little dudes.... seriously,what kinda bugs me about little man is that I was nice enough to put out 1000+ free lp's on the street for the neighborhood,some of which he took,then he finds the time to come home and write a negative review. The one thing the general public does not get about common $5-10 records that I price $15-20 is that I factor in important things like 1st issue, still in the shrink, and stone Frickin' mint.If they don't meet that criteria then I mark them down same as Amoeba. I think Amoeba is a great store,and I would never dispute that.We just operate differently. Amoeba pays next to nothing for your records but they generally don't put them out for all that much. It is simple.If you brought in Johnny Hammond "Gears" they would pay you 1-3 dollars max.They would price this out $10 or under.I would pay $15-20 and price out at$35-45. I could go on and on,but mostly the Groove Merchant is a positive hang out and I don't have too many complaints.Come in this weekend and have a beer.
The funny thing is. These are the guys that are always bitching on prices. They are the fools that don't wanna pay a buck for a dollar bin (This shit is not worth a buck. I'll give you .50 cents!!!).
Where is his review talking about ripping off a Good Will by stuffing 2 records into one sleeve. But dissing them because they have a shitty section of funk & Soul raers!
What a joke. If people only understood the sheer amount of heat that has come in and out of that store over the years. Every time I go there are crazy records on the wall and in the crates that I haven't ever heard. The trade policy keeps things constantly flowing. Not to mention that it's really the only place in the Bay where you can consistently buy OG hip-hop 12s for reasonable prices. Or the fact that Chris and Josh are walking encyclopedias of record knowledge.
I don't make it over enough, but I'll be up at the store this weekend.
Staff seems genuinely friendly. but... not everyone is looking for "OG 12" hip hop remixes featuring Kool G Rap nor is everyone checking for "Psyche-Rock-Funk" treats for the sampler that Heirogliphics sampled back in the day. That may be your thing and you may have found your record-haven but their are other genres that people are just as serious about collecting that you won't find at GM. I have been there a few times when up in the Bay and have never pulled a thing from their crates.
That said i still have to prop them on being an independent store with probably the rarest soul, funk, jazz and hip hop records in the bay and not caving in to all the Amoeba giants that surround them. Mom and Pop shops are whats up.
Hold that shit down and don't ever close your doors, dude.
Staff seems genuinely friendly. but... not everyone is looking for "OG 12" hip hop remixes featuring Kool G Rap nor is everyone checking for "Psyche-Rock-Funk" treats for the sampler that Heirogliphics sampled back in the day. That may be your thing and you may have found your record-haven but their are other genres that people are just as serious about collecting that you won't find at GM. I have been there a few times when up in the Bay and have never pulled a thing from their crates.
That said i still have to prop them on being an independent store with probably the rarest soul, funk, jazz and hip hop records in the bay and not caving in to all the Amoeba giants that surround them. Mom and Pop shops are whats up.
Hold that shit down and don't ever close your doors, dude.
Yeah - I don't think the point here is that GM is a one-stop shop for all your collecting needs. I think the point is that what they charge is a reflection of the quality/rarity of what you can buy there. It's not an Amoeba nor is meant to be.
That said, I would add that the store isn't really the "get your samples here!" mecca it might have been in an earlier era, even though, like TSL and A1 and Big City, it still has sections devoted to that. If you're looking for country raers - ok, not your best bet - but for people looking for good Latin? Euro soundtracks? Disco heat? Et. al? You could do worse.
Right, but no record store is going to be able to please everyone, every day of the week. Not even Amoeba (mind you, where you can't listen to records before you buy them, or ask to hear the $200 record on the wall).
I understand the bit about "not everyone wants rare groove". If you want to plow through a ton of 45s Ricardo's is down the street. The common stuff is all at Amoeba and Rasputin. There are specialty jazz shops around the Bay. I can't think of another genre that could sustain a store being open 7 days a week though, so I don't really know what more you could ask for other for there to be less people trying to grip in the Bay Area.
If you ask Chris, even if it's beyond what the GM is typically stocked with, chances are he can give you a hand in finding a copy, or knows where to be checking for one. I don't think many other stores can really say that.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Not to mention that it's really the only place in the Bay where you can consistently buy OG hip-hop 12s for reasonable prices.
Okay, maybe things have changed...because that was not the case 6-8 years ago.
