Ken Burns: Funk

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  • 99Problems99Problems 1,541 Posts
    to be honest, i couldnt sit through the jazz series, but i think something in that vein (a documentary series) on the developement of funk would be nice. i didnt know so many of you were so passionate about your hate for ken burns and anything he does. damn.


    So what your looking for is a funk documentary series that you can't sit through?

  • jaymackjaymack 5,199 Posts
    to be honest, i couldnt sit through the jazz series, but i think something in that vein (a documentary series) on the developement of funk would be nice. i didnt know so many of you were so passionate about your hate for ken burns and anything he does. damn.


    So what your looking for is a funk documentary series that you can't sit through?

    yup exactly what i was implying.

    i dont really like old time jazz. thats why i couldnt sit through it. im more a fan of funky soul type shit. whatever

  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    When PBS had that long documentary series devoted to rock like 10-12 years ago there was a volume devoted to funk, it was pretty good... though all too brief



    I was gonna mention this, because there was some incredibly funny shit in that series, which was produced in the UK (I assume BBC), and shown in the US on the BBC affiliate known as "PBS."



    Highlight: the Hip Hop episode, where they pretty much credited New Order[/b] with inventing Hip Hop!! HAHAHAHAHA!!







    "In 1980, The Sugarhill Gang released '8th Wonder,' laying the foundation..."[/b]







    "...nothing happened until 1983, when Arthur Baker remixed New Order's 'Confusion,' thereby inventing Hip Hop as we know it today."[/b]

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Ken Burns' biggest problem was that he wasn't an objective creator in his jazz documentary. Entire segments were conjecture at best, colonialist fantasy at worst. His criticism was obviously focused on his disgust at what jazz became, while lauding the heros. To him, anything past bop didn't really happen, "new thing" jazz'ers were confused, and anybody who cut an album with electric overtones was obviously going through some kind of failed experiment. Anyhow I'll stop because the documentary gets me too keyed up.

    I think the probelm had less to do with Ken Burns than it had to do with Wynton's input. As most of y'all know Wynton has routinely shunned anything post bop, goes out of his way to only talk about Satchmo, and of course the incident with Miles Davis. Im not saying Wynton isnt an exceptional technical player, which he is, but his whole "I am jazz" mantra is completely annoying. Wynton Marsalis was, I believe, Burns' main music adviser and probably shaped his opinion. Burns made a great documentary about Baseball, and Ive heard his Jack Johnson thing wasnt horrible.

    The first episode was very good. The whole thing was good up through world war one.

    I was at the Portland Jazz Socety record sale a few weeks ago. They had a lot of local artists so I asked about Tom Grant's Mystified record. the guy asked me if it was "the good stuff" or "that electronic crap". I hate jazz purists.

    I mean how can someone who likes a style of music that is based on innovation and improvisation be so narrow minded. Huh Wynton? Huh? How do you do it?

    These guys are so into "giants" that they miss the music. Armstrong, Clark, Gillespie, Davis but then Davis and Gillespie started making that electronic crap. There you have a list of every trumpeter they care about, all other trumpeters are forgotten as insignificant. Until Wynton saved jazz.

    The baseball doc was real good. Like Wynton, Burns uses a formula. All his films are stylisticly identical.

    Dan

  • luckluck 4,077 Posts
    Wouldn't that be the hotness!?



    Oh, shit. Post of the year. I couldn't stop laughing.



    (zooming in on a sepia-toned EWF's "Spirit" album cover):

    "The advent of larger, more free-spirited, themed-costume-wearing ensembles like Earth, Wind, And Fire and latter-day Parliament/Funkedelic issued in a different era of Funk Music: a genre now classified as 'Post-Psychedelic Happy-Time Funk.'"

  • KineticKinetic 3,739 Posts
    Didn't ken Burns record an Australian-only Lp while he was here in the summer of '69? I think George Golla was on Bass and Kerrie Biddell did back-up vocals.

    Sangster on vibes.










































  • motown67motown67 4,513 Posts
    All his films are stylisticly identical.

    Dan

    YES!

    1) Slow moving pace

    2) Lots of talking heads

    3) Still photos with "voice of god" style talk overs by narrator

    4) Grand man of history form of story telling. He'll focus on a couple people as the foundations of the subject and talk about them until the series is over, hence Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong are talked about all the way up to the 1970s, way past their prime and relevance to the modern transformations of Jazz at that time.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts

    Ken Burns = Rickey Vincent.

    Vincent's book is the FUNK BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!


  • Ken Burns = Rickey Vincent.

    Vincent's book is the FUNK BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!

    Jeebus, I hope you're kidding...

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts

    Ken Burns = Rickey Vincent.

    Vincent's book is the FUNK BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!

    Jeebus, I hope you're kidding...
    Educate me with a better example. please.


