b,121people who keep thinking fannie and freddie are the 'root' of the problems on wall street really need to step it up. the only reason right wingers keep bringing up those two companies is bcuz those were the only examples of times when they were asking for more reform - and the reason they wanted reform of those two was because they were the only companies that were publicly owned, which right wingers hated bcuz they were providing low-income ppl w/ access to housing (see the CRA act of 1977) - low income ppl who had a much higher percentage of repayment than the ppl who were flipping condos in san diego and FL in order to make $$$
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b,121fannie and freddie were responsible for sub prime shit also, but the regulation they DID have meant that they weren't nearly as bad as privately owned companies, which was what republicans wanted to turn them into in the first place.
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b,121Good playing-the-dialectical-game observation, but who is only blaming those 2 companies?
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b,121Not me, that's for sure. It's far too systematic than just 2 bad apples spoiling the bunch.
b,121people who keep thinking fannie and freddie are the 'root' of the problems on wall street really need to step it up. the only reason right wingers keep bringing up those two companies is bcuz those were the only examples of times when they were asking for more reform - and the reason they wanted reform of those two was because they were the only companies that were publicly owned, which right wingers hated bcuz they were providing low-income ppl w/ access to housing (see the CRA act of 1977) - low income ppl who had a much higher percentage of repayment than the ppl who were flipping condos in san diego and FL in order to make $$$
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b,121fannie and freddie were responsible for sub prime shit also, but the regulation they DID have meant that they weren't nearly as bad as privately owned companies, which was what republicans wanted to turn them into in the first place.
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b,121fannie and freddie did not lend to subprime borrowers.
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b,121source? im reading multiple sources saying otherwise
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font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121i don't know if it never happened, but that just isn't the way that Fannie/Freddie work. the whole subprime market was based on those candidates who couldn't qualify for a traditional freddie/fannie backed mortgage. b,121b,121i suppose when they are buying bundles of thousands of mortgages it might get tricky. however, they only got stung when the rates of foreclosure started snowballing for normal borrowers. remember that the housing bubble is what led us to where we are. the subprime borrowers would still be fine if housing prices had continued to rise.
Here is an interesting fact. Before the 700b was authorized the treasury dept, SEC, and the Federal Reserve had already spent about 700b starting with the bailout of BearStearns. The minimum these crooks are going to give to those crooks will exceed 1.4 trillion. b,121b,121As I recall Fannie and Freddie buy out cost about 200b.b,121b,121I'm not sure what F&F's downfall was. I do know that people who create home low income homes have fought against subprime lenders. More than 5 years ago Habitat For Humanity was raising the alarm. People who got into HfH homes were target bu Sub prime lenders. These lenders would offer loans of 120% of the homes value with no $ down and great initial rates. But eventually rates would crime to 13% or more. b,121b,121About 15yago in Sweden there was a bank crisis. The Swedish government took ownership off all the banks. They went through the books. Those banks whose books were solid were returned to owners. Banks whose books were bad had assets seized. The government took on the bad debit and sold off the assets. The banking system was saved at great cost to bankers and shareholders who took on bad debit, but little cost to the government or economy. b,121b,121Instead of looking toward best practices like Sweden the US bailout is based on worse practices that our country has pressured other countries not use. b,121b,121We got screwed in the bailout. 2yrs, 4yrs, 6yrs from now, we will have to listen to politicians cry that if they had known how bad the bailout was they wouldn't have voted for it. Others will proudly proclaim they were against it before they were for it. No one will defend it.
b,121people who keep thinking fannie and freddie are the 'root' of the problems on wall street really need to step it up. the only reason right wingers keep bringing up those two companies is bcuz those were the only examples of times when they were asking for more reform - and the reason they wanted reform of those two was because they were the only companies that were publicly owned, which right wingers hated bcuz they were providing low-income ppl w/ access to housing (see the CRA act of 1977) - low income ppl who had a much higher percentage of repayment than the ppl who were flipping condos in san diego and FL in order to make $$$
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b,121fannie and freddie were responsible for sub prime shit also, but the regulation they DID have meant that they weren't nearly as bad as privately owned companies, which was what republicans wanted to turn them into in the first place.
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b,121fannie and freddie did not lend to subprime borrowers.
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b,121source? im reading multiple sources saying otherwise
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b,121i don't know if it never happened, but that just isn't the way that Fannie/Freddie work. the whole subprime market was based on those candidates who couldn't qualify for a traditional freddie/fannie backed mortgage.
