3. I don't know if they were consciously aware of it nor is it relevent; it is a film that argues vehemently in favor of fascism and feeling over freedom and thought, no matter how much they pretend to be defending the latter. This has a shuddering parallel w/ current day conservatism. I don't think you have to read very deeply into this film to see these things.
Dude, this argument is premised on the belief that people will watch this film and be left wanting to emulate the Spartans.
I'm not saying that at all. Just because a film has a certain outlook doesn't mean that everyone is going to try to imitate it. Or at any rate I'm certainly not arguing this to be the case. The only thing I'm saying is that the film has a largely fascist value system - its Starship Troopers minus satire. I'm not making any claims about what the filmmakers intended, because I don't know, and I'm not making any claims about the audience reaction.
As a matter of fact, the whole camp-appeal is largely based on the film's fascist aesthetic, its focus on man's physical perfection.
As a matter of fact, the whole camp-appeal is largely based on the film's fascist aesthetic, its focus on man's physical perfection.
Um, no. The campiness of the film is a result of it being badly written, badly acted, and excessive in every way. It's a stupid film, not some pro-fascist screed.
As a matter of fact, the whole camp-appeal is largely based on the film's fascist aesthetic, its focus on man's physical perfection.
Um, no. The campiness of the film is a result of it being badly written, badly acted, and excessive in every way. It's a stupid film, not some pro-fascist screed.
one doesn't preclude the other! if you don't think part of the camp appeal is based on its obsession with Perfect Hairless White Male Bodies i think yr crazy!
I tried to justify seeing this movie but my girl made me listen to Miller's NPR interview where he states "that the entire western world is up against an existential foe", that part of the problem is that we were "educated to believe all cultures are equal", refers to "the enemy" and "who we're up against" as "these people" who "saw people's heads off", "enslave women" and "genetically mutilate their daughters", states that "they do not behave like any cultural norms", couldn't have invented microphones or airplanes(?!), criticizes Bush for not "calling the nation into a state of war" after 9/11", likens "us" (U.S. citizens I guess) to Romans, claims the stakes in the Iraq war are as high as in WWII because "we're taking on an idea here", and then gets sonned by my man on Talk Of The Nation. He came off real bad, all jittery, egotistical and ethno-centric, pompous, and some might say slightly fascist.
After hearing that interview, I'd rather lick the green off a dollar than spend it on his movie. I'm also convinced there is a deeper meaning to "300" than just entertainment.
Some of what Frank Miller said at San Francisco???s WonderCon comic book convention in 2006 bears repeating, as it puts the movie 300 in context. Miller revealed that his upcoming graphic novel, Holy Terror, Batman!, will feature the "Caped Crusader" fighting the al-Qaida terror network. Aside from promising that "Batman kicks al-Qaida???s ass," Miller went on to say the following about his forthcoming graphic novel: "Not to put too fine a point on it - it???s a piece of propaganda[/b]. I just think it???s silly to have Batman out chasing the Riddler when you???ve got al-Qaida out there." Miller went on to say that "I wish the entertainers of our time had the spine and the focus of the ones who faced down Hitler."
That more than a few critics have referred to 300 as an "erotic" film is also telling. In Susan Sontag???s 1975 essay on fascist aesthetics, Fascinating Fascism, she stated that fascist art is: "both prurient and idealizing. A utopian aesthetics (physical perfection; identity as a biological given) implies an ideal eroticism: sexuality converted into the magnetism of leaders and the joy of followers. The fascist ideal is to transform sexual energy into a "spiritual" force, for the benefit of the community.[/b]" Sontag went on to note that fascism: "stands for an ideal or rather ideals that are persistent today under the other banners: the ideal of life as art, the cult of beauty, the fetishism of courage, the dissolution of alienation in ecstatic feelings of community; the repudiation of the intellect; the family of man (under the parenthood of leaders.)" - all of which appear larger than life in 300.
Politically, Frank Miller really leans to the left and is a bit of a conspiracy theorist. His "Give Me Liberty" is an interesting comment on the military & race in America. His "Dark Knight Returns" looks at the Cold War, Ronald Reagan, and, through the characters of Batman & Superman, I bet one can see some democratic/republican debate played out. There are certain elements of his DKR Batman that are ripe for political discussion. Like, the Batman showing some Fascist tendancies or Superman as a lackey of the American government.
having said all that, it kinda bugs me when Iranians call themselves Persians.
in all honesty, I never put the Persia/Iran connection together until I had a 'Persian' roommate in college. (history was not my strongest subject) And while yes, it may be annoying to some when Iranians call themselves Persians, I think that one should consider it in the context of a survival technique. My roommate/friend calls himself Persian because his family fled Iran in the early 1980s right at the beginning of the Iran Contra scandal with Ollie and Ronnie. [sarcasm]Seeing that America is the open-minded nation of acceptance that it is[/sarcasm], he and his family were not exactly given a warm welcome in Philly and Boston, and my roommate had to constantly defend himself - both physically and verbally - from attacks against his ethnicity. Being Iranian in America during the Iran contra affair was not a good look, so many took to calling themselves Persian to hopefully deflect alot of the prejudice during that time.
people have to, and will, do what they feel is best for them and their family. we don't live in the States, so I can't speak to that (but did get a taste of it as we drove to Baltimore/DC frequently). it certainly wasn't a bed of roses in Canada at that time either. like i said in another post, I understand it. I don't think it helps things in the long run.
