Knee jerk reactions! It's like fox news up in this biatch.
I don't agree with the lifestyles of 90% of americans. So this whole "the government knows best" mentality is a dangerous way to run a country. If i had my way, i would take everyones car away, force them to smoke spliffs and eat mangos all day. Abuse of women/children would be an offense punishable by death. Bet you lots of people would have a problem with that.
I defiitely do not trust the judgement of a government who has... tested chemical warfare on their own citizens sterilized female prisoners put all asian americans into concentration camps institutionalized slavery (white house lincoln memorial....) funded genocidal dictators around the globe
to be making moral and lifestyle decisions for me.
If they really give a fuck about kids, stop bombing the fuck out of them for a start.
Lots of things in this country were formerly commonplace. It never made them right, though.
What, you ain't down with witch burning?
Next thing you'll be telling me slavery is wrong. GTFOOHWTBS.
The only problem with this line of reasoning, is that the flip is also true. A lot of things that used to be shameful/forbidden/illegal/under the table, are now commonplace and not considered 'wrong' by a large majority (ie. homosexuality, co-habitation, casual sexual relationships, single parent families,etc.). So I don't really think this is the path to waltz down glibly (Thank you, Tom Cruise).
I too am more ultimately opposed to the government assumption that THE GOVERNMENT are inherently more equipped to do better for these children, so taking them out should be the obvious solution. This is definely a case of Rock vs. Hard Place. Those kids get caught in the middle. You may convince me that many of these kids are abused, but I am skeptical that ALL are. Because I have yet to hear a specific charge levelled regarding a specific child/teen, maybe they will, but all I am hearing are accusations being applied over a lot of people quite generally.
I defiitely do not trust the judgement of a government who has... tested chemical warfare on their own citizens sterilized female prisoners put all asian americans into concentration camps institutionalized slavery (white house lincoln memorial....) funded genocidal dictators around the globe
I agree this placed is fucked up! But that Texas compound had to be ten times worse.
I defiitely do not trust the judgement of a government who has... tested chemical warfare on their own citizens sterilized female prisoners put all asian americans into concentration camps institutionalized slavery (white house lincoln memorial....) funded genocidal dictators around the globe
I agree this placed is fucked up! But that Texas compound had to be ten times worse.
Just cuz people dress bad and don't have social skills means they need rescuing by a swat team?
I am calling one in for the next record convention!!!
Lots of things in this country were formerly commonplace. It never made them right, though.
What, you ain't down with witch burning?
Next thing you'll be telling me slavery is wrong. GTFOOHWTBS.
The only problem with this line of reasoning, is that the flip is also true. A lot of things that used to be shameful/forbidden/illegal/under the table, are now commonplace and not considered 'wrong' by a large majority (ie. homosexuality, co-habitation, casual sexual relationships, single parent families,etc.). So I don't really think this is the path to waltz down glibly (Thank you, Tom Cruise).
I'm not quite following you here. My point was merely that citing precedence is not a valid defense of a practice's propriety. Personally, I ride for all manner of liberty, be it homosexuality, co-habitation, casual sexual relationships, single parent families, or polygamy. If that's how you want to get down, and it's not hurting anyone else, it's none of my business.
Lots of things in this country were formerly commonplace. It never made them right, though.
What, you ain't down with witch burning?
Next thing you'll be telling me slavery is wrong. GTFOOHWTBS.
The only problem with this line of reasoning, is that the flip is also true. A lot of things that used to be shameful/forbidden/illegal/under the table, are now commonplace and not considered 'wrong' by a large majority (ie. homosexuality, co-habitation, casual sexual relationships, single parent families,etc.). So I don't really think this is the path to waltz down glibly (Thank you, Tom Cruise).
I'm not quite following you here. My point was merely that citing precedence is not a valid defense of a practice's propriety. Personally, I ride for all manner of liberty, be it homosexuality, co-habitation, casual sexual relationships, single parent families, or polygamy. If that's how you want to get down, and it's not hurting anyone else, it's none of my business.
