NOLA Housing Crisis: HUD bulldozing projects?

2

  Comments


  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Maybe you think you don't hate them, but your responses on this board to ANY issue involving black people clearly indicate otherwise.

    Would it be too much to ask for you to cut and paste just ONE of these obviously hateful posts?

  • ReynaldoReynaldo 6,054 Posts
    I don't think you hate Black people, Rock.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Maybe you think you don't hate them, but your responses on this board to ANY issue involving black people clearly indicate otherwise.

    Would it be too much to ask for you to cut and paste just ONE of these obviously hateful posts?

    Here ya go...

    Black people have come to love ancient woodsheds, high crime and being isolated in "projects"?


    To dismiss the blatant pride that people have for the place of their upbringing shows that you are only looking at it for its negatives.

    And whether that's subconscious on your part or not, it is definitely hateful.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Maybe you think you don't hate them, but your responses on this board to ANY issue involving black people clearly indicate otherwise.

    Would it be too much to ask for you to cut and paste just ONE of these obviously hateful posts?

    Here ya go...

    Black people have come to love ancient woodsheds, high crime and being isolated in "projects"?


    To dismiss the blatant pride that people have for the place of their upbringing shows that you are only looking at it for its negatives.

    And whether that's subconscious on your part or not, it is definitely hateful.

    Your private mind garden doesn't need weeding...it needs some soil sterilant.

    I stand by the statement that NO human loves living in run down, high crime "projects" and if given the choice NO human would choose to do so.

  • PATXPATX 2,820 Posts
    HUD Secretary Jackson Announces New Direction for Agency
    Overview

    (Mayor Ray Nagin and Governor Kathleen Blanco speak. After pitching his administration's policies in the usual way, Nagin tells a long story in which truth and lie go skinny-dipping; lie steals truth's clothes, and truth chases after. "What you have is truth running naked after well-clothed lie.")

    Ladies and Gentlemen,

    Wow - what a tough act to follow. Nothing like that to make you feel naked.

    I am very sorry that Secretary Jackson was unable to make it here to this session. The decision that was made late last week is so important that he has had to meet with President Bush about it. Secretary Jackson asked me, however, to read this speech on his behalf.

    I'll be happy to speak with any of you afterwards about what the increased budget can mean for you and your business, and about specific contract opportunities of relevance to yourselves.

    Without further ado, then, here is Secretary Jackson's talk.

    Dear Friends,

    It is with great joy that I announce to you today a brand new Department of Housing and Urban Development. Everything is going to change about the way we work, and the change is going to start right here, today, in New Orleans.

    Our charter is to ensure that affordable housing is available for those who need it. This year in New Orleans, I am ashamed to say we have failed.

    For the past year, as various interests have battled it out for this city, we at HUD have often ended up on the wrong side of that battle, forgetting our charter and making decisions that cheat both contractors and ourselves of the chance to make a big difference.

    Today, as Governor Blanco said, we need housing for our workers. Yet until today, we at HUD planned to demolish 5,000 units of perfectly good public housing here in New Orleans, and put commercial housing in its place. Almost all of these apartments have no damage at all, many were on high ground, and their former occupants are by and large begging to move back in and start contributing to their city once again.

    Today, we're going to help them to do that. But that's only the start. With your help, we're not going to destroy much-needed housing, we're going to make it work - for all of us.

    We've got a three-step plan:

    1. The first step is to let these folks go home right now.
    2. Next, we're going to help them create the opportunities they need to thrive.
    3. Finally, with your help, we're going to give back to Mother Nature what she needs to protect this city for all of its citizens.

    All of this is going to require your help to an unprecedented extent, and we are very pleased to announce a contracting budget of 1.8 billion dollars.
    1. LET PEOPLE COME HOME

    More on that in a moment. But first, what on earth made us lock American families out of their homes in the first place?

