in the sense that it's probably poorly researched definitely poorly written. The TREND IS DEAD ARTICLE is boring and reactionary. It is usually evoked by people who aren't resourceful enough to cover actual trends as they happen.
And Clyde Carson has one (???) dropping this year. The Dre produced single has been out for a few months actually.
yeah but he seems to have abandoned the hyphy sound for the game-lite aesthetic.
Are you saying that Liu's article is basically wrong, on a factual level?
(Note: I'm not contesting your claim but I'm wondering if you dislike her writing or if you think her entire premise is off).
in what sense?
in the sense that it's probably poorly researched definitely poorly written. The TREND IS DEAD ARTICLE is boring and reactionary. It is usually evoked by people who aren't resourceful enough to cover actual trends as they happen.
And Clyde Carson has one (???) dropping this year. The Dre produced single has been out for a few months actually.
yeah but he seems to have abandoned the hyphy sound for the game-lite aesthetic.
in the sense that it's probably poorly researched definitely poorly written. The TREND IS DEAD ARTICLE is boring and reactionary. It is usually evoked by people who aren't resourceful enough to cover actual trends as they happen.
And Clyde Carson has one (???) dropping this year. The Dre produced single has been out for a few months actually.
yeah but he seems to have abandoned the hyphy sound for the game-lite aesthetic.
Yes poorly researched. Asking "hyphy" artists themselves (FAB, Rick Rock, and Keek), industry folks like Wendy Day ,the director of KMEL and even fellow carpet bloggeur Jazzbo Patel are all obvious signs of a poorly researched article. I mean it's the San Jose times, a real paper! There not even on somanyshrimp's radar!
game-lite= wider appeal=breaking out of fanboy private mind gardena
my 2 cents:
I was out on Friday night and the crowd seemed to still love the "hyphy" music. It's not dead in terms of people liking it but maybe it's dead as it being this movement that would break dudes out just the local area.
Yes poorly researched. Asking "hyphy" artists themselves (FAB, Rick Rock, and Keek), industry folks like Wendy Day ,the director of KMEL and even fellow carpet bloggeur Jazzbo Patel are all obvious signs of a poorly researched article. I mean it's the San Jose times, a real paper! There not even on somanyshrimp's radar!
I take this to mean you're close personal friends with the authro? Perhaps more than that?
Poorly researched admittedly wasn't the best choice of words, but I do feel like the author is inferring a lot. Some of the local subjects seem to be saying "hyphy is changing" and not "hyphy is dead." and the industry types conviently neglect to mention their own involvement in the genre's lack of success (ie: the federation album being completed and on the shelf for the past 12 months)
PS: Get off my blog's dick. I am in the midsts of real world moves that you couldn't begin to comprehend, not even while djing for seven people in taipei.
Yes poorly researched. Asking "hyphy" artists themselves (FAB, Rick Rock, and Keek), industry folks like Wendy Day ,the director of KMEL and even fellow carpet bloggeur Jazzbo Patel are all obvious signs of a poorly researched article. I mean it's the San Jose times, a real paper! There not even on somanyshrimp's radar!
I take this to mean you're close personal friends with the authro[/b]? Perhaps more than that?
Yes poorly researched. Asking "hyphy" artists themselves (FAB, Rick Rock, and Keek), industry folks like Wendy Day ,the director of KMEL and even fellow carpet bloggeur Jazzbo Patel are all obvious signs of a poorly researched article. I mean it's the San Jose times, a real paper! There not even on somanyshrimp's radar!
I take this to mean you're close personal friends with the authro? Perhaps more than that?
Poorly researched admittedly wasn't the best choice of words, but I do feel like the author is inferring a lot. Some of the local subjects seem to be saying "hyphy is changing" and not "hyphy is dead." and the industry types conviently neglect to mention their own involvement in the genre's lack of success (ie: the federation album being completed and on the shelf for the past 12 months)
PS: Get off my blog's dick. I am in the midsts of real world moves that you couldn't begin to comprehend, not even while djing for seven people in taipei.
