That's why personal limits, based on personal budgets, reign over "market value."
True. My cap has been about 50 bucks for a single piece since my son was born 4 years ago...and in many ways it has made collecting records even more enjoyable, and certainly less impulsive.
Ha - I think I've gone the other way. Since my daughter was born, my ceiling for spending has risen but mostly because I have even LESS time to find/buy stuff.
(I'm) surprised ("Hercules") didn't end up in the What It Is box.
Wasn't "Hercules" on Mercury?
I think that's one reason why this song wasn't on the What It Is box, since that set tended to focus on tracks from the Warners and Atlantic archives, plus a few smaller labels. Mercury is neither small nor affiliated with Warner/Elektra/Atlantic, so naturally that bad boy was gonna be overlooked.
(I'm) surprised ("Hercules") didn't end up in the What It Is box.
Wasn't "Hercules" on Mercury?
I think that's one reason why this song wasn't on the What It Is box, since that set tended to focus on tracks from the Warners and Atlantic archives, plus a few smaller labels. Mercury is neither small nor affiliated with Warner/Elektra/Atlantic, so naturally that bad boy was gonna be overlooked.
Ah, good point - for some reason, I thought it was on WB, but I'm confusing that with Cyril Neville's "Gossip". (That was WB, right?)
(I'm) surprised ("Hercules") didn't end up in the What It Is box.
Wasn't "Hercules" on Mercury?
I think that's one reason why this song wasn't on the What It Is box, since that set tended to focus on tracks from the Warners and Atlantic archives, plus a few smaller labels. Mercury is neither small nor affiliated with Warner/Elektra/Atlantic, so naturally that bad boy was gonna be overlooked.
Ah, good point - for some reason, I thought it was on WB, but I'm confusing that with Cyril Neville's "Gossip". (That was WB, right?)
No, that was Josie, one of the smaller labels I alluded to. A subsidiary of J/G, in Philadelphia. Not exactly a private press, but not quite a conglomerate, either (and miraculously still in business). Somehow or another, a few stray J/G tracks wound up on What It Is, as well as labels smaller than that (like whatever company put out the House Guests' record).
Going back to my original point, does anyone on here consider this song funk, and if so, why? (nothing to do with the worthiness of the song, but a classification curiousity to me)
(I'm) surprised ("Hercules") didn't end up in the What It Is box.
Wasn't "Hercules" on Mercury?
I think that's one reason why this song wasn't on the What It Is box, since that set tended to focus on tracks from the Warners and Atlantic archives, plus a few smaller labels. Mercury is neither small nor affiliated with Warner/Elektra/Atlantic, so naturally that bad boy was gonna be overlooked.
Ah, good point - for some reason, I thought it was on WB, but I'm confusing that with Cyril Neville's "Gossip". (That was WB, right?)
Mine is on Josie...was Josie affiliated with WB? edit - question answered
this uk compilation contains a different version of hercules to any other version i've ever heard, i always thought it was because they in error used a different reel/take when compiling the lp. has extra keys/somekinda string synth on it, anyone know anything about this version?
this uk compilation contains a different version of hercules to any other version i've ever heard, i always thought it was because they in error used a different reel/take when compiling the lp. has extra keys/somekinda string synth on it, anyone know anything about this version?
Crazy, I've never even seen that before. Unfortunately, my only copy is from the Neville Bros. comp on Rhino (?).
*I put up a re-edit I did but just realized there's a skip towards the end sorry
Perhaps this was already mentioned, but there was a vinyl pressing of Hercules.
Oh word?
Yep. Significantly harder to find though.
Is it a white or red label, or both?
I want to say red only, but I don't know for sure.
Yes. That's the issue version that had the pressing flaw, as far as I know.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Going back to my original point, does anyone on here consider this song funk, and if so, why? (nothing to do with the worthiness of the song, but a classification curiousity to me)
How is it NOT funk might be the better question.
We've been down this road before, but it pains me to see peoples' definition of funk be so rigid to attempt to exclude much of early NOLA funk from the classification just because much of it toes the edge of being soul as well. Not every funk song has to either replicate James Brown or Parliament to be considered funk.
The bassline in Hercules is what primarily makes it a funk song. Sure, the song as a whole foreshadows a whole lot of Motown soul music that was to come after it...but a lot of that stuff, like much of the early 70's Temptations material, was funk as well.
The Isleys present probably the best example of a group that weaved in and out between genres of rock, funk, and soul. And It's Your Thing is definitely a funk song.