    "Well, until last week, our M.O. here at HUD was to tear down public housing whenever we could. Like many folks in Washington, we thought that the projects caused crime and unemployment, and we thought that erasing the symptom would get rid of the cause.

    Well, we were wrong.

    Today, with nearly all public housing still boarded up, crime rates are at record highs anyhow. And in any case, employment rates in public housing were pretty much the same as anywhere else in this city. These were real communities, not the crime-ridden hood you see on MTV.

    When we tore down St. Thomas and replaced it with "mixed-income" flats, only 1 out of 27 former residents made it back, and the rest have faced many problems, in some cases even homelessness. It just didn't work."[/b]

    We will not make this error again. This afternoon, we will begin to reopen all housing projects in New Orleans and allow these Americans to be part of their city again.
    2. CREATE OPPORTUNITY

    But opening doors won't be enough. We also need to create the conditions for the enduring prosperity of these communities.

    To do that, we're first going to stop the flow of money out of these communities. You know something's wrong when local earnings of poor folks end up in pockets of Wal-Mart shareholders in Manhattan. I am very pleased to announce that Wal-Mart and three other chains have agreed with HUD to withdraw from areas near low-income New Orleans neighborhoods and to help nurture local businesses to replace them. Legislation under study at state and federal levels will make sure this sticks.

    And money will start flowing in. Starting today, we at HUD will contract directly with public housing residents to remediate apartments and initiate community projects; these measures will invigorate these communities and create new expertise for the long term. We have also budgeted 75 million dollars in training and education incentives for contractors like yourselves to transfer necessary know-how to residents.
    3. PROVIDE BASIC SERVICES

    Now for the big stuff. All of us are here at the Pontchartrain Center today because we want to see New Orleans succeed. But to make that happen, we have a giant challenge before us: to make sure that essential infrastructure is available to everyone.

    Health care, for example. Too many working families end up a burden on the state because some easily curable medical condition has gotten out of hand. No more. In partnership with health departments and the CDC, and with your help, we will insure there is at least one well-equipped public health clinic for every public housing development. We have 180 million dollars to make sure they're the best.

    As for education, Katrina has provided an opportunity to replace government education in favor of private and charter solutions. But why was government education so bad in the first place? It's because government schools - like the City of New Orleans itself - are dependent on local taxes; when an area is underprivileged, its schools have no money. That's why we at HUD are teaming up with the Department of Education to create a national tax base for schools. This will mean an immense amount of contracting work, and we hope that many of you will be bidding. With your help, the prospects of New Orleanians will no longer depend on their birthplace, and the cycle of poverty will come to an end.
    4. FIX THE ENVIRONMENT

    The plans I've laid out so far will establish the groundwork for success of low-income communities. But there's one pesky detail: New Orleans is likely to flood once again.

    It's not just that we keep pumping greenhouse gas into the atmosphere. That's bad of course - but it's beyond HUD's scope. If a large ice shelf slips off Greenland, as it seems to be starting to do, there won't be a few thousand New Orleanians clamoring to get back into undamaged apartments, like today, but rather 300 million refugees whose cities have gone permanently under the sea. An agency mandated to assure affordable housing has to wonder what that would look like.

    But even just another Katrina could bring us back to square one. Fortunately, there is a solution - and here's where we need you like never before.

    As you know, the main reason New Orleans was so vulnerable to Katrina was the destruction of the wetlands - due in large part to the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, built so that oil tankers could get to the ocean more cheaply.

    I am pleased to announce that Exxon and Shell have agreed to finance the rebuilding of the protective wetlands from part of their 60 billion dollars in profits this year.

    As J. Stephen Simon, Exxon Vice President, writes on the Exxon website: "We at ExxonMobil have always intended our business practices to have a positive effect on the world. When this turns out to be not the case, we must do whatever we can to remediate. Today, therefore, ExxonMobil is earmarking 8.6 billion dollars from revenues our company has made in this region to the project of shutting down MRGO and beginning the long process of wetland restoration, so as to assure that ExxonMobil never again has a hand in destroying a large American city."

