Gottdamn i don't know why cosmo got all personal with that shit, esp. considering how much i qualified my argument by saying shit about how this wasn't an attack on him or what he does, so really dude YOU SOUND ASSHURT
This was no attack on you or your crew and this has nothing to do w/ my 'fledgling journalism career' or whatever you think my motives happen to be. as for what it is exactly that I do, and what my crew does and what kind of music my group creates its spelled out pretty plainly on yr website
This was no attack on you or your crew and this has nothing to do w/ my 'fledgling journalism career' or whatever you think my motives happen to be. as for what it is exactly that I do, and what my crew does and what kind of music my group creates its spelled out pretty plainly on yr website
Let me guess what it says: Mash Ups? Get your shit together dude.
I dunno I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie about something that wasn't meant as a personal attack
now THAT is funny.... its the phrasing....
I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie
This was no attack on you or your crew and this has nothing to do w/ my 'fledgling journalism career' or whatever you think my motives happen to be. as for what it is exactly that I do, and what my crew does and what kind of music my group creates its spelled out pretty plainly on yr website
Let me guess what it says: Mash Ups? Get your shit together dude.
what do hipsterbait terms like 'mashups' have to do with you using other people's music without permission
If your income is solely based on royalties (which is the case for little dudes like me), then i have a problem with free downloads. But the beast was unleashed a long time ago and we cant do much right now. Myself, i do download music but i do PAY too. Unfortunately, too many people had the opportunity to download free schit back in the Napster days. Now we are caught between a rock and a hard place, where listeners wants music for free and "makers" want their royalties back. Both positions can't be assumed if you ask me. Listeners can suck my dick if they think they will not pay for music. Also, musicians need to step up their game and use the new tools we have (user generated content, direct marketing, blah, blah). Right now, A&Rs are checking myspace pages to get some infos about upcoming artists. The industry is slow. People in the recording industry just NOW integrate the fact that collecting royalties will never be the same. I get more money doing ringtones biznesses than selling beats...what about that. This is not something i was expecting back in 1998, but there it is. A market is to be conquered, you have to get your shit ready for it. The problem is people spend too much time whinning about free downloads but yet do a little to fight it. You need to propose something new to the customers. The market is shrinking in terms of volume. Granted, if we was trying to do better music, maybe people would find more interest in buying CDs (or paying to download). But who wanna spend money on music nowadays. Not many people...including me.LOL. Rappers want to get 8$ a CD (sic!) but yet want spend two weeks to record the songs. They should be more worried with the beats they choose and the lyrics they write.
It's amazing the to see the sense of entitlement some younger music fans are developing
I don't think you have to look at younger fans. There's a sense of entitlement across all age groups. People feel entitled to manipulate other musicians work and not pay them for this. People feel entitled to assemble recordings of other artists work and sell this cd and not give them a cut. If we're going to talk about entitlement, then lets be fair. Having seen what legal hoops people jump through to get ish out there correctly & legally, having seen the $$$ that changes hands to do so, and having seen people get robbed of the cash they had coming to them has given me cause to pause when thinking about putting out mixes & other stuff on my own. If you're not paying royalties, then I don't think you can knock dudes who take from you and don't pay. They're just taking part in the culture of entitlement.
after reading this post I went and bought the one copy of the Puts stepfather cd that has been sitting at the borders down the street since I moved here in july.
I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie
Look... I hate to see you guys struggle to make it because you deserve nothing but success for doing what you do the way you do (Thes, Day, Cosmo, etc.)
What I also hate to see is you guys getting upset with the situation because there's no resolution there. Times have changed and people are going to continue downloading. There's really no way around that so if you want to continue your careers, you need to get creative and find other revenue channels. You have to adapt to the market changes. The music biz is fucked up, true, but there's still ways to succeed. Some examples would be merchandising. Create a brand for yourself that is recognizable and desireable and put it on EVERYTHING. Shit, you could sell People Under the Stairs... stairs probably. I dunno... get creative.
Artistic packaging... make your CDs and vinyl something worth having a real copy of over a digital copy. You could have a limited numbered run of specially packaged CDs with signed inserts and charge twice as much for them.
Ringtones... dudes, this is the only music people pay for anymore. No joke. You'd be surprised how much money is in that one. Unfortunately, it's very mainstream music dominated right now, but it'd take 2 seconds to make and could generate som income.
I'm just brainstorming here... I'm sure some folks could throw out some more ideas. Think about how you can do it and not why you can't do it.