I've always been a I'll-hold-out-until-I-find-it-for-a-couple-of-bucks kind of dude, rather than a do-all-my-legwork-for-me-and-I'll-pay-you-what-the-Japanese-dealers-are-willing-to-pay kind of dude.
And getting taken for the maximum amount does not constitute a big dude to me.
Big dude to me would be more like having patience, finding 2 copies for a buck a piece, and then selling one to a Japanese dealer for 30 times what you paid for it.
Sure, there is some stuff that is rare enough to only warrant high prices in specialty shops. But OG hip-hop 12's should not fall under that category.
GM is the only brick and mortar shop i know of where you're going to see aussie jazz rares, italian soundtracks, and electronic library records under the same roof. oh yeah, did you know they sell rare funk and soul too?
It seems like - despite the fact that there are consistently incredible records in shops like GM, Academy, my own Good Records, Big City, etc - people are more dissatisfied than ever.
I've had people come in and get really frustrated about the situation. "I just can't find anything anywhere" they say.
I don't know what it is, but I go to more record shops than most people just in the course of my job, and I can tell you... you're not finding better selection than shops like Groove Merchant (and others like it).
Some folks are thrifty... what can ya do. But what people like Chris do is a real service. The more prudent among us have just decided to work it on eBay. Considering the sacrifices we all make to keep brick & mortar shops alive... the criticism hits me kind of wrong.
BIG up the remaining record stores who actually have heat on their shelves- Period.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Some of us just happen to shop at some of the same places that you and Chris score your store stock (like at swap meets)...so we know better.
I love that stores like yours and his exist...but they serve more as like museums to me than actual shops. Even here in Austin, I don't find myself spending much money in Friends of Sound (and by my estimation, Dave prices his stock a little lower than you and Chris)...as trades wind up being the only way I'm willing to pay the market prices on FoS records.
Y'all thrive on those who apparently have no other way to obtain records than to pay top dollar for them. There's nothing wrong with that. But such a business plan excludes many of the thrifty record collectors in your area. Again, I understand that that's how y'all need to operate, so it's not your shops itself that I ever take issue with.
It's folks who want to act like spending top dollar in your shops is the equivalent of touching the monolith.
My point is no, it's taking the lazy, impatient, less-bang-for-your-buck route.
Of course there are exceptions to that when it comes to ultra-rare records, but you're also conversing with someone who has not found much truth in the notion that their is a link between rareness and quality.
75% of the records I see in Finds posts on this board (beyond the ones I already have), I would never want to buy for more than a couple of dollars a piece, if at all.
But hey, go right ahead and call me Galveston Island.
A few years back, I went into Groove Merchant and casually mentioned to Chris that I was looking for a certain record. He said, "I get that in every now and then. I'll keep an eye out for you."
Three days later, I get a voicemail saying, "Hey, got a copy of that record. It's behind the counter for you."
I show up that afternoon and he charges me 8 bucks for it. I was expecting it would $35-40, since I often see it go for that.
You're just not gonna get that kinda service from other stores.
Chris is possibly one of the most genuinely nice people I have ever met. His knowledge of music is vast and he is not cocky about it and would never make anyone feel like a little dude. He's got a genuine interest in music and it shows. You can ask him about anything and he'll usually know it and if he doesn't then he'll ask you about it.
I don't buy records every time I go in there. I'm not balling these days, but it's the only store that I go to with the sole intention of saying hi to the owner and shooting the shit. If I find something I'm looking for then it's a bonus. Obviously sales are important, but I think Chris is happy to see friendly faces pop in, with or without a purchase every time. It's one of those stores that I actually want to support and am happy to give my money to. And if Chris isn't there, Vinnie and Josh are great as well.
Groove Merchant is my favorite record store. It takes more than a visit or two to truly appreciate it.
I don't buy records every time I go in there. I'm not balling these days, but it's the only store that I go to with the sole intention of saying hi to the owner and shooting the shit. If I find something I'm looking for then it's a bonus. Obviously sales are important, but I think Chris is happy to see friendly faces pop in, with or without a purchase every time. It's one of those stores that I actually want to support and am happy to give my money to. And if Chris isn't there, Vinnie and Josh are great as well.
Yes, but these simple pleasures cannot begin to compare to the rush of scooping the real finds (yo) from the sidewalk.
Really the only business model that's going to be around in the long run IMO. Don't listen to the cheapskates that can't see value in 20 years of digging knowledge. They'll learn.
And if Chris isn't there, Vinnie and Josh are great as well.
