whole different direction. The hippies were NOT their bread and butter. But they were astute enough to jump on that bandwagon for the one song. That one TOKEN song. Which, I don't think, was even the first single off the LP. The rest of the time they were a kleen-cut, easy-listening AM POP group. Nothing more, nothing less. "Just Dropped In" was jawdropping psych, but don't let that cloud your judgement. Kenny Rogers was not Arthur Lee.
"Just Dropped In" was jawdropping psych, but don't let that cloud your judgement.
Uh, that was the original argument though. Was "Just Dropped In" psych or "fake psych" whatever the F*ck that means. If it's "jaw dropping" then it is not fake. It is psych. That drops your jaw.
And the First Edition, while definitely a sunshine pop group, were a little more edgy than just the Mickey Newbury cover. They were pretty much the "out there" group of mainstream country fans - and they had other songs that would not have been out of place on a Vanilla Fudge record:
"Just Dropped In" was jawdropping psych, but don't let that cloud your judgement.
Uh, that was the original argument though. Was "Just Dropped In" psych or "fake psych" whatever the F*ck that means. If it's "jaw dropping" then it is not fake. It is psych. That drops your jaw.
...but they just did the psych for the one token song, overdid the effects in a way that a real psych band wouldn't (that was session musicians, anyway), and didn't really do anything else in that vein. So that's why I call 'em fake. Which doesn't mean bad, necessarily.
Maybe fake is too strong a word. I shoulda said "pseudo-psych?"
Shoot, Kagny & the Dirty Rats were fake new wave (from Motown, yet) and I love their one album to death!
And the First Edition, while definitely a sunshine pop group, were a little more edgy than just the Mickey Newbury cover. They were pretty much the "out there" group of mainstream country fans - and they had other songs that would not have been out of place on a Vanilla Fudge record:
"Something's Burning" - a would-be Fudge song?
Well, I can't hear that, although I always did like that cut...
Pick and I are talking about then. You are talking about now.
Back then there was no such thing as sunshine pop.
Forget, real and fake.
The San Fran groups were underground. Kenny Rogers was pop. Not even sell out pop, because he had bought in from the start.
Matter of fact, I don't even think the country market showed Kenny any serious love until the seventies, around the time he broke with "Lucille" and the First Edition split up. He was considered a pop act up until then.
Pick and I are talking about then. You are talking about now.
Back then there was no such thing as sunshine pop.
Forget, real and fake.
The San Fran groups were underground. Kenny Rogers was pop. Not even sell out pop, because he had bought in from the start.
Matter of fact, I don't even think the country market showed Kenny any serious love until the seventies, around the time he broke with "Lucille" and the First Edition split up. He was considered a pop act up until then.
I considered him fake psych in the 60s, fake country in the 70s, fake actor in the 80s, fake chicken in 90s and fake face in the 00s.
It sounds funny today, but back then it was as serious as a paisley Nehru shirt.
Give me a break - the difference between the Electric Prunes and the First Edition as far as "real" psychedelia goes is negligable ... most bands playing psychedelic music were just trend-hopping - which is why they all switched to blues-rock or old-timey country rock when that became fashionable. There were some bands that walked the walk (hello, 13th Floor Elevators) but in the grand scheme of things, "Just Dropped In" is no less psychedelic than "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night"
Since Kenny's brother was behind the first psych record ever, "real" or "fake", he at least had a good perspective on what psych was, unlike some "real" psych artists.
What's that story/record?
Lelan Rogers owned the International Artists label.....Elevators, Golden Dawn, etc.
Cool, I never bothered to read up on the label, just the bands. Also, I wouldn't have put two & two together that the owner of the label was related to Kenny Rogers unless it was especially pointed out to me.
I love some country music! Just like any genre, there is good and bad country. Also just like most of the music we like, the old classic country joints is where it???s at. Hank Sr., Patsy Cline, Willie, Waylon, Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash, George Jones, Buck Owens, Roy Clark, etc???. Some new stuff is worth checking for. My Homegirl Neko Case just put out another great album and Porter Wagoner???s last album, ???The Wagon Master??? was very good.
Here are two of my Country music heroes???..
Willie Nelson. Willie, his band and crew are the nicest group of people you could ever meet. Every time we do a show with them they have their friend bring a huge BBQ rig backstage and cook dinner for us. Best dudes EVAR!!!!!!
Willie and BC
Paul English has been Willie???s drummer since they started together in 1955. Paul is one of the coolest guys I have ever met in my life. Always rocks Cazals, wears all black on stage, used to wear a black cape when he played live and used to carry three guns at a time!!!!! One in his pocket, one in the back of his belt and one in his boot! Paul was responsible for collecting their pay from all the shady promoters back in the day. Paul told me so many crazy stories about blocking promoters in phone booths with cars, jacking promoter???s cars up on fork lifts and taking the keys, flashing guns on fools, etc??? so they could get paid!!!! Paul said he quit packing gats after his grand kids were born. Paul still settles all of their shows!
Maybe fake is too strong a word. I shoulda said "pseudo-psych?"