Please don't take this as me telling you how to do what you do because yes, I'm an outsider looking in, but try and take this as constructive suggestions from someone who truly cares.
Great words, and very true. I have always felt more inclined to buy CDs that include some sort of extras, whether it's a DVD, poster, foldout packaging, anything to make it stand out from everything else that's being released. Even if it's just signing the record, or getting your boy whose a Graffiti artist to do a dope foldout poster, a little bit goes a long way - you can bootleg a CD but you can't download and print a poster, and it's tough to find DVD extras from a CD online.
Going beyond this, with the name recognition some folks have here on these boards, I think y'all could make some significant money just teaching people the game when it comes to DJing and production. Places have tried to do this, but they have been disconnected and way overpriced. As fragmented as the hip-hop community can seem sometimes I know a lot of people including myself who would pay good money just to spend a day with a few folks getting beat-making or DJing advice from dudes like Thes, Day, or Cosmo, just helping little dudes take their creativity to the next level. The kind of stuff that goes on here on a good day, but on a more organized and person-to-person level. Seriously, fuck the CD sales, y'all are some of the most highly respected people in hip-hop today, and that's not some fanboy BS, that's real.
This isn't to say that y'all should necessarily sell yourselves as people, or want money for everything you do, but CDs are only one part of the game, and vinyl is only going to be supported by fellow DJs and die-hard supporters.
Just my 2 cents. For the record, I think y'all should be getting paid for your mixes, and of all things, they shouldn't be bootlegged. Y'all make this old music popular again, and it's the job of record labels to capitalize off this renewed popularity via represses and anthology compilations.
all these pretended loss of billions is just hyperbolical. all fake. if a sup*rtoast*r has a monthly pocket money of 50 $ and he downloads 20 movies in a month, so where does he rob the industry if the money doesn`t exist to go to the cinema.
and don`t forget that everyday a new artist see the light besides the old consisting ones, so it`s only logic that everybody gets only the small crumbs and not a sating tart piece nowadays.
at kala, the german RIAA tries to bust rapidshare allready, the denouncement runs.
Look... I hate to see you guys struggle to make it because you deserve nothing but success for doing what you do the way you do (Thes, Day, Cosmo, etc.)
What I also hate to see is you guys getting upset with the situation because there's no resolution there. Times have changed and people are going to continue downloading. There's really no way around that so if you want to continue your careers, you need to get creative and find other revenue channels. You have to adapt to the market changes. The music biz is fucked up, true, but there's still ways to succeed. Some examples would be merchandising. Create a brand for yourself that is recognizable and desireable and put it on EVERYTHING. Shit, you could sell People Under the Stairs... stairs probably. I dunno... get creative.
Artistic packaging... make your CDs and vinyl something worth having a real copy of over a digital copy. You could have a limited numbered run of specially packaged CDs with signed inserts and charge twice as much for them.
Ringtones... dudes, this is the only music people pay for anymore. No joke. You'd be surprised how much money is in that one. Unfortunately, it's very mainstream music dominated right now, but it'd take 2 seconds to make and could generate som income.
I'm just brainstorming here... I'm sure some folks could throw out some more ideas. Think about how you can do it and not why you can't do it.
Please don't take this as me telling you how to do what you do because yes, I'm an outsider looking in, but try and take this as constructive suggestions from someone who truly cares.
Great words, and very true. I have always felt more inclined to buy CDs that include some sort of extras, whether it's a DVD, poster, foldout packaging, anything to make it stand out from everything else that's being released. Even if it's just signing the record, or getting your boy whose a Graffiti artist to do a dope foldout poster, a little bit goes a long way - you can bootleg a CD but you can't download and print a poster, and it's tough to find DVD extras from a CD online.
Going beyond this, with the name recognition some folks have here on these boards, I think y'all could make some significant money just teaching people the game when it comes to DJing and production. Places have tried to do this, but they have been disconnected and way overpriced. As fragmented as the hip-hop community can seem sometimes I know a lot of people including myself who would pay good money just to spend a day with a few folks getting beat-making or DJing advice from dudes like Thes, Day, or Cosmo, just helping little dudes take their creativity to the next level. The kind of stuff that goes on here on a good day, but on a more organized and person-to-person level. Seriously, fuck the CD sales, y'all are some of the most highly respected people in hip-hop today, and that's not some fanboy BS, that's real.
This isn't to say that y'all should necessarily sell yourselves as people, or want money for everything you do, but CDs are only one part of the game, and vinyl is only going to be supported by fellow DJs and die-hard supporters.