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b,121i suppose when they are buying bundles of thousands of mortgages it might get tricky. however, they only got stung when the rates of foreclosure started snowballing for normal borrowers. remember that the housing bubble is what led us to where we are. the subprime borrowers would still be fine if housing prices had continued to rise.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Right. b,121b,121F&F loaned to low income borrowers. But not to people who couldn't qualify. Among the problems listed about was the 2004 SEC increase in leaverage allowed by banks. In the past banks had to have a cash to loan ratio of something like 1:14. The SEC increased it to 1:30. Wa Mu, Wachovia... took full advantage. Wells Fargo, BofA stuck to a more conservative ratio.b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dominoes22.gif" alt="" 21
b,121Keating 5 has been released and it will have a LOT more traction than the "terrorist" stuff
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b,121McCain's next brilliant move is to hit Obama on.... CRIME. I think urban crime is waaaaay down the list of national priorities, as most major cities have seen a decline over the last decade.
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b,121Obama has continued today to tick up in polls... most notably registering results of +10 and +12 in Virginia. Virginia!
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b,121At a rally in Florida, according to the Washington Post, Palin started her stuff on Ayers and someone in the crowd yelled "KILL HIM!"
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b,121wow.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121Yeah, watched and I can't believe people would vote for McCain after seeing that.b,121b,121Goes hand in hand with his who deregulation shtick. The end is classic with the Phil Gramm part!b,121b,121b,121b,121a href="http://www.keatingeconomics.com/??" target="_blank"1http://www.keatingeconomics.com/??/a1
b,121people who keep thinking fannie and freddie are the 'root' of the problems on wall street really need to step it up. the only reason right wingers keep bringing up those two companies is bcuz those were the only examples of times when they were asking for more reform - and the reason they wanted reform of those two was because they were the only companies that were publicly owned, which right wingers hated bcuz they were providing low-income ppl w/ access to housing (see the CRA act of 1977) - low income ppl who had a much higher percentage of repayment than the ppl who were flipping condos in san diego and FL in order to make $$$
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b,121fannie and freddie were responsible for sub prime shit also, but the regulation they DID have meant that they weren't nearly as bad as privately owned companies, which was what republicans wanted to turn them into in the first place.
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b,121fannie and freddie did not lend to subprime borrowers.
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b,121source? im reading multiple sources saying otherwise
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b,121i don't know if it never happened, but that just isn't the way that Fannie/Freddie work. the whole subprime market was based on those candidates who couldn't qualify for a traditional freddie/fannie backed mortgage.
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b,121i suppose when they are buying bundles of thousands of mortgages it might get tricky. however, they only got stung when the rates of foreclosure started snowballing for normal borrowers. remember that the housing bubble is what led us to where we are. the subprime borrowers would still be fine if housing prices had continued to rise.
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b,121Right.
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b,121F&F loaned to low income borrowers. But not to people who couldn't qualify. Among the problems listed about was the 2004 SEC increase in leaverage allowed by banks. In the past banks had to have a cash to loan ratio of something like 1:14. The SEC increased it to 1:30. Wa Mu, Wachovia... took full advantage. Wells Fargo, BofA stuck to a more conservative ratio.
font class="post"1b,121b,121Anyone watch 60 mins lastnight?b,121b,121It was the unregulated shadow market of swaps that killed everything and really did damage.b,121b,121
For a great laugh, check out a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Barack_Obama" target="_blank"1Conservapedia's entry for Obama/a1. For bonus laughs, check out the Talk page to see the battle between somewhat-nutty Republicans and batshit-crazy Republicans. For extra bonus laughs in the form of a brain teaser, try to decide which parts of the entry/comments on the Talk page are for real and which ones are spoof.