I guess my point is that there are plenty of people here saying otherwise, that it's just wrong, and the government should put a stop to it (and yes, I know I am oversimplifying). And that when it comes down to it, IMO, either way these kids are in deep. Seems like they have a freakish, poentially and allegedly abusive home life, and on the flip are now en masse in the tender care of the government foster care system and it's local affiliates. Shudders upon shudders. No win.
I think people need to read up more on this topic before going off.
It's one thing to say "hey poligamy ain't that bad." I agree.
But what goes on in this community is that young girls are being forced to marry older men and then start having sex right aways and knocking out kids. It's a horrible abuse cycle. not only that a lot of the younger men are kicked out of the group because they would be competing for wives. They seriously need at least a 5 to 1 woman to man ratio to make this lifestyle work.
This is not as simple as consentual plural marrage. How many women are really willing to put up with this kind of stuff if they have a CHOICE?
The situation in Bountiful, BC is a little complicated due to the fact that no one will step forward and support any allegations of abuse and the law on polygamy in BC is in a gray area right now as it's before the Courts. A lot of the heat on the community there is based on Warren Jeffs' association with Bountiful and that relationship actually makes things more murky as the founder of Bountiful broke from Jeffs. This is just what I know from the news and I am sure there's a lot more to it, nevermind what will never get out to the public.
I see why authorities would need a reason to go in. It is still a depressing thought that leaders and residents who were previously charged with abuse crimes was not enough of a reason to keep tabs on the compound. I would also say this of a home with a mommy and a daddy, 2.5 kids and a dog named Fido.
I don't think the major issue here is polygamy, whatever I might think of it, it's that women and children were/are being abused, brainwashed and forced into a horrible life on a large and highly organized scale.
sure the government isnt perfect, and sure there are many abusive situations outside of this "community," but the likelihood of a child getting abused in the outside world is far lower than within the confines of this religious sect.
its been said, but these kids are stuck. both situations are negative, the answer is which one is less.
I don't think the major issue here is polygamy, whatever I might think of it, it's that women and children were/are being abused, brainwashed and forced into a horrible life on a large and highly organized scale.
I disagree, it's def about the polygamy and the direct abuse that it is entailing. The problem is, the polygamy may be as hard to prove as the abuse. So the things which are illegal, may not be able to be substantiated. And then it will be harder to press other cases that have validity in the future.
I don't think the major issue here is polygamy, whatever I might think of it, it's that women and children were/are being abused, brainwashed and forced into a horrible life on a large and highly organized scale.
I disagree, it's def about the polygamy and the direct abuse that it is entailing. The problem is, the polygamy may be as hard to prove as the abuse. So the things which are illegal, may not be able to be substantiated. And then it will be harder to press other cases that have validity in the future.
I guess I should have been more clear, I don't think polygamists worldwide take part in this type of behaviour. But in this context, yes I agree that it is definitely one of the tools of abuse.
Knee jerk reactions! It's like fox news up in this biatch.
No, what you said is fuckin stupid. Do you have a 13 year old daughter? Would you want her to be forcibly married to some 50 year old fuck and then be traded around the community?
"Wives may be taken from one man and reassigned to men that are more worthy"
Hell no for ANY AGE, but especially a child. Wtf is wrong with you?
sure the government isnt perfect, and sure there are many abusive situations outside of this "community," but the likelihood of a child getting abused in the outside world is far lower than within the confines of this religious sect.
its been said, but these kids are stuck. both situations are negative, the answer is which one is less.
I would say that foster care is less negative. Of course, the system has many flaws, but at least it breaks the organized cycle of abuse going on at the FLDS compound. That place was never going to improve, and it would've gone on indefinitely, had no one ever come forward.
Knee jerk reactions! It's like fox news up in this biatch.
No, what you said is fuckin stupid. Do you have a 13 year old daughter? Would you want her to be forcibly married to some 50 year old fuck and then be traded around the community?
"Wives may be taken from one man and reassigned to men that are more worthy"
Hell no for ANY AGE, but especially a child. Wtf is wrong with you?
