I know this guy gets a fair amount of hate on SS, but some of his drum programming (around the time of the Soul Position LP) was nuts. Yeah I know he???s loop based but there are some things going with his drums that are clearly the result of great programming.
Jazzy Jay is a personal favorite that almost never gets any mention. Dude was a drummer by trade before even messing with production and it shows. Especially in his late 80s tracks, even the samples are often layered in a very percussive way...sort of a precursor to Premier's sound.
Schooly D's skill doesn't begin and end with "P.S.K." either. All of the drums from the "Saturday Night" era and before are ill and sound like nobody else's.
DJ Shadow (not a "drum programmer" in the same sense, but a master at adding small nuances to his drums and making a dope break even better)
I know what you mean I guess, but even if you only take this one example, his drum programming on 'Guns Blazing' off the Unkle album was the very definition of
Not to detract from Shadow, but that's a straight loop pretty much I think.
Just to counter that - given that I have heard the guns blazing track and also have the record he took those drums from, I can pretty much certify that it is not a strtaight loop.
I just listened to them back to back and they're not that much different. Just saying, the Tullio break is fresh as hell though.
the drums on The Prodigy's "Fat Of The Land" are amongst the best ever heard...
I really think you should check out the first drum segment of The Weather Experience (before the storm-cloud interlude and the track going all ravey). I just looked at Discogs to check the date, and somebody has commented that the drums have been lifted from Uptown's Dope On Plastic. Weather* or not Howlett got them from Uptown or UBB, this would be a good example to compare (a) some great hip-hop drums from Dante Ross on Dope..., and (b) then study the subtle transformation they under-go at the hands of Liam Howlett; for the discogs contributor to describe them as a 'straight lift' is just plain deaf[/b]. For me, the Uptown drums are a loop, and if there's any chopping it would be fairly minor and not really changing the emphasis of the break at all**, while the Weather drums are chopped in a way that makes me question what timing they're in, and IMO on a different level to most sh*t being produced in '92.
*Buh-dum tish ** Please correct me on this if I'm missing something - I'll be listening to the two again when I finish work anyway
Neptunes drums on NOREs 'Nothin'... they crack. Amazing programming and mixing.
And on 'Fat Of The Land'. Howlett is a big hip hop head (just check all the Ultra's he samples). 'Fat Of The Land' has some of the best sounding drums on it anywhere.
a few Pork Chops of the past: DJ Shadow (from the In/Flux breakdown right up to Pysence Fiction) Automator (I love the transformer breakdowns he did on Bear Witness and A Better Tomorrow w/ Kool Keith) Photek (Into The Nineties is some hip-hop tempo brilliance)
some Pork Chops of the present: J-Rocc (Dirty Fingered B-Boy, Cold Heat remixes) The Underdog (his best work always seem to be remixes - should be in the past section, but he still brings out the occasional gem) Biggabush aka Lightning Head (check the soundclips) Danny Breaks (all that wobbly b-line stuff also has nice beats) Natural Self (his 7"s on Tru Thoughts are great drums)
Clear Channel Programming: co-sign on the Fort Knox Five. Boring. Kanye. Nice loops, not much creativity.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Favorites: All-time: Three 6 Mafia Right now: Mr. Rogers
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
That beat is hot, but there's nothing special about those drums at all.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
That beat is hot, but there's nothing special about those drums at all.
They are stock drums fasho, but I like what he does with them...especially the build-ups and drum-n-bass rolls on the turnarounds. And your response reminds me how so many were sleeping on Three 6 Mafia drum programming a decade ago when the analytical focus was too far skewed in the boom-bap-esque direction of how a drum sound was filtered and less on what dudes were actually doing with those drum sounds.
Premier's drums always sounded good but they're always the same. Dilla had so many different drum sounds. Breaks, chopped drums, minimalist no-hithat, thoroughly off-kilter shit that shouldn't sound good but does.
That last single Pete Rock did with his bro had "get out of my life woman" drums. I want to hate it for that but I can't. It sounds good.
I think people neglect to mention him because of however they feel about "happy rap" or the way that he used big samples or was accused of biting a couple times ("Top Billin"/"I Got An Attitude"/"10% Dis"). I think Hurby's chopping and EQ'ing was the first generation of really awesomely clean rap drums, like, the same sorta drum criteria that Dr. Dre gets so much praise for.
No doubt I recognize Marley Marl too and everyone else mentioned but I can't leave this guy out.
He should do more stuff like this imho, one of my favourite BLAZINGDOWNTEMPO tracks evar.
Apparently it's a poor-quality preview, but you should be able to make out a sample of Lonnie Smith's "Voodoo Woman" chopped into something else entirely, and some great drum chops I don't recognise.
Comments
I know this guy gets a fair amount of hate on SS, but some of his drum programming (around the time of the Soul Position LP) was nuts.
Yeah I know he???s loop based but there are some things going with his drums that are clearly the result of great programming.
Schooly D's skill doesn't begin and end with "P.S.K." either. All of the drums from the "Saturday Night" era and before are ill and sound like nobody else's.
