DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Interested as I am to hear it, I don't particularly expect to like an albums-worth of songs where that autotune effect is on every vocal. The thing I liked least about "Lollipop", for instance, was that part in, I think, the second verse, where it created a kind of gurgling effect on Weezy's voice, and just sounded stupid. I mean, what happened to "use sparingly"? Hearing that was when I realised that the autotune vocal is just the Simmons drums, Fairlight stabs or DX7 presets of the here and now. Eventually it will sound hopelessly dated and, once a decade or so has passed and such techniques have acquired a suitably retro patina, people will start using autotune on hooks again, purely for its throwback appeal.b, 21b, 21This Kanye record, and a few other things, have got me thinking that after having listened to rap for over half my life, 2008 might be the year where it finally left me behind for good, or perhaps where I could no longer be bothered to try and keep up. I can't remember a time when there seemed to be so few records that I felt any real enthusiasm for, in a "yeah, this is why I still listen to rap" kind of way. The Killer Mike album was good, and "The Carter 3" was OK, but beyond that it seems to have been little more that the odd diverting single or album track. If I was a working DJ who got more of an opportunity to play hip-hop more often, I guess I'd feel differently, but as a regular garden-variety consumer, I don't know how much benefit there is to be gained from making a special effort to stay on top of shit. I'm sure some will probably tell me I've slept on a ton of great music this year, and I don't doubt I have. At one time, the thought of that would have bothered me. Now I'm not so sure it matters that much.
im serious guys, the problem with this album isnt autotune - its that you dont remember what any of the songs sound like 5 mins after you listen to them. these are just flat out bad songs
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21I wonder why it took so long from when Cher first did it for that "sound" to catch on. I mean, the cher song was 10 years ago, but the auto tune craze really just started showing up within the last few years..... b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21I rekon the emergence of mobile phone/ring tone music is a key cause. That shit is built for mp3/mobile tunes..... I think thats what really irks me about the sound, not that dudes cant sing in tune in the first place and are fronting, and not even the elctronic drag on the vox that can be awkward..its the overodse on treble that starts annoying me.....
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21I wonder why it took so long from when Cher first did it for that "sound" to catch on. I mean, the cher song was 10 years ago, but the auto tune craze really just started showing up within the last few years..... b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21I rekon the emergence of mobile phone/ring tone music is a key cause. That shit is built for mp3/mobile tunes..... I think thats what really irks me about the sound, not that dudes cant sing in tune in the first place and are fronting, and not even the elctronic drag on the vox that can be awkward..its the overodse on treble that starts annoying me..... b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21I'd be curious to hear from folks who work with professional producers about whether this is true or not. Call me naive, but I just don't imagine Kanye's sitting in the studio thinking, "how can I get this to sound better on a mobile phone"?
I catch trains to work and constantly see high schoolers carrying their mobiles and using them as 'mini' boom boxes- no headphones, just 3-4 sitting around holding a mobile with weak ass treble tunes pumping....
Bad mastering continuing over the past few years can be attributed (but not caused) to portable listening (cell phone and MP3 players included) but Autotune is a gigantic stretch. Autotune is big because Akon and T-Pain made it big. If their early singles didn't take off, they either wouldn't have a career or they wouldn't be singing with Autotune. Simple as that.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21I catch trains to work and constantly see high schoolers carrying their mobiles and using them as 'mini' boom boxes- no headphones, just 3-4 sitting around holding a mobile with weak ass treble tunes pumping.... b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21No, I get that. But the question is whether contemporary music production has deliberated shifted to create music that specifically has mobile phone use in mind. b, 21b, 21"Yo, Young Guru - take the bass out, son! You know RAZR's can't handle that low end."
