what annoys me the most...

davidwingatedavidwingate 748 Posts
edited January 2009 in Strut Central
so i over heard a convo with two older latin cats about a situation at the last wfmu show regarding being introduced to a young english cat. they were laughing because this person (the young cat) was introduced as THE one person who knows everything about salsa music. they went on to explain that they were told 'no one u know knows more than he.' mind you this was the first this cat had EVER been to NYC. now these two older gentlemen (in the their 70's) have been mainstays in the latin music community for egons, and they both have grown up with some of latin music's legends. they said they just walked away because they felt like they were talking to two fools.another example of this fuckery...I met this cat in boston before I left 15 years that claimed to know EVERYTHING about jazz...."even more than your father does." now my father is 84 and grew up with Jaki Bayard. Collected Jazz music and hung with some jazz legends for more years than this cat and I have been on this earth. i just walked away too...so my beef is why is it that these younger cats who collect and read about music always seem always to have to prove they r more knowledge about a culture or music than someone who helped create the culture and music they sweat????amir
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  • so i over heard a convo with two older latin cats about a situation at the last wfmu show regarding being introduced to a young english cat. they were laughing because this person (the young cat) was introduced as THE one person who knows everything about salsa music. they went on to explain that they were told 'no one u know knows more than he.' mind you this was the first this cat had EVER been to NYC. now these two older gentlemen (in the their 70's) have been mainstays in the latin music community for egons, and they both have grown up with some of latin music's legends. they said they just walked away because they felt like they were talking to two fools.

    another example of this fuckery...I met this cat in boston before I left 15 years that claimed to know EVERYTHING about jazz...."even more than your father does." now my father is 84 and grew up with Jaki Bayard. Collected Jazz music and hung with some jazz legends for more years than this cat and I have been on this earth. i just walked away too...

    so my beef is why is it that these younger cats who collect and read about music always seem always to have to prove they r more knowledge about a culture or music than someone who helped create the culture and music they sweat????

    amir



    Because they have nothing else of value going on in their lives

  • I blame the internet

  • JuniorJunior 4,853 Posts
    I blame the internet

    Amen.

    Having said that, I personally have heard 85% of all hip hop ever recorded so maybe some of these other guys are telling the truth too.

  • i definitely blame the internet, but I just see like younger when I am in my 70's trying to tell me about Hip-Hop or ho fat beats started...just some craziness that I would have the same reaction as those older latin cats....by the way, that english was only 19 too!!!

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,033 Posts
    If you're 19 you SHOULD be full of arrogance and hubris.

  • J_RoyJ_Roy 33 Posts
    it must be pretty boring to know everything.

  • DB_CooperDB_Cooper Manhatin' 7,823 Posts
    If you're 19 you SHOULD be full of arrogance and hubris.

    And you should be directing it towards partying and getting laid, not trying to impress other dudes with your salsa knowledge.

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,033 Posts
    If you're 19 you SHOULD be full of arrogance and hubris.

    And you should be directing it towards partying and getting laid, not trying to impress other dudes with your salsa knowledge.

    maybe he was talking about salsa dip

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts


    "Mantronix- Needle to the groove"

    --------------------------------

    by 1985 Mantronix was bringing a new sound to the game.

    I cant call that Old "SCHOOL". There's a diiference in his production compared to Kurtis Blow's The Breaks.

    --------------------------------



    We already had this debate early in this thread. I don't give a fukk. If the track is 15+ years old, I'mma call it old school. 85 is almost a quarter of a century people. If I try to tell these whippersnappers at University the difference between old school & new school, they'd laugh and say "OK Old man" haha

  • i used to wonder if record people's obsession with original pressings was partially some psychological need to get the shit that was out back in the day. as if they were there when it was released and bought it in the shop.

    this ties well into the "conscious hiphop" thread.
    study and analyze all you want...doesnt beat the life experience of those who lived it.

    i like original pressings by the way

  • also if you're 19 u should know when to sit and shut up when in the presence of grown folk...lol. seriously, both situations I mentioned annoy the hell of me because I am like these cats believe sooooo much they are the masters of music that is was just laughable. on some level tho, I gotta say that cats like that need to be 'put in their place.'

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Ignorance and Ego.

    One thing I've learned is no matter how much you know, or think you know, about any subject there is always someone out there who knows more.