I just listened to them back to back and they're not that much different. Just saying, the Tullio break is fresh as hell though.
I really think you should check out the first drum segment of The Weather Experience (before the storm-cloud interlude and the track going all ravey). I just looked at Discogs to check the date, and somebody has commented that the drums have been lifted from Uptown's Dope On Plastic. Weather* or not Howlett got them from Uptown or UBB, this would be a good example to compare (a) some great hip-hop drums from Dante Ross on Dope..., and (b) then study the subtle transformation they under-go at the hands of Liam Howlett; for the discogs contributor to describe them as a 'straight lift' is just plain deaf[/b]. For me, the Uptown drums are a loop, and if there's any chopping it would be fairly minor and not really changing the emphasis of the break at all**, while the Weather drums are chopped in a way that makes me question what timing they're in, and IMO on a different level to most sh*t being produced in '92.
*Buh-dum tish
** Please correct me on this if I'm missing something - I'll be listening to the two again when I finish work anyway
Kraftwerk / Roedelius - pffff fizzzz pffff fizzz
Old:
Ced Gee / Marley - for the funkiness
Mantronix - holy shit... i'm sorry but Cold Gettin Dumb by Just Ice is just Frickin' RETARDED..this dood was on a whole other planet for that era..
P Rock - For the filters and the SNAP
New:
Dilla - for the syncopation
Maurice Fulton - for recording real drummers and then flipping / chopping the results to outstanding effect
Morgan Geist - dood just knows how to make the simple shit sound like solid gold
And cut chemist. He's got a hard swing, and he cuts with a swing feel too that I just love.
they make boom-bap club tastic.
And
a few Pork Chops of the past:
DJ Shadow (from the In/Flux breakdown right up to Pysence Fiction)
Automator (I love the transformer breakdowns he did on Bear Witness and A Better Tomorrow w/ Kool Keith)
Photek (Into The Nineties is some hip-hop tempo brilliance)
some Pork Chops of the present:
J-Rocc (Dirty Fingered B-Boy, Cold Heat remixes)
The Underdog (his best work always seem to be remixes - should be in the past section, but he still brings out the occasional gem)
Biggabush aka Lightning Head (check the soundclips)
Danny Breaks (all that wobbly b-line stuff also has nice beats)
Natural Self (his 7"s on Tru Thoughts are great drums)
Clear Channel Programming:
co-sign on the Fort Knox Five. Boring.
Kanye. Nice loops, not much creativity.
All-time: Three 6 Mafia
Right now: Mr. Rogers
That beat is hot, but there's nothing special about those drums at all.
They are stock drums fasho, but I like what he does with them...especially the build-ups and drum-n-bass rolls on the turnarounds. And your response reminds me how so many were sleeping on Three 6 Mafia drum programming a decade ago when the analytical focus was too far skewed in the boom-bap-esque direction of how a drum sound was filtered and less on what dudes were actually doing with those drum sounds.
COOOOOOOOOLLDDDDDDD!
Major-Cosign
The drums on FourHills are both tight/hard and floating at the same time...plus the timely scratching must i add...
My favorite drum programmers are/were:
-Mantronik.
-Marley Marl.
-45 King.
-Afrika Baby Bam.
-Ced-Gee.
-Pete Rock.
-Premiere.
-Latief.
-T-Ray.
-Buckwild (used "Rill Thing" a lil' too much though).
-J-Dilla.
-Muggs.
-The Bomb Squad.
-Large Professor.
-Q-Tip.
-The Beatnuts.
-Godfather Don.
-The Rza.
-V.I.C.
-Mista Lawnge.
-Wonder Why.
My least favorites are/were:
-9th Wonder (no creativity).
-Kanye West.
-Audio Two (terrible sample quality).
-Big Daddy Kane.
-Laz-E-Laz.
-Lawrence Goodman.
-Hammer.
-Greg Nice.
-Dangermouse.
-Buckshot.
-Lord Jamar.
-Butterfly.
-Ski.
-Guru.
-L.E.S.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
That last single Pete Rock did with his bro had "get out of my life woman" drums. I want to hate it for that but I can't. It sounds good.
I think people neglect to mention him because of however they feel about "happy rap" or the way that he used big samples or was accused of biting a couple times ("Top Billin"/"I Got An Attitude"/"10% Dis"). I think Hurby's chopping and EQ'ing was the first generation of really awesomely clean rap drums, like, the same sorta drum criteria that Dr. Dre gets so much praise for.
No doubt I recognize Marley Marl too and everyone else mentioned but I can't leave this guy out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_"Jellybean"_Benitez
Fanu, DnB producer, chopping things up at hip-hop speed:
http://www.allmp3online.com/listen/559619.m3u
He should do more stuff like this imho, one of my favourite BLAZINGDOWNTEMPO tracks evar.
Apparently it's a poor-quality preview, but you should be able to make out a sample of Lonnie Smith's "Voodoo Woman" chopped into something else entirely, and some great drum chops I don't recognise.