NPR reports today that both campaigns are going more negative as the election date comes closer and closer.b,121b,121a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95429975" target="_blank"1http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95429975/a1b,121b,121Presidential Campaign Takes Darker Toneb,121b,121by Mara Liassonb,121b,121All Things Considered, October 6, 2008 ?? The presidential race is getting more aggressive, with attack ads and charges flying in both directions. While Sarah Palin says Barack Obama "pals around" with terrorists, the Obama campaign is calling John McCain "erratic" and "out of touch."b,121b,121Monday in Clearwater, Fla., Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the GOP nominee for vice president, spoke for the second time in two days about Obama's relationship with William Ayers. A former leader of the Weather Underground, Ayers planted bombs in the 1960s and says he has no regrets about it.b,121b,121"Barack Obama said Ayers was just someone in the neighborhood," Palin said. "But that's less than truthful. His own top adviser said they were, quote, 'certainly friendly.' In fact, Obama held one of the first meetings of his political career in Bill Ayers' home. And they've worked together on various projects in Chicago."b,121b,121Ayers and Obama did serve on a nonprofit board together, and while it is true that the senator has minimized his relationship with Ayers, it's also true that McCain's presidential campaign exaggerates the connection between the men.b,121b,121Obama is also using guilt-by-association attacks. The Democrat's presidential campaign has run ads tying McCain to Rush Limbaugh, corporate lobbyists and, in a new Web video, to the villain in the savings and loan scandal of the 1980s, Charles Keating.b,121b,121Meanwhile on Monday, McCain introduced an ad called "Dangerous," which asks, "Who is Barack Obama?" and calls him "dishonorable."b,121b,121Obama has attacked his Republican rival for not knowing how to use a computer and for shooting craps with lobbyists. An Obama ad titled "This Year" calls McCain "erratic in crisis" and "out of touch on the economy."b,121b,121The increased negative tone of the campaign is not unexpected or unprecedented, but what was unusual was its advance announcement by McCain aide Greg Strimple in a conference call on Saturday. With the overwhelming focus of voters on the economy and McCain's numbers dropping, Strimple predicted an aggressive final 30 days.b,121b,121"We're looking at turning the page on this financial crisis and getting back to discussing Mr. Obama's liberal, aggressively liberal record, and how he will be too risky for most Americans," Strimple said.b,121b,121It's a truism of politics that voters always say they hate negative attacks, but politicians keep on using them because they claim they work. This year, however, could be different. Voters may be angry enough at Washington to reject anything that doesn't address their No. 1 concern: the economic crisis.b,121b,121"There's plenty of negativity to go around," said Whit Ayres, a Republican pollster.b,121b,121Ayres said currently McCain bears the burden in the race, because Obama has a statistically significant lead ??? that is, his lead is outside the margin of error nationally and in many key battleground states.b,121b,121"Obama is ahead, and the candidate in second place tends to run relatively more negative ads," Ayres said.b,121b,121According to the University of Wisconsin Advertising Project, in mid-September, Obama was running a higher percentage of negative ads. As of Monday, that has changed.b,121b,121Ayres said voters should expect more of this kind of attack because, in his view, Charles Keating and Bill Ayers are fair game, as is Obama's relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.b,121b,121"I think our associations are a window into our values," he said. "If John McCain liked to hang around Ku Klux Klansmen, and if his church had given a lifetime achievement award to the racist David Duke, we would all think those are perfectly legitimate areas of inquiry."b,121b,121Regardless of whether voters agree that certain lines of attack are appropriate, they can expect more negative campaigning in the remaining 28 days of the race.
jesusb,121b,121watching mccain speak right now is disgusting. All he is doing is lying about obama, one after the other. His whole speech is just one obama diss after anotherb,121b,121disgusting
b,121So it sounds like the McCain campaign is finally going to start putting out attack ads, trying to link Obama with William Ayers, former of the Weather Underground even though there's no evidence the two are anything more than acquaintances who happened to serve on two non-profit boards together.
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b,121To say the two "pal around" (as Palin suggested the other day) is political hyperbole but regardless the facts, here's the question: will it work?
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b,121Discuss.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121No because the terrorist in question is a white american male, who committed the acts during the 60/70s era which is now very romanticised, and if people start digging up dirt im sure they will find a whole load of baby boomer politicians, business people and academics with simialr questionable links. If anything it will make Palin and co look dumb, as the economy melts they are nit picking. Maybe the Wright issue would have been better for smear campigning, plus doesnt Palin's family got redneck militia connections?b,121b,121Plus the 'pal-ing' around happened in the mid 80s, a long time after Ayers 'terrorist' activities, most of the WU handed themselves in, did their time and recanted, most have rejoined the establishment...and in the end they as a organisation where a failure in terms of destroying the state at the time, they didnt land any heavy blows that would leave a permanant scar on the peoples psyche...if I remember correctly they never had casualties in their attacks, only ever hit specific targets, never civilians...b,121b,121I guess Obama could always accuse McCain of hanging out with Vietnamese Communist during the 60s....b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" 21
b,121I assume that you've taken a class or two in logic, bloke. This guilt-by-association shit didn't work half a year ago on the American people, and it isn't working now. Check
/a1 now. The trends are really unmistakable, and there is less than a month to go. I'll bet that the tomorrow's volley of polling puts Obama - who currently is polling at 353-185 with no toss-ups - at greater than 6.0 in the overall popular vote.