    Any of you who might be interested in contracts around the MRGO closure program should get in touch with EPA or HUD offices as soon as possible, or give me your business cards at the press conference.

    Ladies and gentlemen: We in America are facing a state of emergency - it's called urban poverty. And with your help, we at HUD are putting our collective mistakes behind us - at least here in New Orleans.

    Together, we will make sure that New Orleans follows in the footsteps of San Francisco, Tokyo, and Chicago, newly protected from dangers it used to face and well on the road to prosperity. But that's not all. We will not rebuild just New Orleans - we will rebuild the American Dream. Many of you here will be crucial for this great endeavor.

    Please come join us at the Lafitte housing complex for a festive ribbon cutting ceremony immediately after the plenary session. We can discuss the work to be done in more detail, and lunch will be served and transportation will be provided. This is what we're all here for, so let's make it happen. Let's Bring New Orleans Back.

    Thank you.

    Thank you very much for listening to Secretary Jackson's words. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have at the press conference following, as well as discuss contract issues.

    We will be proceeding with the ribbon-cutting ceremony at Lafitte right after this session; Secretary Jackson will also try to join us there. We'll be able to discuss contracts in some detail, and to get a hands-on look at what has to happen.

    Transportation will be provided - look for the bus out front, parked in front of the doors. We'll have plenty of food, and we can get you back in time for afternoon sessions. Or if you'd like to take your private vehicle, I have a sheet with directions that I can give you.

    This is what we're all here for, as the secretary said, so please come along.

    http://www.theyesmen.org/en/hijinks/hud

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Maybe you think you don't hate them, but your responses on this board to ANY issue involving black people clearly indicate otherwise.

    Would it be too much to ask for you to cut and paste just ONE of these obviously hateful posts?

    Here ya go...

    Black people have come to love ancient woodsheds, high crime and being isolated in "projects"?


    To dismiss the blatant pride that people have for the place of their upbringing shows that you are only looking at it for its negatives.

    And whether that's subconscious on your part or not, it is definitely hateful.

    Your private mind garden doesn't need weeding...it needs some soil sterilant.

    I stand by the statement that NO human is proud of living in run down, high crime "projects" and if given the choice NO human would choose to do so.

    See, that's where your egocentric asshole comes out. Plenty of people are proud to be from the projects, despite them being run-down and crime-ridden. With all the rappers shouting out the Magnolia Projects in NOLA in very mainstream circles no less, I don't see how you could think otherwise. In fact, that's why Baby of Cash Money was trying to buy Magnolia from the government not too long ago...so that he could help augment the pride already there with structural improvements. No one was talking about moving away, just bettering their long-established, tight-knit COMMUNITY. Seriously, you must have a titanic mental block that makes you think it's your place to step in and say that since YOU could never find pride in living in the projects, then naturally NO ONE else ever could.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Maybe you think you don't hate them, but your responses on this board to ANY issue involving black people clearly indicate otherwise.

    Would it be too much to ask for you to cut and paste just ONE of these obviously hateful posts?

    Here ya go...

    Black people have come to love ancient woodsheds, high crime and being isolated in "projects"?


    To dismiss the blatant pride that people have for the place of their upbringing shows that you are only looking at it for its negatives.

    And whether that's subconscious on your part or not, it is definitely hateful.

    Your private mind garden doesn't need weeding...it needs some soil sterilant.

    I stand by the statement that NO human is proud of living in run down, high crime "projects" and if given the choice NO human would choose to do so.

    See, that's where your egocentric asshole comes out. Plenty of people are proud to be from the projects, despite them being run-down and crime-ridden. With all the rappers shouting out the Magnolia Projects in NOLA in very mainstream circles no less, I don't see how you could think otherwise. In fact, that's why Baby of Cash Money was trying to buy Magnolia from the government not too long ago...so that he could help augment the pride already there with structural improvements. No one was talking about moving away, just bettering their long-established, tight-knit COMMUNITY. Seriously, you must have a titanic mental block that makes you think it's your place to step in and say that since YOU could never find pride in living in the projects, then naturally NO ONE else ever could.

