Siths are Neocons are Siths are Neocons

DenmarkVZDenmarkVZ 397 Posts
edited May 2005 in Strut Central
Was there a thread about this?

The Case for the Empire
From the May 16, 2002 Daily Standard: Everything you think you know about Star Wars is wrong.
by Jonathan V. Last
12/26/2002 12:00:00 AM



Jonathan V. Last, online editor





STAR WARS RETURNS today with its fifth installment, "Attack of the Clones." There will be talk of the Force and the Dark Side and the epic morality of George Lucas's series. But the truth is that from the beginning, Lucas confused the good guys with the bad. The deep lesson of Star Wars is that the Empire is good.

It's a difficult leap to make--embracing Darth Vader and the Emperor over the plucky and attractive Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia--but a careful examination of the facts, sorted apart from Lucas's off-the-shelf moral cues, makes a quite convincing case.

First, an aside: For the sake of this discussion, I've considered only the history gleaned from the actual Star Wars films, not the Expanded Universe. If you know what the Expanded Universe is and want to argue that no discussion of Star Wars can be complete without considering material outside the canon, that's fine. However, it's always been my view that the comic books and novels largely serve to clean up Lucas's narrative and philosophical messes. Therefore, discussions of intrinsic intent must necessarily revolve around the movies alone. You may disagree, but please don't e-mail me about it.

If you don't know what the Expanded Universe is, well, uh, neither do I.

I. The Problems with the Galactic Republic

At the beginning of the Star Wars saga, the known universe is governed by the Galactic Republic. The Republic is controlled by a Senate, which is, in turn, run by an elected chancellor who's in charge of procedure, but has little real power.

Scores of thousands of planets are represented in the Galactic Senate, and as we first encounter it, it is sclerotic and ineffectual. The Republic has grown over many millennia to the point where there are so many factions and disparate interests, that it is simply too big to be governable. Even the Republic's staunchest supporters recognize this failing: In "The Phantom Menace," Queen Amidala admits, "It is clear to me now that the Republic no longer functions." In "Attack of the Clones," young Anakin Skywalker observes that it simply "doesn't work."

The Senate moves so slowly that it is powerless to stop aggression between member states. In "The Phantom Menace" a supra-planetary alliance, the Trade Federation (think of it as OPEC to the Galactic Republic's United Nations), invades a planet and all the Senate can agree to do is call for an investigation.

Like the United Nations, the Republic has no armed forces of its own, but instead relies on a group of warriors, the Jedi knights, to "keep the peace." The Jedi, while autonomous, often work in tandem with the Senate, trying to smooth over quarrels and avoid conflicts. But the Jedi number only in the thousands--they cannot protect everyone.

What's more, it's not clear that they should be "protecting" anyone. The Jedi are Lucas's great heroes, full of Zen wisdom and righteous power. They encourage people to "use the Force"--the mystical energy which is the source of their power--but the truth, revealed in "The Phantom Menace," is that the Force isn't available to the rabble. The Force comes from midi-chlorians, tiny symbiotic organisms in people's blood, like mitochondria. The Force, it turns out, is an inherited, genetic trait. If you don't have the blood, you don't get the Force. Which makes the Jedi not a democratic militia, but a royalist Swiss guard.

And an arrogant royalist Swiss guard, at that. With one or two notable exceptions, the Jedi we meet in Star Wars are full of themselves. They ignore the counsel of others (often with terrible consequences), and seem honestly to believe that they are at the center of the universe. When the chief Jedi record-keeper is asked in "Attack of the Clones" about a planet she has never heard of, she replies that if it's not in the Jedi archives, it doesn't exist. (The planet in question does exist, again, with terrible consequences.)

In "Attack of the Clones," a mysterious figure, Count Dooku, leads a separatist movement of planets that want to secede from the Republic. Dooku promises these confederates smaller government, unlimited free trade, and an "absolute commitment to capitalism." Dooku's motives are suspect--it's not clear whether or not he believes in these causes. However, there's no reason to doubt the motives of the other separatists--they seem genuinely to want to make a fresh start with a government that isn't bloated and dysfunctional.