I think FAB, one of the biggest local dudes, saying "people are over hyphy" is a pretty bold admission. It would be like me saying "deejaying.....it's pretty lame and not that big of a deal, just rock a IPOD and you'll be just as good"
I'm not "close personal friends" with Marian though she is a former student and personally, I admire any local writer willing to work a hip hop beat for a daily newspaper. I think your more in-depth critique makes good sense - sure, a proclamation like "hyphy is dead" is bound to sound rather sensationalist (and alas, this is all too common in media as I'm sure you well know). But blanket swiping her article as "terrible research and writing" just strikes me as hastily shooting from the hip. she's not my favorite writer but I respect her work ethic and hustle and I think both are displayed here.
I think FAB, one of the biggest local dudes, saying "people are over hyphy" is a pretty bold admission. It would be like me saying "deejaying.....it's pretty lame and not that big of a deal, just rock a IPOD and you'll be just as good"
Well I think it's important to consider that FAB's always tried hard to position himself as a more than hyphy artist. He probably sees now as a good time to jump ship. Keak only admits his own business was not right, and Young L only "concedes" to hyphy not being hot.
and you sound real mad right now, Sir Nozzle.
I sound mad? Is this a thread about hyphy or bloggers? Because you've been ranting nonsensically about the later from the jump and saying very little about the former.
Except that, in your club, hyphy is still hot. Which would only support my point.
But blanket swiping her article as "terrible research and writing" just strikes me as hastily shooting from the hip.
I would expect you of all people to be familiar with bloggerific hyperbole.
Another thing about this piece - it neglects to account for the fact that ALL hip hop is sort of flopping right now. Almost all the scenes it name drops as local successes are also floundering commerically. In fact you could probably turn it into a fairly accurate Houston rap article by merely changing a few proper nouns.
dudes like clyde carson and FAB have been making different sounding stuff for quite a while...it's not like cats heard the game album and said "oh we should do that"....
who has the inside scoop on Keak's ill-advised, allegedly crack-induced decline of a major label offer?
Has nothing to do with crack and everything to do with the sort of awful "Bay Bidness" described in this thread and in that article. I EASILY could have made twice as much money last year if all of these retarded Bay rapper didn't sign everything put in front of them.
That said, look out for E40's The Ball Street Journal dropping real soon and for crying out loud please PLEASE people support good independent rap music and seek out Turf Talk's West Coast Vaccine when it drops.
dudes like clyde carson and FAB have been making different sounding stuff for quite a while...it's not like cats heard the game album and said "oh we should do that"....
All these dudes have been saying hyphy is wack for awhile. They were just runnin with it to keep records runnin on KMEL.
Hyphy is just a catch phrase when it comes down to it, and if hyphy blowing up means shit like "Ghost Ride It" by F.A.B. then you can't kill it fast enough. I think the real issue with the article is that it makes things sound like the Bay Area rap sound is dead, which it certainly isn't. Yes, there are absurd distribution & label problems that are very typical of all (You can live here and have a real hard time finding the music in the real world, especially on wax) but there is still lots dope music coming out. And nearly everyone in Northern California digs hyphy stuff, even people who don't like rap, and I've heard stories about people from other countries going banannas for it.
All that said, it is really unfortunate to hear big names in the scene say that they feel its dead, mainly because they've become so disenchanted with distribution and label issues. If only someone had stepped up to the plate with a solidly put together independent label and been aggressive about signing artists and marketing, I honestly don't think we would be having this conversation.
I think the real issue with the article is that it makes things sound like the Bay Area rap sound is dead, which it certainly isn't.
The article doesn't remotely say this at all. Did you read the last section? No one thinks Bay Area rap is dead. They think "hyphy" - however you want to define it - is over.
dudes like clyde carson and FAB have been making different sounding stuff for quite a while...it's not like cats heard the game album and said "oh we should do that"....
Also, while I didn't start hearing the team and carson and them until around the time of the hyphy movement (disconnected!) I knew FAB was making tracks back when I still lived in CA, circa 02-03. Dude was a freestyle champ and had tapes out back then. Even though he went on to make some hyphy music or whatever it's not like he was born out of that movement.
