i wouldn't care if it stopped there but there are certain people that are put into positions as experts that are doing comp's or linernotes that have no idea wtf they're talking about and therefore, certain said comps are not selling well. mainly because the audience that the label is tryin to cater to with these comps are like wtf this ain't salsa or jazz or whatever....
There's someone I used to know back from the garage/psych days who went on to a minor career doing liner notes/annotation for 60s pop/rock stuff, who had absolutely no basic knowledge about music, but could quote chapter and verse in a 'Tiger Beat'/fanboy(girl) kind of way. Infuriating to say the least.
i wouldn't care if it stopped there but there are certain people that are put into positions as experts that are doing comp's or linernotes that have no idea wtf they're talking about and therefore, certain said comps are not selling well. mainly because the audience that the label is tryin to cater to with these comps are like wtf this ain't salsa or jazz or whatever....
you keep mentioning "certain people" but not putting your mackhand down on it. name names or you have doodoo breath forever!
This reminds me of how I am the go-to person of my family whenever they have a music or movie related question. I'm young and have as much oft listened to common staples in my collection as I do obscurities. However, while I consider myself to be a humble guy, it's funny that they think I'm Rainman for answering questions about hit songs or popular bands
Aunt: "Who did that song where the sound goes like (immitates the octave scale Moog from "Summer Madness")? Me: "Kool & The Gang" "Holy sh*t! How would someone your age know that?!?!"
As far as the "kids these days and their Internet research" thing, I think it's dumb for a young Johnny Come Lately to think he knows it all when he hasn't "actually been there, man!". Sure, the 'net makes information access easier and quicker than olde decades of yore, but research about an esoteric topic is still research. Old crusty dudes who love to flex their authenticity to us know-nothing whippersnappers are just as snobby as Timmy Digalot, in my opinion
The internet has enabled insecure nobodies the means to pose as somebodies who know what they are talking about, this in turn has resulted in a veritable plethora of assmonkeys who partake in the pissing contest of hoarding knowledge which is rapidly replacing the subject of that knowledge (in this case: music).
in other words:
a bunch of cunts think that reading/writing a f*cking blog legitimizes and somehow connects them to whatever it is they are bleating on about (and were not there to experience firsthand). but it does not matter because they are, at the end of the day: a bunch of cunts.
so my beef is why is it that these younger cats who collect and read about music always seem always to have to prove they r more knowledge about a culture or music than someone who helped create the culture and music they sweat????
The "proving" part is the root of it all. Insecure people show their true colors by acting this way. All they are really proving to us is that they just don't get it. Because the more you truly know, the more you realize that you don't know shit.
And yes we should all agree, "you should shut the F*ck up when grown folks is talking." Isn't half the fun of this shit actually respecting and listening to these dudes? I like not knowing, because I love the never ending learning part of this.
The internet has enabled insecure nobodies the means to pose as somebodies who know what they are talking about, this in turn has resulted in a veritable plethora of assmonkeys who partake in the pissing contest of hoarding knowledge which is rapidly replacing the subject of that knowledge (in this case: music).
in other words:
a bunch of cunts think that reading/writing a f*cking blog legitimizes and somehow connects them to whatever it is they are bleating on about (and were not there to experience firsthand). but it does not matter because they are, at the end of the day: a bunch of cunts.
if you're interested in certain music, have spent time learning about it, and want to share what you've learned, even if you're not an OG, what's wrong with writing a blog about the music you love and the research on it that you've done?
you must be talking about something more than just this, b/c i'm sure you don't believe that everyone with a music blog who wasn't "on the scene originally" is a cunt. right?
i'm unclear about exactly what/who you're griping over, but i'm curious - plaese explain further.
if you're interested in certain music, have spent time learning about it, and want to share what you've learned, even if you're not an OG, what's wrong with writing a blog about the music you love and the research on it that you've done?
you must be talking about something more than just this, b/c i'm sure you don't believe that everyone with a music blog who wasn't "on the scene originally" is a cunt. right?
i'm unclear about exactly what/who you're griping over, but i'm curious - plaese explain further.
Part of the problem though is that the traditional channels and traditional gatekeepers have all vanished or been marginalized. Nowadays, if you want to write - even if you have no interest in the blog interplay that dominates the internet these days - you have to blog. What are you going to do, in 2009, go to journalism school and apply at your local paper? When that local paper is going bankrupt? If you want to DJ, why be a crate boy/apprentice to someone else? Better to get your mix out there and get noticed yourself. Get your shit on every internet channel you can. Who cares what you know or don't know?
Likewise if you want to learn about a certain type of music. The elders are often inaccessible. There's fewer and fewer radio shows dedicated to it. The trade-off is that if you have satellite radio or the internet there's often thousands of sources for information on any old sub-genre or small corner of a musical scene. The current way information is organized and business gets done lends itself more to untested theories and self-proclaimed experts. Then again, there's new stuff popping up every day that was on nobody's radar even 10 years ago. It never ends, and that's beautiful.