Though I'm confused - is there a lot of NOLA songs that do NOT get the "funk" nod? To me, NOLA and funk are synonymous. Who gets excluded?
Going back to my original point, does anyone on here consider this song funk, and if so, why? (nothing to do with the worthiness of the song, but a classification curiousity to me)
How is it NOT funk might be the better question.
We've been down this road before, but it pains me to see peoples' definition of funk be so rigid to attempt to exclude much of early NOLA funk from the classification just because much of it toes the edge of being soul as well. Not every funk song has to either replicate James Brown or Parliament to be considered funk.
The bassline in Hercules is what primarily makes it a funk song. Sure, the song as a whole foreshadows a whole lot of Motown soul music that was to come after it...but a lot of that stuff, like much of the early 70's Temptations material, was funk as well.
The Isleys present probably the best example of a group that weaved in and out between genres of rock, funk, and soul. And It's Your Thing is definitely a funk song.
(I'm) surprised ("Hercules") didn't end up in the What It Is box.
Wasn't "Hercules" on Mercury?
I think that's one reason why this song wasn't on the What It Is box, since that set tended to focus on tracks from the Warners and Atlantic archives, plus a few smaller labels. Mercury is neither small nor affiliated with Warner/Elektra/Atlantic, so naturally that bad boy was gonna be overlooked.
Ah, good point - for some reason, I thought it was on WB, but I'm confusing that with Cyril Neville's "Gossip". (That was WB, right?)
No, that was Josie, one of the smaller labels I alluded to. A subsidiary of J/G, in Philadelphia. Not exactly a private press, but not quite a conglomerate, either (and miraculously still in business). Somehow or another, a few stray J/G tracks wound up on What It Is, as well as labels smaller than that (like whatever company put out the House Guests' record).
Thanks for clarifying...I feel a bit dumb since I should know this better given my work on the boxset but I'm away from home and don't have the set in front of me.
it's an old mid 70's released polydor soul/funk comp on vinyl in the uk, i think to just kinda promote the label artists. i'll try and pull it out and get a clip up shortly, and unless my ears have always deceived me it's a different take or mix.
Going back to my original point, does anyone on here consider this song funk, and if so, why? (nothing to do with the worthiness of the song, but a classification curiousity to me)
How is it NOT funk might be the better question.
We've been down this road before, but it pains me to see peoples' definition of funk be so rigid to attempt to exclude much of early NOLA funk from the classification just because much of it toes the edge of being soul as well. Not every funk song has to either replicate James Brown or Parliament to be considered funk.
The bassline in Hercules is what primarily makes it a funk song. Sure, the song as a whole foreshadows a whole lot of Motown soul music that was to come after it...but a lot of that stuff, like much of the early 70's Temptations material, was funk as well.
The Isleys present probably the best example of a group that weaved in and out between genres of rock, funk, and soul. And It's Your Thing is definitely a funk song.
IMO so too is Hercules.
"Toes the edge of being soul"?! LOL. Hercules is through and through a soul song. I would argue that it toes the edge of being a funk song. Anyway, Hercules is not exactly early NOLA funk (or soul). Didn't it come out in the early 70s? And me saying it's a stretch to consider one specific song funk is not exactly akin to me trying to write off the entire region's musical legacy as not being funky. You've got a wild and untamed imagination, I will say that.
Though I'm confused - is there a lot of NOLA songs that do NOT get the "funk" nod? To me, NOLA and funk are synonymous. Who gets excluded?
I guess to me the notion of a funk "nod" seems a little odd. Is me saying Hercules is more of a soul song than a funk song perceived as slighting the quality of the music? Is soul considered too plain of a descriptor?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Though I'm confused - is there a lot of NOLA songs that do NOT get the "funk" nod? To me, NOLA and funk are synonymous. Who gets excluded?
Not by all, but many exclude Professor Longhair's Big Chief and Smokey Johnson's It Ain't My Fault, among others. I might even go deeper and further back into time than that and try to include certain songs by Dave Bartholomew and Allen Toussaint that would quickly be dismissed by overzealous JB worshippers.
I know that Hercules isn't all that early in the game, but funk-wise to me it's not too far off from Chocolate Milk's Actions Speak Louder Than Words.
I don't think there's much of a funk orthodoxy out there to begin with, let alone one that would exclude the New Orleans second line tradition. Even Rickey Vincent, who few here respect, pays respect to the likes of Bo, Toussaint and of course, the Meters.
