What is that supposed to mean? That fucking guy is probably dead. There hasn't been a credible lead on him in 2 years.
Look, I don't have time to engage you in this, ESPECIALLY since you're the worst person to have a debate with seeing as how you never address the questions you're posed. I am fully aware there is a very real threat to this country, but a system of checks and balances needs to remain in place. Look at the precepts of what this country was founded upon. You don't have absolute power because you're the president.
This goes beyond Democrat and Republican. Things happening now will have a lasting effect on our future. Cut the bullshit and open your eyes.
You are again tardy with your book report. Do you really believe in the Bush Strategy or are you anti-dem? I never get the sense you really like Bush that much. Just that you despise the dems who you see as weak.
BTW how do you see this Iraq thing playing out if we stay there?
People need to get off this left/right hate rant bullshit. Clinton's as bad as Bush. Look at how buddy-buddy Bill and HW are.
HW was no where near as bad W. HW was a hands off president when it came to domestic policy and was interested in fiscal responsibility. W has advanced a radical agenda designed to dismantle most of the federal government through mismanagement and underfunding. His success at bankrupting the federal government is part of that plan. The failures of FEMA, NCLB, Medicare are all part of the long term goal of dismantling the FEMA, the Education Department, and Medicare/Medicaid.
As for Bill Clinton I hated him when he was president too. Free Trade, Intellectual Property Rights, Bombing Iraq... By comparison to W he was the best president ever.
He probably believes all of those heathen Islamofacists deserves to be tortured.
I believe that there are Islmofacists, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them, that need to be killed/tortured/eliminated before they follow their dreams to do the same to us.
And if you don't believe that there are a number of them out there that want YOUR ASS dead then you're a fool.
He probably believes all of those heathen Islamofacists deserves to be tortured.
I believe that there are Islmofacists, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them, that need to be killed/tortured/eliminated before they follow their dreams to do the same to us.
And if you don't believe that there are a number of them out there that want YOUR ASS dead then you're a fool.
Ehh... I think Mike is pretty well aware that there are a number of "Islamofascists" that want his ass dead. One probably learns that pretty quickly in Iraq.
So far we've got a student at NYU law, a guy who lives in the UK, and Texas psych dealer holding it down for torture. Clearly, the mainstream of America.
If you think that was a good look for your dude, you're pretty out of step with the human race.[/b]
All Bush/Monkey comparisons aside, El Presidente comes off looking like an enraged baboon rattling the bars of his enclosure. I was waiting for him to pick up some of his poo and throw it at Lauer. Definietly the bug-eyed ranting of a guy that is clearly out of answers (if he ever had them).
What the fuck are you talking about? g-dub shut shit down. I wish he was always in yo blair mode like this. straight real talk.
Real desperate, crazy talk from a guy that is at the end of his rope, ideologically and otherwise. Clips like that demonstrate why so much of what passes for policy statements from this administration are handled by people who might at least be described as articulate. Bush isn't equipped to communicate on a level above that used by people who use phrases like "towelhead". He looked angry and out of control. Not exactly what most folks like to see in a president.
He probably believes all of those heathen Islamofacists deserves to be tortured.
I believe that there are Islmofacists, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them, that need to be killed/tortured/eliminated before they follow their dreams to do the same to us.
And if you don't believe that there are a number of them out there that want YOUR ASS dead then you're a fool.
Ehh... I think Mike is pretty well aware that there are a number of "Islamofascists" that want his ass dead. One probably learns that pretty quickly in Iraq.
So far we've got a student at NYU law, a guy who lives in the UK, and Texas psych dealer holding it down for torture. Clearly, the mainstream of America.
Pfft..I assume the mainstream of America consists of stoned NYC Record Store owners??
And I only support killing our enemies after we ask them politely to stop committing acts of terrorism, pretty please with ice cream on top.
And it's the people living here in the U.S., not Iraq, that need to recognize that certain people want them dead and are on a overzealous religious quest to make it happen.
As they say down here in the state most of you love to hate...."Some people need killin'"
He probably believes all of those heathen Islamofacists deserves to be tortured.
I believe that there are Islmofacists, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them, that need to be killed/tortured/eliminated before they follow their dreams to do the same to us.
And if you don't believe that there are a number of them out there that want YOUR ASS dead then you're a fool.