    You're right..."proud" was incorrect...that's why I changed it to the phrase YOU used "loves"....Tell me all about how people LOVE living in high crime, low income "projects".

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    No one was talking about moving away, just bettering their long-established, tight-knit COMMUNITY...pride in living in the projects, then naturally NO ONE else ever could.

    I know it's not about the US, so hardly on anyone's radar, but the article I posted above speaks to this a little.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    BTW Harvey...I spent the first years of my life living in the Vanderveer "Projects" in Brooklyn. The goal and dream of every family that lived there was to get the hell out.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Maybe you think you don't hate them, but your responses on this board to ANY issue involving black people clearly indicate otherwise.

    Would it be too much to ask for you to cut and paste just ONE of these obviously hateful posts?

    Here ya go...

    Black people have come to love ancient woodsheds, high crime and being isolated in "projects"?


    To dismiss the blatant pride that people have for the place of their upbringing shows that you are only looking at it for its negatives.

    And whether that's subconscious on your part or not, it is definitely hateful.

    Your private mind garden doesn't need weeding...it needs some soil sterilant.

    I stand by the statement that NO human is proud of living in run down, high crime "projects" and if given the choice NO human would choose to do so.

    See, that's where your egocentric asshole comes out. Plenty of people are proud to be from the projects, despite them being run-down and crime-ridden. With all the rappers shouting out the Magnolia Projects in NOLA in very mainstream circles no less, I don't see how you could think otherwise. In fact, that's why Baby of Cash Money was trying to buy Magnolia from the government not too long ago...so that he could help augment the pride already there with structural improvements. No one was talking about moving away, just bettering their long-established, tight-knit COMMUNITY. Seriously, you must have a titanic mental block that makes you think it's your place to step in and say that since YOU could never find pride in living in the projects, then naturally NO ONE else ever could.

    You're right..."proud" was incorrect...that's why I changed it to the phrase YOU used "loves"....Tell me all about how people LOVE living in high crime, low income "projects".

    Yes, I could tell you a million times and it would be true in every instance. Plenty of people love living amongst their own people, their own culture, in their own part of town. I could name a friend of mine here in Austin who fits the bill perfectly. He's become somewhat of a community advocate for the 02 Eastside part of town here in Austin, and the Booker T. Projects specifically...and if you listen to what he's prescribing, it is categorically NOT a push to tear anything down. In fact, beyond rcalling for anything material at all...he's calling for assholes like you who do things like play apologist for murderous cops to finally learn how to respect a group of people who are not 100% entirely just like you.

  • No one was talking about moving away, just bettering their long-established, tight-knit COMMUNITY...pride in living in the projects, then naturally NO ONE else ever could.

    I know it's not about the US, so hardly on anyone's radar, but the article I posted above speaks to this a little.


    You should not even bother posting in this thread again it is now a Rock/Harvey cluster fuck.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    BTW Harvey...I spent the first years of my life living in the Vanderveer "Projects" in Brooklyn. The goal and dream of every family that lived there was to get the hell out.

    If that's YOUR experience, then fine...you still can't apply it to EVERY person in the world, especially when they are clearly telling you otherwise.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    No one was talking about moving away, just bettering their long-established, tight-knit COMMUNITY...pride in living in the projects, then naturally NO ONE else ever could.

    I know it's not about the US, so hardly on anyone's radar, but the article I posted above speaks to this a little.


    You should not even bother posting in this thread again it is now a Rock/Harvey cluster fuck.

    Not really...I really appreciate what Bassie posted...I just thought it spoke for itself, so I had no comments to add to it.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Everytime a cop does something wrong you, and others here, rush to condemn ALL cops.