The Republic, of course, is eager to quash these separatists, but they never make a compelling case--or any case, for that matter--as to why, if they are such a freedom-loving regime, these planets should not be allowed to check out of the Republic and take control of their own destinies.

II. The Empire

We do not yet know the exact how's and why's, but we do know this: At some point between the end of Episode II and the beginning of Episode IV, the Republic is replaced by an Empire. The first hint comes in "Attack of the Clones," when the Senate's Chancellor Palpatine is granted emergency powers to deal with the separatists. It spoils very little to tell you that Palpatine eventually becomes the Emperor. For a time, he keeps the Senate in place, functioning as a rubber-stamp, much like the Roman imperial senate, but a few minutes into Episode IV, we are informed that the he has dissolved the Senate, and that "the last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."

Lucas wants the Empire to stand for evil, so he tells us that the Emperor and Darth Vader have gone over to the Dark Side and dresses them in black.

But look closer. When Palpatine is still a senator, he says, "The Republic is not what it once was. The Senate is full of greedy, squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good." At one point he laments that "the bureaucrats are in charge now."

Palpatine believes that the political order must be manipulated to produce peace and stability. When he mutters, "There is no civility, there is only politics," we see that at heart, he's an esoteric Straussian.

Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet. It's a dictatorship people can do business with. They collect taxes and patrol the skies. They try to stop organized crime (in the form of the smuggling rings run by the Hutts). The Empire has virtually no effect on the daily life of the average, law-abiding citizen.

Also, unlike the divine-right Jedi, the Empire is a meritocracy. The Empire runs academies throughout the galaxy (Han Solo begins his career at an Imperial academy), and those who show promise are promoted, often rapidly. In "The Empire Strikes Back" Captain Piett is quickly promoted to admiral when his predecessor "falls down on the job."

And while it's a small point, the Empire's manners and decorum speak well of it. When Darth Vader is forced to employ bounty hunters to track down Han Solo, he refuses to address them by name. Even Boba Fett, the greatest of all trackers, is referred to icily as "bounty hunter." And yet Fett understands the protocol. When he captures Solo, he calls him "Captain Solo." (Whether this is in deference to Han's former rank in the Imperial starfleet, or simply because Han owns and
pilots his own ship, we don't know. I suspect it's the former.)

But the most compelling evidence that the Empire isn't evil comes in "The Empire Strikes Back" when Darth Vader is battling Luke Skywalker. After an exhausting fight, Vader is poised to finish Luke off, but he stays his hand. He tries to convert Luke to the Dark Side with this simple plea: "There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you. . . . Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy." It is here we find the real controlling impulse for the Dark Side and the Empire. The Empire doesn't want slaves or destruction or "evil." It wants order.

None of which is to say that the Empire isn't sometimes brutal. In Episode IV, Imperial stormtroopers kill Luke's aunt and uncle and Grand Moff Tarkin orders the destruction of an entire planet, Alderaan. But viewed in context, these acts are less brutal than they initially appear. Poor Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen reach a grisly end, but only after they aid the rebellion by hiding Luke and harboring two fugitive droids. They aren't given due process, but they are traitors.

The destruction of Alderaan is often cited as ipso facto proof of the Empire's "evilness" because it seems like mass murder--planeticide, even. As Tarkin prepares to fire the Death Star, Princess Leia implores him to spare the planet, saying, "Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons." Her plea is important, if true.

But the audience has no reason to believe that Leia is telling the truth. In Episode IV, every bit of information she gives the Empire is willfully untrue. In the opening, she tells Darth Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission of mercy, when in fact she is on a spy mission, trying to deliver schematics of the Death Star to the Rebel Alliance. When asked where the Alliance is headquartered, she lies again.

Leia's lies are perfectly defensible--she thinks she's serving the greater good--but they make her wholly unreliable on the question of whether or not Alderaan really is peaceful and defenseless. If anything, since Leia is a high-ranking member of the rebellion and the princess of Alderaan, it would be reasonable to suspect that Alderaan is a front for Rebel activity or at least home to many more spies and insurgents like Leia.