Ehh... I think Mike is pretty well aware that there are a number of "Islamofascists" that want his ass dead. One probably learns that pretty quickly in Iraq.
So far we've got a student at NYU law, a guy who lives in the UK, and Texas psych dealer holding it down for torture. Clearly, the mainstream of America.
Pfft..I assume the mainstream of America consists of stoned NYC Record Store owners??
And I only support killing our enemies after we ask them politely to stop committing acts of terrorism, pretty please with ice cream on top.
And it's the people living here in the U.S., not Iraq, that need to recognize that certain people want them dead and are on a overzealous religious quest to make it happen.
As they say down here in the state most of you love to hate...."Some people need killin'"
The vast majority of Americans do not support torture. Neither does our military. In fact, the Army (at the same time as our President was trying to fix his mouth to say "alternative interogation techniques") issued a new, more specific interrogation manual just so's that the policy is crystal clear.
It was opined recently that this was because "our army wants to win the war, not the midterm elections."
There is no single respectable explanation for using torture to coerce information. The information itself is not reliable. Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and our eastern European CIA detention centers have created more Jihadis and endangered more Americans than any other military action. That is just fact.
He probably believes all of those heathen Islamofacists deserves to be tortured.
I believe that there are Islmofacists, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them, that need to be killed/tortured/eliminated before they follow their dreams to do the same to us.
And if you don't believe that there are a number of them out there that want YOUR ASS dead then you're a fool.
Ehh... I think Mike is pretty well aware that there are a number of "Islamofascists" that want his ass dead. One probably learns that pretty quickly in Iraq.
So far we've got a student at NYU law, a guy who lives in the UK, and Texas psych dealer holding it down for torture. Clearly, the mainstream of America.
Pfft..I assume the mainstream of America consists of stoned NYC Record Store owners??
And I only support killing our enemies after we ask them politely to stop committing acts of terrorism, pretty please with ice cream on top.
And it's the people living here in the U.S., not Iraq, that need to recognize that certain people want them dead and are on a overzealous religious quest to make it happen.
As they say down here in the state most of you love to hate...."Some people need killin'"
The vast majority of Americans do not support torture. Neither does our military. In fact, the Army (at the same time as our President was trying to fix his mouth to say "alternative interogation techniques") issued a new, more specific interrogation manual just so's that the policy is crystal clear.
It was opined recently that this was because "our army wants to win the war, not the midterm elections."
There is no single respectable explanation for using torture to coerce information. The information itself is not reliable. Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and our eastern European CIA detention centers have created more Jihadis and endangered more Americans than any other military action. That is just fact.
Jonny....would you knowingly get into a NYC street fight if you had to follow the Marquis Of Queensbury rules but your opponent could do whatever the hell he wanted, including chopping off your head?
Rich - that's not an effective analogy - our soldiers get tortured for sport, before they are killed. We are after effective intelligence, which is not gained through torture.
He probably believes all of those heathen Islamofacists deserves to be tortured.
I believe that there are Islmofacists, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them, that need to be killed/tortured/eliminated before they follow their dreams to do the same to us.
And if you don't believe that there are a number of them out there that want YOUR ASS dead then you're a fool.
Ehh... I think Mike is pretty well aware that there are a number of "Islamofascists" that want his ass dead. One probably learns that pretty quickly in Iraq.
So far we've got a student at NYU law, a guy who lives in the UK, and Texas psych dealer holding it down for torture. Clearly, the mainstream of America.
Pfft..I assume the mainstream of America consists of stoned NYC Record Store owners??
And I only support killing our enemies after we ask them politely to stop committing acts of terrorism, pretty please with ice cream on top.
And it's the people living here in the U.S., not Iraq, that need to recognize that certain people want them dead and are on a overzealous religious quest to make it happen.
As they say down here in the state most of you love to hate...."Some people need killin'"
The vast majority of Americans do not support torture. Neither does our military. In fact, the Army (at the same time as our President was trying to fix his mouth to say "alternative interogation techniques") issued a new, more specific interrogation manual just so's that the policy is crystal clear.
It was opined recently that this was because "our army wants to win the war, not the midterm elections."