Just my 2 cents. For the record, I think y'all should be getting paid for your mixes, and of all things, they shouldn't be bootlegged. Y'all make this old music popular again, and it's the job of record labels to capitalize off this renewed popularity via represses and anthology compilations.
Real insightful and well thought out comments guys.
The minute music went from an idea into a tangible product there has been problems with it. The record companies and artists have always been semi-clueless. It's that line where musicians as artists have a trouble grasping music as product. Record industry business suits unjustifiably judging talent and art. A part of me thinks there comes creation in destruction, and a part of me doesn't like to see this free for all against deserving musicians. However I'm all for the industry changing into something more personal. The truth of the matter is I'm just as guilty of downloading as 12 year old becky. I feel that it's personally time to step up my supporting current music that matters to me. Even if it's buying a t-shirt or ordering an import japanese psych album.
I have always felt more inclined to buy CDs that include some sort of extras, whether it's a DVD, poster, foldout packaging, anything to make it stand out from everything else that's being released.
However I'm all for the industry changing into something more personal. The truth of the matter is I'm just as guilty of downloading as 12 year old becky. I feel that it's personally time to step up my supporting current music that matters to me. Even if it's buying a t-shirt or ordering an import japanese psych album.[/b] - spidey
Bapt
Serious, look A-ko or they're young (younger than us) but they're into collecting records, there will always be kids who will (buy records and) care about the sound quality... I hear you but what I mean is that I believe in people who resist, not people who resist change but people who care about art.[/b]
...does that mean he doesn't have the right to complain?
Well, the rapper is jacking the beats with the intent of creating a work of art. A bootlegger is jacking the art with the intention of creating a profit. They're different in that way. But, its not like the rapper doesn't want to make money, either. I think people sound a litlle disconncected from the real world in regards to money. If you take/borrow some thing that has a cash value and use it to profit without paying somebody something, they're not going to be happy. That holds true for the rapper, the guy he's sampling, the label, etc... And it will not matter to them if you're creating something novel for people to enjoy. The bootlegger is to the rapper what the rapper is to the guy who gets sampled & doesn't see a cent. I'm not trying to dispute the merits of sampling, but trying to point out that everbody likes and needs money. And you're either naive or disconnected from life when you can't see that.
...does that mean he doesn't have the right to complain?
Well, the rapper is jacking the beats with the intent of creating a work of art. A bootlegger is jacking the art with the intention of creating a profit. They're different in that way. But, its not like the rapper doesn't want to make money, either. I think people sound a litlle disconncected from the real world in regards to money. If you take/borrow some thing that has a cash value and use it to profit without paying somebody something, they're not going to be happy. That holds true for the rapper, the guy he's sampling, the label, etc... And it will not matter to them if you're creating something novel for people to enjoy. The bootlegger is to the rapper what the rapper is to the guy who gets sampled & doesn't see a cent[/b]. I'm not trying to dispute the merits of sampling, but trying to point out that everbody likes and needs money. And you're either naive or disconnected from life when you can't see that.
Call me crazy but I just don't get how, in 2007, people are still suggesting that sampling and bootlegging are morally equivalent.
...does that mean he doesn't have the right to complain?
Well, the rapper is jacking the beats with the intent of creating a work of art. A bootlegger is jacking the art with the intention of creating a profit. They're different in that way.[/b] But, its not like the rapper doesn't want to make money, either. I think people sound a litlle disconncected from the real world in regards to money. If you take/borrow some thing that has a cash value and use it to profit without paying somebody something, they're not going to be happy. That holds true for the rapper, the guy he's sampling, the label, etc... And it will not matter to them if you're creating something novel for people to enjoy. The bootlegger is to the rapper what the rapper is to the guy who gets sampled & doesn't see a cent. I'm not trying to dispute the merits of sampling, but trying to point out that everbody likes and needs money. And you're either naive or disconnected from life when you can't see that.
Call me crazy but I just don't get how, in 2007, people are still suggesting that sampling and bootlegging are morally equivalent.
Morally different, but its all business and comes down to money.
That's actually not true - the law treats bootlegging versus sampling differently because one has its foundations in artistry and the other in commerce.
They are both instances of copyright infringement but they are not the same and are not treated as "all business".
That's actually not true - the law treats bootlegging versus sampling differently because one has its foundations in artistry and the other in commerce.
They are both instances of copyright infringement but they are not the same and are not treated as "all business".
