Real Things In The World, Part II (NRR)
The_Non
5,691 Posts
See, while I'm sickened by Michael Richards's display onstage and cannot watch Seinfeld with the same enthusiasm I previously had, this is news below that A) Has major ramifications and B) Says a lot about our society. A lady can pass a note of suspected "intent" of misdoing by other parties and they get yanked from a plane. Lame. By Michael Conlon CHICAGO (Reuters) - Muslim leaders expressed outrage on Tuesday after six imams were removed from a commercial airline flight in Minnesota for what they said was nothing more than trying to say evening prayers. "They were treated like terrorists ... humiliated," said Abu Hannoud, civil rights director for the Arizona chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, who said the men were taken off the US Airways flight in handcuffs.He said the men were still trying to find a flight back to Phoenix where most are affiliated with a major mosque after the carrier refused them passage following the incident on Monday evening."We are concerned that crew members, passengers and security personnel may have succumbed to fear and prejudice based on stereotyping of Muslims and Islam," added Nihad Awad, executive director of the council, in a statement from the group's Washington headquarters."We call on relevant authorities to investigate whether proper procedures were followed by security personnel and members of the US Airways flight crew," he said.The group said the men told it they were accused of "suspicious activity," which they believed was only their attempt to pray.Hannoud said in an interview that the men had been attending a three-day meeting of the North American Imams Federation in the Minneapolis area "discussing how to build bridges" between Muslims and American society, and that the FBI and local police had been informed in advance about the meeting."They were rewarded by being treated like terrorists," he said. "Their humiliation is really a humiliation for the entire Muslim community," he added, and further proof that Islam phobia is a growing problem in the United States.Patrick Hogan, spokesman for the Minneapolis-St. Paul Metropolitan Airports Commission, said the airline asked airport police to remove the six men from the Minneapolis to Phoenix flight because their actions were "arousing some concerns" among both passengers and crew.He said the men had been praying at the gate area but he did not know if they tried to pray once at their seats inside the plane.He also said some witnesses reported the men were making anti-American statements involving the Iraq war, asked to change seats once inside the cabin, that one requested an extender to make his seat belt larger even though he did not appear to need it and that in general "there was some peculiar behavior."US Airways issued a statement saying it was "diligently conducting our own investigation ... We are debriefing crew members and ground personnel as well as working with law enforcement."The carrier said it is "always concerned when passengers are inconvenienced and especially concerned when a situation occurs that causes customers to feel their dignity was compromised. We do not tolerate discrimination of any kind and will continue to exhaust our internal investigation until we know the facts of this case."Hogan said the men were questioned by local police, the FBI and federal security officials and released. Under normal procedures, he said, people taken off a flight under those circumstances would have been handcuffed, though he did not know if they were in this case.
Comments
In my opinion, incidents like the one described above are often times provoced just to spread an outrage and to fuel antiwestern sentiments on the arab world (just call to mind the ridiculous caricature campaign).
Your friend is a moron.
A short and poignant statement that without giving away too much information, instantaneously provides you with the friendly aura of literate intelect and sophistication.
Important factoid. In addition to this, I pray when I get on a plane. Maybe I'm next to be yanked off because I don't like flying and look mildly like a Middle Eastern dude.
ziiinngggg.
But seriously. The article says they had been praying before[/b] they got on the plane. And whilst on the plane, were "accused of "suspicious activity," which they believed was only their attempt to pray." It then goes on to elaborate on this "suspicious activity"
He also said some witnesses reported the men were making anti-American statements involving the Iraq war, asked to change seats once inside the cabin, that one requested an extender to make his seat belt larger even though he did not appear to need it and that in general "there was some peculiar behaviour."
Which suggests that it was just paranoia, on the side of the flight crew and public, maybe with some anti Islamic feeling also.
As for you quote Frank, these were six Imams, the Muslim equivalent of a catholic priest, so I think, with the greatest respect to your friend Anadou, they would know a lot more about Islam, and its rules. And are far from idiots, as you described them.