Unfortunately, self-flattery is what gets you in the door these days. It's the "closed mouths don't get fed" thing to the extreme. Every young asshole going into a record label, club, college or corporation is going to proclaim themselves expert of all they survey. Fake it till you make it. Who cares if you haven't moved from one to the other if nobody can tell the difference?
i wouldn't care if it stopped there but there are certain people that are put into positions as experts that are doing comp's or linernotes that have no idea wtf they're talking about and therefore, certain said comps are not selling well. mainly because the audience that the label is tryin to cater to with these comps are like wtf this ain't salsa or jazz or whatever....
There's someone I used to know back from the garage/psych days who went on to a minor career doing liner notes/annotation for 60s pop/rock stuff, who had absolutely no basic knowledge about music, but could quote chapter and verse in a 'Tiger Beat'/fanboy(girl) kind of way. Infuriating to say the least.
LOL
I know EXACTLY who you mean. Man, she was crazy UN-knowlegeable, but knew who to get the knowledge from! And a weird chick to top it off. That remains a mystery to me to this day. How'd she do it?
Unfortunately, self-flattery is what gets you in the door these days. It's the "closed mouths don't get fed" thing to the extreme. Every young asshole going into a record label, club, college or corporation is going to proclaim themselves expert of all they survey. Fake it till you make it. Who cares if you haven't moved from one to the other if nobody can tell the difference?
This is the real.
Too bad so much of this now seems to be done on an individual basis....I don't get the vibe of 'scenes' like there used to be (ie. a GROUP of people and groups of groups hanging, competing, partying together). I know it's still a reality, they just don't seem as accessible or visible like the kinds I grew up in.
i wouldn't care if it stopped there but there are certain people that are put into positions as experts that are doing comp's or linernotes that have no idea wtf they're talking about and therefore, certain said comps are not selling well. mainly because the audience that the label is tryin to cater to with these comps are like wtf this ain't salsa or jazz or whatever....
There's someone I used to know back from the garage/psych days who went on to a minor career doing liner notes/annotation for 60s pop/rock stuff, who had absolutely no basic knowledge about music, but could quote chapter and verse in a 'Tiger Beat'/fanboy(girl) kind of way. Infuriating to say the least.
LOL
I know EXACTLY who you mean. Man, she was crazy UN-knowlegeable, but knew who to get the knowledge from! And a weird chick to top it off. That remains a mystery to me to this day. How'd she do it?
I knew you'd know who that was. Oddly enough, she's become a born again Catholic abstinence advocate and all around right wing crank. "Weird chick" doesn't even begin to tell the story...
Hey, shit cuts both ways. I know plenty of older record cats that want to sit there all day talking glory days shit and dissing the youngsters (meanwhile tapping their knowledge to keep up with the hustle).
i wouldn't care if it stopped there but there are certain people that are put into positions as experts that are doing comp's or linernotes that have no idea wtf they're talking about and therefore, certain said comps are not selling well. mainly because the audience that the label is tryin to cater to with these comps are like wtf this ain't salsa or jazz or whatever....
There's someone I used to know back from the garage/psych days who went on to a minor career doing liner notes/annotation for 60s pop/rock stuff, who had absolutely no basic knowledge about music, but could quote chapter and verse in a 'Tiger Beat'/fanboy(girl) kind of way. Infuriating to say the least.
LOL
I know EXACTLY who you mean. Man, she was crazy UN-knowlegeable, but knew who to get the knowledge from! And a weird chick to top it off. That remains a mystery to me to this day. How'd she do it?
I knew you'd know who that was. Oddly enough, she's become a born again Catholic abstinence advocate and all around right wing crank. "Weird chick" doesn't even begin to tell the story...
Shit, that just made my day! Bill used to be MERCILESS clowning her, and she was like a bad barnacle when we did those two trips to NYC and the area back then.
they are not always incessible...alot of times it comes to class issues. i have seen it happen in front of me. meaning like the two latin cats to some may "look too poor" to know anything and this english cat was well- dressed and and clean... so the assumption could be 'he lloks like he knows what he is talking about.' assumptions close alot of doors on people too...
Hey, shit cuts both ways. I know plenty of older record cats that want to sit there all day talking glory days shit and dissing the youngsters (meanwhile tapping their knowledge to keep up with the hustle).
So why do you think there aren't more old crusty guys like me here at SS??
if you're interested in certain music, have spent time learning about it, and want to share what you've learned, even if you're not an OG, what's wrong with writing a blog about the music you love and the research on it that you've done?
you must be talking about something more than just this, b/c i'm sure you don't believe that everyone with a music blog who wasn't "on the scene originally" is a cunt. right?
i'm unclear about exactly what/who you're griping over, but i'm curious - plaese explain further.
