Also, I'd like to raise this: if rap sales amongst the "core" audience (however you care to define that) are still healthy - what % of overall consumers does that core audience actually represent?
Just to clarify: I wouldn't describe sales amongst rap's core audience as "healthy"--I would, instead, use the word static.
For example, there are no chain retailers left in Harlem and only a handful of mom & pop stores. This means that if you want to purchase the official CD without getting on the train, you're going to have to wait until very close to the release date and will pay something like 17.99. Official "sales" are not a very good measure of consumption in a community like that, where the means of choice of acquiring music is, and has been, bootleg and mix CDs, which are available up and down 125th Street at 3 for $5. Downloading is also a factor, although its more difficult to gauge, since it's not taking place in public.
I agree with what's being said here but want to add this:
Isn't the real issue here less about who is consuming what and how much but rather: is hip-hop still making enough money to sustain the industry that's grown up around it? After all, consumption patterns are dependent on there actually being product to consume and the presence of anything in the marketplace: mix-CDs, ringtones, downloads, old fashioned albums, etc. is a reflection of that relative health, right?
So declining sales amongst ALL rap consumers - core or not - would, in theory, lead to less of everything being available, no?
I'm not suggesting this is either a good or bad thing. Personally, I think hip-hop's been in a crisis of overproduction for years so it'd be nice to see things slow down, roll back and reset.
Also, I'd like to raise this: if rap sales amongst the "core" audience (however you care to define that) are still healthy - what % of overall consumers does that core audience actually represent?
Just to clarify: I wouldn't describe sales amongst rap's core audience as "healthy"--I would, instead, use the word static.
For example, there are no chain retailers left in Harlem and only a handful of mom & pop stores. This means that if you want to purchase the official CD without getting on the train, you're going to have to wait until very close to the release date and will pay something like 17.99. Official "sales" are not a very good measure of consumption in a community like that, where the means of choice of acquiring music is, and has been, bootleg and mix CDs, which are available up and down 125th Street at 3 for $5. Downloading is also a factor, although its more difficult to gauge, since it's not taking place in public.
I agree with what's being said here but want to add this:
Isn't the real issue here less about who is consuming what and how much but rather: is hip-hop still making enough money to sustain the industry that's grown up around it? After all, consumption patterns are dependent on there actually being product to consume and the presence of anything in the marketplace: mix-CDs, ringtones, downloads, old fashioned albums, etc. is a reflection of that relative health, right?
So declining sales amongst ALL rap consumers - core or not - would, in theory, lead to less of everything being available, no?
I'm not suggesting this is either a good or bad thing. Personally, I think hip-hop's been in a crisis of overproduction for years so it'd be nice to see things slow down, roll back and reset.
i'm supposed to interview someone on the scream tour this weekend and i'm guessing that the allstate arena will be packed. if its not, and there's a dwindling audience for this sort of thing, i'll take it that rap as a market is declining.
its one thing to say 'oh harlem still buys rap' and its another thing to see stadium tours selling out, ringtone sales going thru the roof, etc. Because i know that folks place a lot of value one what the hood is doing but rap has been a cross-demographic phenomenon for a long time now and the 'core audience' exists across these demographics. CD sales are the least telling of all indicators, particularly now.
yeah but it's #1 with only 155,000 copies sold compared to 185,000 the week "Be" debuted (and even then, that came in as #2).
#1 these days means relatively little since you can get to that spot with significantly less sales depending on the competition that week. Compare this with T.I.'s first week sales.
yeah but it's #1 with only 155,000 copies sold compared to 185,000 the week "Be" debuted (and even then, that came in as #2).
#1 these days means relatively little since you can get to that spot with significantly less sales depending on the competition that week. Compare this with T.I.'s first week sales.
yeah i don't mean to infer that its a smash, but still, its relative to the rest of sales so hip-hop could still be 'dominating' - is 155,000 in 2007 the same as 300,000 in 2001?
yeah but it's #1 with only 155,000 copies sold compared to 185,000 the week "Be" debuted (and even then, that came in as #2).