Seems like the main accomplishment of the movement was to get stuff played on KMEL where Big Von was about the only one lobbying for local artists to get played... preceding all of that EA Ski gave the station an ultimatum to play more local artists... that coincided with the movement and it worked to the benefit of Bay artists.
What with the "death" of hyphy are local artists getting less play now?
I enjoyed reading it. Yes, the genre of articles that deal with the failure of genres are genre-ly a bit cliched etc.. but i was interested in hyphy, and I still am, probably cause I'm still clueless about what it is..
I think the bottom line is - regardless of the local scene, you have to have global export value if you're in it for the millions. The 808-electro trunk rattling sound of the south still rattles trunks and clubs over here, and from here to bangkok and beyond I'm sure.. It's as accessible as Frankie Goes To Hollywood with a sniff of Mantronix.
however, I think most people outside of the states (or indeed the bay) couldn't identify a hyphy record if they tried. "hey, he just said grapes.. what's that slang for?".. "haven't a fuckin clue". it was never going to be a global revolution.
Since the 1980s, the Bay Area has been a breeding ground for a thriving underground rap music scene. But while Oakland, Vallejo and Richmond have produced nationally known rappers like Too , E-40 and Master P, San Francisco's track record has been marred by tragedy, violence and legal problems.
Known as Sucka Free City in the rap world, San Francisco has no shortage of rappers or independent labels. However, its artists' close ties to the inner city -- and, by extension, the tribulations of the ghetto -- may be one reason it has produced a scant number of big-name acts.
"It's so much pressure on somebody out here to blow up on a national scale," says filmmaker Kevin Epps, director of "Rap Dreams" (2006), a documentary about rappers trying to break into the industry. "The city has had a sense of modest success in the bay, but when you think of national (success), it hasn't really had that."
It seems every time a San Francisco rapper is ready to break out of the regional niche, something bad happens.
"That's stagnated my career for so long," says Messy Marv. "It's like these majors, they're scared to deal with us, man. Right when we about to blow, something negative jumps off."
Raised on Eddy Street in the heart of the Fillmore district, Messy, as he's known to fans, is perhaps the best known rapper in San Francisco. He's considered by some to be the hottest rapper in the area, above even E-40, Mistah F.A.B. and Keak Da Sneak, and has spent the better part of a decade making a name for himself.
Long a part of the local indie scene, he has sold hundreds of thousands of units on solo and group efforts. "Explosive Mode," his 1998 collaboration with San Quinn, is recognized as a Bay Area classic, as is his 2004 solo album, "Disobayish." Though he's not generally considered a hyphy rapper, he scored a commercial radio hit with 2005's "Get On My Hype." Last year alone, he put out eight albums by his own estimation, and, in addition to a partnership with SMC Recordings (a big backer of local rappers that sold 300,000 units and reported sales of $3 million in 2006), he's set up his own label, Scalen, as a gateway for emerging talent.
Messy has high hopes for his most recent project, the two-volume "Fillmoe Nation" compilation. Intended to foster peace on the streets and create opportunities for young people in two Western Addition neighborhoods embroiled in a violent turf war ("Uptown" and "Downtown"), the compilation features up-and-coming artists from each 'hood. In addition, a portion of proceeds from record sales will be donated to two cash-strapped community centers -- Uptown's Hamilton and Downtown's Ella Hill Hutch -- for youth development programs.
The compilation hit stores late last month, but Messy hasn't been able to be as hands-on with the project as he would have liked. Several weeks before its release, Messy was again arrested with an unlicensed automatic weapon in the trunk of his car. Evidently, there are consequences to being "draped up and chipped out," to paraphrase the title of one of the rapper's albums.
Speaking by phone from a jail -- he declines to disclose his location, for safety reasons -- Messy Marv admits he was driving around with a weapon in his trunk, but says it was for his "protection," not because he was actively gang-banging or intended to retaliate against someone.