There is no single respectable explanation for using torture to coerce information. The information itself is not reliable. Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and our eastern European CIA detention centers have created more Jihadis and endangered more Americans than any other military action. That is just fact.
They just say torture doesnt work so you think they arent using it.
He probably believes all of those heathen Islamofacists deserves to be tortured.
I believe that there are Islmofacists, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them, that need to be killed/tortured/eliminated before they follow their dreams to do the same to us.
And if you don't believe that there are a number of them out there that want YOUR ASS dead then you're a fool.
Ehh... I think Mike is pretty well aware that there are a number of "Islamofascists" that want his ass dead. One probably learns that pretty quickly in Iraq.
So far we've got a student at NYU law, a guy who lives in the UK, and Texas psych dealer holding it down for torture. Clearly, the mainstream of America.
Pfft..I assume the mainstream of America consists of stoned NYC Record Store owners??
And I only support killing our enemies after we ask them politely to stop committing acts of terrorism, pretty please with ice cream on top.
And it's the people living here in the U.S., not Iraq, that need to recognize that certain people want them dead and are on a overzealous religious quest to make it happen.
As they say down here in the state most of you love to hate...."Some people need killin'"
The vast majority of Americans do not support torture. Neither does our military. In fact, the Army (at the same time as our President was trying to fix his mouth to say "alternative interogation techniques") issued a new, more specific interrogation manual just so's that the policy is crystal clear.
It was opined recently that this was because "our army wants to win the war, not the midterm elections."
There is no single respectable explanation for using torture to coerce information. The information itself is not reliable. Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and our eastern European CIA detention centers have created more Jihadis and endangered more Americans than any other military action. That is just fact.
They just say torture doesnt work so you think they arent using it.
I don't believe much of what I hear and read, but I'll take the army's word over yours.
He probably believes all of those heathen Islamofacists deserves to be tortured.
I believe that there are Islmofacists, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them, that need to be killed/tortured/eliminated before they follow their dreams to do the same to us.
And if you don't believe that there are a number of them out there that want YOUR ASS dead then you're a fool.
BAN!
Bell is an American hero so you can get the fuck out of here with that shit.
It might surprise you that the US ARMY does not appreciate being used as a political tool. The US Military does not appreciate being sent into a war on false pretenses, without the resources to win. The US Military does not want to be party to torture just so you can get your jollies off looking at photos of people you hate being led around on a leash.
So take your chicken hawk yellow bellied torture wanking ass out of here.
Rich - that's not an effective analogy - our soldiers get tortured for sport, before they are killed. We are after effective intelligence, which is not gained through torture.
So if we tortured and killed them for sport then we'd be on an even playing field.
How funny do you think a conversation between two Muslim terrorists might be as they say.... "We chopped the head off of the Great Satan's soldier and we shall be rewarded by Allah. They chop up one of our holy books and they go to jail.......bahahahahahaha!".
Think maybe THEY believe in the wussification of America??
Rich, Americans don't like torture because we believe in a universal standard of humane treatment of prisoners even in wartime. It has nothing to do with being wusses. We are not losing this war because we're wusses. We're losing this war because of the corrupt civilian government in Washington that has no idea how to fight it.
He probably believes all of those heathen Islamofacists deserves to be tortured.
I believe that there are Islmofacists, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them, that need to be killed/tortured/eliminated before they follow their dreams to do the same to us.
And if you don't believe that there are a number of them out there that want YOUR ASS dead then you're a fool.
BAN!
Bell is an American hero so you can get the fuck out of here with that shit.
It might surprise you that the US ARMY does not appreciate being used as a political tool. The US Military does not appreciate being sent into a war on false pretenses, without the resources to win. The US Military does not want to be party to torture just so you can get your jollies off looking at photos of people you hate being led around on a leash.
So take your chicken hawk yellow bellied torture wanking ass out of here.
If I was to leave SS.......
A) All the world's problems would be solved
B) George Bush would suddenly get a dose of intelligence and stop doing stupid things
C) Poor old Laser Wolf wouldn't have to read the ramblings of someone he feels is morally and intellectually inferior to him and he would stop having those terrible nightmares.
D) I'd have to commit suicide living with the thought that not everyone sees the world the way I do.
