Back when certain major label titles were catching $30, 60, 100 bucks... they were being tightly controlled by collectors (and dealers) and because classic (but well-known) hip-hop was a popular genre to collect there was a high demand. Without eBay, Gemm, and so on... there was little to instruct anyone that Common Sense "I Used To Love Her" on 12" was not that tough to find.
Now, these titles are no longer in such high demand. Coupled with a glut in supply (DJs selling their shit) and additional ways to obtain the records (internet) the prices have plummeted.
I look at a lot of hip-hop records, and the classic major label releases that used to be worth money are STILL very tough to find in NM condition. This is key. If you want a VG, used, totally playable and enjoyable copy of a certain Gang Starr 12"... well it is out there for you. I recently went through a collection where I saw Tribe Called Quest 12"s marked "G" from a record shop, priced at $15-20! That's a thing of the past. Right now, you can get on eBay and grab sealed copies of these things often times for opening bid. But this will not always be the case.
I will still pay for very clean (EX or NM) classic rap 12"s. Even moderately worn DJ collections are not going to ever be worth anything, but they are great ways to obtain this music at a bargain price.
The canon is in place though - condition is the issue. Some "random rap" has entered it, much will fall by the wayside. At some point this will move from its currently glutted state to something more like soul or jazz LPs, where NM copies of the canon will be worth real money while VG copies will be worth $2.99.
Why is yelp so big w/ west coast asians? They love that shit.
For real.
We represent.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Some of us just happen to shop at some of the same places that you and Chris score your store stock (like at swap meets)...so we know better.
I love that stores like yours and his exist...but they serve more as like museums to me than actual shops. Even here in Austin, I don't find myself spending much money in Friends of Sound (and by my estimation, Dave prices his stock a little lower than you and Chris)...as trades wind up being the only way I'm willing to pay the market prices on FoS records.
Y'all thrive on those who apparently have no other way to obtain records than to pay top dollar for them. There's nothing wrong with that. But such a business plan excludes many of the thrifty record collectors in your area. Again, I understand that that's how y'all need to operate, so it's not your shops itself that I ever take issue with.
It's folks who want to act like spending top dollar in your shops is the equivalent of touching the monolith.
My point is no, it's taking the lazy, impatient, less-bang-for-your-buck route.
Of course there are exceptions to that when it comes to ultra-rare records, but you're also conversing with someone who has not found much truth in the notion that their is a link between rareness and quality.
75% of the records I see in Finds posts on this board (beyond the ones I already have), I would never want to buy for more than a couple of dollars a piece, if at all.
But hey, go right ahead and call me Galveston Island.
I hear what you're saying here but I think the main, very vital difference with the GM has less to do with WHAT is being bought and has more to do with the EXPERIENCE, which is to say, the GM is welcoming place to come, talk about records, swap stories, whatever. I'd say the record buying itself is actually kind of secondary. I mean, if it was about top shelf records at top shelf prices, I'd shop at Atomic every week but I've been there once since I moved to L.A. Whereas everytime I go back to the Bay to visit, I ALWAYS drop by the GM, whether I end up scooping up a stack of records or not.
That kind of institution, that kind of social space is what makes the store, in my opinion, so beloved and why people are getting all huffy at a weak Yelp review.
Yeah, I sorta agree. But when we're talking about soul and jazz and rap and hip-hop oriented records...you wind up with just one dude going into relevant neighborhoods and a hundred dudes who just feed off of his finds. That's all good on one hand as it creates an industry, it employs others, it creates a social space, etc.
But still I'd rather see collectors equally interested in the search as they are in the records themselves. Part of the whole thing is going to areas foreign to you, meeting new people, learning what life is like for the people who originally jammed the records you now want. A record dealer can spin knowledge all day, and that's cool...but if you are really putting so much value on the social aspect of collecting records, plan a trip to Jamaica or Brazil or India. You don't even have to buy any records while you're there. Just know more about what you are listening to...so that your records don't just become what you want them to be, but wind up at least in understanding as more of what they were meant to be.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
The thing about classic hip-hop records is this:
Back when certain major label titles were catching $30, 60, 100 bucks... they were being tightly controlled by collectors (and dealers) and because classic (but well-known) hip-hop was a popular genre to collect there was a high demand. Without eBay, Gemm, and so on... there was little to instruct anyone that Common Sense "I Used To Love Her" on 12" was not that tough to find.