I have watched multiple documentaries on the man. I am in no way supporting forced marriages of 13 year old girls or the sexual abuse. I also do not have illusions that 13 year old children in the US outside of middle class gated compounds are protected from much of anything. Rape, drugs, prostitution, online predators regardless of how hard their parents may try. Adolescence to me is a myth, socially constructed. These people are living out some crzy religious shit that has been going on since pretty much the beginning of time and busting them will not rid the world of cults.
This situation is Frickin' awful for these girls and the dudes should be killed for what nasty wingbrained assholes, but i am not going to say the 13 year old living down the block from me has it any better.
And no, I have no children, I got a vasectomy. I figure there are plenty of kids (200 and how many were removed?) that could use my care in the world without adding to the populace.
Dude you have a really warped view of the world. In essence your saying that just because its bad outside the compound then theres no point in doing anything for these children?? So what just because bad things happen else where we should just sit back and do nothing. I think history has proved that the way these people live is not a healthy normal enviroment and there is a real threat to these childrens safety as the trial of warren jeffs shows. If your issue is government involment in peoples day to day lives there are way better cases you could ride for than these child abusing pervets.
I have watched multiple documentaries on the man. I am in no way supporting forced marriages of 13 year old girls or the sexual abuse. I also do not have illusions that 13 year old children in the US outside of middle class gated compounds are protected from much of anything. Rape, drugs, prostitution, online predators regardless of how hard their parents may try. Adolescence to me is a myth, socially constructed. These people are living out some crzy religious shit that has been going on since pretty much the beginning of time and busting them will not rid the world of cults.
This situation is Frickin' awful for these girls and the dudes should be killed for what nasty wingbrained assholes, but i am not going to say the 13 year old living down the block from me has it any better.
And no, I have no children, I got a vasectomy. I figure there are plenty of kids (200 and how many were removed?) that could use my care in the world without adding to the populace.
I have watched multiple documentaries on the man. I am in no way supporting forced marriages of 13 year old girls or the sexual abuse. I also do not have illusions that 13 year old children in the US outside of middle class gated compounds are protected from much of anything. Rape, drugs, prostitution, online predators regardless of how hard their parents may try. Adolescence to me is a myth, socially constructed. These people are living out some crzy religious shit that has been going on since pretty much the beginning of time and busting them will not rid the world of cults.
This situation is Frickin' awful for these girls and the dudes should be killed for what nasty wingbrained assholes, but i am not going to say the 13 year old living down the block from me has it any better.
And no, I have no children, I got a vasectomy. I figure there are plenty of kids (200 and how many were removed?) that could use my care in the world without adding to the populace.
Fuck you. Just fuck you.
NixMarie Brown was a beautiful 7 year old girl, who was failed by the Child Protection Services of New York City. Despite numerous reports of abuse made by teachers, school officials, neighbors, and family members, nothing was done and NixMarie was allowed to live in Hell. Her mother and step-father systematically abused, tortured, assaulted, and starved her. All of this abuse continued until the beautiful child was finally beaten to death in the bathtub of her apartment. [/b]
I have watched multiple documentaries on the man. I am in no way supporting forced marriages of 13 year old girls or the sexual abuse. I also do not have illusions that 13 year old children in the US outside of middle class gated compounds are protected from much of anything. Rape, drugs, prostitution, online predators regardless of how hard their parents may try. Adolescence to me is a myth, socially constructed. These people are living out some crzy religious shit that has been going on since pretty much the beginning of time and busting them will not rid the world of cults.
This situation is Frickin' awful for these girls and the dudes should be killed for what nasty wingbrained assholes, but i am not going to say the 13 year old living down the block from me has it any better.
And no, I have no children, I got a vasectomy. I figure there are plenty of kids (200 and how many were removed?) that could use my care in the world without adding to the populace.
Fuck you. Just fuck you.