The law might treat them differently & make a distiction and they well should because they're different, but lawsuits have happened in both cases and cash has to change hands whatever the case.
That's actually not true - the law treats bootlegging versus sampling differently because one has its foundations in artistry and the other in commerce.
They are both instances of copyright infringement but they are not the same and are not treated as "all business".
The law might treat them differently & make a distiction and they well should because they're different, but lawsuits have happened in both cases and cash has to change hands whatever the case.
Haz, no offense but you're comparing apples and oranges. Even YOU acknowledge this. So why do you keep insisting on comparing them?
A lot of things involve "lawsuits" and "cash changing hands." Paternity suits, for example. Auto accidents for another. Do these have a relationship to DJing/sampling/bootlegging too?
I also find it highly problematic that people (not just Haz) are suggesting that because certain forms of intellectual property are covered under the law, then that alone justifies an ethical comparison. What I hear people saying is some suspect logic: "well, if the law says it's illegal, it must be wrong."
If I'm not mistaken, under current copyright coverage, drum patterns don't earn the same protection as melodic passages. Does this distinction in the law mean that people don't have a problem with Clyde Stubblefield not getting sampling $$$ but are willing to come to Monty Stark's defense? Just because the law is different?
That's actually not true - the law treats bootlegging versus sampling differently because one has its foundations in artistry and the other in commerce.
They are both instances of copyright infringement but they are not the same and are not treated as "all business".
The law might treat them differently & make a distiction and they well should because they're different, but lawsuits have happened in both cases and cash has to change hands whatever the case.
Haz, no offense but you're comparing apples and oranges. Even YOU acknowledge this. So why do you keep insisting on comparing them?
A lot of things involve "lawsuits" and "cash changing hands." Paternity suits, for example. Auto accidents for another. Do these have a relationship to DJing/sampling/bootlegging too?
I also find it highly problematic that people (not just Haz) are suggesting that because certain forms of intellectual property are covered under the law, then that alone justifies an ethical comparison. What I hear people saying is some suspect logic: "well, if the law says it's illegal, it must be wrong."
If I'm not mistaken, under current copyright coverage, drum patterns don't earn the same protection as melodic passages. Does this distinction in the law mean that people don't have a problem with Clyde Stubblefield not getting sampling $$$ but are willing to come to Monty Stark's defense? Just because the law is different?
GTFOOHWTB.
All I'm thinking is that moeny makes the world go around, even in art. People want it & will stake claims when they can. And this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. If anyone took anything I made & made money off it, you can be damn sure I'd be looking for my cut, no matter what the amount. And I wouldn't care if the law said it was legal or not. A$$, Gas or Cash, no one rides for free.
Comments
Hahaha.
Thats sum funny shit.
This was no attack on you or your crew and this has nothing to do w/ my 'fledgling journalism career' or whatever you think my motives happen to be. as for what it is exactly that I do, and what my crew does and what kind of music my group creates its spelled out pretty plainly on yr website
b/w
I love when you get all fatherly with deej.
Let me guess what it says: Mash Ups? Get your shit together dude.
now THAT is funny.... its the phrasing....
I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie
I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie
I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie
I thought the Cos got a little madd doggie
Sounds like bill cosby owns an angry chihuahua.
what do hipsterbait terms like 'mashups' have to do with you using other people's music without permission
Everytime you download music for free you're potentially taking money out of someone's pocket.
"Whats it like to make love to a girl?"
I'll tell you, its worth every cent.
Fuck, you stay? Oh noooo.
I don't think you have to look at younger fans. There's a sense of entitlement across all age groups. People feel entitled to manipulate other musicians work and not pay them for this. People feel entitled to assemble recordings of other artists work and sell this cd and not give them a cut. If we're going to talk about entitlement, then lets be fair. Having seen what legal hoops people jump through to get ish out there correctly & legally, having seen the $$$ that changes hands to do so, and having seen people get robbed of the cash they had coming to them has given me cause to pause when thinking about putting out mixes & other stuff on my own. If you're not paying royalties, then I don't think you can knock dudes who take from you and don't pay. They're just taking part in the culture of entitlement.
See? I support
Mr. Bull strikes again!
If a rapper doesn't clear his samples...
...and then his CD gets bootlegged...
...does that mean he doesn't have the right to complain?