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21I catch trains to work and constantly see high schoolers carrying their mobiles and using them as 'mini' boom boxes- no headphones, just 3-4 sitting around holding a mobile with weak ass treble tunes pumping.... b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21No, I get that. But the question is whether contemporary music production has deliberated shifted to create music that specifically has mobile phone use in mind. b, 21b, 21"Yo, Young Guru - take the bass out, son! You know RAZR's can't handle that low end." b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21I actually believe it is the opposite. I believe modern rnb/rap producers are producing more to the club/cd/super loud fm but the issue is that they are using bass that is too low for smaller speakers, hence the treble effect.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21What's up with dudes with ten/fifteen/twenty thousand posts acting as if they do not themselves represent "the Strut opinion"? Y'all sound like my angry-Caucasian college classmate John who was always talmbout "I'm sorry, I just can't trust white opinions on music."b, 21b, 21IT'S NOT JUST A RIVER IN EGYPT, MY DUDERS. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.b, 21b, 21This is the one thing that irks me most about my 'Strut family. It makes no sense when dudes say shit like "I should've known better to ask a bunch of SoulStrut dudes..." or "I'd expect that kinda reaction from SoulStrut."b, 21b, 21And it's true...it's mostly the well-respected veteranos that do it! b, 21b, 21YOU ARE SOULSTRUT, HOLMESES!!! Stop it already!!!
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21im serious guys, the problem with this album isnt autotune - its that you dont remember what any of the songs sound like 5 mins after you listen to them. these are just flat out bad songs b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21C'mon, I can't be the only one who STILL can't get "Love Lockdown" out of my head.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21What's up with dudes with ten/fifteen/twenty thousand posts acting as if they do not themselves represent "the Strut opinion"? Y'all sound like my angry-Caucasian college classmate John who was always talmbout "I'm sorry, I just can't trust white opinions on music."b, 21b, 21IT'S NOT JUST A RIVER IN EGYPT, MY DUDERS. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.b, 21b, 21This is the one thing that irks me most about my 'Strut family. It makes no sense when dudes say shit like "I should've known better to ask a bunch of SoulStrut dudes..." or "I'd expect that kinda reaction from SoulStrut."b, 21b, 21And it's true...it's mostly the well-respected veteranos that do it! b, 21b, 21YOU ARE SOULSTRUT, HOLMESES!!! Stop it already!!! b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21dude you're over 30 stfu, die now. this ain't for you. fall back. relevant. young people.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21What's up with dudes with ten/fifteen/twenty thousand posts acting as if they do not themselves represent "the Strut opinion"? b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21b, 21I don't have an opinion on this record.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21What's up with dudes with ten/fifteen/twenty thousand posts acting as if they do not themselves represent "the Strut opinion"? Y'all sound like my angry-Caucasian college classmate John who was always talmbout "I'm sorry, I just can't trust white opinions on music."b, 21b, 21IT'S NOT JUST A RIVER IN EGYPT, MY DUDERS. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.b, 21b, 21This is the one thing that irks me most about my 'Strut family. It makes no sense when dudes say shit like "I should've known better to ask a bunch of SoulStrut dudes..." or "I'd expect that kinda reaction from SoulStrut."b, 21b, 21And it's true...it's mostly the well-respected veteranos that do it! b, 21b, 21YOU ARE SOULSTRUT, HOLMESES!!! Stop it already!!! b, 21b, 21h, 21/s1b, 21b, 21I should've known you little SoulStrut dudes would get it twisted.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21 but I just don't imagine Kanye's sitting in the studio thinking, "how can I get this to sound better on a mobile phone"? b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21you're right. Have you seen that youtube video of Kanye and Timbaland geeking out over a kick for Stronger? I think he cares how things sound.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21 but I just don't imagine Kanye's sitting in the studio thinking, "how can I get this to sound better on a mobile phone"? b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21you're right. Have you seen that youtube video of Kanye and Timbaland geeking out over a kick for Stronger? I think he cares how things sound. b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21I'm sayin'. b, 21b, 21I think ringtones and hip-hop have an affinity but I think it has more to do with the relative sparseness of hip-hop arrangements, loud drum beats and hook-heavy melodies, all of which play very well into a ringtone aesthetic. But as I'm suggesting, I don't think you can really credit/blame ringtones for the directions that rap production has gone in but hey, maybe this is what engineers stay up late figuring out.