    Anyone claiming to be THE expert on anydamnthing is usually full of themselves and/or s**t.

    As my Dad taught me...."Self praise is 99% BS".

  • you're totally right, but another thing that annoys about people like that is that some of these cats are getting jobs to put together comp's and do linernotes for labels that we all sweat...i am not going to name any names, but some of these so-called experts are not...

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    so i over heard a convo with two older latin cats about a situation at the last wfmu show regarding being introduced to a young english cat. they were laughing because this person (the young cat) was introduced as THE one person who knows everything about salsa music. they went on to explain that they were told 'no one u know knows more than he.' mind you this was the first this cat had EVER been to NYC. now these two older gentlemen (in the their 70's) have been mainstays in the latin music community for egons, and they both have grown up with some of latin music's legends. they said they just walked away because they felt like they were talking to two fools.

    another example of this fuckery...I met this cat in boston before I left 15 years that claimed to know EVERYTHING about jazz...."even more than your father does." now my father is 84 and grew up with Jaki Bayard. Collected Jazz music and hung with some jazz legends for more years than this cat and I have been on this earth. i just walked away too...

    so my beef is why is it that these younger cats who collect and read about music always seem always to have to prove they r more knowledge about a culture or music than someone who helped create the culture and music they sweat????

    amir



    Because they have nothing else of value going on in their lives

    + the internet=

    19 year old "experts"

    So many people equate how much they know with the size of their vinyl/mp3/cd/book accumulation. In fairness, it is often a third party doing these equations and making these pronouncements, and often the people on the recieving end are humble, knowledgeable individuals just trying to do their thing, and have no interest in being crowned 'the expert'.

  • FrankFrank 2,373 Posts
    I've never understood why some people have aspirations to gather and commit to memory encyclopedic knowledge about any genre of music. Then once these people have the ability to recite complete label discographies, producers and musicians on every single release, they think they mean something and somehow think they're of some sort of relevance to the music itself. crazy! It's this nerd collectro type and the only thing worse than having to listen to them run their mouth is having to hear them spin records...

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    you're totally right, but another thing that annoys about people like that is that some of these cats are getting jobs to put together comp's and do linernotes for labels that we all sweat...i am not going to name any names, but some of these so-called experts are not...

    When you know more than 99% of the population about a certian topic you probably can be called "an expert"

    Just don't be talking that shit around the other 1%.

  • Tons of studies point to collectors' needing to immortalize something about their life, whether it be their taste, their worth, or merely the size of their proverbial schlong.

    So it shouldn't surprise anyone that once a collector rises to the top of their chosen area they think it's something that should have significance to others, at least within their hobby. Problem is, most other collectors think that they should be, or could one day be, better than that dude.

    Collecting is by nature a game of one-upsmanship, and while many folks do it in a good natured fashion... to some... IT IS NOT A GAME.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    you're totally right, but another thing that annoys about people like that is that some of these cats are getting jobs to put together comp's and do linernotes for labels that we all sweat...i am not going to name any names, but some of these so-called experts are not...

    When you know more than 99% of the population about a certian topic you probably can be called "an expert"

    Just don't be talking that shit around the other 1%.

    Nowadays, the musicians are not in the cultural position to be tastemakers. The 'experts' tell people what they should like through blogs/media, there seems to be a line of interference that prevents a direct experience between musician and audience. There always seems to be a go-between, like folks who use waxPo as a bible, or Pitchfork, or Gilles Peterson as a guidepost. It didn't seem to be as pronounced as it is now, but maybe I am just a cranky old F*ck.

  • There are quite a few people in this industry that think the artists are not the end point for appreciation of the music. That the music itself is bigger than the artist. I've heard this from folks who use the argument to justify their downloading of material from blogs, down to guys reissuing records where no proceeds go to the artist because "at least people get to hear the music".

    Talk about something that rubs me the wrong way.

  • theres two sides though...when i was getting my history degree i had a professor who was an expert on vietnam who would tell stories of being before congress or panels or comissions and vets would step to him and say, "no, you werent there...i was and you got it all wrong". meanwhile, this professor has had countless interviews with mcnamara,top ranking vietnamese generals and all their classified documents.

    what can a 22 year old record nerd tell charles wright about funk records? well,did charles wright ever know about 24 karat black?

    still.young bucks with a knowledge of history need to respect the architects and keep their nerdiness in context.

