DIGGING ETHICS (RR)
Kinetic
3,739 Posts
So, following on from a few 5-pagers and related threads, maybe we should discuss what our digging ethics are?I personalyl think that people have their own ethical standards, and beyond flatly criminal behaviour, you do what you do. We all draw a line in the sand, and I say that because at the end of the day, the whole culture of digging is essentially about finding shit cheap and discovering something dope. It's not about going to a high priced record bourtique and shelling out a fortune.But these days we all source records in different ways. I mean, I'm not emailing gemm sellers and saying, 'excuse me but I should really pay you more than $10 for this 'funky buttercup' 45.' I'm looking for deals on-line and in the real world, but i don't steal from people. I've gotten good deals at shops and I don't offer to pay more than $10 for a record that might be worth $100 - just hand over my money and feel good about the score. What's your digging ethics?
Comments
Me: How much do you want for these?
Them: 5 dollars each.
Me: Thats too much.
Them: Well, how much were you expecting to pay for them?
Me: 1 or 2 dollars, or 5 dollars for all because its a yard sale
It's not stealing. It's free record downloading.
Seriously, though: I never steal records of any kind. I'm a grown man and - due to knowing how to use my money - I pay for my vinyl.
I do not, however, have any sympathy for a dealer that doesn't know the value of their own merchandise. As a seller, that's your job. If you're a buyer that rips off an artist or a grandmother on her basement collection (esp. with intent to re-sell), that's always shady. But a dealer? Fuck them for playing the game wrong. From my perspective, that's what "coming up" means; one seller doesn't know what he has, and - BAM - you've got a sealed copy of T.L. Barrett's Like A Ship (Without A Sail) or Little Woo Woo's take on the Harlem Shuffle for $5 each.
In a larger sense - it's just a speculative market anyway for those big-ticket items. Someone finds a box of sealed copies, or a cheap reissue drops, and the value fluctuates. That's a good reason to be prudent with vinyl purchases.
that is just straight up criminal.
SO, you all sound like damn Martha Stewart,
Not a good look, thats criminal....man please.
Slip those 45's in those record covers,switch those prices, lie to the old lady with the raers....big balls yes...I don't care
Of course there is.
Put simply, not every 'record collector' is a 'crate digger.' The reverse may also be true, but it's a little more of a grey area I think (arguments such as 'digging' solely for sample material makes the base drive finding samples rather than ammassing a collection of records, which is merely incidental, etc).
yeah, there was a guy who had a shop in Baltimore who well into the 90s had no idea that hip-hop had changed the price structure for vinyl and as a result you could find very good deals. Back then he was a pleasant guy.
Then, once he finally started to get an inkling of why certain records were moving so quickly, interacting with him turned annoying as hell. He became aware of the phenomenon of breaks but instead of trying to learn about what was worth what, he just started being suspicious and belligerent when you brought your records to the counter. "Why do you want to buy that one?" "That one shouldn't be $10, that's a mistake, it's supposed to be $25" and like that.
It was particularly annoying for me as I always buy music for listening first and foremost -- if I bring a record to your counter its because I want to hear the music on it and I liked the price tag you put on it.
Do you download music?
Do you borrow your neighbor's internet connection?
Not outbidding "mates" by registering for another account on eBay to win a record they told you they were bidding on...
I thought we cleared this up?
This has given us a slight Dog-eat-dog everyman for himself mentality.
Personally, I don't steal. I don't cheat. I don't bitch and complain or hide the names of the records I play. That's some childish bullshit, but for some people it's necessary. Some cats steal cause stores have ridiculous prices. Some cats steal cause they can. In this game everybodys trying to get over on somebody.
In a perfect world, Dealers would have everything we wanted stocked at reasonable prices. Right now, you take what you can get.
Is there Chivalry in record collecting. Hell no. However your level of scumbag is controllable.
- spidey
hahah we have, i was just clownin... sup m&&k! hit me up on msn!
bev
Definitely. Crate Diggers spend time, record collectors spend money. But, one can be both.
dont sook when i pull out a record you thought about and you put back
wait till i finished looking in the crate then you can too
dont look at my records unless i invite you
if something has a break on it and you know it does dont let the whole record shop know
be friendly to other diggers at fares and we might be able to share some knowledge
be fair in the trade game.
dont be greedy do u really need 3 copies of one record..
be friendly to the 2nd hand record store owners "use the jedi mind trick"
and maybe they'll forgive you...
seriously thou you guys dont know evil until you have this guy called richard from record exchange here in brisbane..
the guys a chump
sheep knows the deal!
word. fuck brisbane. full stop. hahahh
WEAK FOR WAX, but you do iight hommie...
Down here in Africa, digging ethics reach a whole new dimension.
You could literally buy records for pennies.
I usually make different stacks depending on condition and estimated value.
I pay $2 on stuff that I just buy out of curiousity. $10 for stuff that I know is good and $20 and more for stuff that know is worth loot. It has also be considered, that in most cases, there is a middle man: someone who took you to the owner of the records so in the end these prices double once you pay off the agent. So far I went as high as $200 for one LP. This practice not only gives you a lot of happy faces all around but also ensures that everybody and their dog will be scouting the city for records until you return a few weeks later. Most importantly, no-one is going to sell their shit to other white faces who are digging on a backpacker's budget.
stay the fuck out of my crate until i'm done looking though it.
if you're over my shoulder saying: "hey was that the such and such label?", back off captain until i'm done with the crate.
don't go to every dealer and pull out 100 records each and tell the guy to "hold " it for you until you can listen to it while you scour the flea market before guys who buy the same stuff as you get there. in the end, you don't buy half of it anyway.
i try not to pay over $20 for a 45 but as of late i paid $26 on ebay (where i bought exactly 1 record on until oct. of this year). i think i may have to raise my limit because e bay is a bit addicting.
i barter, but don't rip people off. flea market records deserve flea market prices, and i can still find great records without losing my shirt. the best line i ever heard was from a notorious east coast dealer: "let me listen to it on your portable, and then i can formulate a price".
When i pull in a good stack of records and you shave a few bucks off. I appreciate it and I will return to your store/market stand and will spend money again and again.
Thanks!
Don't jack the price up when you see me pull a good stack of records and then shave a few bucks off looking like you're doing me a favor....
Thanks!
Mad respectable, bringing fair trade ethics to small time private industry. You're foiling capitalism Frank, many rich people are offended by your actions.
Ok, second time in a week I've seen this.
Barter - to trade by exchange of commodities rather than by the use of money.
Bargain - to discuss the terms of a bargain; haggle; negotiate.
As far as digging ethics goes, my basic philosophy is- if you feel like you might be doing something shady, you probably are. Everyone has their own opinions about what this might be.
There are probably times when I should have paid people more money for their records than I did. It's hard though when people offer you stuff for $1-2 to say, "no, I want to pay you $5-10 or more," especially when you are buying a lot of records.
They deserve the money, and in the long run you'll feel better about scoring the records than you would have if you made a fortune flippin' em. Seems like you're having success because of your etiquette and ethics.