    That would be like me posting everytime a black man commits a crime and stating all black people should be condemned.

    I don't think all cops are murderers and I think most cops are good upstanding people with one of the hardest jobs on earth.......if that makes me an apologist in your eyes, so be it.....you're ignorant..

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    BTW Harvey...I spent the first years of my life living in the Vanderveer "Projects" in Brooklyn. The goal and dream of every family that lived there was to get the hell out.

    If that's YOUR experience, then fine...you still can't apply it to EVERY person in the world, especially when they are clearly telling you otherwise.

    Honestly, you are the only person I have ever met that said "Black people love living in high crime, poverty stricken "Projects".

    And I don't believe you.

    I'm done.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Everytime a cop does something wrong you, and others here, rush to condemn ALL cops.

    That would be like me posting everytime a black man commits a crime and stating all black people should be condemned.

    I don't think all cops are murderers and I think most cops are good upstanding people with one of the hardest jobs on earth.......if that makes me an apologist in your eyes, so be it.....you're ignorant..

    I've only spoken of Austin cops and since we've experienced a consistent string of APD cops killing people of color here under consistently shady auspices, it points to a department-wide definicency in both punishing rogue cops and more importantly preventing rogue cops from committing MURDER in the first place.

    Finally, we have a police chief who has the balls to actually do something about this. And that Olsen piece of shit that he just fired, the one who you jumped up to defend right after the Kevin Brown murder occured, had a well-established history of abuse against people of color.

    So what was your point again?

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    BTW Harvey...I spent the first years of my life living in the Vanderveer "Projects" in Brooklyn. The goal and dream of every family that lived there was to get the hell out.

    If that's YOUR experience, then fine...you still can't apply it to EVERY person in the world, especially when they are clearly telling you otherwise.

    Honestly, you are the only person I have ever met that said "Black people love living in high crime, poverty stricken "Projects".

    And I don't believe you.

    I'm done.

    No, they love living within their own communities...which just so happen to be, in many cases, high crime areas....knowing all the while that the crime can stop at any moment, yet their emotional ties to the land/buildings/neighborhood-derived traditions never will.

    But just keep playing those word games so that you can NEVER see how the way you view this shit is entirely fucked up.

  • GuzzoGuzzo 8,611 Posts
    No, they love living within their own communities...which just so happen to be, in many cases, high crime areas....knowing all the while that the crime can stop at any moment, yet their emotional ties to the land/buildings/neighborhood-derived traditions never will.

    Harvey, once again, uses his expertise in black people and breaks them down for the "less-whites" here on soul strut.

    Thanks Harvey.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    i'd say generally people are against bulldozing their entire communities regardless of how crime-ridden they are

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-schmichcabrini-storygallery,1,1458275.storygallery?coll=chi-site-nav

    really good set of articles in the tribune on the changes at cabrini green

  • phongonephongone 1,652 Posts
    Yo, can we all agree that:

    1) Lots of black folks were driven from their homes (public or otherwise) because of Katrina.

    2) Government is razing black folks' homes, thus black folks have no reason to come back to NOLA.

    3) Instead, government should be making some effort to replace homes or provide some accomodation for folks to move back.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Yo, can we all agree that:
    1) Lots of black folks were driven from their homes (public or otherwise) because of Katrina.

    Or better yet, lots of people were driven from their homes because of years of levee neglect on the part of the Army Corp of Engineers as well as another case of levees purposefully being breached to protect one area at the expense of another.


    2) Government is razing black folks' homes, thus black folks have no reason to come back to NOLA.

    That statement is all sorts of problematic. Many former NOLA residents definitely want to move back but on top of their homes being in disarray or whatnot, the economy in NOLA isn't really all that inviting.

    3) Instead, government should be making some effort to replace homes or provide some accomodation for folks to move back.

    Just don't bulldoze them...that would be a good start.