Now, these titles are no longer in such high demand. Coupled with a glut in supply (DJs selling their shit) and additional ways to obtain the records (internet) the prices have plummeted.
I look at a lot of hip-hop records, and the classic major label releases that used to be worth money are STILL very tough to find in NM condition. This is key. If you want a VG, used, totally playable and enjoyable copy of a certain Gang Starr 12"... well it is out there for you. I recently went through a collection where I saw Tribe Called Quest 12"s marked "G" from a record shop, priced at $15-20! That's a thing of the past. Right now, you can get on eBay and grab sealed copies of these things often times for opening bid. But this will not always be the case.
I will still pay for very clean (EX or NM) classic rap 12"s. Even moderately worn DJ collections are not going to ever be worth anything, but they are great ways to obtain this music at a bargain price.
The canon is in place though - condition is the issue. Some "random rap" has entered it, much will fall by the wayside. At some point this will move from its currently glutted state to something more like soul or jazz LPs, where NM copies of the canon will be worth real money while VG copies will be worth $2.99.
At the time that prices for classic hip-hop records went up to $30-$60-$100, didn't you already have most of the classic hip-hop records you wanted? I would imagine you were on the selling end like I was. Not that I had everything by any means, but you want to pay me $30 for a Jungle Brothers single that I definitely like but paid no more than $5 for? Sure, take it...and now I'm closer to my trip to Hawaii. I don't know how much its price has fluctuated over the years, but I have long since replaced that JB's 12" for again, no more than $5.
I had all sorts of PE vinyl, but I didn't have the Shut em Down 12" when it was a $100 record. Was I about to spend $100 to get one? I sure wanted one. But no, I just waited a couple of years and found one for no more than $5. Shortly thereafter, it was no longer a $100 record. But who cares? There was a window there, a lot of us made some good money off of barely even letting crumbs drop from our record stacks...and eventually the window closed. So instead of...I bought it for $5 when it came out, and sold it for $100. It's find one for $1 and sell it for $8. That's still a pretty good profit margin.
Nowadays, it's just other classic hip-hop records that are fetching the high prices...and rightfully so, because they're rare. (Anybody got some Guerilla Maab vinyl for me?) And if you know who to solicit, you can flip those profit margins into the stratosphere. Problem is, most record collectors in the record collector scene that hang out at a place like GM aren't very much interested in those records. Hip-hop to them has to involve samples...it can't be too gritty or too genuinely country. Dudes still argue against the hallowed greatness of 2Pac. Shit is so entirely played...not even having a clue and loving every second of it. People want so badly to live in past decades, where their hindsight can dictate everything that surrounds them.
But still I'd rather see collectors equally interested in the search as they are in the records themselves. Part of the whole thing is going to areas foreign to you, meeting new people, learning what life is like for the people who originally jammed the records you now want. A record dealer can spin knowledge all day, and that's cool...but if you are really putting so much value on the social aspect of collecting records, plan a trip to Jamaica or Brazil or India. You don't even have to buy any records while you're there. Just know more about what you are listening to...so that your records don't just become what you want them to be, but wind up at least in understanding as more of what they were meant to be.
Oh, no doubt. I'm not suggesting the GM should be a proxy for just being out in the world, looking for stuff. I do think it's a nice place to come back to (esp. with some good trades discovered out in said world).
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
But still I'd rather see collectors equally interested in the search as they are in the records themselves. Part of the whole thing is going to areas foreign to you, meeting new people, learning what life is like for the people who originally jammed the records you now want. A record dealer can spin knowledge all day, and that's cool...but if you are really putting so much value on the social aspect of collecting records, plan a trip to Jamaica or Brazil or India. You don't even have to buy any records while you're there. Just know more about what you are listening to...so that your records don't just become what you want them to be, but wind up at least in understanding as more of what they were meant to be.
Oh, no doubt. I'm not suggesting the GM should be a proxy for just being out in the world, looking for stuff. I do think it's a nice place to come back to (esp. with some good trades discovered out in said world).