Read the thread.
i had already done that. no need for crustiness, i'm tryin to get some clarification.
this started b/c of a problem w/young cats not showing respect and deference to the true-school, as it were. in the original post, the kid shouldn't have been introduced as "most knowledgeable salsa dude" to the legendary cats, but rather he should've been introduced as a kid who had dedicated a huge amount of his time and energy to learning about these guys and is doing what he can to keep their legacy and their music alive and to promote their creations, etc. etc.
imo that's what a lot, maybe even the majority, of the music blogs out there are doing. i don't see most of them showing disrespect for the experiences and knowledge of the older cats who lived the stuff.
Hey, shit cuts both ways. I know plenty of older record cats that want to sit there all day talking glory days shit and dissing the youngsters (meanwhile tapping their knowledge to keep up with the hustle).
So why do you think there aren't more old crusty guys like me here at SS??
They don't know as much about music as the young British dudes?
so i over heard a convo with two older latin cats about a situation at the last wfmu show regarding being introduced to a young english cat. they were laughing because this person (the young cat) was introduced as THE one person who knows everything about salsa music. they went on to explain that they were told 'no one u know knows more than he.' mind you this was the first this cat had EVER been to NYC. now these two older gentlemen (in the their 70's) have been mainstays in the latin music community for egons, and they both have grown up with some of latin music's legends. they said they just walked away because they felt like they were talking to two fools.
another example of this fuckery...I met this cat in boston before I left 15 years that claimed to know EVERYTHING about jazz...."even more than your father does." now my father is 84 and grew up with Jaki Bayard. Collected Jazz music and hung with some jazz legends for more years than this cat and I have been on this earth. i just walked away too...
so my beef is why is it that these younger cats who collect and read about music always seem always to have to prove they r more knowledge about a culture or music than someone who helped create the culture and music they sweat????
amir
well in the first instance, it's not NECESSARILY dude's fault if some other herb introduced him that way, but then it becomes his obligation to speak mad humble and be all like 'he was exxagerating'. I know i've gotten introductions before that made me feel uncomfortable and i immediately have to tell people, especially elders, that i have more to learn than i already know, and i respect the knowledge and experience of the elders.
Hey, shit cuts both ways. I know plenty of older record cats that want to sit there all day talking glory days shit and dissing the youngsters (meanwhile tapping their knowledge to keep up with the hustle).
stop talking about me negatively jon! youre making what little feelings i have hurt real bad.
Hey, shit cuts both ways. I know plenty of older record cats that want to sit there all day talking glory days shit and dissing the youngsters (meanwhile tapping their knowledge to keep up with the hustle).
So why do you think there aren't more old crusty guys like me here at SS??
The answer your looking for is that this is a "hip-hop" board where folks have closed minds and bad manners. The style of music - when it's even about music - doesn't concern them and they're tired of being insulted by these young assholes that never etc etc etc
The reality is that plenty of old "crusty" guys come here for info. They just don't stay for the cigarette and small talk.
Dudes either know their shit or they do not. Very simple. One cannot know everything about a single topic, but you can usually tell when someone is heavily versed. Internet "knowledge" often betrays true understanding.
Hey, shit cuts both ways. I know plenty of older record cats that want to sit there all day talking glory days shit and dissing the youngsters (meanwhile tapping their knowledge to keep up with the hustle).
So why do you think there aren't more old crusty guys like me here at SS??
The answer your looking for is that this is a "hip-hop" board where folks have closed minds and bad manners. The style of music - when it's even about music - doesn't concern them and they're tired of being insulted by these young assholes that never etc etc etc
The reality is that plenty of old "crusty" guys come here for info. They just don't stay for the cigarette and small talk.
I'm younger than Russell Simmons
But there is some truth in both of your above statements.
Comments
and recognises no national boundaries!
There's someone I used to know back from the garage/psych days who went on to a minor career doing liner notes/annotation for 60s pop/rock stuff, who had absolutely no basic knowledge about music, but could quote chapter and verse in a 'Tiger Beat'/fanboy(girl) kind of way. Infuriating to say the least.
you keep mentioning "certain people" but not putting your mackhand down on it. name names or you have doodoo breath forever!
Aunt: "Who did that song where the sound goes like (immitates the octave scale Moog from "Summer Madness")?
Me: "Kool & The Gang"
"Holy sh*t! How would someone your age know that?!?!"