  • No, they love living within their own communities...which just so happen to be, in many cases, high crime areas....knowing all the while that the crime can stop at any moment, yet their emotional ties to the land/buildings/neighborhood-derived traditions never will.

    But just keep playing those word games so that you can NEVER see how the way you view this shit is entirely fucked up.

    this is only half true. from my experience, they stay living there out of fear. fear of leaving due to peer pressure, and fear of what its like to live in a non-black community. this whole "love" thing is some mythical rap shit most the time.

    and to say that people "love" or "hate" the projects is truly misleading. it has always been a love/hate thing in the projects if u ask me. cant be one or the other.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts

    No, they love living within their own communities...which just so happen to be, in many cases, high crime areas....knowing all the while that the crime can stop at any moment, yet their emotional ties to the land/buildings/neighborhood-derived traditions never will.

    But just keep playing those word games so that you can NEVER see how the way you view this shit is entirely fucked up.

    this is only half true. from my experience, they stay living there out of fear. fear of leaving due to peer pressure, and fear of what its like to live in a non-black community. this whole "love" thing is some mythical rap shit most the time.

    and to say that people "love" or "hate" the projects is truly misleading. it has always been a love/hate thing in the projects if u ask me. cant be one or the other.

    Of course it's a love/hate thing, but the pride remains.

    And I would say that the "fear" that you speak of is well founded...in that if ghetto Joe from Calliope just gets all of a sudden plopped into suburban Houston, he's going to face a whole world of crap that he's not at all used to...let alone that Houston folks probably won't be able to understand half the words he ever says spoken in his usual-and-only-thing-he's-ever-known creole patois.

    And no, loving your project in New Orleans isn't just a rap thing. Same shit in many ways was going on during the jazz era, the r-n-b era, the soul era, the funk era...as well it's a Mardi Gras Indian thing which goes all the way back to slavery days. People in NOLA share a culture unique from anything else in America, so one MUST consider just that when assessing the situation there. You might think it's just like what you experienced in Brooklyn 40 years ago, or what you saw in LA 15 years ago...but it's certainly not the same thing AT ALL.

  • Yo, can we all agree that:

    1) Lots of black folks were driven from their homes (public or otherwise) because of Katrina.

    2) Government is razing black folks' homes, thus black folks have no reason to come back to NOLA.

    3) Instead, government should be making some effort to replace homes or provide some accomodation for folks to move back.

    The problem is that the people driven from their homes have no legal claim to their so-called home because their home has been wiped from the face of the earth. They were not unwillingly displaced.

    I realize there could likely be some shadiness on the part of city leaders when it comes to reopening the buildings, but now is the time to fix the problems. Do you go back to the old ways by refurbishing and reopening some of the deadliest projects on the planet, the days of New Orleans being the murder capital of the nation, or do you put an end to those days? Seems to me an obvious choice.

    Regardless of that choice, the city leaders at least need to show better effort at reincorporating their displaced, law-abiding citizens of low-income means. But rebuilding unhealthy communities where social miscreants can fit snuggly back into the fold? Again, seems to me an obvious choice.

    EDIT: "Reincorporating" is the wrong word. These folks were never properly incroporated in the first place.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    How did this thread about poor people turn into such a discussion of "social miscreants"???


  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts


    EDIT: "Reincorporating" is the wrong word. These folks were never properly incroporated in the first place.

    And what the hell is this? "These people"???

    "Never incorporated in the first place"???


  • phongonephongone 1,652 Posts
    How did this thread about poor people turn into such a discussion of "social miscreants"???


    Mad Drama Teacher believes poor black folk = "social miscreants."

  • You two would do better with visuals, wouldn't you?

  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    Harvey is making much sense in this thread, in my opinion.

    And comparing distrust of the police with hatred for
    an entire race is just disgusting. It's not just a
    matter of apples & oranges, it's a matter of ignorance.
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