NixMarie Brown was a beautiful 7 year old girl, who was failed by the Child Protection Services of New York City. Despite numerous reports of abuse made by teachers, school officials, neighbors, and family members, nothing was done and NixMarie was allowed to live in Hell. Her mother and step-father systematically abused, tortured, assaulted, and starved her. All of this abuse continued until the beautiful child was finally beaten to death in the bathtub of her apartment. [/b]
Are you on this asshole's side? What the fuck does this add to the discussion at hand?
I have watched multiple documentaries on the man. I am in no way supporting forced marriages of 13 year old girls or the sexual abuse. I also do not have illusions that 13 year old children in the US outside of middle class gated compounds are protected from much of anything. Rape, drugs, prostitution, online predators regardless of how hard their parents may try. Adolescence to me is a myth, socially constructed. These people are living out some crzy religious shit that has been going on since pretty much the beginning of time and busting them will not rid the world of cults.
This situation is Frickin' awful for these girls and the dudes should be killed for what nasty wingbrained assholes, but i am not going to say the 13 year old living down the block from me has it any better.
And no, I have no children, I got a vasectomy. I figure there are plenty of kids (200 and how many were removed?) that could use my care in the world without adding to the populace.
Fuck you. Just fuck you.
NixMarie Brown was a beautiful 7 year old girl, who was failed by the Child Protection Services of New York City. Despite numerous reports of abuse made by teachers, school officials, neighbors, and family members, nothing was done and NixMarie was allowed to live in Hell. Her mother and step-father systematically abused, tortured, assaulted, and starved her. All of this abuse continued until the beautiful child was finally beaten to death in the bathtub of her apartment. [/b]
Are you on this asshole's side? What the fuck does this add to the discussion at hand?
Im just in awe how you cats jump on your soapbox about this "Cult". What there doing isnt that much different from what goes on in "regular" society. Whether its behind gated compounds, Michael Jackson's Jesus Juiced Summer Camp,Local Day Care Center,etc, why does the hammer come down harder for "Cult" freaks as oppossed to shit down the street. The thread started w/ "look at the creepy folks"......the demonization is at a higher level..IMO.
Im just in awe how you cats jump on your soapbox about this "Cult". What there doing isnt that much different from what goes on in "regular" society. Whether its behind gated compounds, Michael Jackson's Jesus Juiced Summer Camp,Local Day Care Center,etc, why does the hammer come down harder for "Cult" freaks as oppossed to shit down the street. The thread started w/ "look at the creepy folks"......the demonization is at a higher level..IMO.
This is one of the more offensive things I've read on this board.
ON TOPIC: there were some terrible, ghastly events that occurred within the wall of this compound. Like a bed behind the wedding altar. Any attempt to minimize the impact on the 416 children taken from this situation - especially to float a personal vendetta about the government or society - is in poor taste.
Im just in awe how you cats jump on your soapbox about this "Cult". What there doing isnt that much different from what goes on in "regular" society. Whether its behind gated compounds, Michael Jackson's Jesus Juiced Summer Camp,Local Day Care Center,etc, why does the hammer come down harder for "Cult" freaks as oppossed to shit down the street. The thread started w/ "look at the creepy folks"......the demonization is at a higher level..IMO.
This is one of the more offensive things I've read on this board.
ON TOPIC: there were some terrible, ghastly events that occurred within the wall of this compound. Like a bed behind the wedding altar. Any attempt to minimize the impact on the 416 children taken from this situation - especially to float a personal vendetta about the government or society - is in poor taste.
"Like a bed behind the wedding altar."
This sounds like an attempt to apply regular folks logic to an outsider culture.
The crimes are wrong but to highlight their practices as "alien" is suspect to me.
I have been thinking a lot about this thread and feeling pretty shitty about how i made my points and approached this topic. I sincerely apologize to all who I offended and pray for the well being of these children.
What it comes down to is this for me. I hope that we as a society don't use cases such as this to vindicate our guilt over our inaction/disconnectedness in our local communities. I hope that we can use these situations to take a look at issues like child abuse (which is the most egregious act in this case) and where child abuse is taking place.