Rich, Americans don't like torture because we believe in a universal standard of humane treatment of prisoners even in wartime. It has nothing to do with being wusses. We are not losing this war because we're wusses. We're losing this war because of the corrupt civilian government in Washington that has no idea how to fight it.
Most Americans, including myself don't "like" killing either.......and I believe we could/should have won this war along time ago....it just would have been very ugly and uncomfortable to most Americans.
And many "innocent" people would have lost their lives just like in every other war ever fought.
and many americans realize that we should not have been in this war in the first place.
Well....not the ones who were voted into office to represent us.
And as a country we have to live with that.
but does not mean we have to support their bad decision making skills... ie. torture, ie. secret prisons, ie. falsifying information to go to war.
and having to live with who is in office has nothing to do with making anything barbaric ok, and the argument that they do it, so we should to is just immature. If they jump off a cliff, should we do it? They use suicide bombers, should we start doing that? c'mon.
and many americans realize that we should not have been in this war in the first place.
Well....not the ones who were voted into office to represent us.
And as a country we have to live with that.
but does not mean we have to support their bad decision making skills... ie. torture, ie. secret prisons, ie. falsifying information to go to war.
and having to live with who is in office has nothing to do with making anything barbaric ok, and the argument that they do it, so we should to is just immature. If they jump off a cliff, should we do it? They use suicide bombers, should we start doing that? c'mon.
I hear what you're saying but NOTHING I have read or heard about American torture is what I would call barbaric......I asked earlier for examples but got only
Understand that there are people who think that simply putting someone in a cell is "torture".
Someone please detail the inhumane torture that has been documented....and who specifically is performing it.
Facts only please.
How about a first hand account from an interrorgator?
Nama, it is said, stood for Nasty Ass Military Area. Jeff says there was a maverick, high-speed feeling to the place. Some of the interrogators had beards and long hair and everyone used only first names, even the officers. "When you ask somebody their name, they don't offer up the last name," Jeff says. "When they gave you their name it probably wasn't their real name anyway."
To this day, Jeff has no idea of the true names of his superior officers. His supervisor was a colonel who called himself Mike, although Jeff is sure that wasn't his real name.
It was a point of pride that the Red Cross would never be allowed in the door, Jeff says. This is important because it defied the Geneva Conventions, which require that the Red Cross have access to military prisons. "Once, somebody brought it up with the colonel. 'Will they ever be allowed in here?' And he said absolutely not. He had this directly from General McChrystal and the Pentagon that there's no way that the Red Cross could get in???they won't have access and they never will. This facility was completely closed off to anybody investigating, even Army investigators."
Given Task Force 121's history, that was a remarkable promise. Formed in the summer of 2003, it quickly became notorious. By August the CIA had already ordered its officers to avoid Camp Nama. Then two Iraqi men died following encounters with Navy Seals from Task Force 121???one at Abu Ghraib and one in Mosul???and an official investigation by a retired Army colonel named Stuart Herrington, first reported in The Washington Post, found evidence of widespread beatings. "Everyone knows about it," one Task Force officer told Herrington. Six months later, two FBI agents raised concerns about suspicious burn marks and other signs of harsh treatment. Then the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency reported that his men had seen evidence of prisoners with burn marks and bruises and once saw a Task Force member "punch [the] prisoner in the face to the point the individual needed medical attention." Despite this record, The New York Times has reported that as late as June 2005, the Army dropped yet another investigation into torture at Camp Nama because of the confusion created by the use of "battlefield pseudonyms." The confusion extends to the name of the task force itself, which is also known as Task Force 6-26 and Task Force 145.
During his first six or seven weeks at the camp, Jeff conducted or participated in about fifteen harsh interrogations, most involving the use of ice water to induce hypothermia. By his reckoning, at least half of the prisoners were innocent, just random Iraqis who got picked up for one reason or another. Sometimes the evidence against them was so slight, Jeff would go into the interrogation without even knowing their names.
and many americans realize that we should not have been in this war in the first place.
Well....not the ones who were voted into office to represent us.
And as a country we have to live with that.
but does not mean we have to support their bad decision making skills... ie. torture, ie. secret prisons, ie. falsifying information to go to war.
and having to live with who is in office has nothing to do with making anything barbaric ok, and the argument that they do it, so we should to is just immature. If they jump off a cliff, should we do it? They use suicide bombers, should we start doing that? c'mon.
