Monty, you are a really cool dood. If that was my music and a group with a number 1 pop hit was sampling my shit, there is no question that I would send them a legal notice and get my due. Why? because they are in that 5% of groups that can actually afford to pay for sample clearance.
There is a world of difference between Black Eyed Peas and about 95% of producers on a Stones Throw / DefJux / Lex (insert your favorite insert indi backpack label here) type level. Someone that big should at least giving a share on the publishing... I would fathom a guess that they paid producer X for a beat which was hooked up from your jawn... and that they don't even know how big the sample is, and would probably be quick to cover thier asses, as it is a pretty big / numerous part sample.
If someone were to shut me down with a big lawsuit over a sample, I would, in all honesty not be able to make music. I am a guy in a bedroom with a sampler on an indi label. But some cats on a major, with actual radio hits? In the grand scheme of what it takes to make records like those recoup, or paying a couple of G's as a gesture, in comparison to thier marketing campaign budget ?... or even paying a share of the publishing on a song where they are using your stuff... its a different ball game. A point on a record like that would probably end up with a healthy cheque for you at some point.
I really really respect you man. It is so refresing to see a dood out here, completely in touch with what is up, and not to be money grubbing like that... it is very obvious that you are a music lover. I would very seriously re-consider your stance on this one, and have Egon contact them on your behalf, just for curiousity's sake... it certainly couldn't hurt.
And thanks for popping my name out there, I wonder what I could do to that shit now! Heh.
hats off...very very noble attitude in this World of Bitches.
you set off an example to follow right here...i wash this thread could be printed in the next Scratch Magazine or something like that. Mr Wang, please...
heh... thanks -- that's the comrades bass line that i wrote and Phil Morrison played -- Sixtoo used it to great effect on
Testimony -- sounds like they played it?
i'm not going to sue anybody, but i might put a mp3 of it on my site
so...... i copped the CD
will.i.am evidently played the bass (compositionally, what's the diff?) BUT[/b] there is a 4 bar sample of my fuzz vibes used 5 times in the song!!!
i'm on record as not objecting to samples and i don't own anything anyway Stones Throw owns it and they don't pay for samples so they don't sue when sampled so, there you go
it sure would have been nice if BEP had given me a shout.... fuck it
i put a mp3 and a copy of the credits on my site
If you own the publishing on that song you deserve a cut. I've cleared many samples and unfortunately most artists don't want to give the producers any cut of the publishing. You should at least get 25-50% of the publishing on that record. BiG Yaper! BEP makes a shitload of money and I'm kinda shocked this wasn't taken care of.
nodbody here would object to you sueing the fug outta these dudes Monty. I mean not even a shout out???!?!?! I'd reccomend searching for past threads we've had here about these jokers, to get an idea of the general consensus about "BEP". Gopher it. Just sue.
whats the song name? all i see is the bep track on there. im talkin bout your song that they sampled. btw i agree with those who say get that money. donate it to charity or somethin if you must but get it out of those dudes hands.
As much as I hate Black Eyed Peas (seriously, I can't fucking stand them) I respect Monty's decision not to pursue legal recourse. I've never been involved in a lawsuit, but I imagine that it's a major pain in the ass, no matter what side of right you're on. Also, I think his attitude towards sampling is very forward-thinking and respectable, and it doesn't need to change just because BEP makes more money than Sixtoo.
whats the song name? all i see is the bep track on there. im talkin bout your song that they sampled. btw i agree with those who say get that money. donate it to charity or somethin if you must but get it out of those dudes hands.
it's the song right above: the one and only Comrades
if you download the Audio Delite mp3 you should see this description: bass line written by Monty Stark, played by Phil Morrison, originally for Hoagy Carmichael's Comrades, and the 4 bar fuzz vibe sample used 5 times here is also by Monty Stark
As much as I hate Black Eyed Peas (seriously, I can't fucking stand them) I respect Monty's decision not to pursue legal recourse. I've never been involved in a lawsuit, but I imagine that it's a major pain in the ass, no matter what side of right you're on. Also, I think his attitude towards sampling is very forward-thinking and respectable, and it doesn't need to change just because BEP makes more money than Sixtoo.
If Stones Throw own the publishing rights then legal action may not be straight forward. But I sincerely hope that Monty gets recognition for the Stark Reality: the Peas are taking that music to a new audience and they should publicly acknowledge the contribution and return the favour. All power to Stark Reality and to you, Monty- it shows that music resonates as strongly as ever 30 years later.
no disrespect to you, monty, but what are you doing selling your songs!!?!
let us know what egon has to say, you really should take some kind of action on this even if it means just being credited, recieving some kind of recording / mastering royalties...
Like someone said up on the thread, Stones Throw don't sue them maybe because their own artists don't clear samples!