I don't know Josh, but I can cosine on Chris and Vinnie. I've never been to GM (haven't been to San Fran in like 17 years too) but I talked to both guys while working at Groove, and they are both top shelf dudes. So many record store buyers are either wack stoners or self-important pricks. No matter what was up with their order, V and C were always cool as shit. I wasn't even their sales rep, but I used to wish I was.
. But such a business plan excludes many of the thrifty record collectors in your area. Again, I understand that that's how y'all need to operate, so it's not your shops itself that I ever take issue with.
the point is that there are already stores in the area that are designed for thrifty shoppers. Amoeba and Rasputin's are there for the thrifty collector. There are also deals to be had at Groove Merchant. Records at Amoeba and Rasputin's (especially Rasputin's) can be beat to shit. They get priced accordingly. you can find less desirable copies of raers at GM at decent prices and you know what...they probably are nicer than the copy at Rasputin's. GM bargain copy is Rasputin's regular copy.
This is somewhat similar to arguing about the prices at a restaurant. You can get the same items in two spots at different prices, but maybe the taste is a little bit better at one and the environment and work behind it is worth the extra few dollars.
I don't know about Chris or anyone else but I rarely buy records at swap meets. I'd say 80% my stock comes from private collections, and they'd otherwise end up in the junk heap or on eBay.
How is hip-hop selling in your stores these days? I get the impression from my trips to the GM that it's slowed down considerably except for a few select titles or sub-genres.
Some of us just happen to shop at some of the same places that you and Chris score your store stock (like at swap meets)...so we know better.
I love that stores like yours and his exist...but they serve more as like museums to me than actual shops. Even here in Austin, I don't find myself spending much money in Friends of Sound (and by my estimation, Dave prices his stock a little lower than you and Chris)...as trades wind up being the only way I'm willing to pay the market prices on FoS records.
Y'all thrive on those who apparently have no other way to obtain records than to pay top dollar for them. There's nothing wrong with that. But such a business plan excludes many of the thrifty record collectors in your area. Again, I understand that that's how y'all need to operate, so it's not your shops itself that I ever take issue with.
It's folks who want to act like spending top dollar in your shops is the equivalent of touching the monolith.
My point is no, it's taking the lazy, impatient, less-bang-for-your-buck route.
Of course there are exceptions to that when it comes to ultra-rare records, but you're also conversing with someone who has not found much truth in the notion that their is a link between rareness and quality.
75% of the records I see in Finds posts on this board (beyond the ones I already have), I would never want to buy for more than a couple of dollars a piece, if at all.
But hey, go right ahead and call me Galveston Island.
I hear what you're saying here but I think the main, very vital difference with the GM has less to do with WHAT is being bought and has more to do with the EXPERIENCE, which is to say, the GM is welcoming place to come, talk about records, swap stories, whatever. I'd say the record buying itself is actually kind of secondary. I mean, if it was about top shelf records at top shelf prices, I'd shop at Atomic every week but I've been there once since I moved to L.A. Whereas everytime I go back to the Bay to visit, I ALWAYS drop by the GM, whether I end up scooping up a stack of records or not.
That kind of institution, that kind of social space is what makes the store, in my opinion, so beloved and why people are getting all huffy at a weak Yelp review.
How is hip-hop selling in your stores these days? I get the impression from my trips to the GM that it's slowed down considerably except for a few select titles or sub-genres.
O, I think you've got it right. From what I can tell, things have slowed down in that area. This is not just for Chris, but in general. I think the generation that considers that stuff valuable and appreciates it either already has it or has moved on. I saw a similar thing when I worked at Amoeba. I think the bottom fell out in terms of prices and people are more in "buy low" mode.
The more prudent among us have just decided to work it on eBay. Considering the sacrifices we all make to keep brick & mortar shops alive... the criticism hits me kind of wrong.
For sure, people should be thanking their lucky stars shops like this are still open. With ebay and the falling dollar, in ten years you'll have to go to Europe or Japan to cop records, then you will be really bitching and lamenting the lack of stores in general. Talk about pissing into the wind.
How is hip-hop selling in your stores these days? I get the impression from my trips to the GM that it's slowed down considerably except for a few select titles or sub-genres.
It's slowed down huge worldwide. But that's not to say it will always be that way. Everything moves in cycles. The one main point is that (IMO) manufacturing of records will continue to drop greatly. Reissues will be included in that. All the while, records will be destroyed and the ones that are left will (as demand dictates) raise & lower in price.