  • Ken Burns = Rickey Vincent.

    Vincent's book is the FUNK BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!

    Jeebus, I hope you're kidding...
    Educate me with a better example. please.

    Anyone on this board with a halway decent grasp of funk. If your idea of funk is incessant rambling about mid to late 70's major label stuff then Vincent's your man. Other than that he's a well known joke.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts

    Ken Burns = Rickey Vincent.

    Vincent's book is the FUNK BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!

    Jeebus, I hope you're kidding...
    Educate me with a better example. please.

    Anyone on this board with a halway decent grasp of funk. If your idea of funk is incessant rambling about mid to late 70's major label stuff then Vincent's your man. Other than that he's a well known joke.

    Whoa nelly............. hes discussing the pocket years. Your looking for the pre industrialized history, I couldnt tell ya. You havent presented an alternative book. Cmon 16 U gotta have something that sheds light on the genre.


  • Ken Burns = Rickey Vincent.

    Vincent's book is the FUNK BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!

    Jeebus, I hope you're kidding...
    Educate me with a better example. please.

    Anyone on this board with a halway decent grasp of funk. If your idea of funk is incessant rambling about mid to late 70's major label stuff then Vincent's your man. Other than that he's a well known joke.

    Whoa nelly............. hes discussing the pocket years. Your looking for the pre industrialized history, I couldnt tell ya. You havent presented an alternative book. Cmon 16 U gotta have something that sheds light on the genre.


    If you mean is there another book about funk? Not that I know of. That doesn't mean Vincent's book is any good.
    There are plenty of folks on (and off) the board that write about/research funk and soul on the reg ( myself included ) .

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Isnt any good? There is another book on funk called simply "funk" Its more of an artist description/albums breakdown book. Its informative but Vincent's I feel addressed some of the cultural influences Funk has, especially in the 1970s. Hip hop is a direct descendant from that(major labels)era.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    If you mean is there another book about funk? Not that I know of. That doesn't mean Vincent's book is any good.
    There are plenty of folks on (and off) the board that write about/research funk and soul on the reg ( myself included ) .
    Sounds like Senator Palpatine discrediting the Jedi,while trying to convince Anakin to join him.

  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts
    If your idea of funk is incessant rambling about mid to late 70's major label stuff then Vincent's your man.

    even with the major label stuff there were some oversights. i dont remember (warner bros. recording artists) charles wright & the watts band getting a shitload of coverage, just a cursory mention.

  • If you mean is there another book about funk? Not that I know of. That doesn't mean Vincent's book is any good.
    There are plenty of folks on (and off) the board that write about/research funk and soul on the reg ( myself included ) .

    Sounds like Senator Palpatine discrediting the Jedi,while trying to convince Anakin to join him.
    Eehh?

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    If your idea of funk is incessant rambling about mid to late 70's major label stuff then Vincent's your man.

    even with the major label stuff there were some oversights. i dont remember (warner bros. recording artists) charles wright & the watts band getting a shitload of coverage, just a cursory mention.

    That book is trash. How you gonna call Grover Washington Jr.'s Reed Seed album "A FUNK BOMB!!!" and then virtually ignore major acts like Charles Wright and the Meters?

    It goes well beyond a question of debatable personal taste--that book is just irresponsible.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    If your idea of funk is incessant rambling about mid to late 70's major label stuff then Vincent's your man.

    even with the major label stuff there were some oversights. i dont remember (warner bros. recording artists) charles wright & the watts band getting a shitload of coverage, just a cursory mention.

    That book is trash. How you gonna call Grover Washington Jr.'s Reed Seed album "A FUNK BOMB!!!" and then virtually ignore major acts like Charles Wright and the Meters?

    It goes well beyond a question of debatable personal taste--that book is just irresponsible.


    Shhhhhh...I got 3 dudes on the hook for that "hard-to-find-FUNKBOMB" Reed Seed LP!
    For funkateers only, haters!






  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    If your idea of funk is incessant rambling about mid to late 70's major label stuff then Vincent's your man.

    even with the major label stuff there were some oversights. i dont remember (warner bros. recording artists) charles wright & the watts band getting a shitload of coverage, just a cursory mention.

    That book is trash. How you gonna call Grover Washington Jr.'s Reed Seed album "A FUNK BOMB!!!" and then virtually ignore major acts like Charles Wright and the Meters?

    It goes well beyond a question of debatable personal taste--that book is just irresponsible.
    I totally disagree with these assessments. There isnt a book that better sheds light on the pocket era. Yes some of his choices like Kam's first album being the bomb is wrong but the shortcomings dont out weight the good shit. Go to his website. Ill have to retract "the Bible" claim, but Ill continue to place this book at the forefront until someone publishes something more definitive.