"Dealing with the society that we are living in today, man, it's like, you'd rather be caught with than without," he says. "You can see the crime rate in San Francisco, you can see the crime rate in Oakland. Actually, all across the Bay Area, man." In his case, "It was one of those situations where I drive around in my $70,000 car, and I'm out here with the people, man. I'm not out here using excessive force with a firearm, jumping out, doing crazy s -- ."
The way Messy sees it, he's "one of the good ones" who happens to also be "a product of his society." Growing up in the inner city, "when you're successful -- whether you're a rapper or you work a good nine-to-five -- and you have things, you become a target," he says. Even though he has friends in both Uptown and Downtown, he could easily become a turf war casualty, he says, for the simple fact that he's from Eddy Street's notorious Marcus Garvey housing projects.
What's going on in the Western Addition is "real serious," he says. "People that grew up together are divided in two now. Basically, man, it's like nothing for these kids to do" but crime. "They base your whole future around your rap sheet. Most of these kids out here, man, (are) poverty-stricken ... They're doing dirt, then they're going to jail. When they finally do wanna get a job or fill out an application, you know, they get turned down. I don't have the answers to that."
Exactly who does is a good question. Epps -- whose first film, "Straight Outta Hunters Point," documented a turf war between two rival gangs -- says ghetto violence is "tied to economics, like any other thing." Just as in Hunters Point, what's happening in the Western Addition is "a situation where hopelessness sets in ... young dudes are living fast, dying hard."
Messy Marv may not be able to change that reality by himself, but he feels he's done his part by spearheading "Fillmoe Nation" and "showing the community there is a window of opportunity for them, as far as I'm concerned. I took it upon myself to try to turn a negative situation into something positive, now that I have position in this music industry."
Epps says rap represents "a way out for n -- that don't want to sell drugs and pull pistols." He says that Messy's considered "one of the realest in the game," whose influence "can reach a lot of cats that's hard to reach."
But instead of promoting his album, Messy will spend the next nine months behind bars. (At first, says SMC's Will Bronson, the rapper was facing 10 years; the relatively short sentence, he claims, is proof the judicial system believes "he's not a career criminal.")
According to Bronson, Messy's work ethic is such that he doesn't have time for extracurricular activities. "Every time I call him, he's in the studio," Bronson says, adding that the rapper has put out four albums this year and has at least three more scheduled for 2007.
Even so, the company he keeps has gotten Messy into trouble on at least one previous occasion; in 2000, he was riding in a car in Kansas City with local rapper Fat Tone, Sacramento's C-Bo and Vallejo's Mac Dre when an unknown vehicle opened fire, wounding Fat Tone. (Fat Tone was later implicated in the 2004 murder of Mac Dre, and was himself slain in 2005 in what police have called a retaliation killing.)
As Epps explains, street credibility means everything in the rap game. With gangster rap especially, listeners want to know, "is this n -- real, where's he coming from?" When your entire persona is based on being in the streets, he says, "you can't just cut the cord" and remove yourself from the community altogether.
For his part, Messy's well aware that his run-ins with the law haven't helped his chances of scoring a major-label contract. However, he says, "You have to understand that we're human beings, man, and you can't blame a person for being a product of their society." He's thankful to SMC and its distributor, Fontana/Universal, "for giving us an outlet to even stay out here and provide a way to feed our families."
But frustration is evident in his voice as he talks about the state of San Francisco's rap scene. "It's like, damn, when is somebody gonna give us a chance to reach that plateau so we can really start reaching out to the people in
the community and start turning this s -- into something positive?" Cloud of violence, trouble hovers over S.F. rap scene
Messy Marv's recent arrest is only the latest in a series of pitfalls, dating back over a decade, that have plagued the San Francisco rap scene and limited its progress.
1994: After a shooting during a rap showcase at the 1994 Gavin Convention -- a now-defunct annual event that once brought music industry bigwigs to the city -- the convention relocates to Atlanta, effectively severing the region's access to major-label executives and their potentially lucrative record deals.
1995: Rappin' 4-Tay -- who appeared on platinum records by Too and Tupac Shakur and scored a major national hit with 1994's "Player's Club" -- is arrested on domestic violence charges. His career since has been continually derailed by stints in prison.