I hear what you're saying but NOTHING I have read or heard about American torture is what I would call barbaric......I asked earlier for examples but got only
Understand that there are people who think that simply putting someone in a cell is "torture".
You didn't find the abuse at Abu Ghraib barbaric? You didn't find the reports fo Waterboarding barbaric? You don't find the fact that US has secret prisons in countries that are known to allow torture to be barbaric? I don't need to know every instance of torture to be able to infer from the facts that I do know that these types of abuses are disgusting and barbaric to me. And being that the "war" has changed form from WMD's to being a war "fought for civilization" as Mr. Bush noted, then what kind of civilization is OK with any kind of torture?
and many americans realize that we should not have been in this war in the first place.
Well....not the ones who were voted into office to represent us.
And as a country we have to live with that.
but does not mean we have to support their bad decision making skills... ie. torture, ie. secret prisons, ie. falsifying information to go to war.
and having to live with who is in office has nothing to do with making anything barbaric ok, and the argument that they do it, so we should to is just immature. If they jump off a cliff, should we do it? They use suicide bombers, should we start doing that? c'mon.
I hear what you're saying but NOTHING I have read or heard about American torture is what I would call barbaric......I asked earlier for examples but got only
Understand that there are people who think that simply putting someone in a cell is "torture".
You didn't find the abuse at Abu Ghraib barbaric? You didn't find the reports fo Waterboarding barbaric? You don't find the fact that US has secret prisons in countries that are known to allow torture to be barbaric? I don't need to know every instance of torture to be able to infer from the facts that I do know that these types of abuses are disgusting and barbaric to me. And being that the "war" has changed form from WMD's to being a war "fought for civilization" as Mr. Bush noted, then what kind of civilization is OK with any kind of torture?
No point talking to him. An hour ago all his posts were about how we need to do more torture or else we would be wusses and torture is the only way we can win. Now he's saying he doesn't think we ever commited torture and saying he's against it. He doesn't even have the balls to back what he believes.
and many americans realize that we should not have been in this war in the first place.
Well....not the ones who were voted into office to represent us.
And as a country we have to live with that.
but does not mean we have to support their bad decision making skills... ie. torture, ie. secret prisons, ie. falsifying information to go to war.
and having to live with who is in office has nothing to do with making anything barbaric ok, and the argument that they do it, so we should to is just immature. If they jump off a cliff, should we do it? They use suicide bombers, should we start doing that? c'mon.
I hear what you're saying but NOTHING I have read or heard about American torture is what I would call barbaric......I asked earlier for examples but got only
Understand that there are people who think that simply putting someone in a cell is "torture".
You didn't find the abuse at Abu Ghraib barbaric? You didn't find the reports fo Waterboarding barbaric? You don't find the fact that US has secret prisons in countries that are known to allow torture to be barbaric? I don't need to know every instance of torture to be able to infer from the facts that I do know that these types of abuses are disgusting and barbaric to me. And being that the "war" has changed form from WMD's to being a war "fought for civilization" as Mr. Bush noted, then what kind of civilization is OK with any kind of torture?
As far as putting naked prisoners in dog collars and walking them around I find that stupid, moronic, immature and possibly perverse.....but seriously....every college in America has a Fraternity who's initiation rituals are more barbaric.
My opinion is that there is a group of people in the Middle East and around the world who want to end the world as we know it. And I support any and all means to rid the earth of them just as we did to the Nazi's......I only wish we could do it without losing any American(or Allies) lives.
This is my opinion and the opinion of many Americans....you can ridicule it, ignore it or attack it.....but until you can convince me that I'm wrong and that my children and grandchildren will be safe from terror and terrorism, I support fighting those who perpetuate it and I believe are evil.
and many americans realize that we should not have been in this war in the first place.
Well....not the ones who were voted into office to represent us.
And as a country we have to live with that.
but does not mean we have to support their bad decision making skills... ie. torture, ie. secret prisons, ie. falsifying information to go to war.
and having to live with who is in office has nothing to do with making anything barbaric ok, and the argument that they do it, so we should to is just immature. If they jump off a cliff, should we do it? They use suicide bombers, should we start doing that? c'mon.