#1 these days means relatively little since you can get to that spot with significantly less sales depending on the competition that week. Compare this with T.I.'s first week sales.
yeah i don't mean to infer that its a smash, but still, its relative to the rest of sales so hip-hop could still be 'dominating' - is 155,000 in 2007 the same as 300,000 in 2001?
A better question would be how many rap artists end up on the year end top 10 sales list. I'm just saying that: in any given week, #1 status doesn't necessarily mean much.
At I'm not suggesting 155,000 is anything to sneeze at but let's see how long it takes the CD to go gold.
damn I always thought these two were the same. color me disconnected from archaic Houston rap ramblings.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
K-Rino, Ryno, etc.?
damn I always thought these two were the same. color me disconnected from archaic Houston rap ramblings.
There's K-Rino of South Park Coalition out of Houston who's been doing it since the late '80's.
Then there's Rob Da Ryno, also out of Houston, who's down with Freestyle Kingz and the Whut It Dew Family.
Then there's Ryno out of Austin from On the Line Records who's excellent album from last year titled They Call Me 'No still needs to be picked up by any given Soulstrutter besides me.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
yeah but it's #1 with only 155,000 copies sold compared to 185,000 the week "Be" debuted (and even then, that came in as #2).
#1 these days means relatively little since you can get to that spot with significantly less sales depending on the competition that week. Compare this with T.I.'s first week sales.
yeah i don't mean to infer that its a smash, but still, its relative to the rest of sales so hip-hop could still be 'dominating' - is 155,000 in 2007 the same as 300,000 in 2001?
A better question would be how many rap artists end up on the year end top 10 sales list. I'm just saying that: in any given week, #1 status doesn't necessarily mean much.
At I'm not suggesting 155,000 is anything to sneeze at but let's see how long it takes the CD to go gold.
And if you want to take it to a crazy KRS level, if there really is a backlash against "gangsta rap" does Common's content have anything to do with him being #1?
In reality, I think most people just get bored with the same music dominating and move onto something new. Look at the music business throughout time. There's been everything from singer/songwriters to heavy/hair metal that was once on top. It's just the way things go in cycles.
yeah but it's #1 with only 155,000 copies sold compared to 185,000 the week "Be" debuted (and even then, that came in as #2).
#1 these days means relatively little since you can get to that spot with significantly less sales depending on the competition that week. Compare this with T.I.'s first week sales.
yeah i don't mean to infer that its a smash, but still, its relative to the rest of sales so hip-hop could still be 'dominating' - is 155,000 in 2007 the same as 300,000 in 2001?
A better question would be how many rap artists end up on the year end top 10 sales list. I'm just saying that: in any given week, #1 status doesn't necessarily mean much.
At I'm not suggesting 155,000 is anything to sneeze at but let's see how long it takes the CD to go gold.
And if you want to take it to a crazy KRS level, if there really is a backlash against "gangsta rap" does Common's content have anything to do with him being #1?
common going on oprah probably has to do w/ him going to number 1
yeah but it's #1 with only 155,000 copies sold compared to 185,000 the week "Be" debuted (and even then, that came in as #2).
#1 these days means relatively little since you can get to that spot with significantly less sales depending on the competition that week. Compare this with T.I.'s first week sales.
yeah i don't mean to infer that its a smash, but still, its relative to the rest of sales so hip-hop could still be 'dominating' - is 155,000 in 2007 the same as 300,000 in 2001?
A better question would be how many rap artists end up on the year end top 10 sales list. I'm just saying that: in any given week, #1 status doesn't necessarily mean much.
At I'm not suggesting 155,000 is anything to sneeze at but let's see how long it takes the CD to go gold.
And if you want to take it to a crazy KRS level, if there really is a backlash against "gangsta rap" does Common's content have anything to do with him being #1?
common going on oprah probably has to do w/ him going to number 1
And--as the boy Noz pointed out--partering with Starbucks, Coca-Cola, Jeremy Piven and any other purveyor of softbatch lifestyles that will team up with him.
yeah but it's #1 with only 155,000 copies sold compared to 185,000 the week "Be" debuted (and even then, that came in as #2).