Great words, and very true. I have always felt more inclined to buy CDs that include some sort of extras, whether it's a DVD, poster, foldout packaging, anything to make it stand out from everything else that's being released. Even if it's just signing the record, or getting your boy whose a Graffiti artist to do a dope foldout poster, a little bit goes a long way - you can bootleg a CD but you can't download and print a poster, and it's tough to find DVD extras from a CD online.
Going beyond this, with the name recognition some folks have here on these boards, I think y'all could make some significant money just teaching people the game when it comes to DJing and production. Places have tried to do this, but they have been disconnected and way overpriced. As fragmented as the hip-hop community can seem sometimes I know a lot of people including myself who would pay good money just to spend a day with a few folks getting beat-making or DJing advice from dudes like Thes, Day, or Cosmo, just helping little dudes take their creativity to the next level. The kind of stuff that goes on here on a good day, but on a more organized and person-to-person level. Seriously, fuck the CD sales, y'all are some of the most highly respected people in hip-hop today, and that's not some fanboy BS, that's real.
This isn't to say that y'all should necessarily sell yourselves as people, or want money for everything you do, but CDs are only one part of the game, and vinyl is only going to be supported by fellow DJs and die-hard supporters.
Just my 2 cents. For the record, I think y'all should be getting paid for your mixes, and of all things, they shouldn't be bootlegged. Y'all make this old music popular again, and it's the job of record labels to capitalize off this renewed popularity via represses and anthology compilations.
and he downloads 20 movies in a month, so where does he rob the industry
if the money doesn`t exist to go to the cinema.
and don`t forget that everyday a new artist see the light besides the old consisting ones,
so it`s only logic that everybody gets only the small crumbs and not a sating tart piece nowadays.
at kala, the german RIAA tries to bust rapidshare allready, the denouncement runs.
Real insightful and well thought out comments guys.
The minute music went from an idea into a tangible product there has been problems with it. The record companies and artists have always been semi-clueless. It's that line where musicians as artists have a trouble grasping music as product. Record industry business suits unjustifiably judging talent and art. A part of me thinks there comes creation in destruction, and a part of me doesn't like to see this free for all against deserving musicians. However I'm all for the industry changing into something more personal. The truth of the matter is I'm just as guilty of downloading as 12 year old becky. I feel that it's personally time to step up my supporting current music that matters to me. Even if it's buying a t-shirt or ordering an import japanese psych album.
- spidey
MalusAranea
Bapt
That's what I'm talking about.[/b]
Well, the rapper is jacking the beats with the intent of creating a work of art. A bootlegger is jacking the art with the intention of creating a profit. They're different in that way. But, its not like the rapper doesn't want to make money, either. I think people sound a litlle disconncected from the real world in regards to money. If you take/borrow some thing that has a cash value and use it to profit without paying somebody something, they're not going to be happy. That holds true for the rapper, the guy he's sampling, the label, etc... And it will not matter to them if you're creating something novel for people to enjoy. The bootlegger is to the rapper what the rapper is to the guy who gets sampled & doesn't see a cent. I'm not trying to dispute the merits of sampling, but trying to point out that everbody likes and needs money. And you're either naive or disconnected from life when you can't see that.
Call me crazy but I just don't get how, in 2007, people are still suggesting that sampling and bootlegging are morally equivalent.
Morally different, but its all business and comes down to money.
They are both instances of copyright infringement but they are not the same and are not treated as "all business".
The law might treat them differently & make a distiction and they well should because they're different, but lawsuits have happened in both cases and cash has to change hands whatever the case.
Haz, no offense but you're comparing apples and oranges. Even YOU acknowledge this. So why do you keep insisting on comparing them?
A lot of things involve "lawsuits" and "cash changing hands." Paternity suits, for example. Auto accidents for another. Do these have a relationship to DJing/sampling/bootlegging too?
I also find it highly problematic that people (not just Haz) are suggesting that because certain forms of intellectual property are covered under the law, then that alone justifies an ethical comparison. What I hear people saying is some suspect logic: "well, if the law says it's illegal, it must be wrong."
If I'm not mistaken, under current copyright coverage, drum patterns don't earn the same protection as melodic passages. Does this distinction in the law mean that people don't have a problem with Clyde Stubblefield not getting sampling $$$ but are willing to come to Monty Stark's defense? Just because the law is different?
GTFOOHWTB.
All I'm thinking is that moeny makes the world go around, even in art. People want it & will stake claims when they can. And this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. If anyone took anything I made & made money off it, you can be damn sure I'd be looking for my cut, no matter what the amount. And I wouldn't care if the law said it was legal or not. A$$, Gas or Cash, no one rides for free.