I hear what you're saying but NOTHING I have read or heard about American torture is what I would call barbaric......I asked earlier for examples but got only
Understand that there are people who think that simply putting someone in a cell is "torture".
You didn't find the abuse at Abu Ghraib barbaric? You didn't find the reports fo Waterboarding barbaric? You don't find the fact that US has secret prisons in countries that are known to allow torture to be barbaric? I don't need to know every instance of torture to be able to infer from the facts that I do know that these types of abuses are disgusting and barbaric to me. And being that the "war" has changed form from WMD's to being a war "fought for civilization" as Mr. Bush noted, then what kind of civilization is OK with any kind of torture?
No point talking to him. An hour ago all his posts were about how we need to do more torture or else we would be wusses and torture is the only way we can win. Now he's saying he doesn't think we ever commited torture and saying he's against it. He doesn't even have the balls to back what he believes.
and many americans realize that we should not have been in this war in the first place.
Well....not the ones who were voted into office to represent us.
And as a country we have to live with that.
but does not mean we have to support their bad decision making skills... ie. torture, ie. secret prisons, ie. falsifying information to go to war.
and having to live with who is in office has nothing to do with making anything barbaric ok, and the argument that they do it, so we should to is just immature. If they jump off a cliff, should we do it? They use suicide bombers, should we start doing that? c'mon.
I hear what you're saying but NOTHING I have read or heard about American torture is what I would call barbaric......I asked earlier for examples but got only
Understand that there are people who think that simply putting someone in a cell is "torture".
You didn't find the abuse at Abu Ghraib barbaric? You didn't find the reports fo Waterboarding barbaric? You don't find the fact that US has secret prisons in countries that are known to allow torture to be barbaric? I don't need to know every instance of torture to be able to infer from the facts that I do know that these types of abuses are disgusting and barbaric to me. And being that the "war" has changed form from WMD's to being a war "fought for civilization" as Mr. Bush noted, then what kind of civilization is OK with any kind of torture?
As far as putting naked prisoners in dog collars and walking them around I find that stupid, moronic, immature and possibly perverse.....but seriously....every college in America has a Fraternity who's initiation rituals are more barbaric.
My opinion is that there is a group of people in the Middle East and around the world who want to end the world as we know it. And I support any and all means to rid the earth of them just as we did to the Nazi's......I only wish we could do it without losing any American(or Allies) lives.
This is my opinion and the opinion of many Americans....you can ridicule it, ignore it or attack it.....but until you can convince me that I'm wrong and that my children and grandchildren will be safe from terror and terrorism, I support fighting those who perpetuate it and I believe are evil.
And I believe in fighting fire with fire.
I can appreciate your point but I think you see the conflict incorrectly. there is a big difference in fighting an insurgency/terrorist conflict and defeating a fascist state. One requires all out war and the other requires counter-insurgency methods like those used in N.Ireland by the Brits.
and many americans realize that we should not have been in this war in the first place.
Well....not the ones who were voted into office to represent us.
And as a country we have to live with that.
but does not mean we have to support their bad decision making skills... ie. torture, ie. secret prisons, ie. falsifying information to go to war.
and having to live with who is in office has nothing to do with making anything barbaric ok, and the argument that they do it, so we should to is just immature. If they jump off a cliff, should we do it? They use suicide bombers, should we start doing that? c'mon.
I hear what you're saying but NOTHING I have read or heard about American torture is what I would call barbaric......I asked earlier for examples but got only
Understand that there are people who think that simply putting someone in a cell is "torture".
You didn't find the abuse at Abu Ghraib barbaric? You didn't find the reports fo Waterboarding barbaric? You don't find the fact that US has secret prisons in countries that are known to allow torture to be barbaric? I don't need to know every instance of torture to be able to infer from the facts that I do know that these types of abuses are disgusting and barbaric to me. And being that the "war" has changed form from WMD's to being a war "fought for civilization" as Mr. Bush noted, then what kind of civilization is OK with any kind of torture?
As far as putting naked prisoners in dog collars and walking them around I find that stupid, moronic, immature and possibly perverse.....but seriously....every college in America has a Fraternity who's initiation rituals are more barbaric.
My opinion is that there is a group of people in the Middle East and around the world who want to end the world as we know it. And I support any and all means to rid the earth of them just as we did to the Nazi's......I only wish we could do it without losing any American(or Allies) lives.