#1 these days means relatively little since you can get to that spot with significantly less sales depending on the competition that week. Compare this with T.I.'s first week sales.
yeah i don't mean to infer that its a smash, but still, its relative to the rest of sales so hip-hop could still be 'dominating' - is 155,000 in 2007 the same as 300,000 in 2001?
A better question would be how many rap artists end up on the year end top 10 sales list. I'm just saying that: in any given week, #1 status doesn't necessarily mean much.
At I'm not suggesting 155,000 is anything to sneeze at but let's see how long it takes the CD to go gold.
And if you want to take it to a crazy KRS level, if there really is a backlash against "gangsta rap" does Common's content have anything to do with him being #1?
common going on oprah probably has to do w/ him going to number 1
Not to mention dropping lines about People Magazine and Yoga.
yeah but it's #1 with only 155,000 copies sold compared to 185,000 the week "Be" debuted (and even then, that came in as #2).
#1 these days means relatively little since you can get to that spot with significantly less sales depending on the competition that week. Compare this with T.I.'s first week sales.
yeah i don't mean to infer that its a smash, but still, its relative to the rest of sales so hip-hop could still be 'dominating' - is 155,000 in 2007 the same as 300,000 in 2001?
A better question would be how many rap artists end up on the year end top 10 sales list. I'm just saying that: in any given week, #1 status doesn't necessarily mean much.
At I'm not suggesting 155,000 is anything to sneeze at but let's see how long it takes the CD to go gold.
And if you want to take it to a crazy KRS level, if there really is a backlash against "gangsta rap" does Common's content have anything to do with him being #1?
common going on oprah probably has to do w/ him going to number 1
Not to mention dropping lines about People Magazine and Yoga.
She was the type to watch Oprah and the Today Show Be on the treadmill, uh, like "Okay, go" Had a body, A body that you can't pay fo' That mean she had some Ds on her but they wasn't fake though Had a drive for a drive for Rodeo She spent pesos on those Lebeaus Spin class at the gym, strip tease on a pole She was so obsessed with her body and clothes To every party she goes, tryin hard to be chose They say it's hard for a pimp but extra hard for these (hoes) Readin Us and People Mag, tryna get the scoop[/b] Chasin a actor for a Bentley Coupe She been through the ball player from the Clippers, then came the pumps All thinkin she number one where she was just a jumpoff Doin all she can for a man and a baby Drivin herself crazy like the astronaut lady
i believe he uses the incorrect pronoun to prevent us from realizing this is autobiographical
funny, he actually drops a reference to jennifer aniston in one track.
It is forever burned into my consciousness.
He says something along the lines of "Like Vince and Jen in The Breakup...."
Schitt's unforgivable.
Yeah, that "Reese and Ryan" line makes me squirm too. Despite some terrible one liners I still like most of that album, although I think I'm in the minority on here. Alot of it sounds like "Be" minus, but some cuts ("Black Maybe", "The People", "The Game", "Break My Heart" [yes that just happened] etc.) are decent.
Emynd and Oliver mentioned something about Race, Olive specifically with Latinos. I'll try and find some real ones and see what they say.
F'really, I experience two different situations. One if the Latinos that have been here for a generation or more, I mean ones that are like everybody else; they're no different. Some will dl'd off of the internet, some will buy the cd, some will go to itunes etc..
But the ones that don't have access to soulseek, lime wire tend to either cop bootleg joints (there aren't too many in S.F.) and you can find them buying shit at the Ritmo Latino type spots. Again, though i'm not how many folks like that there is and if they're spending a lot of just buying a cd once in a while.
THINGS GO IN CYCLES
Yeah, I mean i figure this day would come by never in our time. I'm basically saying the music of our generation isn't the #1 thing anymore to the GENERAL public. I just hope hip-hop doesn't shrink to some micro genre like fucking drum and bass or gets relegated to the back corner of the store like classical.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
On Latinos:
Who else do you think is actually buying rap cd's down here in Texas?