Yeah, in many ways I wish I could come around to your more healthy way of thinking about it.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
A few years back, I went into Groove Merchant and casually mentioned to Chris that I was looking for a certain record. He said, "I get that in every now and then. I'll keep an eye out for you."
Three days later, I get a voicemail saying, "Hey, got a copy of that record. It's behind the counter for you."
I show up that afternoon and he charges me 8 bucks for it. I was expecting it would $35-40, since I often see it go for that.
You're just not gonna get that kinda service from other stores.
I said something to this effect the last time we had a "big up GM" thread on here, but when I dropped in during a visit to SF a few years back, I was delighted to find things like n/m copies of "My People...Hold On" for $17 and "Stillness" for $14 (this was after being told by a cat round the corner at Open Mind only an hour or so earlier that "Stillness" hardly ever goes for less than $25 when it turns up). Whilst I completely accept that these records may be relatively common Stateside, they tend to be more scarce in the UK, and I'd never seen either for less than ??40 for a long, long time. I have absolutely no problem with GM's pricing policy, and I don't know who it was who quietly and courteously humoured me as I went into a rambling description of this James Brown organ instrumental I was after on 45, the title of which evaded me (it was "Shhhh (For A Little While)" in case you're wondering), but I would have been comprehensively clowned had I tried to do the same thing in certain London spots, so thanks for not contributing to my embarrassment, whoever it was.
Personally I've only heard people rave about Groove Merchant. I don't know about the internet. Some people get all vigilante junior varsity Time Out reporter with this shit. Mostly I'm thinking food boards and Chowhound -- those people can be vicious, and when they're wrong they don't understand they're messing with a restaraunt's business reputation.
It seems like - despite the fact that there are consistently incredible records in shops like GM, Academy, my own Good Records, Big City, etc - people are more dissatisfied than ever.
Paycheck would never ask for this, so I'm going to embarrass him here. GM has like 17 positive Yelp reviews. If any of you do Yelp, can you drop some love here? http://www.yelp.com/biz/good-records-new-york
Hey Harvey Some people will search out a wine specialist to find that special bottle of pinot from a small winery in the south of france. Some people just go to BevMo. At the end of the Day,both these places can get you what you want. Three weeks ago I sold a Chocolate Star EP for $375.It did not go to some hipster clown who had too much spending cash.It went to a waiter who spent a really good weeks worth of tip money on it.He was estatic to get it,went home smoked a joint and was in Disco Heaven. I payed over $200 to offer this in my store.I did not go out in the field and pull it for $2. I just don't feel you get it or ever will.
Some people will search out a wine specialist to find that special bottle of pinot from a small winery in the south of france. Some people just go to BevMo. At the end of the Day,both these places can get you what you want. Three weeks ago I sold a Chocolate Star EP for $375.It did not go to some hipster clown who had too much spending cash.It went to a waiter who spent a really good weeks worth of tip money on it[/b].He was estatic to get it,went home smoked a joint and was in Disco Heaven.
Real talk.
And, not to be a douche here, but Pinot is more East-central. It comes from Burgundy. I feel you though.
You'll leave with good records you didn't know about, and often for a player price.
That's one of the things that makes this place so great. You can ask for recommendations and they'll always come through with some good shit instead of trying to off whatever crap's been lying around the longest. I don't know if this has happened to anyone else, but a couple of times I've been in there it's almost like Chris is watching the kind of records people bring to the sampling station and then will nonchalantly throw a few records on in the store that he thinks that person will be interested in... almost like, "I see you like that, you might like this too..."
I don't make it up there nearly as much as I should.
it's almost like Chris is watching the kind of records people bring to the sampling station and then will nonchalantly throw a few records on in the store that he thinks that person will be interested in... almost like, "I see you like that, you might like this too..."
Chris has sold me countless records like this. It's pretty fuckin' cool.
Three weeks ago I sold a Chocolate Star EP for $375.It did not go to some hipster clown who had too much spending cash..
Personally, given that I've probably spent as much time in that store for someone who didn't actually work there, I have to say the number of archetypical hipsters who frequent the GM is pretty damn tiny. I mean, there are a few dudes you see now and then, but in terms of the big chip money droppers, it's not really the white belt or limited-edition sneaker crowds.
