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Hanging A Political Figure In Effigy Is A Crime

RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,987 Posts
edited October 2008 in Strut Central
And the perpetrators should be arrested.....b,121b,121Yay or Nay??
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  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,174 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121And the perpetrators should be arrested.....b,121b,121Yay or Nay?? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121b, 21Because in the past few days people have hung both Obama and Palin in effigy, but I'm guessing one got busted and one didn't?b,121b,121b/wb,121b,121Trick question deflated?
  • GrandfatherGrandfather 2,303 Posts
    do you have some links 16?
  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    img src="http://www.pestproducts.com/images/rattray1.jpg"1
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,987 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121Trick question deflated? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121How is asking for an opinion on a generalized question a "trick"?.
  • GaryGary 3,982 Posts
    Even though I thought the Palin this WAS kinda funny I have say its not cool. I don't know if it should be illegal... maybe.... I'm not sure.b,121b,121The west Hollywood Palin one is funny because that guy was like "I'm just exercising my right to freedom of speech!" and then some neighbors decided to stand if fron of it with a white sheet to hide it. So they asked him about his neighbors and he was like "they're just exercising their freedom of speech too!"b, 21b, 21But still....even though I giggled I don't really think its right.
  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    Found this during my glue trap img search. WTF is wrong with these people?b,121b,121img src="http://blog.peta.org/archives/Home_Depot_Glue_Traps_4.jpg"1
  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,174 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Trick question deflated? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121How is asking for an opinion on a generalized question a "trick"?. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b, 21Because you were expecting people to assume that it was Obama, at which point you come up with the big AHA! moment, confounding the tired expectations/ideas of the left, showing us again that both the right and the left are nuts, and the well considered middle is always an island of sanity.
  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,174 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121do you have some links 16? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121b, 21The Palin effigy has been a regular feature at Drudge for the last week. I heard about the Obama on the radio.
  • keithvanhornkeithvanhorn 3,855 Posts
    1st amendment right is balanced with govt's interest to protect against things like riots or violence. if your referring to the kids at the university of texas who hung obama in effigy...in a noose and from a tree...i'd argue that their 1st amendment rights are being infringed upon for their own benefit.
  • nzshadownzshadow 5,526 Posts
    Nay.b, 21b, 21and flag burning is funny.b,121b,121In the words of Banksy: People that wave flags don't deserve to have one.
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,987 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Trick question deflated? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121How is asking for an opinion on a generalized question a "trick"?. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b, 21Because you were expecting people to assume that it was Obama, at which point you come up with the big AHA! moment, confounding the tired expectations/ideas of the left, showing us again that both the right and the left are nuts, and the well considered middle is always an island of sanity. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Well...you're right......the far left and right ARE nuts for the most part.....but I was asking for an opinion on whether the act should be a crime, regardless of who is "hung".
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,987 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,1211st amendment right is balanced with govt's interest to protect against things like riots or violence. if your referring to the kids at the university of texas who hung obama in effigy...in a noose and from a tree...i'd argue that their 1st amendment rights are being infringed upon for their own benefit. b, 21b,121h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121Link please...I did NOT see this about the University of Texas??
  • fishmongerfunkfishmongerfunk 4,145 Posts
    its proably covered by the first amendment unless it is defamatory or incites violence.b,121b, 21the university of kentucky republicans who hung the latest effigy of obama were arrested on disorderly conduct charges. they also violated the school's code of ethics. the police generally aren;t motivated by liberalism or conservatism. this is another phony controversy drummed up by matt drudge to advance some phony arguement about there being a pervasive double standard (media and otherwise) that is out to thwart the republicans.
  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    Where I'm from, lynching is not something to kid around about. b, 21b, 21But why do you qualify "political figure"? What is that exactly?
  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121Where I'm from, lynching is not something to kid around about. b, 21b, 21 b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121Skeleton lands man in jail for hate crimeb,121TheStar.com - GTA b, 21 b, 21Black-painted dummy strung up in Keswickb,121b,121October 30, 2008 b, 21Robyn Doolittleb,121Staff Reporterb,121b,121A Keswick man who strung a black-painted skeleton from a noose underneath an oversized Confederate flag has been sentenced to 45 days in jail. b, 21b, 21Luke Granados, 26, pleaded guilty earlier this month to wilfully promoting hate.b,121b,121The life-sized dummy was strung up from a flagpole underneath the Confederate flag in Keswick, north of Toronto, sometime in late October, early November last year.b,121b,121A black man working in the area spotted the display and contacted his supervisor, who got in touch with the municipality. b, 21b, 21York police began an investigation and requested Granados take down the "disgusting" display, said York Regional Police Chief Armand La Barge. b, 21b, 21Granados refused, said Crown attorney Peter Westgate.b,121b,121"(His original) position was it was a Halloween decoration," said Westgate.b,121b,121At the time, several neighbours contacted by the Star were asked why they never reported the skeleton to police. "This is a small town. They keep to themselves. We keep to ourselves," said one resident. b, 21b,121By December, investigators were able to obtain a warrant to have it removed. Following a six-month probe by the Attorney General's office, both Granados and his 22-year-old brother, Russell, were charged with hate crimes under the Criminal Code this past May.b, 21b, 21Charges against the younger brother were withdrawn, said Westgate.