From what I've seen over the years, the holy funk trilogy usually includes Brown, the Meters and Clinton. Smokey Johnson may not be as famous as, say, Stubblefield, but that's hardly a snub considering how many drummers, in general, are unknown by the average funkateer.
Morever, I think the way things have moved has been to tie the roots of James Brown closer to the second line though, in that move, itd also tie the second line closer to Cuban music but that's another story/
Though I'm confused - is there a lot of NOLA songs that do NOT get the "funk" nod? To me, NOLA and funk are synonymous.
They shouldn't be synonymous. New Orleans had variety, it's not like everything from that town had to represent the second line. "Sea Cruise" (Frankie Ford), "The Things I Used To Do" (Guitar Slim), "Chapel Of Love" (the Dixie Cups)-all three of them records originated in NOLA and are classics, but you'd have to be stone deaf to call them "funky."
Hey, Chicago is known for its' ballads, but then where does that leave Alvin Cash?
Though I'm confused - is there a lot of NOLA songs that do NOT get the "funk" nod? To me, NOLA and funk are synonymous.
They shouldn't be synonymous. New Orleans had variety, it's not like everything from that town had to represent the second line. "Sea Cruise" (Frankie Ford), "The Things I Used To Do" (Guitar Slim), "Chapel Of Love" (the Dixie Cups)-all three of them records originated in NOLA and are classics, but you'd have to be stone deaf to call them "funky."
Hey, Chicago is known for its' ballads, but then where does that leave Alvin Cash?
Naw - I'm not saying everything out of NOLA has to be classified funk. I'm saying that I don't know how one can think of the term "funk" and NOT think of NOLA.
Though I'm confused - is there a lot of NOLA songs that do NOT get the "funk" nod? To me, NOLA and funk are synonymous.
They shouldn't be synonymous. New Orleans had variety, it's not like everything from that town had to represent the second line. "Sea Cruise" (Frankie Ford), "The Things I Used To Do" (Guitar Slim), "Chapel Of Love" (the Dixie Cups)-all three of them records originated in NOLA and are classics, but you'd have to be stone deaf to call them "funky."
Hey, Chicago is known for its' ballads, but then where does that leave Alvin Cash?
Naw - I'm not saying everything out of NOLA has to be classified funk. I'm saying that I don't know how one can think of the term "funk" and NOT think of NOLA.
Well, my two cents is that a lot of soul fans still think of New Orleans as an "oldies-but-goodies"/1950's rock & roll town (that is a horrible[/b] way to put it, but I gotta use it here). And they think the real heyday was from that time: Fats Domino, Joe Jones ("You Talk Too Much"), Ernie K-Doe ("Mother-In-Law"), Irma Thomas, Benny Spellman, Shirley & Lee, Tommy Ridgley, Huey Smith & the Clowns. The average rhythm & blues collector subconsciously thinks of Professor Longhair in terms of his fifties records, not that 1960's version of "Big Chief" that rare-groove fans all seem to love.
I think that's why that town's funk legacy has been overlooked, 'cause a lot of people forget that NOLA, thanks to Allen Toussaint and the Meters, moved into the soul/funk era like everybody else. If you have the What It Is box, seemingly a third of the songs originated from the Crescent City.
Comments
Ha - I think I've gone the other way. Since my daughter was born, my ceiling for spending has risen but mostly because I have even LESS time to find/buy stuff.
Wasn't "Hercules" on Mercury?
I think that's one reason why this song wasn't on the What It Is box, since that set tended to focus on tracks from the Warners and Atlantic archives, plus a few smaller labels. Mercury is neither small nor affiliated with Warner/Elektra/Atlantic, so naturally that bad boy was gonna be overlooked.
Ah, good point - for some reason, I thought it was on WB, but I'm confusing that with Cyril Neville's "Gossip". (That was WB, right?)
Oh word?
Yep. Significantly harder to find though.
Is it a white or red label, or both?
No, that was Josie, one of the smaller labels I alluded to. A subsidiary of J/G, in Philadelphia. Not exactly a private press, but not quite a conglomerate, either (and miraculously still in business). Somehow or another, a few stray J/G tracks wound up on What It Is, as well as labels smaller than that (like whatever company put out the House Guests' record).
Mine is on Josie...was Josie affiliated with WB?
edit - question answered
I want to say red only, but I don't know for sure.