Whatever the case, the important thing to recognize is that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror. It is engaged in a fight for the survival of its regime against a violent group of rebels who are committed to its destruction.

III. After the Rebellion

As we all know from the final Star Wars installment, "Return of the Jedi," the rebellion is eventually successful. The Emperor is assassinated, Darth Vader abdicates his post and dies, the central governing apparatus of the Empire is destroyed in a spectacular space battle, and the rebels rejoice with their small, annoying Ewok friends. But what happens next?

(There is a raft of literature on this point, but, as I said at the beginning, I'm going to ignore it because it doesn't speak to Lucas's original intent.)

In Episode IV, after Grand Moff Tarkin announces that the Imperial Senate has been abolished, he's asked how the Emperor can possibly hope to keep control of the galaxy. "The regional governors now have direct control over territories," he says. "Fear will keep the local systems in line."

So under Imperial rule, a large group of regional potentates, each with access to a sizable army and star destroyers, runs local affairs. These governors owe their fealty to the Emperor. And once the Emperor is dead, the galaxy will be plunged into chaos.

In all of the time we spend observing the Rebel Alliance, we never hear of their governing strategy or their plans for a post-Imperial universe. All we see are plots and fighting. Their victory over the Empire doesn't liberate the galaxy--it turns the galaxy into Somalia writ large: dominated by local warlords who are answerable to no one.

Which makes the rebels--Lucas's heroes--an unimpressive crew of anarchic royals who wreck the galaxy so that Princess Leia can have her tiara back.

I'll take the Empire.





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  Comments


  • DenmarkVZDenmarkVZ 397 Posts
    and part of my recent correspondence with the author...



    Subject: Re: Your Revenge of the Sith commentary on NPR



    On May 25, 2005, at 1:57 PM, Beylotte, Francis wrote:



    I could care less about whether or not you like the movie. But so much of your commentary about how the Dark side may be better is missing important facts. Not facts that only a star wars geek would get, but facts that are easy to discern from simply watching the movies. Then again, when are facts important to you? Certainly not when they do not support the ideological conclusions that you make before you even look at a topic. Clearly spinning the strange parallels between Neocons and the Sith is more important than getting it right.



    Fatback



    From: Jonathan Last [mailto:jlast@weeklystandard.com]

    Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:49 PM

    To: Beylotte, Francis



    Good point. Thanks for the note.



    Best,

    JVL





    On May 25, 2005, at 2:59 PM, Beylotte, Francis wrote:



    This calls into question the merits of your commentary on more important topics if you can???t even attend to evidence derived from watching a kiddie collage of mythology (that???s why I???m writing to you???I???m looking out for YOUR integrity).



    Weren???t you taught to let evidence lead you to conclusions? Carefully looking at your evidence is the first and most important step. This does not matter when you are starting with a conclusion and cherry picking and spinning evidence to support it. Please stop doing that.







    DJ Fatback



    Thanks again.



    Best,



    JVL




























  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    This must be the new (insane) right wing meme. Atrios had a link to a story by middling sci-fi writer turned conservative cheerleader Orson Scott Card that takes a similar tack.
    If these cornholes see Star Wars as a threat to the fascist hegemony, we're in worse trouble than I thought...

  • ReynaldoReynaldo 6,054 Posts

  • DenmarkVZDenmarkVZ 397 Posts
    Prolly because the idea that Star Wars is another left wing entertainista attempt to indoctrinate the masses with morally inept liberal ideology (i.e. the Million$Baby and Buster spear campaigns) was not going to fly, they decide to go ahead preempt the obvious parallels between, say Darth Sidious and Dick Cheney, by trying to spin the idea that the Empire is actually better.



    And it???s not even funny.


  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    Prolly because the idea that Star Wars is another left wing entertainista attempt to indoctrinate the masses with morally inept liberal ideology (i.e. the Million$Baby and Buster spear campaigns) was not going to fly, they decide to go ahead preempt the obvious parallels between, say Darth Sidious and Dick Cheney, by trying to spin the idea that the Empire is actually better.