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21 I don't think you can really credit/blame ringtones for the directions that rap production has gone in but hey, maybe this is what engineers stay up late figuring out. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21I think if this were the case then most engineers would be out of jobs. You could make something sound ringtone ready without an engineer. b, 21b, 21b, 21I'm not mad at the songs I've heard so far. Most were taken down by the time I got around to them, but you can hear some on youtube. I think it will be like Graduation. People will hate, but it's going to get radio play and it will end up growing on hatters. Just my guess. I'll pick it up for sure. So far he's made 3 albums I can listen to, so I'll give this one a try.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
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Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Interested as I am to hear it, I don't particularly expect to like an albums-worth of songs where that autotune effect is on every vocal. The thing I liked least about "Lollipop", for instance, was that part in, I think, the second verse, where it created a kind of gurgling effect on Weezy's voice, and just sounded stupid. I mean, what happened to "use sparingly"? Hearing that was when I realised that the autotune vocal is just the Simmons drums, Fairlight stabs or DX7 presets of the here and now. Eventually it will sound hopelessly dated and, once a decade or so has passed and such techniques have acquired a suitably retro patina, people will start using autotune on hooks again, purely for its throwback appeal.b, 21b, 21This Kanye record, and a few other things, have got me thinking that after having listened to rap for over half my life, 2008 might be the year where it finally left me behind for good, or perhaps where I could no longer be bothered to try and keep up. I can't remember a time when there seemed to be so few records that I felt any real enthusiasm for, in a "yeah, this is why I still listen to rap" kind of way. The Killer Mike album was good, and "The Carter 3" was OK, but beyond that it seems to have been little more that the odd diverting single or album track. If I was a working DJ who got more of an opportunity to play hip-hop more often, I guess I'd feel differently, but as a regular garden-variety consumer, I don't know how much benefit there is to be gained from making a special effort to stay on top of shit. I'm sure some will probably tell me I've slept on a ton of great music this year, and I don't doubt I have. At one time, the thought of that would have bothered me. Now I'm not so sure it matters that much. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21Any more I-left-hip-hop-at-the-yard-just-yesterday stories out of you this evening, lowly rigid strut? Surely, someone has paid $25 for an 8-minute 3AM lip-synched disaster of a show within the last 48 hours. Did the South say in some shape of form that it rules and you're like how can that be when it voted for John McCain? Maybe some kid's sagging pants with pursely puffed back draws called you by your full mommy name and reminded you where your true loyalties lie. Go back to the Yellow Submarine, straight tourist in a whistling teapot.
i honestly cannot tell the difference between autotune/vocoder/talkbox when i hear itb, 21b, 21b, 21 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/game02vy9.gif" alt="" 21
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21Any more I-left-hip-hop-at-the-yard-just-yesterday stories out of you this evening, lowly rigid strut? Surely, someone has paid $25 for an 8-minute 3AM lip-synched disaster of a show within the last 48 hours. Did the South say in some shape of form that it rules and you're like how can that be when it voted for John McCain? Maybe some kid's sagging pants with pursely puffed back draws called you by your full mommy name and reminded you where your true loyalties lie. Go back to the Yellow Submarine, straight tourist in a whistling teapot. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21I'm honored that a humorous aside of mine made it into your well-crafted diatribe.
This is the strangest thread in a long time.b, 21b, 21By the way, does anyone have the link to that article about "loud mastering" and the weariness it has on the listener's ears from a few years ago?
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
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Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21It is a shame to see certain people get hated on like that. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21b, 21Your support is gratefully noted, and thank you very much, but these are big shoulders, and I'm wearing a waterproof coat. Whenever Harv decides its time to run his realness meter over me and see if I pass muster, I remind myself that this is a guy who seriously rates Guns 'n' Roses, and that kind of keeps everything in perspective.