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b,121All this news should certainly make a proud Patriot like you sick, Dolo. If only you would stoop down to our level and take part in our elections so your voice would actually count. For shame.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121This is not a matter of guilt by association. Ayres and obama have an intimate working relationship that stretches over 10 years and ayres was instrumental in obama's early career. Doesnt the fact that obama has repeatedly lied about the nature of their relationship peak your interest at all?b,121b,121Even if you truely belief ayres is an irrelevance why has there been no media interest in what obama did as chairman of his board? this is a board which had a budget of over 100 million dollars and represents just about the only instance of executive experience in obama's career. Why do we know everything about palin's performance from a beauty pagent contestant, to a small town mayor and then governor yet almost nothing about obama's early career, even when it is obviously relevant as his time as chairmen of this board are?
b,121This is not a matter of guilt by association. Ayres and obama have an intimate working relationship that stretches over 10 years and ayres was instrumental in obama's early career. Doesnt the fact that obama has repeatedly lied about the nature of their relationship peak your interest at all?
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font class="post"1b,121b,121This is simply not true. If you choose to believe these exaggerations and gross mischaracterizations of the facts, you've pretty much proven yourself to be a either a dupe or a shill with no interest other than warping the debate in the interest of maintaining a diseased status quo.
b,121OG Obama smear merchant, Jerome Corsi, detained in Kenya. Evidently he didn't have a work permit and Kenyan's consider Barack Obama a favored son. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
font class="post"1b,121b,121Cue a million blog comments about "obama's thugs".....
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
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b,121This is not a matter of guilt by association. Ayres and obama have an intimate working relationship that stretches over 10 years and ayres was instrumental in obama's early career. Doesnt the fact that obama has repeatedly lied about the nature of their relationship peak your interest at all?
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b,121This is simply not true. If you choose to believe these exaggerations and gross mischaracterizations of the facts, you've pretty much proven yourself to be a either a dupe or a shill with no interest other than warping the debate in the interest of maintaining a diseased status quo.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121You do realize that this has been the response anytime anyone questions anything about Obama. According to his disciples, Obama is beyond perfect and anything that ever comes close to arising suspision about him is nothing short of a bold-faced lie devised by subhumans who deserve to rot in hell just for even attempting to scrutinize an untouchable such as Barry. b,121b,121Seriosuly, y'all are scary with a capital D.
On a related note, I think I'm going to cop one of these:b,121b,121img src="http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/Great_Blue_Hills/71391.jpg"1b,121b,121"This likeness of the senator from Illinois???dressed in a dap grey suit with his best Democrat blue tie???measures about 6.5" tall and says "Yes we can!" whenever his head bobbles."b,121b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/green30sv.gif" alt="" 21
b,121This is not a matter of guilt by association. Ayres and obama have an intimate working relationship that stretches over 10 years and ayres was instrumental in obama's early career. Doesnt the fact that obama has repeatedly lied about the nature of their relationship peak your interest at all?
/b1
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b,121This is simply not true. If you choose to believe these exaggerations and gross mischaracterizations of the facts, you've pretty much proven yourself to be a either a dupe or a shill with no interest other than warping the debate in the interest of maintaining a diseased status quo.
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b,121You do realize that this has been the response anytime anyone questions anything about Obama. According to his disciples, Obama is beyond perfect and anything that ever comes close to arising suspision about him is nothing short of a bold-faced lie devised by subhumans who deserve to rot in hell just for even attempting to scrutinize an untouchable such as Barry.
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b,121Seriosuly, y'all are scary with a capital D.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Plenty of people here have had plenty of ACTUAL criticisms of Obama, Robert. But in your head, anyone voting for him is a mindless disciple. Sorry that he pissed in your cheerios and broke your heart, but for most people he is simply the politician whom they will be voting for this November, not someone they want to take them to the Prom. But clearly for you the dissapointment cut you to the bone. I am sorry you are so soft, brother.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
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b,121This is not a matter of guilt by association. Ayres and obama have an intimate working relationship that stretches over 10 years and ayres was instrumental in obama's early career. Doesnt the fact that obama has repeatedly lied about the nature of their relationship peak your interest at all?
/b1
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b,121This is simply not true. If you choose to believe these exaggerations and gross mischaracterizations of the facts, you've pretty much proven yourself to be a either a dupe or a shill with no interest other than warping the debate in the interest of maintaining a diseased status quo.