I made an interview of Alain Mion from Cortex some monthes ago and for sure the guy was really upset with people who sample his shit! He sued a guy called Bob Sinclar who used one of his track some years ago.. and won.
So I scratched my head to know if I would tell him that Madlib used a big sample out of the "Troupeau Bleu" album.. and I finally shut my mouth because Egon is my man and I don't want to cause trouble to his label..
What you strut people would have done on the same case??
The song would be the same with or without those electric vibes. There's nothing special about that particular composition. They have the permission from Stones Throw. So Monty's SOL.
When I read this thread I came to the follwoing conclusion. You (Monty) should send him a letter from your lawyer. Fuck the samples of the electric vibes, thats the cherry on top but not the main thing.
You said they replayed your bassline. This means that you got publishing rights on that track they did. You got the right to get that so no one from the BEP would be pissed about that.
I work as a music journalist and I interviewed Will.I.Am 2 times and he is one of the nicest guys that I had to interveiw in more than 10 years now. He really loves music so there would be no problem with him about that topic. Dont know about there management but he personally would do anything to solve that problem.
Your goal should not be to end with them in front of the court, your goal should be a out of court settlement, as you said, to go on tour with them or to play some songs together with them. And here it is the same, I cant think of one reason why Will.I.Am wouldnt do that. He worked with Sergio Mendez so why shouldnt he work with you ???
Besides that, the sueing for publishing rights would have nothing to do with Stones Throw, so they would be out of the picture.
To make things clear for all the misunderstanding peeople her:
I'm not a great fan of there new music, but Will.I.Am got mad love for HipHop as you can see when you listen to his record "Must Be 21" on BBE Records and the BEP songs before this female singer became a part of BEP. Besides that, I prefer them on the charts more than I would like to have the Ying Yang twins there. And at the end, when I can TALK to a person about music instead of asking questions and trying to get something more out of an artist than "Naa-mean", "Na-m-sain", "Ya-knuw" I can apreciate that a little bit more than getting pissed of artist that dont wont to do interviews because they prefer to play domino with they homies or the next order at Mcdonalds is more important than the promotion for there own music where they make money out of it to pay Mcdonalds. A lot of artist are running around and saying there lable is not doing enough promo for them, OK but promo is more than paying ads, it is also how you interact with your audience at concerts and how do you interact with the people who work in the media. Will.I.Am is a professional and so he will handle this situation in a way that everybody is a winner at the end.
Love that Black Moses record.. a forgotten indie-classic from sweden, mid 90's if im not mistaking.. also listen to the track "going nowhere" (a beautiful hypnotic jazz mastercut...) while you still up on that site.. some real artistry.. nothing like BEP..
I had done the same, when I do interveiws I aks about sampling but I dont name trakcs or artists who sampled them. Most time they know about it anyway, but they dont move anything to do something about it. But I dont have to give them hints to any person who sampled them.
To be honest, the posting you did is enough, he must only google about himself and there he got the info.
It's the same with www.the-breaks.com. There is a lot of potential beef there, but no ones using it.
In germany, graffiti police task forces are surfing on websites that are connected to the graffiti scene to check out if someone is saying something about a big writer and naming connections or a clear name of those. Thats how ugly it can get to share informations on the web.
But anyway, at the end of the day, I'm not responisble for anybody exceppt my loved ones and myself. I'm trying to be carefull but I'm not perfect so if I'm giving out hints it is not done to hurt anybody.
I can understand producers who hate the-breaks.com but otherwise, the should stop sampling if they cant handle the consequences.
... just found out that the publisher just found out -- (a founding member of ASCAP) -- so, if anything legal is going to be done, i guess it will be done.
from a publishing standpoint, i was the arranger-for-hire who wrote the parts in question. so, i shouldn't have to get anything even if somebody has to pay.
(and Phil, the bass player, was just[/b] a musician)
... Its allways good to get payed, no doubt, but being sampled is a kind of unmaterialistic recognition that will make your music live on forever...(guess thats pretty kool too...
yeah, i just wish BEP would ask me to play keys on the road with them
Monty their studio is on the northeast corner of Glendale and Glenhurst in LA. The second floor. Next time you are in LA, knock on their door.
... just found out that the publisher just found out -- (a founding member of ASCAP) -- so, if anything legal is going to be done, i guess it will be done.
from a publishing standpoint, i was the arranger-for-hire who wrote the parts in question. so, i shouldn't have to get anything even if somebody has to pay.
(and Phil, the bass player, was just[/b] a musician)
... just found out that the publisher just found out -- (a founding member of ASCAP) -- so, if anything legal is going to be done, i guess it will be done.
from a publishing standpoint, i was the arranger-for-hire who wrote the parts in question. so, i shouldn't have to get anything even if somebody has to pay.