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,987 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121Where I'm from, lynching is not something to kid around about. b, 21b, 21But why do you qualify "political figure"? What is that exactly? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121I think there is a deep history around the world of burning & hanging political leaders/candidates in effigy as a means of protest.
  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Trick question deflated? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121How is asking for an opinion on a generalized question a "trick"?. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b, 21Because you were expecting people to assume that it was Obama, at which point you come up with the big AHA! moment, confounding the tired expectations/ideas of the left, showing us again that both the right and the left are nuts, and the well considered middle is always an island of sanity. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Well...you're right......the far left and right ARE nuts for the most part.....but I was asking for an opinion on whether the act should be a crime, regardless of who is "hung". b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I guess the way I see it, if you are doing it on YOUR property, and said item is not causing physical harm (ie, causing traffic accidents due to where it's displayed, undue visual distraction) to others, then it should be protected speech.b,121b,121If it is somewhere 'Public', ie a University, a commonly attended place such as a mall or government-owned property, I would say that it would not be protected speech, as the community standard would be applied and no doubt political effigies would probably not meet that standard.b,121b,121In other words, go ahead and hang anything in your OWN backyard, but paying tuition at a University or College does not save your ass if you choose to hang it there. Both are wastes of time, IMO. Have a little dignity, for Chissakes.
  • fishmongerfunkfishmongerfunk 4,145 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121 both Granados and his 22-year-old brother, Russell, were charged with hate crimes under the Criminal Code. b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121in canada we have codified hate-speech crimes (see the keegstra case)but i do not beleive that is the case in the us.
  • verb606verb606 2,518 Posts
    An extremely bad look? Yes. A crime? eeeehhhhhh I'd have to say no. b, 21b, 21They're not really hurting anybody. If the surrounding community is offended, they have the right to complain to the homeowner or petition or something like that. b, 21b, 21I want riots and violence to be prevented, but who's call is it to say "we're squashing this to avoid a riot."
  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Where I'm from, lynching is not something to kid around about. b, 21b, 21But why do you qualify "political figure"? What is that exactly? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121I think there is a deep history around the world of burning political leaders/candidates in effigy as a means of protest. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121So you get extra time if your effigy is of the former county comptroller vs some dude?
  • GaryGary 3,982 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Where I'm from, lynching is not something to kid around about. b, 21b, 21 b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121Skeleton lands man in jail for hate crimeb,121TheStar.com - GTA b, 21 b, 21Black-painted dummy strung up in Keswickb,121b,121October 30, 2008 b, 21Robyn Doolittleb,121Staff Reporterb,121b,121A Keswick man who strung a black-painted skeleton from a noose underneath an oversized Confederate flag has been sentenced to 45 days in jail. b, 21b, 21Luke Granados, 26, pleaded guilty earlier this month to wilfully promoting hate.b,121b,121The life-sized dummy was strung up from a flagpole underneath the Confederate flag in Keswick, north of Toronto, sometime in late October, early November last year.b,121b,121A black man working in the area spotted the display and contacted his supervisor, who got in touch with the municipality. b, 21b, 21York police began an investigation and requested Granados take down the "disgusting" display, said York Regional Police Chief Armand La Barge. b, 21b, 21Granados refused, said Crown attorney Peter Westgate.b,121b,121"(His original) position was it was a Halloween decoration," said Westgate.b,121b,121At the time, several neighbours contacted by the Star were asked why they never reported the skeleton to police. "This is a small town. They keep to themselves. We keep to ourselves," said one resident. b, 21b,121By December, investigators were able to obtain a warrant to have it removed. Following a six-month probe by the Attorney General's office, both Granados and his 22-year-old brother, Russell, were charged with hate crimes under the Criminal Code this past May.b, 21b, 21Charges against the younger brother were withdrawn, said Westgate. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b, 21The best part about this is that dude think black people have black bones!