Are the days gone for getting $30+ for many hip hop 12"? For now yes. But just like collecting in general. Supply & Demand are a continuously revolving flow. I predict that in 2018 there'll be gold in them crates!
Comments
seriously,what kinda bugs me about little man is that I was nice enough to put out 1000+ free lp's on the street for the neighborhood,some of which he took,then he finds the time to come home and write a negative review.
The one thing the general public does not get about common $5-10 records that I price $15-20 is that I factor in important things like 1st issue, still in the shrink, and stone Frickin' mint.If they don't meet that criteria then I mark them down same as Amoeba.
I think Amoeba is a great store,and I would never dispute that.We just operate differently.
Amoeba pays next to nothing for your records but they generally don't put them out for all that much.
It is simple.If you brought in Johnny Hammond "Gears" they would pay you 1-3 dollars max.They would price this out $10 or under.I would pay $15-20 and price out at$35-45.
I could go on and on,but mostly the Groove Merchant is a positive hang out and I don't have too many complaints.Come in this weekend and have a beer.
Where is his review talking about ripping off a Good Will by stuffing 2 records into one sleeve. But dissing them because they have a shitty section of funk & Soul raers!
half a cent? at that price lil dude could empty the dollar bin and have to call other lil dudes to carry it all home.
We are all not ?uestlove, you know?
I don't make it over enough, but I'll be up at the store this weekend.
non certified funk provideur-rltd.
That said i still have to prop them on being an independent store with probably the rarest soul, funk, jazz and hip hop records in the bay and not caving in to all the Amoeba giants that surround them. Mom and Pop shops are whats up.
Hold that shit down and don't ever close your doors, dude.
Yeah - I don't think the point here is that GM is a one-stop shop for all your collecting needs. I think the point is that what they charge is a reflection of the quality/rarity of what you can buy there. It's not an Amoeba nor is meant to be.
That said, I would add that the store isn't really the "get your samples here!" mecca it might have been in an earlier era, even though, like TSL and A1 and Big City, it still has sections devoted to that. If you're looking for country raers - ok, not your best bet - but for people looking for good Latin? Euro soundtracks? Disco heat? Et. al? You could do worse.
I understand the bit about "not everyone wants rare groove". If you want to plow through a ton of 45s Ricardo's is down the street. The common stuff is all at Amoeba and Rasputin. There are specialty jazz shops around the Bay. I can't think of another genre that could sustain a store being open 7 days a week though, so I don't really know what more you could ask for other for there to be less people trying to grip in the Bay Area.
If you ask Chris, even if it's beyond what the GM is typically stocked with, chances are he can give you a hand in finding a copy, or knows where to be checking for one. I don't think many other stores can really say that.
Okay, maybe things have changed...because that was not the case 6-8 years ago.
I've always been a I'll-hold-out-until-I-find-it-for-a-couple-of-bucks kind of dude, rather than a do-all-my-legwork-for-me-and-I'll-pay-you-what-the-Japanese-dealers-are-willing-to-pay kind of dude.
And getting taken for the maximum amount does not constitute a big dude to me.
Big dude to me would be more like having patience, finding 2 copies for a buck a piece, and then selling one to a Japanese dealer for 30 times what you paid for it.
Sure, there is some stuff that is rare enough to only warrant high prices in specialty shops. But OG hip-hop 12's should not fall under that category.
simply the best.
I've had people come in and get really frustrated about the situation. "I just can't find anything anywhere" they say.
I don't know what it is, but I go to more record shops than most people just in the course of my job, and I can tell you... you're not finding better selection than shops like Groove Merchant (and others like it).
Some folks are thrifty... what can ya do. But what people like Chris do is a real service. The more prudent among us have just decided to work it on eBay. Considering the sacrifices we all make to keep brick & mortar shops alive... the criticism hits me kind of wrong.
BIG up the remaining record stores who actually have heat on their shelves- Period.
I love that stores like yours and his exist...but they serve more as like museums to me than actual shops. Even here in Austin, I don't find myself spending much money in Friends of Sound (and by my estimation, Dave prices his stock a little lower than you and Chris)...as trades wind up being the only way I'm willing to pay the market prices on FoS records.