This notion that "true" psych music has some inherent tie-in with drugs and being part of "The Revolution" is bogus in my opinion.
While it may have it's roots with artists who did indeed participate in both, once the genre was defined, anyone could and did play psychedelic music.
Gabor Szabo recorded one of my top ten fave psych songs of all-time ("Walking On Nails") and he was no more of a "true psych artist" than Kenny Rogers.
Having run a label that has released 60+ LP's and having spoken to literally hundreds of musicisns from the 60's-70's rock scene, an amazing high percentage didn't even do drugs nor were "revolting" against 'the man"....for the most part they just wanted to get laid.
The most psychedelic LP I have been involved with, Cold Sun, has more to do with horror movies and lizards than drugs and revolution.
Maybe fake is too strong a word. I shoulda said "pseudo-psych?"
This notion that "true" psych music has some inherent tie-in with drugs and being part of "The Revolution" is bogus in my opinion.
I didn't really mention either. I was thinking more in terms of sound and image.
Understood....that statement was directed at one of LW's earlier post.
Not my words below, but fairly accurate....and for at least one song, they did indeed capture the sound and image of a "real" psych band.
The ambience of rebellious psychedelia was widespread at this time of course, and the band, re-titled Kenny Rogers & the First Edition within a year, tapped into this mood perfectly again through their war protest song Ruby, Don???t Take Your Love To Town, folk anthem Reuben James and 1970???s moodily atmospheric Something???s Burning.
Not my words below, but fairly accurate....and for at least one song, they did indeed capture the sound and image of a "real" psych band.
The ambience of rebellious psychedelia was widespread at this time of course, and the band, re-titled Kenny Rogers & the First Edition within a year, tapped into this mood perfectly again through their war protest song Ruby, Don???t Take Your Love To Town, folk anthem Reuben James and 1970???s moodily atmospheric Something???s Burning.
Where did you get this from? Kenny Rogers' website? "The band tapped into rebellious psychedelia" once and only once. This bio makes him sound like he was prime Woodstock material (which he wasn't).
And maybe I missed something, but "Ruby..." wasn't protesting the Vietnam War so much as it was Ruby selling her body on the street ("it's hard to love a man whose legs are bent and paralyzed/and the wants and needs of a woman your age, Ruby, I realize").
Comments
I was thinking the same thing.
Except I don't listen to Porter Wagoner, but props for discovering Dolly Parton.
Buck Owens needs to be mentioned.
In the old days Country stars were rarely manufactured the way pop stars are.
Country stars tend to prove themselves over long careers.
Some very talented country singers and songwriters chose not to move to Nashville or do music full time. So there are great private press country records out there.
But the best had full careers and sold lots of records.
Why "fake" psychedelia? He didn't write it, Mickey Newbury did, and the First
Edition version of the song, like Newbury's own original recording, seems pretty
authentically psychedelic to me. Certainly the lyrics are psychedelic, no?
Back in the day there were "real" psych groups, that not only wrote and played their own music, but also took psychedelic drugs and were part of the revolution.
And there were "fake" psych groups that recorded songs that sounded psychedelic because those records were selling.
Kenny Rogers is squarely in the later group.
Perhaps that is what he meant.
LOL
Hey brother, did you hear that if you skip out on your classes today and get high in the street, maybe they'll just go and stop the war?
It sounds funny today, but back then it was as serious as a paisley Nehru shirt.
Give me a break - the difference between the Electric Prunes and the First Edition
as far as "real" psychedelia goes is negligable ... most bands playing psychedelic
music were just trend-hopping - which is why they all switched to blues-rock or
old-timey country rock when that became fashionable. There were some bands that
walked the walk (hello, 13th Floor Elevators) but in the grand scheme of things,
"Just Dropped In" is no less psychedelic than "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night"
Since Kenny's brother was behind the first psych record ever, "real" or "fake", he at least had a good perspective on what psych was, unlike some "real" psych artists.
Lelan Rogers owned the International Artists label.....Elevators, Golden Dawn, etc.
That IS what I meant. As far as Soul On Ice's comment, the only thing that the First Edition and the Electric Prunes had in common was that they recorded for the same label. But I'm sure their fan base was 180 degrees different.
Yeah, "Just Dropped In" is a good song, but that is the ONLY song they ever did that could be considered "underground" (the 1960's equivalent of "alternative") in ANY way. Everything else they did was mainstream music aimed straight at the Top 40. Plus, their IMAGE was totally different. They wore matching suits and played Vegas-type showrooms. They weren't working the rock festivals and hippie ballrooms like the more "FM"-type bands were.
I'm not saying this makes them bad or good. I'm just saying that's what they WERE.
The same folks who think the First Edition are legitimately psychedelic are the same ones who think Tom Jones is an authentic stone soul brother who kept doing R&B all through his career. (That's a big-ass lie - he STARTED soul, but Vegas derailed him.)
Does THIS look like a band who would be headlining the Fillmore West?
Not true.