Better asked: has collecting soul or Latin or disco or hip-hop ever been a big hipster or yuppie or nouveau riche thing to do? Most of the folks I've seen shopping at speciality stores - apart from foreign visitors - who throw down big bucks tend to be people who probably should be spending that shit on their rent (ya'll know it's real!) rather than on records but that's the game for you.
Three weeks ago I sold a Chocolate Star EP for $375.It did not go to some hipster clown who had too much spending cash..
Personally, given that I've probably spent as much time in that store for someone who didn't actually work there, I have to say the number of archetypical hipsters who frequent the GM is pretty damn tiny. I mean, there are a few dudes you see now and then, but in terms of the big chip money droppers, it's not really the white belt or limited-edition sneaker crowds.
Better asked: has collecting soul or Latin or disco or hip-hop ever been a big hipster or yuppie or nouveau riche thing to do? Most of the folks I've seen shopping at speciality stores - apart from foreign visitors - who throw down big bucks tend to be people who probably should be spending that shit on their rent (ya'll know it's real!) rather than on records but that's the game for you.
Most of the folks I've seen shopping at speciality stores - apart from foreign visitors - who throw down big bucks tend to be people who probably should be spending that shit on their rent (ya'll know it's real!) rather than on records but that's the game for you[/b]
Comments
Back when certain major label titles were catching $30, 60, 100 bucks... they were being tightly controlled by collectors (and dealers) and because classic (but well-known) hip-hop was a popular genre to collect there was a high demand. Without eBay, Gemm, and so on... there was little to instruct anyone that Common Sense "I Used To Love Her" on 12" was not that tough to find.
Now, these titles are no longer in such high demand. Coupled with a glut in supply (DJs selling their shit) and additional ways to obtain the records (internet) the prices have plummeted.
I look at a lot of hip-hop records, and the classic major label releases that used to be worth money are STILL very tough to find in NM condition. This is key. If you want a VG, used, totally playable and enjoyable copy of a certain Gang Starr 12"... well it is out there for you. I recently went through a collection where I saw Tribe Called Quest 12"s marked "G" from a record shop, priced at $15-20! That's a thing of the past. Right now, you can get on eBay and grab sealed copies of these things often times for opening bid. But this will not always be the case.
I will still pay for very clean (EX or NM) classic rap 12"s. Even moderately worn DJ collections are not going to ever be worth anything, but they are great ways to obtain this music at a bargain price.
The canon is in place though - condition is the issue. Some "random rap" has entered it, much will fall by the wayside. At some point this will move from its currently glutted state to something more like soul or jazz LPs, where NM copies of the canon will be worth real money while VG copies will be worth $2.99.
For real.
We represent.
Yeah, I sorta agree. But when we're talking about soul and jazz and rap and hip-hop oriented records...you wind up with just one dude going into relevant neighborhoods and a hundred dudes who just feed off of his finds. That's all good on one hand as it creates an industry, it employs others, it creates a social space, etc.
But still I'd rather see collectors equally interested in the search as they are in the records themselves. Part of the whole thing is going to areas foreign to you, meeting new people, learning what life is like for the people who originally jammed the records you now want. A record dealer can spin knowledge all day, and that's cool...but if you are really putting so much value on the social aspect of collecting records, plan a trip to Jamaica or Brazil or India. You don't even have to buy any records while you're there. Just know more about what you are listening to...so that your records don't just become what you want them to be, but wind up at least in understanding as more of what they were meant to be.
At the time that prices for classic hip-hop records went up to $30-$60-$100, didn't you already have most of the classic hip-hop records you wanted? I would imagine you were on the selling end like I was. Not that I had everything by any means, but you want to pay me $30 for a Jungle Brothers single that I definitely like but paid no more than $5 for? Sure, take it...and now I'm closer to my trip to Hawaii. I don't know how much its price has fluctuated over the years, but I have long since replaced that JB's 12" for again, no more than $5.