This is my opinion and the opinion of many Americans....you can ridicule it, ignore it or attack it.....but until you can convince me that I'm wrong and that my children and grandchildren will be safe from terror and terrorism, I support fighting those who perpetuate it and I believe are evil.
And I believe in fighting fire with fire.
I can appreciate your point but I think you see the conflict incorrectly. there is a big difference in fighting an insurgency/terrorist conflict and defeating a fascist state. One requires all out war and the other requires counter-insurgency methods like those used in N.Ireland by the Brits.
I think that some folks have learned to "play" the Geneva Convention rules to their advantage. A facist state can support, house and even create terrorism but as long as they don't dress it up in their uniform and play by "the rules" they create the dilemna you describe above. There is no easy answer, but at some point in history "being safe rather than sorry" becomes way too real and definitive to pussyfoot around.
Comments
What is that supposed to mean? That fucking guy is probably dead. There hasn't been a credible lead on him in 2 years.
Look, I don't have time to engage you in this, ESPECIALLY since you're the worst person to have a debate with seeing as how you never address the questions you're posed.
I am fully aware there is a very real threat to this country, but a system of checks and balances needs to remain in place. Look at the precepts of what this country was founded upon. You don't have absolute power because you're the president.
This goes beyond Democrat and Republican. Things happening now will have a lasting effect on our future. Cut the bullshit and open your eyes.
You are again tardy with your book report. Do you really believe in the Bush Strategy or are you anti-dem? I never get the sense you really like Bush that much. Just that you despise the dems who you see as weak.
BTW how do you see this Iraq thing playing out if we stay there?
HW was no where near as bad W. HW was a hands off president when it came to domestic policy and was interested in fiscal responsibility. W has advanced a radical agenda designed to dismantle most of the federal government through mismanagement and underfunding. His success at bankrupting the federal government is part of that plan. The failures of FEMA, NCLB, Medicare are all part of the long term goal of dismantling the FEMA, the Education Department, and Medicare/Medicaid.
As for Bill Clinton I hated him when he was president too. Free Trade, Intellectual Property Rights, Bombing Iraq... By comparison to W he was the best president ever.
I believe that there are Islmofacists, or whatever politically correct name you want to call them, that need to be killed/tortured/eliminated before they follow their dreams to do the same to us.
And if you don't believe that there are a number of them out there that want YOUR ASS dead then you're a fool.
Ehh... I think Mike is pretty well aware that there are a number of "Islamofascists" that want his ass dead. One probably learns that pretty quickly in Iraq.
So far we've got a student at NYU law, a guy who lives in the UK, and Texas psych dealer holding it down for torture. Clearly, the mainstream of America.
Real desperate, crazy talk from a guy that is at the end of his rope, ideologically and otherwise. Clips like that demonstrate why so much of what passes for policy statements from this administration are handled by people who might at least be described as articulate. Bush isn't equipped to communicate on a level above that used by people who use phrases like "towelhead". He looked angry and out of control. Not exactly what most folks like to see in a president.
Pfft..I assume the mainstream of America consists of stoned NYC Record Store owners??
And I only support killing our enemies after we ask them politely to stop committing acts of terrorism, pretty please with ice cream on top.
And it's the people living here in the U.S., not Iraq, that need to recognize that certain people want them dead and are on a overzealous religious quest to make it happen.
As they say down here in the state most of you love to hate...."Some people need killin'"
I just want to say our boy stephen Harper has become lil george bush junior
he adressed the nations with huge canadian flags talking about the necessity of continued growing imploication in Afghanistan
fuck....
The vast majority of Americans do not support torture. Neither does our military. In fact, the Army (at the same time as our President was trying to fix his mouth to say "alternative interogation techniques") issued a new, more specific interrogation manual just so's that the policy is crystal clear.
It was opined recently that this was because "our army wants to win the war, not the midterm elections."
There is no single respectable explanation for using torture to coerce information. The information itself is not reliable. Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and our eastern European CIA detention centers have created more Jihadis and endangered more Americans than any other military action. That is just fact.
Jonny....would you knowingly get into a NYC street fight if you had to follow the Marquis Of Queensbury rules but your opponent could do whatever the hell he wanted, including chopping off your head?