It is not limited to "crazy cult batches", it is everywhere, all the time. We don't like to talk about it unless it has a nice demon face for the media to place on it (brian peppers anyone? i know he is not a child molester, but i thought this was very relevant to the strut)
When in fact most child molesters were molested themselves and are unable to break the cycle because it is such a shameful thing to talk about in our society.
P.S. I do not nor ever plan to ride for FLDS. If that's what you got from my comments you are not reading.
Comments
And this thing with women voting has gotten totally out of hand. Now there's even a woman running for President!
I don't agree with the lifestyles of 90% of americans. So this whole "the government knows best" mentality is a dangerous way to run a country. If i had my way, i would take everyones car away, force them to smoke spliffs and eat mangos all day. Abuse of women/children would be an offense punishable by death. Bet you lots of people would have a problem with that.
I defiitely do not trust the judgement of a government who has...
tested chemical warfare on their own citizens
sterilized female prisoners
put all asian americans into concentration camps
institutionalized slavery (white house lincoln memorial....)
funded genocidal dictators around the globe
to be making moral and lifestyle decisions for me.
If they really give a fuck about kids, stop bombing the fuck out of them for a start.
Then send them to school.
Fuck this.
The only problem with this line of reasoning, is that the flip is also true. A lot of things that used to be shameful/forbidden/illegal/under the table, are now commonplace and not considered 'wrong' by a large majority (ie. homosexuality, co-habitation, casual sexual relationships, single parent families,etc.). So I don't really think this is the path to waltz down glibly (Thank you, Tom Cruise).
I too am more ultimately opposed to the government assumption that THE GOVERNMENT are inherently more equipped to do better for these children, so taking them out should be the obvious solution. This is definely a case of Rock vs. Hard Place. Those kids get caught in the middle. You may convince me that many of these kids are abused, but I am skeptical that ALL are. Because I have yet to hear a specific charge levelled regarding a specific child/teen, maybe they will, but all I am hearing are accusations being applied over a lot of people quite generally.
I agree this placed is fucked up! But that Texas compound had to be ten times worse.
Just cuz people dress bad and don't have social skills means they need rescuing by a swat team?
I am calling one in for the next record convention!!!
I'm not quite following you here. My point was merely that citing precedence is not a valid defense of a practice's propriety. Personally, I ride for all manner of liberty, be it homosexuality, co-habitation, casual sexual relationships, single parent families, or polygamy. If that's how you want to get down, and it's not hurting anyone else, it's none of my business.
I guess my point is that there are plenty of people here saying otherwise, that it's just wrong, and the government should put a stop to it (and yes, I know I am oversimplifying). And that when it comes down to it, IMO, either way these kids are in deep. Seems like they have a freakish, poentially and allegedly abusive home life, and on the flip are now en masse in the tender care of the government foster care system and it's local affiliates. Shudders upon shudders. No win.
It's one thing to say "hey poligamy ain't that bad." I agree.
But what goes on in this community is that young girls are being forced to marry older men and then start having sex right aways and knocking out kids. It's a horrible abuse cycle. not only that a lot of the younger men are kicked out of the group because they would be competing for wives. They seriously need at least a 5 to 1 woman to man ratio to make this lifestyle work.
This is not as simple as consentual plural marrage. How many women are really willing to put up with this kind of stuff if they have a CHOICE?
I see why authorities would need a reason to go in. It is still a depressing thought that leaders and residents who were previously charged with abuse crimes was not enough of a reason to keep tabs on the compound. I would also say this of a home with a mommy and a daddy, 2.5 kids and a dog named Fido.
I don't think the major issue here is polygamy, whatever I might think of it, it's that women and children were/are being abused, brainwashed and forced into a horrible life on a large and highly organized scale.
its been said, but these kids are stuck. both situations are negative, the answer is which one is less.
I disagree, it's def about the polygamy and the direct abuse that it is entailing. The problem is, the polygamy may be as hard to prove as the abuse. So the things which are illegal, may not be able to be substantiated. And then it will be harder to press other cases that have validity in the future.
