I'm looking for a house right now. They said its a buyers market.b,121b,121We saw a house that was on the market for 1 day. we loved it and it was in our price range, but by the time we got home somebody else had already made an offer on it. housing slump my ass.
b,121I'm looking for a house right now. They said its a buyers market.
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b,121We saw a house that was on the market for 1 day. we loved it and it was in our price range, but by the time we got home somebody else had already made an offer on it. housing slump my ass.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Dude, it's not like EVERY market everywhere is a buyer's markets. b,121b,121Don't sweat getting a bid in. Sweat GETTING A MORTGAGE. img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/oof.gif" alt="" /1
font class="post"1b,121b,121Indeed - I do not think many people understood what was about to happen, and will now happen.b,121b,121Imagine if banks start calling debts in - consumer debt, student loans, small business credit, mortgages...b,121b,121Folls chose to see this in terms of "my money helping wall street" and we're going to pay for that oversimplification. We've got a devalued currency, a disfunctional government, and now our credit rating is going to tank... welcome to the new world order America!
b,121Anyone care to explain what all this means (or could potentially mean) in layman's terms?
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font class="post"1b,121b,121The USA is in a lot of debt. A LOT. Which was cool, until a major source of capital vanished when the housing bubble burst. Banks that are holding all the bad mortgages, bad consumer debt, defaulted loans, and so on are going under because they do not have enough money to survive (for instance, when Lehman Brothers went down, people got the willies about Washington Mutual among others and made a run on significant cash, in the millions. That affected Wamu's ability to stay solvent). So now, our financial system is DRY but the debts are still DUE. Hence, banks are not lending, debts are going to be called upon, and there will be huge ripples throughout the economy from a lack of capital in the system (our system is more or less based on credit... so when there's no credit, companies can't pay their employees, can't pay their bills, and it creates a domino effect).b,121b,121The bailout was supposed to inject money into the system - as a loan from the taxpayers more or less.b,121b,121People opposed to the bailout believe that banks should fail, the economy should tank, and we should rebuild a "better" system from the ground up. Basically, burn it down and start over. However that totally depends on what you believe "better" means, for instance people on the left think a more equitable system should be built after the terrible tycoons have been punished, whereas people on the far right believe that it should be left to its own devices to create an even more streamlined/stable/potentially ruthless financial system.b,121b,121People for the bailout generally will acknowledge that things have to change but currently do not want the entire economy to fall apart in the process.b,121b,121At least, that's my layman's take.
b,12156 billion = health care for 16 million people
b,12156 billion = 58 million homes w/renewable electricity
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b,121Kick me if I'm wrong, but isn't that called socialism?
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Sure. So what?b,121b,121Public education is socialized in most industrialized countries - anyone want to take issue with that? We socialize so many things - no one calls it socialism until they want to bash it.
b,121Anyone care to explain what all this means (or could potentially mean) in layman's terms?
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b,121The USA is in a lot of debt. A LOT. Which was cool, until a major source of capital vanished when the housing bubble burst. Banks that are holding all the bad mortgages, bad consumer debt, defaulted loans, and so on are going under because they do not have enough money to survive (for instance, when Lehman Brothers went down, people got the willies about Washington Mutual among others and made a run on significant cash, in the millions. That affected Wamu's ability to stay solvent). So now, our financial system is DRY but the debts are still DUE. Hence, banks are not lending, debts are going to be called upon, and there will be huge ripples throughout the economy from a lack of capital in the system (our system is more or less based on credit... so when there's no credit, companies can't pay their employees, can't pay their bills, and it creates a domino effect).
b,121
b,121The bailout was supposed to inject money into the system - as a loan from the taxpayers more or less.
b,121
b,121People opposed to the bailout believe that banks should fail, the economy should tank, and we should rebuild a "better" system from the ground up. Basically, burn it down and start over. However that totally depends on what you believe "better" means, for instance people on the left think a more equitable system should be built after the terrible tycoons have been punished, whereas people on the far right believe that it should be left to its own devices to create an even more streamlined/stable/potentially ruthless financial system.
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b,121People for the bailout generally will acknowledge that things have to change but currently do not want the entire economy to fall apart in the process.
b,121
b,121At least, that's my layman's take.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121In terms of the effects on the "ordinary" American:b,121b,121*no college loansb,121*no mortgagesb,121*no business loansb,121*no car loansb,121*no extension of credit for other consumer purchasesb,121b,121and that's for starters. In the long term, we're talking about the possibility of rising unemployment PLUS stagnant wages.b,121b,121This is "worst case scenario" but these days, it's not just idle talk.
b,121Anyone care to explain what all this means (or could potentially mean) in layman's terms?
