Electricity

Sun_FortuneSun_Fortune 1,374 Posts
edited June 2005 in Strut Central
Isn't it amazing? I don't understand how a cable thats plugged into the wall can turn on a sampler or a computer, and then one can make virtual shit in the realm of electricity. Its like aether. Does anyone really understand how it works? I don't. What's ill is that you have to use imaginary numbers to deal with the calculations. Imaginary numbers are soemthing that cannot possibly represent anything real. Its nutty. I dont understand.

  Comments


  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    yes. mad props to electricity, yo!

  • johmbolayajohmbolaya 4,472 Posts
    I thought this was about The Avalanches song.

  • Gotta give it up for indoor plumbing also!

  • lucerolucero 425 Posts
    yes. mad props to electricity, yo!

    electricity is very cool but mankinds insatiable appetite for electrical devices (cue air conditioning) underlies continual expansions in generating capacity, and where this generation is fuelled by coal, greater CO2 emissions, and hence global warming.

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    hater.

  • lucerolucero 425 Posts


    electricity is very cool

  • LamontLamont 1,089 Posts
    What's next, gravity appreciation thread ?

  • TabaskoTabasko 1,357 Posts
    and mad props to my arteries yo.

  • dj_pidj_pi 335 Posts
    I'm (unfortunately) studying to be an electrical engineer. If you have questions about stuff post them up and I'll try my best to respond.

  • LamontLamont 1,089 Posts
    Why is a 6 volt battery bigger than a 9 volt battery ?

  • SooksSooks 714 Posts
    Why is a 6 volt battery bigger than a 9 volt battery ?

    it has to do with the current that it can provide. For example, both AA and AAA batteries are 1.5 V batteries, just the mWh (milliwatt-hours) is higher for the AA battery (because it's bigger).

  • dj_pidj_pi 335 Posts
    Yeah...Sooks beat me to it...

    Also just noticed your questions Sun Fortune...

    There could be a lengthy explanation when it comes to sampling which deals a lot with signal processing. A lot of the stuff that producers do such as sampling and filtering are direct applications of math and understanding it can help in understanding the capabilities of what you can do. Here's my best at trying to explain it...

    So we start out with a signal that is continuous time. What does this mean? Well, its a signal where you can start with your pencil at one end and draw a line "continously" without lifting you pencil to the end. An example would be (a soultrut favorite) the cosine wave.

    (this is actually a sine wave)
    Now how does this relate to music? Well, each complex waves that we see can be generated from smaller more simple waves. We can develop them through what we call harmonics. At best, this would be a way to describe it through an equation...
    complex stuff = sin(1x) + sin(2x) + ....
    Where each sin function is related to all the other sin waves, but with different magnitudes in the argument. Kinda hard to grasp at first but hopefully you get it.

    So now, we have defined what these waves are and we want to get them into our computer or sampler. The problem is, everything is digital so we have to convert. To do this, we're going to take approximations of the continuous time signal by recording points of the continuous time signal at defined regular intervals. The result is something like what is pictured below.

    So this is where we lose quality when we sample. All the sampler does is takes those points and stores their value and throws the rest away. So if we look at an EMU SP-1200 we notice that the sampling rate is 26 kHZ and an Akai MPC-2000xl 44 kHZ. What does this mean? The EMU samples slower thus sampling fewer points and giving us that little distortion which is such a desired sound by producers. Not to diss the MPC (which is what I have) cause it also does a great job as well.

    After you sample your signal, you need to convert it to 1's and 0's so the sampler can understand whats going on. This process is called quantization and basically your sampler has a set range defined for volume levels. These levels are determined by the number of bits you have. Lets say you have a 2 dB (decibel) sound and you sample it. On an MPC, you have 16 bits so lets just say Akai decided to store the sound as...
    0000 1010 1100 1110
    This is just some number I made but in reality, it would correspond to the sound level that Akai defined or the chips they used for sampling.

    From there on out...its all computer talk on how the signal gets used inside the computer or sampler. Another thing worth mentioning is that a lot of filters used on sounds is a direct application of transforms, where we convert the sound into a different domain. Kinda means taking the wave and looking at it in a world where time doesn't exist.


    As far as imaginary numbers, they play a big role in circuits when you have capacitive and inductive loads. When developing circuits, the real part of your power (or voltage, or current, or whatever you're measuring) is the stuff that you will actually use. For instance, when driving a speaker cone, you would be using your real power. The imaginary stuff is what gets stored inside capacitors and inductors.

    Sorry to drop this all on you...but hope it helps...

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    Yeah...Sooks beat me to it...

    Also just noticed your questions Sun Fortune...

    There could be a lengthy explanation when it comes to sampling which deals a lot with signal processing. A lot of the stuff that producers do such as sampling and filtering are direct applications of math and understanding it can help in understanding the capabilities of what you can do. Here's my best at trying to explain it...