1996: On New Year's Day, Hunters Point rapper Mr. Cee of RBL Posse is slain in a still-unsolved drive-by shooting. The group -- which sold more than 100,000 units of their 1991 single "Don't Give Me No Bammer Weed" and moved 200,000 units of 1994's "Ruthless by Law" -- never recovered. Despite signing a deal with Atlantic/Big Beat, 1997's "An Eye For an Eye" was a commercial and critical flop, while 2001's "Hostile Takeover" barely made a ripple in the music industry.
2001: Cougnut of Bayview's I.M.P., which at one time was compared to N.W.A., dies in a car crash. His loss sends a chilling ripple through the city's rap scene, and the group disbands.
2001: RBL affiliate Hitman, whose 1995 album "Solo Creep" reportedly sold more than 100,000 units, is killed in an apparent gang-related slaying in Hunters Point.
2002: Big Block Records owner Douglas "Boobie" Stepney, the alleged leader of the Big Block gang and a former associate of RBL Posse, is arrested as a result of a joint task force operation involving the FBI and the San Francisco Police Department investigating gang-related murders in Hunters Point.
2005: Messy Marv is arrested on weapons possession charges after being pulled over by police on his way to a photo shoot for XXL magazine (which could have resulted in national exposure and/or a major label deal).
2005: Messy Marv is arrested on weapons possession charges after being pulled over by police on his way to a photo shoot for XXL magazine (which could have resulted in national exposure and/or a major label deal).
haha "if only you guys could see his face! you'd sign him for sure."
Comments
in what sense?
And Clyde Carson has one (???) dropping this year. The Dre produced single has been out for a few months actually.
Yeah man I got Dre on the beats. Naw not Dr.....Naw not the Cool N' Dre either, but yeah....DRE!
haha i would be supremely disappointed if that future podcast has no madd rappers on it
AYO I'LL TELL U WHY I'M MADD SON!
in the sense that it's probably poorly researched definitely poorly written. The TREND IS DEAD ARTICLE is boring and reactionary. It is usually evoked by people who aren't resourceful enough to cover actual trends as they happen.
yeah but he seems to have abandoned the hyphy sound for the game-lite aesthetic.
(Note: I'm not contesting your claim but I'm wondering if you dislike her writing or if you think her entire premise is off).
No I do think her premise has merit, I just don't think it was executed very well.
Yes poorly researched. Asking "hyphy" artists themselves (FAB, Rick Rock, and Keek), industry folks like Wendy Day ,the director of KMEL and even fellow carpet bloggeur Jazzbo Patel are all obvious signs of a poorly researched article. I mean it's the San Jose times, a real paper! There not even on somanyshrimp's radar!
game-lite= wider appeal=breaking out of fanboy private mind gardena
my 2 cents:
I was out on Friday night and the crowd seemed to still love the "hyphy" music. It's not dead in terms of people liking it but maybe it's dead as it being this movement that would break dudes out just the local area.
I take this to mean you're close personal friends with the authro? Perhaps more than that?
Poorly researched admittedly wasn't the best choice of words, but I do feel like the author is inferring a lot. Some of the local subjects seem to be saying "hyphy is changing" and not "hyphy is dead." and the industry types conviently neglect to mention their own involvement in the genre's lack of success (ie: the federation album being completed and on the shelf for the past 12 months)
PS: Get off my blog's dick. I am in the midsts of real world moves that you couldn't begin to comprehend, not even while djing for seven people in taipei.
"I guess I am simply a great authro"
I think FAB, one of the biggest local dudes, saying "people are over hyphy" is a pretty bold admission. It would be like me saying "deejaying.....it's pretty lame and not that big of a deal, just rock a IPOD and you'll be just as good"
and you sound real mad right now, Sir Nozzle.
There's a podcast of the phone calls made to the "HYPHY HOTLINE". Maybe you should call Noz and turn it into a loveline instead. Spring is in the air, you know that means.