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b,121The USA is in a lot of debt. A LOT. Which was cool, until a major source of capital vanished when the housing bubble burst. Banks that are holding all the bad mortgages, bad consumer debt, defaulted loans, and so on are going under because they do not have enough money to survive (for instance, when Lehman Brothers went down, people got the willies about Washington Mutual among others and made a run on significant cash, in the millions. That affected Wamu's ability to stay solvent). So now, our financial system is DRY but the debts are still DUE. Hence, banks are not lending, debts are going to be called upon, and there will be huge ripples throughout the economy from a lack of capital in the system (our system is more or less based on credit... so when there's no credit, companies can't pay their employees, can't pay their bills, and it creates a domino effect).
b,121
b,121The bailout was supposed to inject money into the system - as a loan from the taxpayers more or less.
b,121
b,121People opposed to the bailout believe that banks should fail, the economy should tank, and we should rebuild a "better" system from the ground up. Basically, burn it down and start over. However that totally depends on what you believe "better" means, for instance people on the left think a more equitable system should be built after the terrible tycoons have been punished, whereas people on the far right believe that it should be left to its own devices to create an even more streamlined/stable/potentially ruthless financial system.
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b,121People for the bailout generally will acknowledge that things have to change but currently do not want the entire economy to fall apart in the process.
b,121
b,121At least, that's my layman's take.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Ok, that was easy to understand and cleared up some things. What are we really looking at (worst case scenario)from an average consumer standpoint if this all goes to shit?/s1b,121b,121*edit - I just read Oliver's post
Well something that's getting short shrift is that current debts could be recalled... for instance, if you've got 20k in student loans... a 5k credit card bill... a 10k car note... imagine being given 30 days to cough it up.
b,12156 billion = health care for 16 million people
b,12156 billion = 58 million homes w/renewable electricity
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b,121
b,121Kick me if I'm wrong, but isn't that called socialism?
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b,121Sure. So what?
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b,121Public education is socialized in most industrialized countries - anyone want to take issue with that? We socialize so many things - no one calls it socialism until they want to bash it.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121The government nationalizing banks, insurance companies, etc. would arguably be more socialistic than investing in solar panels.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
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b,121People for the bailout generally will acknowledge that things have to change but currently do not want the entire economy to fall apart in the process.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121This is kind of my position on it. Much as I believe that free marketeers need to take away a lot of hard lessons from all this, I think it's messed up to see people voting against it on a point of ideological principle, whether it be for reasons such as those outlined a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=235" target="_blank"1here/a1, or because people on the other side of the political spectrum are still refusing to accept that the "trickle-down" part of "trickle-down economics" doesn't actually work.b,121b,121Speaking of voting against the bailout, I found it hilarious to hear some people suggesting that the reason so many Republicans voted against it was because Nancy Pelosi's speech before the vote was too critical of the Bush Administration. f*cking big babies. What next? "Keep politics out of politics"?
Not to pile on the negativity but FDIC release a list of 107 banks that are on the edge of oblivion here in the US. So, get ready for a bumpy week.b,121b,121Oh, due to Rosh Hashanah (Jewish new year to you gentiles) and some procedural issues, congress is in recess until Thursday so the market gets to stew for a few days. Figure a couple of days beyond that to put together a new piece of legislation...b,121b,121Fun times folks, fun times.
Yeah I mean michael moore is not in a position where he's going to be affected beyond his stock holdings. that kind of commentary is pretty rich (pun intended).b,121b,121I'll have some better info after I meet with some folks on Friday but my feeling is the public is being sold down the river on this. Being told the bailout is "a free ride for fat cats" while their retirement plans dissolve.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
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b,12156 billion = health care for 16 million people
b,12156 billion = 58 million homes w/renewable electricity
b,121
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font class="post"1
b,121
b,121Kick me if I'm wrong, but isn't that called socialism?
b,121
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font class="post"1
b,121
b,121Sure. So what?
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b,121Public education is socialized in most industrialized countries - anyone want to take issue with that? We socialize so many things - no one calls it socialism until they want to bash it.
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b,121The government nationalizing banks, insurance companies, etc. would arguably be more socialistic than investing in solar panels.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Sure, if the US was a worker's state, which it isn't. That said, the irony of the US government resorting to quasi-Marxist solutions to the financial crisis isn't lost on this pinko.
b,121Well something that's getting short shrift is that current debts could be recalled... for instance, if you've got 20k in student loans... a 5k credit card bill... a 10k car note... imagine being given 30 days to cough it up.
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font class="post"1b,121b,121For real - can you even imagine? b,121b,121Upside: get into the repo business. img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/balla-22.gif" alt="" /1
b,121Speaking of voting against the bailout, I found it hilarious to hear some people suggesting that the reason so many Republicans voted against it was because Nancy Pelosi's speech before the vote was too critical of the Bush Administration. f*cking big babies. What next? "Keep politics out of politics"?
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font class="post"1b,121b,121Seriously. It's unbelievably img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waaambulance.gif" alt="" /1
ok, for real.b,121on a personal level, should we be taking any precautionary measures? take money out the bank, invest in chinese curency, stockpile weapons and canned food, etc.b,121b,121b,121and i really appreciate the layman explanations and general discussion. REALSTRUT2008
Comments
What are we really looking at (worst case scenario)from an average consumer standpoint if this all goes to shit?/s1b,121b,121*edit - I just read Oliver's post