(and Phil, the bass player, was just[/b] a musician)
... the real world.
man....damn. Monty, you should at least get a credit!! Its basicly your record! I mean, I know hoagy carmicle probably has the writers credit and everything, but is that really how it works? Thats messed up. Seems like the whole music industry is designed to only keep like 5 people paid. The rest of us motherfuckers get to stay broke.
... Its allways good to get payed, no doubt, but being sampled is a kind of unmaterialistic recognition that will make your music live on forever...(guess thats pretty kool too...
yeah, i just wish BEP would ask me to play keys on the road with them
Monty their studio is on the northeast corner of Glendale and Glenhurst in LA. The second floor. Next time you are in LA, knock on their door.
man, i'm the world's worst door to door salesman.
i'm already old, and never ever in my life has anybody ever given me anything from me knocking on someone's door.
... Its allways good to get payed, no doubt, but being sampled is a kind of unmaterialistic recognition that will make your music live on forever...(guess thats pretty kool too...
yeah, i just wish BEP would ask me to play keys on the road with them
Monty their studio is on the northeast corner of Glendale and Glenhurst in LA. The second floor. Next time you are in LA, knock on their door.
man, i'm the world's worst door to door salesman.
i'm already old, and never ever in my life has anybody ever given me anything from me knocking on someone's door.
hey monty you should just leave it alone. you have mass talent bro so what if they stole it its not like they are putting out starks reality albums or anything i mean yea its a song but it would just go in the whole thing about getting sued for scratching a hickup ignore the media keep doin what you do and well keep lovin you CURT
Monty is dope. I wish more people thought like him. All this sample clearance bullshit has stifled musical development to a certain extent. People have always "stole" tunes and reworked them. I'm surprised to see such greedy attitudes at soulstrut (not really) If everybody sampled and got rich then there would be no problem. No hustle havin' muthafuckas. Get your own money.
Nobody thinks Stones Throw's already cashed in on the sample? LOL You never know.
Comments
Monty, you are a really cool dood. If that was my music and a group with a number 1 pop hit was sampling my shit, there is no question that I would send them a legal notice and get my due. Why? because they are in that 5% of groups that can actually afford to pay for sample clearance.
There is a world of difference between Black Eyed Peas and about 95% of producers on a Stones Throw / DefJux / Lex (insert your favorite insert indi backpack label here) type level. Someone that big should at least giving a share on the publishing... I would fathom a guess that they paid producer X for a beat which was hooked up from your jawn... and that they don't even know how big the sample is, and would probably be quick to cover thier asses, as it is a pretty big / numerous part sample.
If someone were to shut me down with a big lawsuit over a sample, I would, in all honesty not be able to make music. I am a guy in a bedroom with a sampler on an indi label. But some cats on a major, with actual radio hits? In the grand scheme of what it takes to make records like those recoup, or paying a couple of G's as a gesture, in comparison to thier marketing campaign budget ?... or even paying a share of the publishing on a song where they are using your stuff... its a different ball game. A point on a record like that would probably end up with a healthy cheque for you at some point.
I really really respect you man. It is so refresing to see a dood out here, completely in touch with what is up, and not to be money grubbing like that... it is very obvious that you are a music lover. I would very seriously re-consider your stance on this one, and have Egon contact them on your behalf, just for curiousity's sake... it certainly couldn't hurt.
And thanks for popping my name out there, I wonder what I could do to that shit now!
Heh.
Peace sir.
Sixtoo.
bless you, Six
uhm... don't ask me how i know that.
You are awesome.
-Anna
PRODUCERS ALWAYS LIE?
you set off an example to follow right here...i wash this thread could be printed in the next Scratch Magazine or something like that. Mr Wang, please...
If you own the publishing on that song you deserve a cut. I've cleared many samples and unfortunately most artists don't want to give the producers any cut of the publishing. You should at least get 25-50% of the publishing on that record. BiG Yaper! BEP makes a shitload of money and I'm kinda shocked this wasn't taken care of.
whats the song name? all i see is the bep track on there. im talkin bout your song that they sampled. btw i agree with those who say get that money. donate it to charity or somethin if you must but get it out of those dudes hands.
it's the song right above: the one and only Comrades
if you download the Audio Delite mp3 you should see this description: bass line written by Monty Stark, played by Phil Morrison, originally for Hoagy Carmichael's Comrades, and the 4 bar fuzz vibe sample used 5 times here is also by Monty Stark
If Stones Throw own the publishing rights then legal action may not be straight forward. But I sincerely hope that Monty gets recognition for the Stark Reality: the Peas are taking that music to a new audience and they should publicly acknowledge the contribution and return the favour. All power to Stark Reality and to you, Monty- it shows that music resonates as strongly as ever 30 years later.
let us know what egon has to say, you really should take some kind of action on this even if it means just being credited, recieving some kind of recording / mastering royalties...