    And it???s not even funny.[/b]

    I hear that, brother...


  • DenmarkVZDenmarkVZ 397 Posts
    sorry dude i had to use this for few days.








    ? ? ?[/b]


  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts

    That's pretty funny, but the animator didn't really capture Frist's cold, dead vampire eyes.

  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    sorry dude i had to use this for few days.



    ? ? ?[/b]

    Can one of the intrepid Photoshoppers here turn this pic into an emoticon???

  • twoplytwoply Only Built 4 Manzanita Links 2,914 Posts
    Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet. [/b]


  • Mike_BellMike_Bell 5,736 Posts
    sorry dude i had to use this for few days.



    ? ? ?[/b]
    shit gives me the giggles every time i see it.

  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet. [/b]


    He's really giving himself away with lines like that. Sheesh...

  • DenmarkVZDenmarkVZ 397 Posts
    and part of my recent correspondence with the author...



    Subject: Re: Your Revenge of the Sith commentary on NPR



    On May 25, 2005, at 1:57 PM, Beylotte, Francis wrote:



    I could care less about whether or not you like the movie. But so much of your commentary about how the Dark side may be better is missing important facts. Not facts that only a star wars geek would get, but facts that are easy to discern from simply watching the movies. Then again, when are facts important to you? Certainly not when they do not support the ideological conclusions that you make before you even look at a topic. Clearly spinning the strange parallels between Neocons and the Sith is more important than getting it right.



    Fatback



    From: Jonathan Last [mailto:jlast@weeklystandard.com]

    Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:49 PM

    To: Beylotte, Francis



    Good point. Thanks for the note.



    Best,

    JVL





    On May 25, 2005, at 2:59 PM, Beylotte, Francis wrote:



    This calls into question the merits of your commentary on more important topics if you can???t even attend to evidence derived from watching a kiddie collage of mythology (that???s why I???m writing to you???I???m looking out for YOUR integrity).



    Weren???t you taught to let evidence lead you to conclusions? Carefully looking at your evidence is the first and most important step. This does not matter when you are starting with a conclusion and cherry picking and spinning evidence to support it. Please stop doing that.







    DJ Fatback



    Thanks again.



    Best,



    JVL








    My third email, which I did not send...



    JVL,



    Thanks for writing back and saying thanks twice.



    Hey, I live in DC too. What are you doing later tonight? I'd love beat the fucking shit out of you.



    Holler,



    Fatso Backso

    202-667-9560

  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    SIMMAH DOWN NOW, SIMMAH DOWN

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    sorry dude i had to use this for few days.



    ? ? ?[/b]

    did anyone else hear them joking about this hairdo on NPR this afternoon as a segueway to a piece about how long hair on men will be fashionable this summer?

  • the3rdstreamthe3rdstream 1,980 Posts


    Can one of the intrepid Photoshoppers here turn this pic into an emoticon???

    quick and dirty


  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts


    Can one of the intrepid Photoshoppers here turn this pic into an emoticon???

    quick and dirty


    That'll do jess fine....

  • BsidesBsides 4,244 Posts
    how bout at the beggining of star wars when darth vader blows up a fucking planet! WHat about how the benign dictator was running both sides of the conflict in order to increase his own legislative power?


    I think they are right. Siths are neocons. I dont know why any conservative would jump to state this conclusion though.



  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts

    did anyone else hear them joking about this hairdo on NPR this afternoon as a segueway to a piece about how long hair on men will be fashionable this summer?

    segueway?!?!

    seg way way!

    lol

  • how bout at the beggining of star wars when darth vader blows up a fucking planet!








    I don't blame you for not reading through that drek, but here's dude's ridiculous explanation:



    The destruction of Alderaan is often cited as ipso facto proof of the Empire's "evilness" because it seems like mass murder--planeticide, even. As Tarkin prepares to fire the Death Star, Princess Leia implores him to spare the planet, saying, "Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons." Her plea is important, if true.