Nope, neither would I and only a fool would.
They just say torture doesnt work so you think they arent using it.
I don't believe much of what I hear and read, but I'll take the army's word over yours.
BAN!
Bell is an American hero so you can get the fuck out of here with that shit.
It might surprise you that the US ARMY does not appreciate being used as a political tool. The US Military does not appreciate being sent into a war on false pretenses, without the resources to win. The US Military does not want to be party to torture just so you can get your jollies off looking at photos of people you hate being led around on a leash.
So take your chicken hawk yellow bellied torture wanking ass out of here.
So if we tortured and killed them for sport then we'd be on an even playing field.
How funny do you think a conversation between two Muslim terrorists might be as they say.... "We chopped the head off of the Great Satan's soldier and we shall be rewarded by Allah. They chop up one of our holy books and they go to jail.......bahahahahahaha!".
Think maybe THEY believe in the wussification of America??
And as far as "Ban" goes LW....grow the fuck up.
Facts only please.
If I was to leave SS.......
A) All the world's problems would be solved
B) George Bush would suddenly get a dose of intelligence and stop doing stupid things
C) Poor old Laser Wolf wouldn't have to read the ramblings of someone he feels is morally and intellectually inferior to him and he would stop having those terrible nightmares.
D) I'd have to commit suicide living with the thought that not everyone sees the world the way I do.
Most Americans, including myself don't "like" killing either.......and I believe we could/should have won this war along time ago....it just would have been very ugly and uncomfortable to most Americans.
And many "innocent" people would have lost their lives just like in every other war ever fought.
Well....not the ones who were voted into office to represent us.
And as a country we have to live with that.
but does not mean we have to support their bad decision making skills... ie. torture, ie. secret prisons, ie. falsifying information to go to war.
and having to live with who is in office has nothing to do with making anything barbaric ok, and the argument that they do it, so we should to is just immature. If they jump off a cliff, should we do it? They use suicide bombers, should we start doing that? c'mon.
I hear what you're saying but NOTHING I have read or heard about American torture is what I would call barbaric......I asked earlier for examples but got only
Understand that there are people who think that simply putting someone in a cell is "torture".
How about a first hand account from an interrorgator?
http://www.esquire.com/features/articles/2006/060706_mfe_August_06_Conscience_1.html
make of it what you will.
You didn't find the abuse at Abu Ghraib barbaric? You didn't find the reports fo Waterboarding barbaric? You don't find the fact that US has secret prisons in countries that are known to allow torture to be barbaric? I don't need to know every instance of torture to be able to infer from the facts that I do know that these types of abuses are disgusting and barbaric to me. And being that the "war" has changed form from WMD's to being a war "fought for civilization" as Mr. Bush noted, then what kind of civilization is OK with any kind of torture?
No point talking to him. An hour ago all his posts were about how we need to do more torture or else we would be wusses and torture is the only way we can win. Now he's saying he doesn't think we ever commited torture and saying he's against it. He doesn't even have the balls to back what he believes.
As far as putting naked prisoners in dog collars and walking them around I find that stupid, moronic, immature and possibly perverse.....but seriously....every college in America has a Fraternity who's initiation rituals are more barbaric.
My opinion is that there is a group of people in the Middle East and around the world who want to end the world as we know it. And I support any and all means to rid the earth of them just as we did to the Nazi's......I only wish we could do it without losing any American(or Allies) lives.
This is my opinion and the opinion of many Americans....you can ridicule it, ignore it or attack it.....but until you can convince me that I'm wrong and that my children and grandchildren will be safe from terror and terrorism, I support fighting those who perpetuate it and I believe are evil.
And I believe in fighting fire with fire.
You imagine some amazing shit.
I can appreciate your point but I think you see the conflict incorrectly. there is a big difference in fighting an insurgency/terrorist conflict and defeating a fascist state. One requires all out war and the other requires counter-insurgency methods like those used in N.Ireland by the Brits.
I think that some folks have learned to "play" the Geneva Convention rules to their advantage. A facist state can support, house and even create terrorism but as long as they don't dress it up in their uniform and play by "the rules" they create the dilemna you describe above. There is no easy answer, but at some point in history "being safe rather than sorry" becomes way too real and definitive to pussyfoot around.