    So we start out with a signal that is continuous time. What does this mean? Well, its a signal where you can start with your pencil at one end and draw a line "continously" without lifting you pencil to the end. An example would be (a soultrut favorite) the cosine wave.

    (this is actually a sine wave)
    Now how does this relate to music? Well, each complex waves that we see can be generated from smaller more simple waves. We can develop them through what we call harmonics. At best, this would be a way to describe it through an equation...
    complex stuff = sin(1x) + sin(2x) + ....
    Where each sin function is related to all the other sin waves, but with different magnitudes in the argument. Kinda hard to grasp at first but hopefully you get it.

    So now, we have defined what these waves are and we want to get them into our computer or sampler. The problem is, everything is digital so we have to convert. To do this, we're going to take approximations of the continuous time signal by recording points of the continuous time signal at defined regular intervals. The result is something like what is pictured below.

    So this is where we lose quality when we sample. All the sampler does is takes those points and stores their value and throws the rest away. So if we look at an EMU SP-1200 we notice that the sampling rate is 26 kHZ and an Akai MPC-2000xl 44 kHZ. What does this mean? The EMU samples slower thus sampling fewer points and giving us that little distortion which is such a desired sound by producers. Not to diss the MPC (which is what I have) cause it also does a great job as well.

    After you sample your signal, you need to convert it to 1's and 0's so the sampler can understand whats going on. This process is called quantization and basically your sampler has a set range defined for volume levels. These levels are determined by the number of bits you have. Lets say you have a 2 dB (decibel) sound and you sample it. On an MPC, you have 16 bits so lets just say Akai decided to store the sound as...
    0000 1010 1100 1110
    This is just some number I made but in reality, it would correspond to the sound level that Akai defined or the chips they used for sampling.

    From there on out...its all computer talk on how the signal gets used inside the computer or sampler. Another thing worth mentioning is that a lot of filters used on sounds is a direct application of transforms, where we convert the sound into a different domain. Kinda means taking the wave and looking at it in a world where time doesn't exist.


    As far as imaginary numbers, they play a big role in circuits when you have capacitive and inductive loads. When developing circuits, the real part of your power (or voltage, or current, or whatever you're measuring) is the stuff that you will actually use. For instance, when driving a speaker cone, you would be using your real power. The imaginary stuff is what gets stored inside capacitors and inductors.

    Sorry to drop this all on you...but hope it helps...

    Someone give this guy a degree in soulstrut engineering.


  • mordecaimordecai 2,204 Posts
    I thought this was about The Avalanches song.
    I thought this said titties.

  • billbradleybillbradley You want BBQ sauce? Get the fuck out of my house. 2,905 Posts

  • dj_pidj_pi 335 Posts


    Someone give this guy a degree in soulstrut engineering.


    Thanks DOR but to be honest...I hate engineering and the mentality of the people in it. Hope the explanation helped some people out.

  • SooksSooks 714 Posts


    Someone give this guy a degree in soulstrut engineering.


    Thanks DOR but to be honest...I hate engineering and the mentality of the people in it. Hope the explanation helped some people out.

    haha this is true, most engineers are jerks - although, through by some weird operation, they become fine once you're in grad school (although that may be just exposure). How much longer do you have?

  • Big_ChanBig_Chan 5,088 Posts
    Folls, I LOVE ELECTRICITY!!!! Keeps computers putin'. Keeps all my gear runnin' at the crib. When it's dark, lights are dope. Big up to electricity.


  • dj_pidj_pi 335 Posts
    I'm going to be a 5th year senior in Michigan State's undergrad program. I literally have one more Electrical Engineering class to finish but I also picked up a Mathematics degree which will take up the remaining rest of the year. Then possibly grad school or job...who knows...

    What about you?

    And yeah, I can't stand the people in engineering. The work until you die mentality really gets to me. As weird as it sounds, I'm looking forward to the math because then I won't have as much pressure. I always hate the fact that they make us do so much. Engineers have to learn how to do the complex math, learn to program in many different languages, circuit analysis (which is an artform all in itself), and actually construct the damn thing. With math, it'll be pretty abstract but the most I will have to do is write a couple papers. I know a lot of the math already from engineering, just not the in depth theory stuff. I'm happy though cause now I will actually be able to go out, dig for records, maybe get a gf again, enjoy life...

  • I'm (unfortunately) studying to be an electrical engineer. If you have questions about stuff post them up and I'll try my best to respond.

    why do we use AC instead of DC?

    and how do I build one of these?



  • coselmedcoselmed 1,114 Posts
    What's next, gravity appreciation thread ?



    Gravity is no good.




  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,903 Posts
    What's next, gravity appreciation thread ?

    Gravity is no good.


    My eyes burn...

  • SooksSooks 714 Posts
    I'm going to be a 5th year senior in Michigan State's undergrad program. I literally have one more Electrical Engineering class to finish but I also picked up a Mathematics degree which will take up the remaining rest of the year. Then possibly grad school or job...who knows...