Who else do you think is actually buying rap cd's down here in Texas?
i'm not in texas, but i'm sure it's a lot and you'll gladly speak on their behalf, since you know them so well (FILE UDNER: IDENTIFYING THEM BY THE BACK OF THEIR NECK)
TELL ME ABOUT THE REAL LATINO EXPERIENCE RASHIED.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
On Latinos:
Who else do you think is actually buying rap cd's down here in Texas?
i'm not in texas, but i'm sure it's a lot and you'll gladly speak on their behalf, since you know them so well (FILE UDNER: IDENTIFYING THEM BY THE BACK OF THEIR NECK)
TELL ME ABOUT THE REAL LATINO EXPERIENCE RASHIED.
If you lived in Texas, you wouldn't be able to hide the fact that you are a blatant queen.
funny, he actually drops a reference to jennifer aniston in one track.
It is forever burned into my consciousness.
He says something along the lines of "Like Vince and Jen in The Breakup...."
Schitt's unforgivable.
Yeah, that "Reese and Ryan" line makes me squirm too. Despite some terrible one liners I still like most of that album, although I think I'm in the minority on here.
"Driving herself crazy like the astronaut lady" made me say "argh" outloud.
can someone tell me what exactly is wrong with declining rap sales?
to me it sounds like a good thing because it will put a dent in the lames at work asking me if I like some dumb shit like common or if I can name some new fucking garbage ass Fabulous song
can someone tell me what exactly is wrong with declining rap sales?
to me it sounds like a good thing because it will put a dent in the lames at work asking me if I like some dumb shit like common or if I can name some new fucking garbage ass Fabulous song
^^^^^^^^DOESN'T LIKE COMMON BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE HIM WANT TO BREAK STUFF, YELL, OR BREAK STUFF BY YELLING AT IT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Comments
I don't think this will ever get old.
I agree with what's being said here but want to add this:
Isn't the real issue here less about who is consuming what and how much but rather: is hip-hop still making enough money to sustain the industry that's grown up around it? After all, consumption patterns are dependent on there actually being product to consume and the presence of anything in the marketplace: mix-CDs, ringtones, downloads, old fashioned albums, etc. is a reflection of that relative health, right?
So declining sales amongst ALL rap consumers - core or not - would, in theory, lead to less of everything being available, no?
I'm not suggesting this is either a good or bad thing. Personally, I think hip-hop's been in a crisis of overproduction for years so it'd be nice to see things slow down, roll back and reset.
its one thing to say 'oh harlem still buys rap' and its another thing to see stadium tours selling out, ringtone sales going thru the roof, etc. Because i know that folks place a lot of value one what the hood is doing but rap has been a cross-demographic phenomenon for a long time now and the 'core audience' exists across these demographics. CD sales are the least telling of all indicators, particularly now.
btw Common's album is #1 this week
yeah but it's #1 with only 155,000 copies sold compared to 185,000 the week "Be" debuted (and even then, that came in as #2).
#1 these days means relatively little since you can get to that spot with significantly less sales depending on the competition that week. Compare this with T.I.'s first week sales.
A better question would be how many rap artists end up on the year end top 10 sales list. I'm just saying that: in any given week, #1 status doesn't necessarily mean much.
At I'm not suggesting 155,000 is anything to sneeze at but let's see how long it takes the CD to go gold.
damn I always thought these two were the same. color me disconnected from archaic Houston rap ramblings.
There's K-Rino of South Park Coalition out of Houston who's been doing it since the late '80's.
Then there's Rob Da Ryno, also out of Houston, who's down with Freestyle Kingz and the Whut It Dew Family.
Then there's Ryno out of Austin from On the Line Records who's excellent album from last year titled They Call Me 'No still needs to be picked up by any given Soulstrutter besides me.
Rob Da Ryno (with Raekwon):
Ryno:
And if you want to take it to a
crazyKRS level, if there really is a backlash against "gangsta rap" does Common's content have anything to do with him being #1?In reality, I think most people just get bored with the same music dominating and move onto something new. Look at the music business throughout time. There's been everything from singer/songwriters to heavy/hair metal that was once on top. It's just the way things go in cycles.