As for his statement that "arab men are wicked and only africans understand the real truth of Islam and know how to practice their religion peacefuly" its just bigoted and ignorant. Not to mention plain wrong. For example, France has a huge problem with Muslim extremists, most of which are of African decent. Also, the copycat bombing, that took place in London, after the 7/7 attacks, was carried out by Muslims of African decent. Not to mention, that in no place, in the article above, does it mention the mens ethnicity at all. They may have well been African's, so I don't see why you would even bring up his anti Arab feelings at all.
I don't even know what to say about this.
Didn't any of them stop to say "Hey guys... We're not the most popular folks in America right now, especially in airports. Maybe we should play it cool and we can all pray when we get home. The last thing we need to do is cause a scene and freak people out..."
Is that really so unreasonable? If I was Arab I would sit still and shut the fuck up so some knucklehead redneck wannabe hero doesn't try to pull some silly shit on me, you know? The last thing I would do is make a scene in the airport. Is that fair? Maybe not, but at the same time, people are still jumpy about airports, so chill the fuck out.
Maybe I'm just a little grumpy because I'm still here at work and everybody has taken the day off.
I just have to think that there are average joe type muslims hearing about this shit and the kid at UCLA thinking "dammit guys, you're just making shit worse for the rest of us."
Somebody in my office is playing the guitar. slack day.
"Jewish leaders in Montreal criticized the move as insensitive, saying the flight attendants should have explained to the other passengers that the man was simply praying and doing no harm."
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!
The flight attendant should have explained to HIM that he was freaking people out, so please knock it off. Except she couldn't, because he didn't speak french or english. Jesus Christ. Guess what? You don't get a free pass to do whatever the fuck you want on planes!!!! arrrrrg!
I also can't help but think how the situation might have been made better if these guys would have made a point tell the people sitting around waiting for the plane with them, "hey, look, we are priests... we don't mean to freak you out, but would it disturb anyone here if we said out evening prayer?" this would be courteous, and possibly diffuse the situation before it started.
U.S. Airways should have politely asked those who showed concern to exit the plane and seek transportation with another, less sensitive airline.
Let's face it, it's 2006 and we haven't had a hijacking in five years because our Homeland Security has made it virtually impossible to happen again.
So if you find yourself on a plane, with five Muslim clerics, and the thought crosses your mind that they MAY be terrorists you need to bite your tongue and realize that their Civil Rights are much more important than any crazy notion that you or your family's life might be in danger.
George Bush personally guarantees your safety, and that should be enough to eliminate any of these potentially racist thoughts from your mind.
Happy Holiday Flying......and keep your damn mouth shut!!
I don't have any personal sentiments against anybody based on race or religion. I do however hate few things more than people forcing their (religious or political) beliefs onto other people.
Outrage is a very strong tool to convince people of a certain belief, it's like saying "look how they're treating us, those evil heretics".
To artificaly create scenes like the one described is a strategic tool.
I don't have much respect for catholic priests neither, by the way.
When I say Africa, I mean the subsaharan part of the continent. Not Algeria or Tunesia.
Amadou is neither ingorant nor iliterate, in fact he's quite inteligent, speaks fluent english, french and 5 tribal languages. His resentments against the arabian influence on his society are based on facts and day to day experiences. I could fill pages and pages with my own observations down here that I made within the past 15 months but don't have the time to do so, not even to speak of the work it would take to respond to further comments by everybody. Just do some simple investigations yourself (anybody who gives a damn about this topic): Find out how many Mosques were build with Saudi Arabian and Iranian money within the past ten years. Then find out how many hospitals were financed by those countries (both in subsaharan Africa).
Ah, let's just forget about the whole damn thing, I should have kept my mouth shut... sorry.
HAHAHA! Awesome.
all due respect man, but
I wouldn't because I've studied Islam. Maybe more people should pick up some books instead of being reactionary cocksuckers like you. I'm vigilant of everyone, but I would need a quite a bit more evidence than pre-flight prayers, an extended seat belt, and saying the war in Iraq is a bunk play when talking to friends.
Frank, its always a pleasure to talk with someone who can voice a grown up opinion. So no need to keep your mouth shut at all.