I'm not "close personal friends" with Marian though she is a former student and personally, I admire any local writer willing to work a hip hop beat for a daily newspaper. I think your more in-depth critique makes good sense - sure, a proclamation like "hyphy is dead" is bound to sound rather sensationalist (and alas, this is all too common in media as I'm sure you well know). But blanket swiping her article as "terrible research and writing" just strikes me as hastily shooting from the hip. she's not my favorite writer but I respect her work ethic and hustle and I think both are displayed here.
Well I think it's important to consider that FAB's always tried hard to position himself as a more than hyphy artist. He probably sees now as a good time to jump ship. Keak only admits his own business was not right, and Young L only "concedes" to hyphy not being hot.
I sound mad? Is this a thread about hyphy or bloggers? Because you've been ranting nonsensically about the later from the jump and saying very little about the former.
Except that, in your club, hyphy is still hot. Which would only support my point.
I would expect you of all people to be familiar with bloggerific hyperbole.
Another thing about this piece - it neglects to account for the fact that ALL hip hop is sort of flopping right now. Almost all the scenes it name drops as local successes are also floundering commerically. In fact you could probably turn it into a fairly accurate Houston rap article by merely changing a few proper nouns.
some of youz need to smoke a 40, drink a blunt and move to fresno.
but you sir, are to be taken quite serial
Has nothing to do with crack and everything to do with the sort of awful "Bay Bidness" described in this thread and in that article. I EASILY could have made twice as much money last year if all of these retarded Bay rapper didn't sign everything put in front of them.
That said, look out for E40's The Ball Street Journal dropping real soon and for crying out loud please PLEASE people support good independent rap music and seek out Turf Talk's West Coast Vaccine when it drops.
All these dudes have been saying hyphy is wack for awhile. They were just runnin with it to keep records runnin on KMEL.
All that said, it is really unfortunate to hear big names in the scene say that they feel its dead, mainly because they've become so disenchanted with distribution and label issues. If only someone had stepped up to the plate with a solidly put together independent label and been aggressive about signing artists and marketing, I honestly don't think we would be having this conversation.
Hyphy dead? Unlikely. Stagnent? Perhaps.. (same difference?)
The production credit on the 12" label says Ron "Neff-U" Feemster. IMHO, "2 Step" is a pretty hot, and decidedly NON hyphy, single.
The article doesn't remotely say this at all. Did you read the last section? No one thinks Bay Area rap is dead. They think "hyphy" - however you want to define it - is over.
Also, while I didn't start hearing the team and carson and them until around the time of the hyphy movement (disconnected!) I knew FAB was making tracks back when I still lived in CA, circa 02-03. Dude was a freestyle champ and had tapes out back then. Even though he went on to make some hyphy music or whatever it's not like he was born out of that movement.
Seems like the main accomplishment of the movement was to get stuff played on KMEL where Big Von was about the only one lobbying for local artists to get played... preceding all of that EA Ski gave the station an ultimatum to play more local artists... that coincided with the movement and it worked to the benefit of Bay artists.
What with the "death" of hyphy are local artists getting less play now?
I think the bottom line is - regardless of the local scene, you have to have global export value if you're in it for the millions. The 808-electro trunk rattling sound of the south still rattles trunks and clubs over here, and from here to bangkok and beyond I'm sure.. It's as accessible as Frankie Goes To Hollywood with a sniff of Mantronix.
however, I think most people outside of the states (or indeed the bay) couldn't identify a hyphy record if they tried. "hey, he just said grapes.. what's that slang for?".. "haven't a fuckin clue". it was never going to be a global revolution.
unlike sirens by dizzee rascal
respect all of ye.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/15/DDG47PPKBT1.DTL
For S.F. rappers, another dream deferred[/b]
Since the 1980s, the Bay Area has been a breeding ground for a thriving underground rap music scene. But while Oakland, Vallejo and Richmond have produced nationally known rappers like Too , E-40 and Master P, San Francisco's track record has been marred by tragedy, violence and legal problems.