Hatt to bring a dead thread back to life, but I got a good laugh outta this:b, 21b, 21Roger Riley & Teddy Troutman present Death of Autotune:b, 21b, 21Black Moon - Buck em down (autotuned)b, 21b, 21b, 21ATCQ - Electric Relaxation (autotuned)b, 21
Quote:h, 21b, 21Interested as I am to hear it, I don't particularly expect to like an albums-worth of songs where that autotune effect is on every vocal. The thing I liked least about "Lollipop", for instance, was that part in, I think, the second verse, where it created a kind of gurgling effect on Weezy's voice, and just sounded stupid. I mean, what happened to "use sparingly"? Hearing that was when I realised that the autotune vocal is just the Simmons drums, Fairlight stabs or DX7 presets of the here and now. Eventually it will sound hopelessly dated and, once a decade or so has passed and such techniques have acquired a suitably retro patina, people will start using autotune on hooks again, purely for its throwback appeal.b, 21b, 21This Kanye record, and a few other things, have got me thinking that after having listened to rap for over half my life, 2008 might be the year where it finally left me behind for good, or perhaps where I could no longer be bothered to try and keep up. I can't remember a time when there seemed to be so few records that I felt any real enthusiasm for, in a "yeah, this is why I still listen to rap" kind of way. The Killer Mike album was good, and "The Carter 3" was OK, but beyond that it seems to have been little more that the odd diverting single or album track. If I was a working DJ who got more of an opportunity to play hip-hop more often, I guess I'd feel differently, but as a regular garden-variety consumer, I don't know how much benefit there is to be gained from making a special effort to stay on top of shit. I'm sure some will probably tell me I've slept on a ton of great music this year, and I don't doubt I have. At one time, the thought of that would have bothered me. Now I'm not so sure it matters that much. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21Any more I-left-hip-hop-at-the-yard-just-yesterday stories out of you this evening, lowly rigid strut? Surely, someone has paid $25 for an 8-minute 3AM lip-synched disaster of a show within the last 48 hours. Did the South say in some shape of form that it rules and you're like how can that be when it voted for John McCain? Maybe some kid's sagging pants with pursely puffed back draws called you by your full mommy name and reminded you where your true loyalties lie. Go back to the Yellow Submarine, straight tourist in a whistling teapot. b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 211). I've been bumping rap these past few months more than I have in a long time. So many good records are dropping from all over the spectrum.b, 21b, 212).What's wrong with Don McCoy not liking rap anymore? Jesus, you make it sound like it's an abomination on humanity. Let the dude i1live[/i].
There's two different questions to be asked about this album...One is "will it sell to the masses?" And the answer is yes. First the Becky's all around the world will melt down when they will hear "Heartless", "Say You Will" and such...Then the gays and the nerds will finally scream "genius" because of the piano "?? la Elton John" displayed all over the LP. Finally, the mainstream medias will enjoy it because he got out of the "hip-hop box" and tried something "different". I bet my shirt that he will oversell his previous albums with this one. Not to forget, he will earn the "POP" label, even in stores. And some might not realize that, but it has its importance in order to reach a new audience.b, 21The second question is "do you like it?". And that's a no. As opposed to some, i can spot the difference between any Antares product and a real vocoder. I can't compare Zapp and T-Pain. Sorry. That's two different worlds. Kanye should have use some presets instead of tweaking the plug-in like that. The result is very questionable on most songs. Exactly like Weezy when he does autotuned mixtapes. It's funny to hear a couple of time, but it won't resist the test of longevity. On some songs, like "Amazing" or "Heartless", the main melody is good. The subs are nice. But overall, it's mad boring. Kanye ain't have shit to say that makes you press rewind. And the structures are very predictable, if not demo-ish. I expected something more musical. The weakest link is really the rythmic part. Not surprising for someone that use to steal drumkits you would tell me, but hey, he could have try something, as opposed to what he did on this LP. The subs are nice. Nothing better than Shawty Redd or Toomp, but nice. However, the drums are so img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ehhzu7.gif" alt="" /1b, 21Who told him that a cowbell as a snare and a fart as a kick would carry a whole song??? It's not original, it's just bad decision (for us, musicologist, not for the average stan). Frankly, he should have gave me the separate tracks, I would have done a better job. Plus my fees would have been reasonable. img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/595.gif" alt="" /1
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