Look Miller is not a writer... he is known for his style only. His writing that he has done is mediocre at best. Anyone seeing anything more into 300 than it being an action film set in Greek/Roman times is reading waaaay too much into it. the whole reason for even creating this film was mainly an exercise cinematography/visual effects and nothing more. The way some people are reading inot this distorted revision of a revision of a Greek tale of a historical event is almost the same way people like to quote and refer to biblical stories as truths. Let it go, and enjoy it on its most basic level.
god damn. the movie was one big battle against monsters! how can you possibly twist that into something political? there was hardly even any talking in it? Just huge mindless battle after mindless battle. and it was awesome.
Ive heard everything from it being some huge iraq alegory, to it being about a war on black people, to it being all about gay bashing. people need to stop fucking reaching. Not everything is political.
Plus, batman against al-queda sounds awesome! why would he not fight al-queda? is it supposed to be totally right wing craziness to even admit they exist? They are a good bad guy. Comic books have always been propaganda.
Batman has already fought all those other dudes, terrorists would be a cool angle, cause alot of people look at batman himself as being a terrorist. Or at least a vigilante, a lone figure working outside the law in the name of justice. I think theres room for alot of really interesting character examination in there.
300 was about a big battle in a time when everybody was obsessed with war. And it looked really awesome. honestly im blown away by how many people cant just take this shit at face value.
It must be miserable going through life looking for and ultimately finding racism, real or perceived, in every single aspect of humanity.
I used to love to Bowl but now that I realize it's just a metaphor where a big black ball knocks down all the white pins with the red necks, I just can't do it anymore!!!
welcome to the club...prepare to be in fear, stigmatized, pimped, raped, marginalized, isolated, lied on, uglified, and in some cases, beat the fuck up.
welcome to the club...prepare to be in fear, stigmatized, pimped, raped, marginalized, isolated, lied on, uglified, and in some cases, beat the fuck up.
Comments
As a matter of fact, the whole camp-appeal is largely based on the film's fascist aesthetic, its focus on man's physical perfection.
Farsi = Persian
That's a lovely accent you have. New Jersey?
Austria
Austria? Well then. Gooday Mate. Let's put another shrimp on the barbie.
lol - thanks for clearing that up.
Um, no. The campiness of the film is a result of it being badly written, badly acted, and excessive in every way. It's a stupid film, not some pro-fascist screed.
if you don't think part of the camp appeal is based on its obsession with Perfect Hairless White Male Bodies i think yr crazy!
here's an idea of where the concept of fascist art comes from:
http://www.anti-rev.org/textes/Sontag74a/
mr. matthew already done said what I said
After hearing that interview, I'd rather lick the green off a dollar than spend it on his movie. I'm also convinced there is a deeper meaning to "300" than just entertainment.
Check it out, Miller is between 30:50 and 35:22:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7002481
SONIC
doh: deej just posted it ^^^^^^
I read another 300/Iran article, and they also mentioned senor Miller's Batman vs. Al Qaeda project, and also mentioned his 'post 9/11 conservatism'
people have to, and will, do what they feel is best for them and their family. we don't live in the States, so I can't speak to that (but did get a taste of it as we drove to Baltimore/DC frequently). it certainly wasn't a bed of roses in Canada at that time either. like i said in another post, I understand it. I don't think it helps things in the long run.
uhhhh, could we please refer to this conflict as the war "on" terror?
after all one "man's" terrorist "is" another man'"s" freedom fighter"."
just be sensitive to diverse viewpoints, that's all.
carry on.
You have the Spartans = The West
Persians = The East
The Spartans/West are fighting for freedom, which is based upon a cruel and militaristic society that fetishizes violence and war.
The Persians/East are an array of dark skinned monsters, transvestites, etc. out to conquer the world.
There is no dichotomy really because BOTH societies are flawed.
What is your goal in proving this film as fascist, anyhow? Is there some sort of horrible social implication?
Have you read the graphic novel upon which the movie is based?
as Ronnie once said, "the time for choosing is now"
?? I have no goal. Any more than people who said lost in translation was racist have a 'goal' in pointing out its questionable treatment of japanese.
no. i have less interest now than i did prior.
Ive heard everything from it being some huge iraq alegory, to it being about a war on black people, to it being all about gay bashing. people need to stop fucking reaching. Not everything is political.
Plus, batman against al-queda sounds awesome! why would he not fight al-queda? is it supposed to be totally right wing craziness to even admit they exist? They are a good bad guy. Comic books have always been propaganda.
Batman has already fought all those other dudes, terrorists would be a cool angle, cause alot of people look at batman himself as being a terrorist. Or at least a vigilante, a lone figure working outside the law in the name of justice. I think theres room for alot of really interesting character examination in there.
300 was about a big battle in a time when everybody was obsessed with war. And it looked really awesome. honestly im blown away by how many people cant just take this shit at face value.
do they have their own anti-defimation organizatrion yet or do they just piggy-back on an existing organization?
I used to love to Bowl but now that I realize it's just a metaphor where a big black ball knocks down all the white pins with the red necks, I just can't do it anymore!!!
welcome to the club...prepare to be in fear, stigmatized, pimped, raped, marginalized, isolated, lied on, uglified, and in some cases, beat the fuck up.
For the moment, I think they're the Popular Front of Judea of minority rights groups.
uuummm...
who? the immortals? they all had masks on! the big guy with the fangs and the chains on his neck? umm...ok.
Its kinda like calling return of the jedi racist cause the ewoks were supposed to represent native americans.