I made an interview of Alain Mion from Cortex some monthes ago and for sure the guy was really upset with people who sample his shit! He sued a guy called Bob Sinclar who used one of his track some years ago.. and won.
So I scratched my head to know if I would tell him that Madlib used a big sample out of the "Troupeau Bleu" album.. and I finally shut my mouth because Egon is my man and I don't want to cause trouble to his label..
What you strut people would have done on the same case??
The song would be the same with or without those electric vibes. There's nothing special about that particular composition. They have the permission from Stones Throw. So Monty's SOL.
You said they replayed your bassline. This means that you got publishing rights on that track they did. You got the right to get that so no one from the BEP would be pissed about that.
I work as a music journalist and I interviewed Will.I.Am 2 times and he is one of the nicest guys that I had to interveiw in more than 10 years now. He really loves music so there would be no problem with him about that topic. Dont know about there management but he personally would do anything to solve that problem.
Your goal should not be to end with them in front of the court, your goal should be a out of court settlement, as you said, to go on tour with them or to play some songs together with them.
And here it is the same, I cant think of one reason why Will.I.Am wouldnt do that. He worked with Sergio Mendez so why shouldnt he work with you ???
Besides that, the sueing for publishing rights would have nothing to do with Stones Throw, so they would be out of the picture.
To make things clear for all the misunderstanding peeople her:
I'm not a great fan of there new music, but Will.I.Am got mad love for HipHop as you can see when you listen to his record "Must Be 21" on BBE Records and the BEP songs before this female singer became a part of BEP.
Besides that, I prefer them on the charts more than I would like to have the Ying Yang twins there. And at the end, when I can TALK to a person about music instead of asking questions and trying to get something more out of an artist than "Naa-mean", "Na-m-sain", "Ya-knuw" I can apreciate that a little bit more than getting pissed of artist that dont wont to do interviews because they prefer to play domino with they homies or the next order at Mcdonalds is more important than the promotion for there own music where they make money out of it to pay Mcdonalds. A lot of artist are running around and saying there lable is not doing enough promo for them, OK but promo is more than paying ads, it is also how you interact with your audience at concerts and how do you interact with the people who work in the media. Will.I.Am is a professional and so he will handle this situation in a way that everybody is a winner at the end.
Peace
Hawkeye
http://www.the-breaks.com/perl/artist.pl?id=1716
If you would like to listen to that Black Moses cut "Oh god" that also uses this sample, check:
http://stage.vitaminic.co.uk/main/black_moses/singles/
Love that Black Moses record.. a forgotten indie-classic from sweden, mid 90's if im not mistaking.. also listen to the track "going nowhere" (a beautiful hypnotic jazz mastercut...) while you still up on that site.. some real artistry.. nothing like BEP..
I had done the same, when I do interveiws I aks about sampling but I dont name trakcs or artists who sampled them. Most time they know about it anyway, but they dont move anything to do something about it. But I dont have to give them hints to any person who sampled them.
To be honest, the posting you did is enough, he must only google about himself and there he got the info.
It's the same with www.the-breaks.com. There is a lot of potential beef there, but no ones using it.
In germany, graffiti police task forces are surfing on websites that are connected to the graffiti scene to check out if someone is saying something about a big writer and naming connections or a clear name of those. Thats how ugly it can get to share informations on the web.
But anyway, at the end of the day, I'm not responisble for anybody exceppt my loved ones and myself. I'm trying to be carefull but I'm not perfect so if I'm giving out hints it is not done to hurt anybody.
I can understand producers who hate the-breaks.com but otherwise, the should stop sampling if they cant handle the consequences.
Peace
Hawkeye
from a publishing standpoint, i was the arranger-for-hire who wrote the parts in question. so, i shouldn't have to get anything even if somebody has to pay.
(and Phil, the bass player, was just[/b] a musician)
... the real world.
Monty their studio is on the northeast corner of Glendale and Glenhurst in LA. The second floor. Next time you are in LA, knock on their door.
A bunch of weasels.
man....damn. Monty, you should at least get a credit!! Its basicly your record! I mean, I know hoagy carmicle probably has the writers credit and everything, but is that really how it works? Thats messed up. Seems like the whole music industry is designed to only keep like 5 people paid. The rest of us motherfuckers get to stay broke.
man, i'm the world's worst door to door salesman.
i'm already old, and never ever in my life has anybody ever given me anything from me knocking on someone's door.
my bad
Monty, do what YOU feel is right.
hahahaha... NOTHING (except stay at home and make living music that may prepare me to bother to record in the future)
the stark reality of stark reality.
CURT
Nobody thinks Stones Throw's already cashed in on the sample? LOL You never know.