There were bands who shifted from psych to blues-rock or country-rock...but since all these musics had the same fan base, it wasn't like it was a drastic shift. Yeah, the Grateful Dead later changed over to more "rustic" blues or country sounds, but it's not like the psych crowd thought they were selling out. It was all part of the same mindset, and besides, some bands like Kaleidoscope changed genres on the regular.
But the First Edition was different. They were coming from a whole different direction. The hippies were NOT their bread and butter. But they were astute enough to jump on that bandwagon for the one song. That one TOKEN song. Which, I don't think, was even the first single off the LP. The rest of the time they were a kleen-cut, easy-listening AM POP group. Nothing more, nothing less. "Just Dropped In" was jawdropping psych, but don't let that cloud your judgement. Kenny Rogers was not Arthur Lee.
Uh, that was the original argument though. Was "Just Dropped In" psych or
"fake psych" whatever the F*ck that means. If it's "jaw dropping" then it is
not fake. It is psych. That drops your jaw.
And the First Edition, while definitely a sunshine pop group, were a little
more edgy than just the Mickey Newbury cover. They were pretty much the "out
there" group of mainstream country fans - and they had other songs that would
not have been out of place on a Vanilla Fudge record:
Kenny Rogers & The First Edition - Something's Burning
You are talking about now.
Back then there was no such thing as sunshine pop.
Forget, real and fake.
The San Fran groups were underground.
Kenny Rogers was pop.
Not even sell out pop, because he had bought in from the start.
...but they just did the psych for the one token song, overdid the effects in a way that a real psych band wouldn't (that was session musicians, anyway), and didn't really do anything else in that vein. So that's why I call 'em fake. Which doesn't mean bad, necessarily.
Maybe fake is too strong a word. I shoulda said "pseudo-psych?"
Shoot, Kagny & the Dirty Rats were fake new wave (from Motown, yet) and I love their one album to death!
"Something's Burning" - a would-be Fudge song?
Well, I can't hear that, although I always did like that cut...
Matter of fact, I don't even think the country market showed Kenny any serious love until the seventies, around the time he broke with "Lucille" and the First Edition split up. He was considered a pop act up until then.
I considered him fake psych in the 60s, fake country in the 70s, fake actor in the 80s, fake chicken in 90s and fake face in the 00s.
But if others like him, that's cool.
Holy. f*cking. Shit.
I may be drunk, but that shit was incredible.
Here are two of my Country music heroes???..
Willie Nelson. Willie, his band and crew are the nicest group of people you could ever meet. Every time we do a show with them they have their friend bring a huge BBQ rig backstage and cook dinner for us. Best dudes EVAR!!!!!!
Willie and BC
Paul English has been Willie???s drummer since they started together in 1955. Paul is one of the coolest guys I have ever met in my life. Always rocks Cazals, wears all black on stage, used to wear a black cape when he played live and used to carry three guns at a time!!!!! One in his pocket, one in the back of his belt and one in his boot! Paul was responsible for collecting their pay from all the shady promoters back in the day. Paul told me so many crazy stories about blocking promoters in phone booths with cars, jacking promoter???s cars up on fork lifts and taking the keys, flashing guns on fools, etc??? so they could get paid!!!! Paul said he quit packing gats after his grand kids were born. Paul still settles all of their shows!
???Me and Paul??? Paul and BC???.
Is there actually a family reunion happening in your comment section - or is that some kind of waxidermy inside joke?
Ghetto Superstar!
Real family reunion.....pretty cool.
This notion that "true" psych music has some inherent tie-in with drugs and being part of "The Revolution" is bogus in my opinion.
While it may have it's roots with artists who did indeed participate in both, once the genre was defined, anyone could and did play psychedelic music.
Gabor Szabo recorded one of my top ten fave psych songs of all-time ("Walking On Nails") and he was no more of a "true psych artist" than Kenny Rogers.
Having run a label that has released 60+ LP's and having spoken to literally hundreds of musicisns from the 60's-70's rock scene, an amazing high percentage didn't even do drugs nor were "revolting" against 'the man"....for the most part they just wanted to get laid.
The most psychedelic LP I have been involved with, Cold Sun, has more to do with horror movies and lizards than drugs and revolution.
I didn't really mention either. I was thinking more in terms of sound and image.
Understood....that statement was directed at one of LW's earlier post.
Not my words below, but fairly accurate....and for at least one song, they did indeed capture the sound and image of a "real" psych band.
The ambience of rebellious psychedelia was widespread at this time of course, and the band, re-titled Kenny Rogers & the First Edition within a year, tapped into this mood perfectly again through their war protest song Ruby, Don???t Take Your Love To Town, folk anthem Reuben James and 1970???s moodily atmospheric Something???s Burning.
Where did you get this from? Kenny Rogers' website? "The band tapped into rebellious psychedelia" once and only once. This bio makes him sound like he was prime Woodstock material (which he wasn't).
And maybe I missed something, but "Ruby..." wasn't protesting the Vietnam War so much as it was Ruby selling her body on the street ("it's hard to love a man whose legs are bent and paralyzed/and the wants and needs of a woman your age, Ruby, I realize").