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,987 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Where I'm from, lynching is not something to kid around about. b, 21b, 21But why do you qualify "political figure"? What is that exactly? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121I think there is a deep history around the world of burning political leaders/candidates in effigy as a means of protest. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121So you get extra time if your effigy is of the former county comptroller vs some dude? b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I have no idea......If I hang an effigy of my neighbor in my front yard is it a crime??
  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Where I'm from, lynching is not something to kid around about. b, 21b, 21But why do you qualify "political figure"? What is that exactly? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121I think there is a deep history around the world of burning political leaders/candidates in effigy as a means of protest. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121So you get extra time if your effigy is of the former county comptroller vs some dude? b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I have no idea......If I hang an effigy of my neighbor in my front yard is it a crime?? b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Is your neighbor black?
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,987 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121I guess the way I see it, if you are doing it on YOUR property, and said item is not causing physical harm (ie, causing traffic accidents due to where it's displayed, undue visual distraction) to others, then it should be protected speech.b,121b,121If it is somewhere 'Public', ie a University, a commonly attended place such as a mall or government-owned property, I would say that it would not be protected speech, as the community standard would be applied and no doubt political effigies would probably not meet that standard.b,121b,121In other words, go ahead and hang anything in your OWN backyard, but paying tuition at a University or College does not save your ass if you choose to hang it there. Both are wastes of time, IMO. Have a little dignity, for Chissakes. b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121So college protestors on a college campus with effigies of GWB being hung/burned would not be protected??
  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,987 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Where I'm from, lynching is not something to kid around about. b, 21b, 21But why do you qualify "political figure"? What is that exactly? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121I think there is a deep history around the world of burning political leaders/candidates in effigy as a means of protest. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121So you get extra time if your effigy is of the former county comptroller vs some dude? b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I have no idea......If I hang an effigy of my neighbor in my front yard is it a crime?? b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Is your neighbor black? b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121One is, one isn't......can I hang one in effigy but not the other??b,121b,121I'm not asking what's morally right, just legally.
  • fishmongerfunkfishmongerfunk 4,145 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121can I hang one in effigy but not the other?? I'm not asking what's morally right, just legally. b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121it all depends on if the effigy incites violence and disorder or is defamatory. given the historical lynching of black men in the south, i would say that would be a fairly provocative display; arguably one that foreseeably would foment unrest.
  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I guess the way I see it, if you are doing it on YOUR property, and said item is not causing physical harm (ie, causing traffic accidents due to where it's displayed, undue visual distraction) to others, then it should be protected speech.b,121b,121If it is somewhere 'Public', ie a University, a commonly attended place such as a mall or government-owned property, I would say that it would not be protected speech, as the community standard would be applied and no doubt political effigies would probably not meet that standard.b,121b,121In other words, go ahead and hang anything in your OWN backyard, but paying tuition at a University or College does not save your ass if you choose to hang it there. Both are wastes of time, IMO. Have a little dignity, for Chissakes. b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121So college protestors on a college campus with effigies of GWB being hung/burned would not be protected?? b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Well, I am saying the police/campus security could actually make a case for confiscating it, and the person having it taken would have a case for keeping it, and that would be able to be decided in a court should the people involved want to take it to that level. But I imagine that given a 'context', like a protest, it would be a high bar for the police to prove that said effigy was in some way presenting some clear and present danger. Without a context, hanging such an item in a tree could be said to have an implied threat.b,121b,121Doing it on your own property could also be said to do this, but again, the person being 'threatened' would need to meet a pretty high bar of proof that this alleged 'threat' was actual.b,121b,121Just sayin'.
  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Where I'm from, lynching is not something to kid around about. b, 21b, 21But why do you qualify "political figure"? What is that exactly? b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121I think there is a deep history around the world of burning political leaders/candidates in effigy as a means of protest. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121So you get extra time if your effigy is of the former county comptroller vs some dude? b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I have no idea......If I hang an effigy of my neighbor in my front yard is it a crime?? b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Is your neighbor black? b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121One is, one isn't......can I hang one in effigy but not the other??b,121b,121I'm not asking what's morally right, just legally. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121You're in Texas. So I'm sure it's not illegal. Just a really bad look that deserves a punch out; however, with one neighbor, you should also expect Al Sharpton's entourage to visit for a couple of days.
  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    You could be Joe the Racist.b,121b,121b/w b, 21b, 21a decent book deal
  • keithvanhornkeithvanhorn 3,855 Posts
    /font1
    Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121can I hang one in effigy but not the other?? I'm not asking what's morally right, just legally. b, 21b, 21h,121
    font class="post"1b,121b,121it all depends on if the effigy incites violence and disorder or is defamatory. b, 21b, 21h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b, 21please to explain how hanging someone in effigy would be defamatory.
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