I grew up around Pakistani Muslims, so I thought I understood a bit about the religion. But where I'm living at the moment, in the last few years, there's been a lot of Somalian immigrants, who may not have a completely different take on Islam, but pretty different from a second or third generation Pakistani/English kid. So I realise its probably very different where you are.
Do they have cast system where you are? Even being British with our ridiculous class system, the cast system has always freak me out. From the kids at school regularly beating up this one boy, purely because he was of a lower cast. To an India friend of mine, who is the most down to earth guy you could meet, buy happens to be from one of the highest casts. If we ever met another Indian, he would always avoid giving them a credit card or giving his full name, because some would behave like he was royalty.
What really disturbs me is that there is a big rise of fundamentalist muslims, when I first moved here, it was a total exception to see a woman all covered up. Guinean coiture on the oposite manages to taylor skintight costumes out of gorgeous, colorful cotton without any elastics in a way that basicaly every pore shows through... within a bit more than a year now, you see about two to four women a day with- I don't know what to call it, it's not a burka but a thick black veil that covers the entire face and body, makes you wonder how they can see and of course how they can stand the steamy heat around here. regular folks call them "Ninjas" in a joking manner. Amadou as well as other local have told me that Imans, Clanleaders or sons of those get invited to schooling trips to Saudi Arabia and Iran. They come back and tell their wifes to cover themselves up, then they try to "convert" moderate muslims to do the same. It is said that they get money for each convert.
Another example: We visited the provincial region of Fouta Djallon for the first time in February this year. Next to the Hotel is a Mosque and each morning at around 5 we got waken up by the amplified and completely distorted yells "Allah Akbar..." this went on for about 5 minutes and we could turn around and sleep again. On our last visit, the yelling started at 4 in the morning and was loud enough to put the scare in you. with irregular breaks, the yellling continued for about an hour and a half. This makes no sense because there is no need to call for prayer at 4 in the morning. This is just, as the (muslim) hotel manager explained a strategie to keep tourists and thereby unwanted, decadent western influence away.
Same thing happened to us at a (predominantely christian) fisher village on the Freetown peninsula we had stayed a few weeks earlier.
Ah, I could go on and on...
anyway, my original point was that I think incidents as the one mentioned in the OG post are willingly provoked or fabricated to be used as propaganda material.
Then I quoted Amadou to show that even muslim folks around here don't all buy into this stuff. His "wicked" comment was also made in a rather joking manner.
I also sometimes say things in a provocative and cynic way, but deep inside, I'm a lover and not a hater! So sorry again if I have offended anyone, I'm sure it'll happen again.
1. If you really knew much about islam your suspicions would be intensified rather than diminished. Rather than being rabid 'islamophobes' I find the bulk of americans happy to accept the fallacious idea(as promoted by the 'islamophobic' bush administration, how many times has bush himself uttered that trite phrase 'islam is a religion of peace'?) that the ideology of islamic terrorists is a recent innovation and essentially aline to 'true' islam. The truth being that it dates back to mohammed himself and can be supported by a vast number of entries in both the quran and hadith.
2. If a group of muslims were chanting odes to allah on the plane and popping shit about the US then you would be WARY AS FUCK. DO NOT LIE. Anyone who claims to be free of anything that could be construed as prejudice, which would entail never coming to a conclusion unless armed with complete information which is something we never have, is a LIAR.
They weren't doing that. If they were, sure, that would be cause for concern.
I've read the Qu'ran champ, have you?
While the Qu'ran does have many suras that focus on destruction of infidels, non-believers and fake believers, overall, the religion of Islam at its core is a religion of peace, understanding, and search for knowledge, both of self and of God. It is the PEOPLE and their INTERPRETATIONS of Islam that have become increasingly problematic (in my opinion) since the time of Muhammad. For instance the concept of Ijtihad or "investigative reasoning" was outlawed in the 15th and 16th centuries in many Islamic countries, thereby limiting the quest for knowledge, technology and discovery and creating a Luddite atmosphere in many of those same countries.
Even if you read the Qu'ran backwards and forwards and understood every word how would it help you distinquish whether or not someone carrying a Qu'ran was a "true" believer or someone who's focus is to kill all the infidels??