Known as Sucka Free City in the rap world, San Francisco has no shortage of rappers or independent labels. However, its artists' close ties to the inner city -- and, by extension, the tribulations of the ghetto -- may be one reason it has produced a scant number of big-name acts.
"It's so much pressure on somebody out here to blow up on a national scale," says filmmaker Kevin Epps, director of "Rap Dreams" (2006), a documentary about rappers trying to break into the industry. "The city has had a sense of modest success in the bay, but when you think of national (success), it hasn't really had that."
It seems every time a San Francisco rapper is ready to break out of the regional niche, something bad happens.
"That's stagnated my career for so long," says Messy Marv. "It's like these majors, they're scared to deal with us, man. Right when we about to blow, something negative jumps off."
Raised on Eddy Street in the heart of the Fillmore district, Messy, as he's known to fans, is perhaps the best known rapper in San Francisco. He's considered by some to be the hottest rapper in the area, above even E-40, Mistah F.A.B. and Keak Da Sneak, and has spent the better part of a decade making a name for himself.
Long a part of the local indie scene, he has sold hundreds of thousands of units on solo and group efforts. "Explosive Mode," his 1998 collaboration with San Quinn, is recognized as a Bay Area classic, as is his 2004 solo album, "Disobayish." Though he's not generally considered a hyphy rapper, he scored a commercial radio hit with 2005's "Get On My Hype." Last year alone, he put out eight albums by his own estimation, and, in addition to a partnership with SMC Recordings (a big backer of local rappers that sold 300,000 units and reported sales of $3 million in 2006), he's set up his own label, Scalen, as a gateway for emerging talent.
Messy has high hopes for his most recent project, the two-volume "Fillmoe Nation" compilation. Intended to foster peace on the streets and create opportunities for young people in two Western Addition neighborhoods embroiled in a violent turf war ("Uptown" and "Downtown"), the compilation features up-and-coming artists from each 'hood. In addition, a portion of proceeds from record sales will be donated to two cash-strapped community centers -- Uptown's Hamilton and Downtown's Ella Hill Hutch -- for youth development programs.
The compilation hit stores late last month, but Messy hasn't been able to be as hands-on with the project as he would have liked. Several weeks before its release, Messy was again arrested with an unlicensed automatic weapon in the trunk of his car. Evidently, there are consequences to being "draped up and chipped out," to paraphrase the title of one of the rapper's albums.
Speaking by phone from a jail -- he declines to disclose his location, for safety reasons -- Messy Marv admits he was driving around with a weapon in his trunk, but says it was for his "protection," not because he was actively gang-banging or intended to retaliate against someone.
"Dealing with the society that we are living in today, man, it's like, you'd rather be caught with than without," he says. "You can see the crime rate in San Francisco, you can see the crime rate in Oakland. Actually, all across the Bay Area, man." In his case, "It was one of those situations where I drive around in my $70,000 car, and I'm out here with the people, man. I'm not out here using excessive force with a firearm, jumping out, doing crazy s -- ."
The way Messy sees it, he's "one of the good ones" who happens to also be "a product of his society." Growing up in the inner city, "when you're successful -- whether you're a rapper or you work a good nine-to-five -- and you have things, you become a target," he says. Even though he has friends in both Uptown and Downtown, he could easily become a turf war casualty, he says, for the simple fact that he's from Eddy Street's notorious Marcus Garvey housing projects.
What's going on in the Western Addition is "real serious," he says. "People that grew up together are divided in two now. Basically, man, it's like nothing for these kids to do" but crime. "They base your whole future around your rap sheet. Most of these kids out here, man, (are) poverty-stricken ... They're doing dirt, then they're going to jail. When they finally do wanna get a job or fill out an application, you know, they get turned down. I don't have the answers to that."
Exactly who does is a good question. Epps -- whose first film, "Straight Outta Hunters Point," documented a turf war between two rival gangs -- says ghetto violence is "tied to economics, like any other thing." Just as in Hunters Point, what's happening in the Western Addition is "a situation where hopelessness sets in ... young dudes are living fast, dying hard."