I guess I should have been more clear, I don't think polygamists worldwide take part in this type of behaviour. But in this context, yes I agree that it is definitely one of the tools of abuse.
No, what you said is fuckin stupid. Do you have a 13 year old daughter? Would you want her to be forcibly married to some 50 year old fuck and then be traded around the community?
Hell no for ANY AGE, but especially a child. Wtf is wrong with you?
Do you even know what this dude did?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs
Numbers pleez?
I would say that foster care is less negative. Of course, the system has many flaws, but at least it breaks the organized cycle of abuse going on at the FLDS compound. That place was never going to improve, and it would've gone on indefinitely, had no one ever come forward.
I have watched multiple documentaries on the man. I am in no way supporting forced marriages of 13 year old girls or the sexual abuse. I also do not have illusions that 13 year old children in the US outside of middle class gated compounds are protected from much of anything. Rape, drugs, prostitution, online predators regardless of how hard their parents may try. Adolescence to me is a myth, socially constructed. These people are living out some crzy religious shit that has been going on since pretty much the beginning of time and busting them will not rid the world of cults.
This situation is Frickin' awful for these girls and the dudes should be killed for what nasty wingbrained assholes, but i am not going to say the 13 year old living down the block from me has it any better.
And no, I have no children, I got a vasectomy. I figure there are plenty of kids (200 and how many were removed?) that could use my care in the world without adding to the populace.
So what just because bad things happen else where we should just sit back and do nothing. I think history has proved that the way these people live is not a healthy normal enviroment and there is a real threat to these childrens safety as the trial of warren jeffs shows.
If your issue is government involment in peoples day to day lives there are way better cases you could ride for than these child abusing pervets.
Fuck you. Just fuck you.
uber
NixMarie Brown was a beautiful 7 year old girl, who was failed by the Child Protection Services of New York City. Despite numerous reports of abuse made by teachers, school officials, neighbors, and family members, nothing was done and NixMarie was allowed to live in Hell. Her mother and step-father systematically abused, tortured, assaulted, and starved her. All of this abuse continued until the beautiful child was finally beaten to death in the bathtub of her apartment. [/b]
Are you on this asshole's side? What the fuck does this add to the discussion at hand?
Im just in awe how you cats jump on your soapbox about this "Cult". What there doing isnt that much different from what goes on in "regular" society.
Whether its behind gated compounds, Michael Jackson's Jesus Juiced Summer Camp,Local Day Care Center,etc, why does the hammer come down harder for "Cult" freaks as oppossed to shit down the street.
The thread started w/ "look at the creepy folks"......the demonization is at a higher level..IMO.
People are pissed because Nix Marie wasnt taken away. This time they got a complaint, and took all the kids away, to be sure. They aint in Guantanamo.
Whats the problem?
"organized way"?
I dont see how this is "hotter" than "unorganized"?
This is one of the more offensive things I've read on this board.
ON TOPIC: there were some terrible, ghastly events that occurred within the wall of this compound. Like a bed behind the wedding altar. Any attempt to minimize the impact on the 416 children taken from this situation - especially to float a personal vendetta about the government or society - is in poor taste.
"Like a bed behind the wedding altar."
This sounds like an attempt to apply regular folks logic to an outsider culture.
The crimes are wrong but to highlight their practices as "alien" is suspect to me.
What it comes down to is this for me. I hope that we as a society don't use cases such as this to vindicate our guilt over our inaction/disconnectedness in our local communities. I hope that we can use these situations to take a look at issues like child abuse (which is the most egregious act in this case) and where child abuse is taking place.
It is not limited to "crazy cult batches", it is everywhere, all the time. We don't like to talk about it unless it has a nice demon face for the media to place on it (brian peppers anyone? i know he is not a child molester, but i thought this was very relevant to the strut)
When in fact most child molesters were molested themselves and are unable to break the cycle because it is such a shameful thing to talk about in our society.
P.S. I do not nor ever plan to ride for FLDS. If that's what you got from my comments you are not reading.