  • R Vincent's intentions are good, but his book seemingly reflects nothing more his own personal funk mind garden. I'm sure he is a nice fellow, many of my friends have taken his class.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    If your idea of funk is incessant rambling about mid to late 70's major label stuff then Vincent's your man.

    even with the major label stuff there were some oversights. i dont remember (warner bros. recording artists) charles wright & the watts band getting a shitload of coverage, just a cursory mention.

    That book is trash. How you gonna call Grover Washington Jr.'s Reed Seed album "A FUNK BOMB!!!" and then virtually ignore major acts like Charles Wright and the Meters?

    It goes well beyond a question of debatable personal taste--that book is just irresponsible.
    I totally disagree with these assessments. There isnt a book that better sheds light on the pocket era. Yes some of his choices like Kam's first album being the bomb is wrong but the shortcomings dont out weight the good shit. Go to his website. Ill have to retract "the Bible" claim, but Ill continue to place this book at the forefront until someone publishes something more definitive.

    There is no other book-length survey of "funk"--that doesn't mean that Vincent's book is any good.

    Why are those two ideas so difficult for you to reconcile?

  • BamboucheBambouche 1,484 Posts
    There is no other book-length survey of "funk"...

    Asprin and I are working to change that. Our book is going to be, well, different. Like a coloring book that comes with no crayons. Like a lot of answers to questions nobody asked. Like a choose your own adventure, and all roads lead to records. Like pornography for people who scrutinize the dead wax. Private mind garden bathroom (or bedroom) reading. Sheen (no archaic) pages that are easy to wipe clean (ayo!?). The writing will be in the style of all things record-related.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Callin it trash is quite extreme. Trash means no worthy information.
    Smells like Haterade, looks like Haterade, Must be .........

    Believe me, im not one of these Madlib-like rabid fans who cant have something they've enjoyed be challenged by his/her peers. But calling it trash is an overstatement.

  • There is no other book-length survey of "funk"...

    Asprin and I are working to change that. Our book is going to be, well, different. Like a coloring book that comes with no crayons. Like a lot of answers to questions nobody asked. Like a choose your own adventure, and all roads lead to records. Like pornography for people who scrutinize the dead wax. Private mind garden bathroom (or bedroom) reading. Sheen (no archaic) pages that are easy to wipe clean (ayo!?). The writing will be in the style of all things record-related.

    I'll buy that one...

  • Callin it trash is quite extreme. Trash means no worthy information.
    Smells like Haterade, looks like Haterade, Must be .........



    To avoid violating trademarks, "Haterade" will henceforth be known as "Hate Gravy", "Hate Sauce", or just "Hate"...[/b]

  • DCarfagnaDCarfagna 983 Posts
    There isnt a book that better sheds light on the pocket era.



    WTF is the "pocket era?"



    Vincent's book, while an effort, is sort of like writing a book about the history of hip-hop and focusing on MC Brains, Zhigge and the Chicago Bears Shuffling Crew.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    There isnt a book that better sheds light on the pocket era.

    WTF is the "pocket era?"

    Vincent's book, while an effort, is sort of like writing a book about the history hip-hop and focusing on MC Brains, Zhigge and the Chicago Bears Shuffling Crew.

    to be fair, it would also have included Run DMC and the Beastie Boys.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    If your idea of funk is incessant rambling about mid to late 70's major label stuff then Vincent's your man.

    even with the major label stuff there were some oversights. i dont remember (warner bros. recording artists) charles wright & the watts band getting a shitload of coverage, just a cursory mention.

    That book is trash. How you gonna call Grover Washington Jr.'s Reed Seed album "A FUNK BOMB!!!" and then virtually ignore major acts like Charles Wright and the Meters?

    It goes well beyond a question of debatable personal taste--that book is just irresponsible.
    I totally disagree with these assessments. There isnt a book that better sheds light on the pocket era. Yes some of his choices like Kam's first album being the bomb is wrong but the shortcomings dont out weight the good shit. Go to his website. Ill have to retract "the Bible" claim, but Ill continue to place this book at the forefront until someone publishes something more definitive.

    You could learn more about funk by going back and reading the Bootsy vs Larry Graham thread.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    There isnt a book that better sheds light on the pocket era.

    WTF is the "pocket era?"

    Vincent's book, while an effort, is sort of like writing a book about the history of hip-hop and focusing on MC Brains, Zhigge and the Chicago Bears Shuffling Crew.
    Most of the hip hop public has anointed the "Golden Age" being 87/88 to 91/92.Ill go on record agreeing with Vincent's take on The Funk's most prolific time, which im loosely describing a "the pocket". Mc. Brains isnt Mandrill, Zhigge isnt The Headhunters, and CBS Crew isnt Fishbone. There is no parallel.

    PS> Im light years from El Sparko.
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