    What about you?

    And yeah, I can't stand the people in engineering. The work until you die mentality really gets to me. As weird as it sounds, I'm looking forward to the math because then I won't have as much pressure. I always hate the fact that they make us do so much. Engineers have to learn how to do the complex math, learn to program in many different languages, circuit analysis (which is an artform all in itself), and actually construct the damn thing. With math, it'll be pretty abstract but the most I will have to do is write a couple papers. I know a lot of the math already from engineering, just not the in depth theory stuff. I'm happy though cause now I will actually be able to go out, dig for records, maybe get a gf again, enjoy life...

    I hear you, but, as with everything, working is a lot different than school... unless you're at a small start-up you're working mostly in one area, and you don't really have to do any math anymore. Or, rather, the computer does the math for you. I have a masters in EE and work in microwave / mmwave circuits, antennas & packaging, and don't really use any of the skills (aside from the vague 'learn to think') from my undergrad. This field seems to only exist in any seriousness from grad school on. Also, for me, the work-until-you-die mentality only rears its head in pretty specific situations - in companies, you're only working crazy hard when you're really making money (or hoping to make a lot, really soon). The rest of the time it's 9-5. I have no idea what mathematicians do. I suspect they do programming most of the time, like for banks or insurance companies, but I don't really know. As for your grad school or job decision, I would say only go to grad school if you like school. The pressures are different and the classes are more fun (really), but it's all the same thing, and you'll make the same in the end if you get a job and start working vs. get a masters.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    yes. mad props to electricity, yo!

    electricity is very cool but mankinds insatiable appetite for electrical devices (cue air conditioning) underlies continual expansions in generating capacity, and where this generation is fuelled by coal, greater CO2 emissions, and hence global warming.

    Yeah, but my wine, cheese, humidor and record storage would be useless without proper temperature and humidity controls. If that means that life on earth is headed down the sewer to keep my records from warping, I can't say I see an alternative. C'est la Vie!

  • lucerolucero 425 Posts
    yo Birdman, it comes down to something called 'peak load' - I'm no engineer (perhaps one can elaborate) but essentially there has to be massive investment in order to have sufficient generation capacity to meet demand spikes which only occur a few days a year, i.e 110 degrees + .. in Australia the proliferation of home airconditioning units underlie this situation, proportinately not that many people have htem, but everyone has to pay higher prices due to said proliferation and investment



    I don't recall the specific of the big US east coast blackout from a few years ago (when aspirin made a very witty gag about drbrowncelerary who was at the time rawpower, or was it no power?), but it could have been something along the lines of excess demand shorting the system out



    as for alternatives, they still haven't come up with a way of disposing the uranium used by nuclear power stations, yet more is continually being produced



    wind and solar power are becoming more economically feasible, but still require supportive policy environments if they are to make inroads, there are several 'lever's which could be utilised, i.e cap and trade pollution schemes. I think the UK has a policy of something like 20% of supplies by 2015 are to be from renewable sources



    electricity is clearly here to stay, we just need to develop ways of reducing the impact generation activities have on the environment - China, at the moment, is bit of a concern as they are building shitloads of coal powered stations to fuel their growth




  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    yo Birdman, it comes down to something called 'peak load' - I'm no engineer (perhaps one can elaborate) but essentially there has to be massive investment in order to have sufficient generation capacity to meet demand spikes which only occur a few days a year, i.e 110 degrees + .. in Australia the proliferation of home airconditioning units underlie this situation, proportinately not that many people have htem, but everyone has to pay higher prices due to said proliferation and investment

    I don't recall the specific of the big US east coast blackout from a few years ago (when aspirin made a very witty gag about drbrowncelerary who was at the time rawpower, or was it no power?), but it could have been something along the lines of excess demand shorting the system out

    as for alternatives, they still haven't come up with a way of disposing the uranium used by nuclear power stations, yet more is continually being produced

    wind and solar power are becoming more economically feasible, but still require supportive policy environments if they are to make inroads, there are several 'lever's which could be utilised, i.e cap and trade pollution schemes. I think the UK has a policy of something like 20% of supplies by 2015 are to be from renewable sources

    electricity is clearly here to stay, we just need to develop ways of reducing the impact generation activities have on the environment - China, at the moment, is bit of a concern as they are building shitloads of coal powered stations to fuel their growth


    I am with you, I was just trying to be funny. I have to leave that to TheMack. The farm I used to live on when I was in junior high was owned by a guy who designed wind generators....there were many high tech windmills all over the property and he sold the energy to the power company in the area. But the energy lobby in America is owned and beholden to the oil companies, so a lot of wind development gets the short stick.

    So, Luc, have ya any of the Radio Birdman reunion shows down there? or not your cup of tea? I am still waiting for them to come to the US.

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