And--as the boy Noz pointed out--partering with Starbucks, Coca-Cola, Jeremy Piven and any other purveyor of softbatch lifestyles that will team up with him.
Not to mention dropping lines about People Magazine and Yoga.
"I can relate"
I actually like that album for the most part.
Jennifer Aniston rap
and 'reese and ryan.'
then he makes a song deriding women who read people magazine
It is forever burned into my consciousness.
He says something along the lines of "Like Vince and Jen in The Breakup...."
Schitt's unforgivable.
Be on the treadmill, uh, like "Okay, go"
Had a body, A body that you can't pay fo'
That mean she had some Ds on her but they wasn't fake though
Had a drive for a drive for Rodeo
She spent pesos on those Lebeaus
Spin class at the gym, strip tease on a pole
She was so obsessed with her body and clothes
To every party she goes, tryin hard to be chose
They say it's hard for a pimp but extra hard for these (hoes)
Readin Us and People Mag, tryna get the scoop[/b]
Chasin a actor for a Bentley Coupe
She been through the ball player from the Clippers, then came the pumps
All thinkin she number one where she was just a jumpoff
Doin all she can for a man and a baby
Drivin herself crazy like the astronaut lady
i believe he uses the incorrect pronoun to prevent us from realizing this is autobiographical
Yeah, that "Reese and Ryan" line makes me squirm too.
Despite some terrible one liners I still like most of that album, although I think I'm in the minority on here. Alot of it sounds like "Be" minus, but some cuts ("Black Maybe", "The People", "The Game", "Break My Heart" [yes that just happened] etc.) are decent.
Anyway back to the matter at hand:
IS 50 CENT THE NEW MOTLEY CRU?
j/k
i've been listening to the album a lot. but i'll save my opinion on it and not to try and de-rail an actual good discussion.
AND LOOK AT THAT K-RHINO DUDE POSING WITH RAEKWON TRYING TO RIDE COAT TAILS AND STEAL THE SPOTLIGHT! WITH A NEW YORKER NO LESS!
Even beyond RIF, you need help.
F'really, I experience two different situations. One if the Latinos that have been here for a generation or more, I mean ones that are like everybody else; they're no different. Some will dl'd off of the internet, some will buy the cd, some will go to itunes etc..
But the ones that don't have access to soulseek, lime wire tend to either cop bootleg joints (there aren't too many in S.F.) and you can find them buying shit at the Ritmo Latino type spots. Again, though i'm not how many folks like that there is and if they're spending a lot of just buying a cd once in a while.
THINGS GO IN CYCLES
Yeah, I mean i figure this day would come by never in our time. I'm basically saying the music of our generation isn't the #1 thing anymore to the GENERAL public. I just hope hip-hop doesn't shrink to some micro genre like fucking drum and bass or gets relegated to the back corner of the store like classical.
Who else do you think is actually buying rap cd's down here in Texas?
i'm not in texas, but i'm sure it's a lot and you'll gladly speak on their behalf, since you know them so well (FILE UDNER: IDENTIFYING THEM BY THE BACK OF THEIR NECK)
TELL ME ABOUT THE REAL LATINO EXPERIENCE RASHIED.
If you lived in Texas, you wouldn't be able to hide the fact that you are a blatant queen.
"Driving herself crazy like the astronaut lady" made me say "argh" outloud.
well put and yes
to me it sounds like a good thing because it will put a dent in the lames at work asking me if I like some dumb shit like common or if I can name some new fucking garbage ass Fabulous song
The rap line is flat relative to the total sales line. That's what I love about USA Today. You don't even have to read it.
^^^^^^^^DOESN'T LIKE COMMON BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE HIM WANT TO BREAK STUFF, YELL, OR BREAK STUFF BY YELLING AT IT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
T-T-T-T-T-TOTALLY DUDE.
You rolling friday to MILK?
but yeah I'm gonna roll through friday