    But the audience has no reason to believe that Leia is telling the truth.[/b] In Episode IV, every bit of information she gives the Empire is willfully untrue. In the opening, she tells Darth Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission of mercy, when in fact she is on a spy mission, trying to deliver schematics of the Death Star to the Rebel Alliance. When asked where the Alliance is headquartered, she lies again.



    Leia's lies are perfectly defensible--she thinks she's serving the greater good--but they make her wholly unreliable on the question of whether or not Alderaan really is peaceful and defenseless. If anything, since Leia is a high-ranking member of the rebellion and the princess of Alderaan, it would be reasonable to suspect that Alderaan is a front for Rebel activity or at least home to many more spies and insurgents like Leia.[/b]



    Whatever the case, the important thing to recognize is that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror. It is engaged in a fight for the survival of its regime against a violent group of rebels who are committed to its destruction. [/b]



    In other words: Princess Leia was a LIAR! and Alderaan MIGHT have had Weapons of Mass Destruction! So it's totally understandable that they'd blow the whole fucking planet to space-dust and kill billions of innocents in the process.



    Sound familiar?

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    segueway

    SONNED!

  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    how bout at the beggining of star wars when darth vader blows up a fucking planet!



    I don't blame you for not reading through that drek, but here's dude's ridiculous explanation:

    The destruction of Alderaan is often cited as ipso facto proof of the Empire's "evilness" because it seems like mass murder--planeticide, even. As Tarkin prepares to fire the Death Star, Princess Leia implores him to spare the planet, saying, "Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons." Her plea is important, if true.

    But the audience has no reason to believe that Leia is telling the truth.[/b] In Episode IV, every bit of information she gives the Empire is willfully untrue. In the opening, she tells Darth Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission of mercy, when in fact she is on a spy mission, trying to deliver schematics of the Death Star to the Rebel Alliance. When asked where the Alliance is headquartered, she lies again.

    Leia's lies are perfectly defensible--she thinks she's serving the greater good--but they make her wholly unreliable on the question of whether or not Alderaan really is peaceful and defenseless. If anything, since Leia is a high-ranking member of the rebellion and the princess of Alderaan, it would be reasonable to suspect that Alderaan is a front for Rebel activity or at least home to many more spies and insurgents like Leia.[/b]

    Whatever the case, the important thing to recognize is that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror. It is engaged in a fight for the survival of its regime against a violent group of rebels who are committed to its destruction.

    In other words: Princess Leia was a LIAR! and Alderaan MIGHT have had Weapons of Mass Destruction! So it's totally understandable that they'd blow the whole fucking planet to space-dust and kill billions of innocents in the process.

    Sound familiar?

    Eerily...

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    In other words: Princess Leia was a LIAR! and Alderaan MIGHT have had Weapons of Mass Destruction! So it's totally understandable that they'd blow the whole fucking planet to space-dust and kill billions of innocents in the process.

    Sound familiar?

    Oh yeah, totally reasonable for the Empire to want to wipe out these "insurgents" and "pockets of resistance"...

  • soulmarcosasoulmarcosa 4,296 Posts
    JVL,

    Thanks for writing back and saying thanks twice.

    Hey, I live in DC too. What are you doing later tonight? Listen, let's let bygones be bygones. You pick a time, we'll meet at Burrito Brothers on Penn Ave, I'll buy you a burrito, then I'll punch you in the stomach, watch the food fly out of your mouth, and then play bass licks on your grave.

    Holler,

    Fatso Backso
    202-667-9560

    P.S. I'M SO HEAVY (bahd ah bahd dah) GOTTA GET DOWN (bahd ah bahd dah)

    P.P.S. Ah, just kidding. Have you heard of the Hcrinkles?

  • DenmarkVZDenmarkVZ 397 Posts
    how bout at the beggining of star wars when darth vader blows up a fucking planet!



    I don't blame you for not reading through that drek, but here's dude's ridiculous explanation:

    The destruction of Alderaan is often cited as ipso facto proof of the Empire's "evilness" because it seems like mass murder--planeticide, even. As Tarkin prepares to fire the Death Star, Princess Leia implores him to spare the planet, saying, "Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons." Her plea is important, if true.