Messy Marv may not be able to change that reality by himself, but he feels he's done his part by spearheading "Fillmoe Nation" and "showing the community there is a window of opportunity for them, as far as I'm concerned. I took it upon myself to try to turn a negative situation into something positive, now that I have position in this music industry."
Epps says rap represents "a way out for n -- that don't want to sell drugs and pull pistols." He says that Messy's considered "one of the realest in the game," whose influence "can reach a lot of cats that's hard to reach."
But instead of promoting his album, Messy will spend the next nine months behind bars. (At first, says SMC's Will Bronson, the rapper was facing 10 years; the relatively short sentence, he claims, is proof the judicial system believes "he's not a career criminal.")
According to Bronson, Messy's work ethic is such that he doesn't have time for extracurricular activities. "Every time I call him, he's in the studio," Bronson says, adding that the rapper has put out four albums this year and has at least three more scheduled for 2007.
Even so, the company he keeps has gotten Messy into trouble on at least one previous occasion; in 2000, he was riding in a car in Kansas City with local rapper Fat Tone, Sacramento's C-Bo and Vallejo's Mac Dre when an unknown vehicle opened fire, wounding Fat Tone. (Fat Tone was later implicated in the 2004 murder of Mac Dre, and was himself slain in 2005 in what police have called a retaliation killing.)
As Epps explains, street credibility means everything in the rap game. With gangster rap especially, listeners want to know, "is this n -- real, where's he coming from?" When your entire persona is based on being in the streets, he says, "you can't just cut the cord" and remove yourself from the community altogether.
For his part, Messy's well aware that his run-ins with the law haven't helped his chances of scoring a major-label contract. However, he says, "You have to understand that we're human beings, man, and you can't blame a person for being a product of their society." He's thankful to SMC and its distributor, Fontana/Universal, "for giving us an outlet to even stay out here and provide a way to feed our families."
But frustration is evident in his voice as he talks about the state of San Francisco's rap scene. "It's like, damn, when is somebody gonna give us a chance to reach that plateau so we can really start reaching out to the people in the community and start turning this s -- into something positive?"
Cloud of violence, trouble hovers over S.F. rap scene
Messy Marv's recent arrest is only the latest in a series of pitfalls, dating back over a decade, that have plagued the San Francisco rap scene and limited its progress.
1994: After a shooting during a rap showcase at the 1994 Gavin Convention -- a now-defunct annual event that once brought music industry bigwigs to the city -- the convention relocates to Atlanta, effectively severing the region's access to major-label executives and their potentially lucrative record deals.
1995: Rappin' 4-Tay -- who appeared on platinum records by Too and Tupac Shakur and scored a major national hit with 1994's "Player's Club" -- is arrested on domestic violence charges. His career since has been continually derailed by stints in prison.
1996: On New Year's Day, Hunters Point rapper Mr. Cee of RBL Posse is slain in a still-unsolved drive-by shooting. The group -- which sold more than 100,000 units of their 1991 single "Don't Give Me No Bammer Weed" and moved 200,000 units of 1994's "Ruthless by Law" -- never recovered. Despite signing a deal with Atlantic/Big Beat, 1997's "An Eye For an Eye" was a commercial and critical flop, while 2001's "Hostile Takeover" barely made a ripple in the music industry.
2001: Cougnut of Bayview's I.M.P., which at one time was compared to N.W.A., dies in a car crash. His loss sends a chilling ripple through the city's rap scene, and the group disbands.
2001: RBL affiliate Hitman, whose 1995 album "Solo Creep" reportedly sold more than 100,000 units, is killed in an apparent gang-related slaying in Hunters Point.
2002: Big Block Records owner Douglas "Boobie" Stepney, the alleged leader of the Big Block gang and a former associate of RBL Posse, is arrested as a result of a joint task force operation involving the FBI and the San Francisco Police Department investigating gang-related murders in Hunters Point.
2005: Messy Marv is arrested on weapons possession charges after being pulled over by police on his way to a photo shoot for XXL magazine (which could have resulted in national exposure and/or a major label deal).
-- Eric K. Arnold
haha "if only you guys could see his face! you'd sign him for sure."