I had all sorts of PE vinyl, but I didn't have the Shut em Down 12" when it was a $100 record. Was I about to spend $100 to get one? I sure wanted one. But no, I just waited a couple of years and found one for no more than $5. Shortly thereafter, it was no longer a $100 record. But who cares? There was a window there, a lot of us made some good money off of barely even letting crumbs drop from our record stacks...and eventually the window closed. So instead of...I bought it for $5 when it came out, and sold it for $100. It's find one for $1 and sell it for $8. That's still a pretty good profit margin.
Nowadays, it's just other classic hip-hop records that are fetching the high prices...and rightfully so, because they're rare. (Anybody got some Guerilla Maab vinyl for me?) And if you know who to solicit, you can flip those profit margins into the stratosphere. Problem is, most record collectors in the record collector scene that hang out at a place like GM aren't very much interested in those records. Hip-hop to them has to involve samples...it can't be too gritty or too genuinely country. Dudes still argue against the hallowed greatness of 2Pac. Shit is so entirely played...not even having a clue and loving every second of it. People want so badly to live in past decades, where their hindsight can dictate everything that surrounds them.
Okay, I'll stop there.
Oh, no doubt. I'm not suggesting the GM should be a proxy for just being out in the world, looking for stuff. I do think it's a nice place to come back to (esp. with some good trades discovered out in said world).
Yeah, in many ways I wish I could come around to your more healthy way of thinking about it.
I said something to this effect the last time we had a "big up GM" thread on here, but when I dropped in during a visit to SF a few years back, I was delighted to find things like n/m copies of "My People...Hold On" for $17 and "Stillness" for $14 (this was after being told by a cat round the corner at Open Mind only an hour or so earlier that "Stillness" hardly ever goes for less than $25 when it turns up). Whilst I completely accept that these records may be relatively common Stateside, they tend to be more scarce in the UK, and I'd never seen either for less than ??40 for a long, long time. I have absolutely no problem with GM's pricing policy, and I don't know who it was who quietly and courteously humoured me as I went into a rambling description of this James Brown organ instrumental I was after on 45, the title of which evaded me (it was "Shhhh (For A Little While)" in case you're wondering), but I would have been comprehensively clowned had I tried to do the same thing in certain London spots, so thanks for not contributing to my embarrassment, whoever it was.
And I've met a lot.
Paycheck would never ask for this, so I'm going to embarrass him here. GM has like 17 positive Yelp reviews. If any of you do Yelp, can you drop some love here? http://www.yelp.com/biz/good-records-new-york
Some people will search out a wine specialist to find that special bottle of pinot from a small winery in the south of france.
Some people just go to BevMo.
At the end of the Day,both these places can get you what you want.
Three weeks ago I sold a Chocolate Star EP for $375.It did not go to some hipster clown who had too much spending cash.It went to a waiter who spent a really good weeks worth of tip money on it.He was estatic to get it,went home smoked a joint and was in Disco Heaven.
I payed over $200 to offer this in my store.I did not go out in the field and pull it for $2.
I just don't feel you get it or ever will.
no I never sent a used condom.
I did however send someone an unopened trojan.
If anything, it should be considered a mitzvah
Real talk.
And, not to be a douche here, but Pinot is more East-central. It comes from Burgundy. I feel you though.
That's one of the things that makes this place so great. You can ask for recommendations and they'll always come through with some good shit instead of trying to off whatever crap's been lying around the longest. I don't know if this has happened to anyone else, but a couple of times I've been in there it's almost like Chris is watching the kind of records people bring to the sampling station and then will nonchalantly throw a few records on in the store that he thinks that person will be interested in... almost like, "I see you like that, you might like this too..."
I don't make it up there nearly as much as I should.
Chris has sold me countless records like this. It's pretty fuckin' cool.
Personally, given that I've probably spent as much time in that store for someone who didn't actually work there, I have to say the number of archetypical hipsters who frequent the GM is pretty damn tiny. I mean, there are a few dudes you see now and then, but in terms of the big chip money droppers, it's not really the white belt or limited-edition sneaker crowds.
Better asked: has collecting soul or Latin or disco or hip-hop ever been a big hipster or yuppie or nouveau riche thing to do? Most of the folks I've seen shopping at speciality stores - apart from foreign visitors - who throw down big bucks tend to be people who probably should be spending that shit on their rent (ya'll know it's real!) rather than on records but that's the game for you.
Hey! Stay out of my finances!