    But the audience has no reason to believe that Leia is telling the truth.[/b] In Episode IV, every bit of information she gives the Empire is willfully untrue. In the opening, she tells Darth Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission of mercy, when in fact she is on a spy mission, trying to deliver schematics of the Death Star to the Rebel Alliance. When asked where the Alliance is headquartered, she lies again.

    Leia's lies are perfectly defensible--she thinks she's serving the greater good--but they make her wholly unreliable on the question of whether or not Alderaan really is peaceful and defenseless. If anything, since Leia is a high-ranking member of the rebellion and the princess of Alderaan, it would be reasonable to suspect that Alderaan is a front for Rebel activity or at least home to many more spies and insurgents like Leia.[/b]

    Whatever the case, the important thing to recognize is that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror. It is engaged in a fight for the survival of its regime against a violent group of rebels who are committed to its destruction.

    In other words: Princess Leia was a LIAR! and Alderaan MIGHT have had Weapons of Mass Destruction! So it's totally understandable that they'd blow the whole fucking planet to space-dust and kill billions of innocents in the process.

    Sound familiar?

    Eerily...

    I'm saying the parallels are too damn wierd. Lucas was writing this during Nixon? Now we have Nixon reprise. So it fits.


  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    how bout at the beggining of star wars when darth vader blows up a fucking planet!



    I don't blame you for not reading through that drek, but here's dude's ridiculous explanation:

    The destruction of Alderaan is often cited as ipso facto proof of the Empire's "evilness" because it seems like mass murder--planeticide, even. As Tarkin prepares to fire the Death Star, Princess Leia implores him to spare the planet, saying, "Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons." Her plea is important, if true.

    But the audience has no reason to believe that Leia is telling the truth.[/b] In Episode IV, every bit of information she gives the Empire is willfully untrue. In the opening, she tells Darth Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission of mercy, when in fact she is on a spy mission, trying to deliver schematics of the Death Star to the Rebel Alliance. When asked where the Alliance is headquartered, she lies again.

    Leia's lies are perfectly defensible--she thinks she's serving the greater good--but they make her wholly unreliable on the question of whether or not Alderaan really is peaceful and defenseless. If anything, since Leia is a high-ranking member of the rebellion and the princess of Alderaan, it would be reasonable to suspect that Alderaan is a front for Rebel activity or at least home to many more spies and insurgents like Leia.[/b]

    Whatever the case, the important thing to recognize is that the Empire is not committing random acts of terror. It is engaged in a fight for the survival of its regime against a violent group of rebels who are committed to its destruction.

    In other words: Princess Leia was a LIAR! and Alderaan MIGHT have had Weapons of Mass Destruction! So it's totally understandable that they'd blow the whole fucking planet to space-dust and kill billions of innocents in the process.

    Sound familiar?

    Eerily...

    I'm saying the parallels are too damn wierd. Lucas was writing this during Nixon? Now we have Nixon reprise. So it fits.


    These goons make Nixon look like Little Mary Sunshine...

  • the3rdstreamthe3rdstream 1,980 Posts

    Fatso Backso
    202-667-9560


    is this real, if so how the hell do prononce you last name, like ear ring?

    and as for this neocon sith thing, your a moron if you argue on either side of this debate

  • DenmarkVZDenmarkVZ 397 Posts
    Lucas was not only biting every filming style under the sun, but also remixing classic mythology regarding war and peace, democracy and imperialism, and by proxy good and evil.



    Seeing those parallels is nowhere near moronic. Ignoring them is.






  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    Lucas was not only biting every filming style under the sun, but also remixing classic mythology regarding war and peace, democracy and imperialism, and by proxy good and evil.

    Seeing those parallels is nowhere near moronic. Ignoring them is.



    Don't forget classic Kurosawa Samurai flicks.

    Invite the author to Happy Hour tonight and we'll give Gumby a curb job(no AYO).

  • the3rdstreamthe3rdstream 1,980 Posts
    dude i am a fan, but getting this deep into it is on trekkie territory
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