Crazy, I've never even seen that before. Unfortunately, my only copy is from the Neville Bros. comp on Rhino (?).
*I put up a re-edit I did but just realized there's a skip towards the end
sorry
Yes. That's the issue version that had the pressing flaw, as far as I know.
How is it NOT funk might be the better question.
We've been down this road before, but it pains me to see peoples' definition of funk be so rigid to attempt to exclude much of early NOLA funk from the classification just because much of it toes the edge of being soul as well. Not every funk song has to either replicate James Brown or Parliament to be considered funk.
The bassline in Hercules is what primarily makes it a funk song. Sure, the song as a whole foreshadows a whole lot of Motown soul music that was to come after it...but a lot of that stuff, like much of the early 70's Temptations material, was funk as well.
The Isleys present probably the best example of a group that weaved in and out between genres of rock, funk, and soul. And It's Your Thing is definitely a funk song.
IMO so too is Hercules.
Ha - so the choice is between a raer styrene promo or a flawed commercial vinyl copy.
To address jesse's question: to me, "Hercules" fits into either funk or soul.
Though I'm confused - is there a lot of NOLA songs that do NOT get the "funk" nod? To me, NOLA and funk are synonymous. Who gets excluded?
Thanks for clarifying...I feel a bit dumb since I should know this better given my work on the boxset but I'm away from home and don't have the set in front of me.
it's an old mid 70's released polydor soul/funk comp on vinyl in the uk, i think to just kinda promote the label artists. i'll try and pull it out and get a clip up shortly, and unless my ears have always deceived me it's a different take or mix.
P.
"Toes the edge of being soul"?! LOL. Hercules is through and through a soul song. I would argue that it toes the edge of being a funk song. Anyway, Hercules is not exactly early NOLA funk (or soul). Didn't it come out in the early 70s? And me saying it's a stretch to consider one specific song funk is not exactly akin to me trying to write off the entire region's musical legacy as not being funky. You've got a wild and untamed imagination, I will say that.
I guess to me the notion of a funk "nod" seems a little odd. Is me saying Hercules is more of a soul song than a funk song perceived as slighting the quality of the music? Is soul considered too plain of a descriptor?
Not by all, but many exclude Professor Longhair's Big Chief and Smokey Johnson's It Ain't My Fault, among others. I might even go deeper and further back into time than that and try to include certain songs by Dave Bartholomew and Allen Toussaint that would quickly be dismissed by overzealous JB worshippers.
I know that Hercules isn't all that early in the game, but funk-wise to me it's not too far off from Chocolate Milk's Actions Speak Louder Than Words.
From what I've seen over the years, the holy funk trilogy usually includes Brown, the Meters and Clinton. Smokey Johnson may not be as famous as, say, Stubblefield, but that's hardly a snub considering how many drummers, in general, are unknown by the average funkateer.
Morever, I think the way things have moved has been to tie the roots of James Brown closer to the second line though, in that move, itd also tie the second line closer to Cuban music but that's another story/
They shouldn't be synonymous. New Orleans had variety, it's not like everything from that town had to represent the second line. "Sea Cruise" (Frankie Ford), "The Things I Used To Do" (Guitar Slim), "Chapel Of Love" (the Dixie Cups)-all three of them records originated in NOLA and are classics, but you'd have to be stone deaf to call them "funky."
Hey, Chicago is known for its' ballads, but then where does that leave Alvin Cash?
Naw - I'm not saying everything out of NOLA has to be classified funk. I'm saying that I don't know how one can think of the term "funk" and NOT think of NOLA.
He's originally from St. Louis.
Well, my two cents is that a lot of soul fans still think of New Orleans as an "oldies-but-goodies"/1950's rock & roll town (that is a horrible[/b] way to put it, but I gotta use it here). And they think the real heyday was from that time: Fats Domino, Joe Jones ("You Talk Too Much"), Ernie K-Doe ("Mother-In-Law"), Irma Thomas, Benny Spellman, Shirley & Lee, Tommy Ridgley, Huey Smith & the Clowns. The average rhythm & blues collector subconsciously thinks of Professor Longhair in terms of his fifties records, not that 1960's version of "Big Chief" that rare-groove fans all seem to love.
I think that's why that town's funk legacy has been overlooked, 'cause a lot of people forget that NOLA, thanks to Allen Toussaint and the Meters, moved into the soul/funk era like everybody else. If you have the What It Is box, seemingly a third of the songs originated from the Crescent City.