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b,121You do realize that this has been the response anytime anyone questions anything about Obama. According to his disciples, Obama is beyond perfect and anything that ever comes close to arising suspision about him is nothing short of a bold-faced lie devised by subhumans who deserve to rot in hell just for even attempting to scrutinize an untouchable such as Barry.
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b,121Seriosuly, y'all are scary with a capital D.
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b,121Plenty of people here have had plenty of ACTUAL criticisms of Obama, Robert. But in your head, anyone voting for him is a mindless disciple. Sorry that he pissed in your cheerios and broke your heart, but for most people he is simply the politician whom they will be voting for this November, not someone they want to take them to the Prom. But clearly for you the dissapointment cut you to the bone. I am sorry you are so soft, brother.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121I just hope that when you vote you aren't disappointed when the sky doesn't part and God doesn't reach down to give you a loving pat on the back.
You're delusional, man. I mean, I can't even devote energy to this, but it's really sad that you're "there" man since that's what you assume what we think and feel.
b,121This is not a matter of guilt by association. Ayres and obama have an intimate working relationship that stretches over 10 years and ayres was instrumental in obama's early career. Doesnt the fact that obama has repeatedly lied about the nature of their relationship peak your interest at all?
/b1
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b,121This is simply not true. If you choose to believe these exaggerations and gross mischaracterizations of the facts, you've pretty much proven yourself to be a either a dupe or a shill with no interest other than warping the debate in the interest of maintaining a diseased status quo.
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b,121You do realize that this has been the response anytime anyone questions anything about Obama. According to his disciples, Obama is beyond perfect and anything that ever comes close to arising suspision about him is nothing short of a bold-faced lie devised by subhumans who deserve to rot in hell just for even attempting to scrutinize an untouchable such as Barry.
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b,121Seriosuly, y'all are scary with a capital D.
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b,121Plenty of people here have had plenty of ACTUAL criticisms of Obama, Robert. But in your head, anyone voting for him is a mindless disciple. Sorry that he pissed in your cheerios and broke your heart, but for most people he is simply the politician whom they will be voting for this November, not someone they want to take them to the Prom. But clearly for you the dissapointment cut you to the bone. I am sorry you are so soft, brother.
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b,121I just hope that when you vote you aren't disappointed when the sky doesn't part and God doesn't reach down to give you a loving pat on the back.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121Do you mean that Obama isn't going to sprout wings and sprinkle magic wonderfullness dust on the faithful?
b,121This is not a matter of guilt by association. Ayres and obama have an intimate working relationship that stretches over 10 years and ayres was instrumental in obama's early career. Doesnt the fact that obama has repeatedly lied about the nature of their relationship peak your interest at all?
/b1
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b,121This is simply not true. If you choose to believe these exaggerations and gross mischaracterizations of the facts, you've pretty much proven yourself to be a either a dupe or a shill with no interest other than warping the debate in the interest of maintaining a diseased status quo.
b,121
b,121
h,121
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b,121You do realize that this has been the response anytime anyone questions anything about Obama. According to his disciples, Obama is beyond perfect and anything that ever comes close to arising suspision about him is nothing short of a bold-faced lie devised by subhumans who deserve to rot in hell just for even attempting to scrutinize an untouchable such as Barry.
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b,121Seriosuly, y'all are scary with a capital D.
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b,121Plenty of people here have had plenty of ACTUAL criticisms of Obama, Robert. But in your head, anyone voting for him is a mindless disciple. Sorry that he pissed in your cheerios and broke your heart, but for most people he is simply the politician whom they will be voting for this November, not someone they want to take them to the Prom. But clearly for you the dissapointment cut you to the bone. I am sorry you are so soft, brother.
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b,121I just hope that when you vote you aren't disappointed when the sky doesn't part and God doesn't reach down to give you a loving pat on the back.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Yeah, cuz that's what happens any time I vote. I put so much trust and faith in government and elected officials it's "scary". You better run along, there are more people out in your community who need to be convinced that thier vote makes no difference in their lives. Hurry, I think I heard someone discussing the historical importance of this election! You better go set them straight! Make sure they know that your opinion trumps their small hopes!
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
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b,121You're delusional, man. I mean, I can't even devote energy to this, but it's really sad that you're "there" man since that's what you assume what we think and feel.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121You're voting for further evil, and deep down somewhere you know it...no assumptions necessary.
b,121You're delusional, man. I mean, I can't even devote energy to this, but it's really sad that you're "there" man since that's what you assume what we think and feel.
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b,121You're voting for further evil, and deep down somewhere you know it...no assumptions necessary.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121LOLb,121b,121Won't someone PLEASE think of the children?!?
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