As far as the "kids these days and their Internet research" thing, I think it's dumb for a young Johnny Come Lately to think he knows it all when he hasn't "actually been there, man!". Sure, the 'net makes information access easier and quicker than olde decades of yore, but research about an esoteric topic is still research. Old crusty dudes who love to flex their authenticity to us know-nothing whippersnappers are just as snobby as Timmy Digalot, in my opinion
in other words:
a bunch of cunts think that reading/writing a f*cking blog legitimizes and somehow connects them to whatever it is they are bleating on about (and were not there to experience firsthand). but it does not matter because they are, at the end of the day: a bunch of cunts.
The "proving" part is the root of it all. Insecure people show their true colors by acting this way. All they are really proving to us is that they just don't get it. Because the more you truly know, the more you realize that you don't know shit.
And yes we should all agree, "you should shut the F*ck up when grown folks is talking." Isn't half the fun of this shit actually respecting and listening to these dudes? I like not knowing, because I love the never ending learning part of this.
if you're interested in certain music, have spent time learning about it, and want to share what you've learned, even if you're not an OG, what's wrong with writing a blog about the music you love and the research on it that you've done?
you must be talking about something more than just this, b/c i'm sure you don't believe that everyone with a music blog who wasn't "on the scene originally" is a cunt. right?
i'm unclear about exactly what/who you're griping over, but i'm curious - plaese explain further.
Read the thread.
Likewise if you want to learn about a certain type of music. The elders are often inaccessible. There's fewer and fewer radio shows dedicated to it. The trade-off is that if you have satellite radio or the internet there's often thousands of sources for information on any old sub-genre or small corner of a musical scene. The current way information is organized and business gets done lends itself more to untested theories and self-proclaimed experts. Then again, there's new stuff popping up every day that was on nobody's radar even 10 years ago. It never ends, and that's beautiful.
Unfortunately, self-flattery is what gets you in the door these days. It's the "closed mouths don't get fed" thing to the extreme. Every young asshole going into a record label, club, college or corporation is going to proclaim themselves expert of all they survey. Fake it till you make it. Who cares if you haven't moved from one to the other if nobody can tell the difference?
LOL
I know EXACTLY who you mean. Man, she was crazy UN-knowlegeable, but knew who to get the knowledge from! And a weird chick to top it off. That remains a mystery to me to this day. How'd she do it?
This is the real.
Too bad so much of this now seems to be done on an individual basis....I don't get the vibe of 'scenes' like there used to be (ie. a GROUP of people and groups of groups hanging, competing, partying together). I know it's still a reality, they just don't seem as accessible or visible like the kinds I grew up in.
Labeling them "crust" isn't exactly inviting.
I knew you'd know who that was. Oddly enough, she's become a born again Catholic abstinence advocate and all around right wing crank. "Weird chick" doesn't even begin to tell the story...
Hey, shit cuts both ways. I know plenty of older record cats that want to sit there all day talking glory days shit and dissing the youngsters (meanwhile tapping their knowledge to keep up with the hustle).
Shit, that just made my day! Bill used to be MERCILESS clowning her, and she was like a bad barnacle when we did those two trips to NYC and the area back then.
So why do you think there aren't more old crusty guys like me here at SS??
i had already done that. no need for crustiness, i'm tryin to get some clarification.
this started b/c of a problem w/young cats not showing respect and deference to the true-school, as it were. in the original post, the kid shouldn't have been introduced as "most knowledgeable salsa dude" to the legendary cats, but rather he should've been introduced as a kid who had dedicated a huge amount of his time and energy to learning about these guys and is doing what he can to keep their legacy and their music alive and to promote their creations, etc. etc.
imo that's what a lot, maybe even the majority, of the music blogs out there are doing. i don't see most of them showing disrespect for the experiences and knowledge of the older cats who lived the stuff.
do you disagree?
They don't know as much about music as the young British dudes?
plaese not to catch feelings over my mass generalizations.
obviously theres good blogs and theres bad blo...
jesus.
am i really doing this?
carry on.
well in the first instance, it's not NECESSARILY dude's fault if some other herb introduced him that way, but then it becomes his obligation to speak mad humble and be all like 'he was exxagerating'. I know i've gotten introductions before that made me feel uncomfortable and i immediately have to tell people, especially elders, that i have more to learn than i already know, and i respect the knowledge and experience of the elders.
however the second cat sounds totally wack
stop talking about me negatively jon! youre making what little feelings i have hurt real bad.
The answer your looking for is that this is a "hip-hop" board where folks have closed minds and bad manners. The style of music - when it's even about music - doesn't concern them and they're tired of being insulted by these young assholes that never etc etc etc
The reality is that plenty of old "crusty" guys come here for info. They just don't stay for the cigarette and small talk.
Dudes either know their shit or they do not. Very simple.
One cannot know everything about a single topic, but you can usually tell when someone is heavily versed.
Internet "knowledge" often betrays true understanding.
I'm younger than Russell Simmons
But there is some truth in both of your above statements.