  • FrankFrank 2,373 Posts
    There are quite a few people in this industry that think the artists are not the end point for appreciation of the music. That the music itself is bigger than the artist. I've heard this from folks who use the argument to justify their downloading of material from blogs, down to guys reissuing records where no proceeds go to the artist because "at least people get to hear the music".

    Talk about something that rubs me the wrong way.

    Very true!
    In many cases, the old record labels owns the copyright to recordings. You want to do a legal re-issue, you have to go through the label and the artist often sees no money at all. Some very reputable re-issue labels operate like this because they have to, otherwise they would open themselves up for lawsuits. In an attempt to somehow make this sound right you often hear something along the lines of "yeah, the artists always say they got fusked over by the original label in the first place and now they feel they're getting cheated a second time but artists always say that, if it's true or not and after all, it was the studio that paid for the instruments and they owned the studio and paid the people who did the actual recording...

    but that's a whole other topic...

  • Tons of studies point to collectors' needing to immortalize something about their life, whether it be their taste, their worth, or merely the size of their proverbial schlong.

    So it shouldn't surprise anyone that once a collector rises to the top of their chosen area they think it's something that should have significance to others, at least within their hobby. Problem is, most other collectors think that they should be, or could one day be, better than that dude.

    Collecting is by nature a game of one-upsmanship, and while many folks do it in a good natured fashion... to some... IT IS NOT A GAME.

    haha. so true.

    can we get a "THIS IS NOT A GAME" icon?

    whats joke to you is dead to me

  • behemothbehemoth 2,189 Posts
    who cares? why does it bother any one so much if someone claims they "know everything". let em believe what they want and brush your shoulder off...

    who cares if they do? who cares if they don't?

  • Yeah I mean bottom line though it's just a sense of entitlement... and that's something that stretches across the globe and far beyond music.

  • no shortage of white british guys who think they know eveything about certain genres of minority created american music...

    I know Im just a white guy as well with a obsession with minority-created american musics, but the arrogance of A LOT of british dudes that have come into the shop and think they are educating us about Memphis music and records is overwhelming. Unfortunately, this isnt relegated to youngfolks...lots of 50 y.o. know it all arrogant pricks out there as well...

  • i wouldn't care if it stopped there but there are certain people that are put into positions as experts that are doing comp's or linernotes that have no idea wtf they're talking about and therefore, certain said comps are not selling well. mainly because the audience that the label is tryin to cater to with these comps are like wtf this ain't salsa or jazz or whatever....

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    There are quite a few people in this industry that think the artists are not the end point for appreciation of the music. That the music itself is bigger than the artist. I've heard this from folks who use the argument to justify their downloading of material from blogs, down to guys reissuing records where no proceeds go to the artist because "at least people get to hear the music".

    Talk about something that rubs me the wrong way.


    It's not just the artists, either, it's sometimes the OG audience who gets the shaft. Like with Latin and Jazz scenes in NYC, it's not like this stuff was buried treasure no one appreciated until 2003! This stuff has been at the heart of thousands of people's lives for decades, and to act like you have an inside track on something because you have absorbed a lot of the music and info, well, I truly hope there are not too many fools acting out this fantasy!

    As a guy who collects jazz LPs/CDs and books, I love getting stuff I didn't know about, accumulating and then digesting the music and attendant info, but I am painfully aware that I was in no way a part of any 'jazz scene'. I have had people tell me about the Twin Cities 80s/90s rock music scene as though they were there (and they weren't and were in short pants to boot at the time), and I find it to be laughable.

  • skelskel You can't cheat karma 5,033 Posts
    My money's on the Brit dudes


  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    I have no problem w/ info nerds whether its comics, records,or stamps,etc.

    Just listen to your elders once in a while.

    Gaining Game from the OG's is crucial.

  • PATXPATX 2,820 Posts
    Um I've seen this sort of attitude many times from message board DJ types regarding old school dudes... just because they have raer braeks and DJ'd a jam at their college they think they can look down on cats who grew up in it.

    But at the end of the day, records, much like the music biz, is often about personal relationships and vibe, who you can hang with, rather than absolute knowledge or skills. And that makes some people even more bitter when they realize this. But their online freakouts are usually entertaining.
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