Y'all thrive on those who apparently have no other way to obtain records than to pay top dollar for them. There's nothing wrong with that. But such a business plan excludes many of the thrifty record collectors in your area. Again, I understand that that's how y'all need to operate, so it's not your shops itself that I ever take issue with.
It's folks who want to act like spending top dollar in your shops is the equivalent of touching the monolith.
My point is no, it's taking the lazy, impatient, less-bang-for-your-buck route.
Of course there are exceptions to that when it comes to ultra-rare records, but you're also conversing with someone who has not found much truth in the notion that their is a link between rareness and quality.
75% of the records I see in Finds posts on this board (beyond the ones I already have), I would never want to buy for more than a couple of dollars a piece, if at all.
But hey, go right ahead and call me Galveston Island.
Three days later, I get a voicemail saying, "Hey, got a copy of that record. It's behind the counter for you."
I show up that afternoon and he charges me 8 bucks for it. I was expecting it would $35-40, since I often see it go for that.
You're just not gonna get that kinda service from other stores.
I don't buy records every time I go in there. I'm not balling these days, but it's the only store that I go to with the sole intention of saying hi to the owner and shooting the shit. If I find something I'm looking for then it's a bonus. Obviously sales are important, but I think Chris is happy to see friendly faces pop in, with or without a purchase every time. It's one of those stores that I actually want to support and am happy to give my money to. And if Chris isn't there, Vinnie and Josh are great as well.
Groove Merchant is my favorite record store. It takes more than a visit or two to truly appreciate it.
Yes, but these simple pleasures cannot begin to compare to the rush of scooping the real finds (yo) from the sidewalk.
Exactly. He's so on the level that if you befriend him he's happy to hook you up. he's never been anything but fair to me.
I don't know Josh, but I can cosine on Chris and Vinnie. I've never been to GM (haven't been to San Fran in like 17 years too) but I talked to both guys while working at Groove, and they are both top shelf dudes. So many record store buyers are either wack stoners or self-important pricks. No matter what was up with their order, V and C were always cool as shit. I wasn't even their sales rep, but I used to wish I was.
the point is that there are already stores in the area that are designed for thrifty shoppers. Amoeba and Rasputin's are there for the thrifty collector. There are also deals to be had at Groove Merchant. Records at Amoeba and Rasputin's (especially Rasputin's) can be beat to shit. They get priced accordingly. you can find less desirable copies of raers at GM at decent prices and you know what...they probably are nicer than the copy at Rasputin's. GM bargain copy is Rasputin's regular copy.
This is somewhat similar to arguing about the prices at a restaurant. You can get the same items in two spots at different prices, but maybe the taste is a little bit better at one and the environment and work behind it is worth the extra few dollars.
How is hip-hop selling in your stores these days? I get the impression from my trips to the GM that it's slowed down considerably except for a few select titles or sub-genres.
I hear what you're saying here but I think the main, very vital difference with the GM has less to do with WHAT is being bought and has more to do with the EXPERIENCE, which is to say, the GM is welcoming place to come, talk about records, swap stories, whatever. I'd say the record buying itself is actually kind of secondary. I mean, if it was about top shelf records at top shelf prices, I'd shop at Atomic every week but I've been there once since I moved to L.A. Whereas everytime I go back to the Bay to visit, I ALWAYS drop by the GM, whether I end up scooping up a stack of records or not.
That kind of institution, that kind of social space is what makes the store, in my opinion, so beloved and why people are getting all huffy at a weak Yelp review.
O, I think you've got it right. From what I can tell, things have slowed down in that area. This is not just for Chris, but in general. I think the generation that considers that stuff valuable and appreciates it either already has it or has moved on. I saw a similar thing when I worked at Amoeba. I think the bottom fell out in terms of prices and people are more in "buy low" mode.
For sure, people should be thanking their lucky stars shops like this are still open. With ebay and the falling dollar, in ten years you'll have to go to Europe or Japan to cop records, then you will be really bitching and lamenting the lack of stores in general. Talk about pissing into the wind.
It's slowed down huge worldwide. But that's not to say it will always be that way. Everything moves in cycles. The one main point is that (IMO) manufacturing of records will continue to drop greatly. Reissues will be included in that. All the while, records will be destroyed and the ones that are left will (as demand dictates) raise & lower in price.
Are the days gone for getting $30+ for many hip hop 12"? For now yes. But just like collecting in general. Supply & Demand are a continuously revolving flow. I predict that in 2018 there'll be gold in them crates!