Why couldnt he just be like "yeah i used to hate on all this shit, but now Im into it".
Because he was at pains to differentiate himself from those other people that used to hate all that schitt but are now into it; whereas they hated baselessly, he only hated until the music "gelled".
Space Age is my favorite album by them. Does that my taste suspect?
cosign...
and I don't think he is saying they sucked. I think he is just saying that his taste may have changed. But then again some posters on this board are very good at putting words in people's mouths so please to continue to get asshurt and misinterpret.
While Shadow's framing of his opinion is regrettable, I don't find it much more so than the thin-skindedness displayed in this thread. I mean, "imposing one's personal consciousness on the artist" is the definition of musical taste. I don't see that dude is voicing (albeit clumsily) anything that is not, in its essence, felt by every single person here about every single artist whose work they follow with any dedication, namely: "I think their stuff was/wasn't good until x point." It seems to me like a very very basic expression of personal opinion; why exactly are dudes trying to act like he's spitting in the face of historical fact or something? Please explain to me how any of this amounts to anything more than "DJ Shadow doesn't like the early work of 8Ball and MJG as much as I do."
While Shadow's framing of his opinion is regrettable, I don't find it much more so than the thin-skindedness displayed in this thread. I mean, "imposing one's personal consciousness on the artist" is the definition of musical taste. I don't see that dude is voicing (albeit clumsily) anything that is not, in its essence, felt by every single person here about every single artist whose work they follow with any dedication, namely: "I think their stuff was/wasn't good until x point." It seems to me like a very very basic expression of personal opinion; why exactly are dudes trying to act like he's spitting in the face of historical fact or something? Please explain to me how any of this amounts to anything more than "DJ Shadow doesn't like the early work of 8Ball and MJG as much as I do."
Because he's clearly up to more than a simple expression of taste. When taken in full context, his remarks are actually more damning than the snippet I posted in isolation--he's at pains to differentiate himself from the haters and defenders of "real hip-hop," yet unwilling to fully disavow those attitudes himself--they were apparently justifiable when he held them because the music in question just wasn't good back then. Does both my argument and his ultimately rely on an aesthetic judgment? Clearly--but my position that Ball and G's pre-1997 records are at least as good as, if not better than, anything they've done since then is one shared by almost everyone that knows their catalog, and seems to me to come as close to fact as any aestehtic judgment can.
Space Age is my favorite album by them. Does that my taste suspect?
cosign...
and I don't think he is saying they sucked. I think he is just saying that his taste may have changed. But then again some posters on this board are very good at putting words in people's mouths so please to continue to get asshurt and misinterpret.
Once again: if you have nothing to contribute beyond whining about "putting words in people's mouths" please stay out of the thread.
My "interpreation" is based on the plain text of the interview; yours--and that of everyone complaining about "out of context" and "words put in people's mouth" is based on some weird conviction that you know what dude's innermost thoughts--are and that what he's saying isn't actaully what he's saying.
While Shadow's framing of his opinion is regrettable, I don't find it much more so than the thin-skindedness displayed in this thread. I mean, "imposing one's personal consciousness on the artist" is the definition of musical taste. I don't see that dude is voicing (albeit clumsily) anything that is not, in its essence, felt by every single person here about every single artist whose work they follow with any dedication, namely: "I think their stuff was/wasn't good until x point." It seems to me like a very very basic expression of personal opinion; why exactly are dudes trying to act like he's spitting in the face of historical fact or something? Please explain to me how any of this amounts to anything more than "DJ Shadow doesn't like the early work of 8Ball and MJG as much as I do."
Because he's clearly up to more than a simple expression of taste. When taken in full context, his remarks are actually more damning than the snippet I posted in isolation--he's at pains to differentiate himself from the haters and defenders of "real hip-hop," yet unwilling to fully disavow those attitudes himself--they were apparently justifiable when he held them because the music in question just wasn't good back then.
Space Age is my favorite album by them. Does that my taste suspect?
cosign...
and I don't think he is saying they sucked. I think he is just saying that his taste may have changed. But then again some posters on this board are very good at putting words in people's mouths so please to continue to get asshurt and misinterpret.
Once again: if you have nothing to contribute beyond whining about "putting words in people's mouths" please stay out of the thread.
My "interpreation" is based on the plain text of the interview; yours--and that of everyone complaining about "out of context" and "words put in people's mouth" is based on some weird conviction that you know what dude's innermost thoughts--are and that what he's saying isn't actaully what he's saying.
ha... are you serious? Your interpretation is nothing more than talking shit about someone you have never met and warping an interview in Fox-news style manner. I don't claim to know what dude is saying, but the fact you are getting asshurt over something like that shows your toyness. Enjoy being a little dude.
While Shadow's framing of his opinion is regrettable, I don't find it much more so than the thin-skindedness displayed in this thread. I mean, "imposing one's personal consciousness on the artist" is the definition of musical taste. I don't see that dude is voicing (albeit clumsily) anything that is not, in its essence, felt by every single person here about every single artist whose work they follow with any dedication, namely: "I think their stuff was/wasn't good until x point." It seems to me like a very very basic expression of personal opinion; why exactly are dudes trying to act like he's spitting in the face of historical fact or something? Please explain to me how any of this amounts to anything more than "DJ Shadow doesn't like the early work of 8Ball and MJG as much as I do."
Because he's clearly up to more than a simple expression of taste. When taken in full context, his remarks are actually more damning than the snippet I posted in isolation--he's at pains to differentiate himself from the haters and defenders of "real hip-hop," yet unwilling to fully disavow those attitudes himself--they were apparently justifiable when he held them because the music in question just wasn't good back then.
What do you mean by "those attitudes"?
There was a big movement in hip-hop to keep it pure and keep it real and all that. And that had a valid place. Having already been a listener for eight years [at] that point, I really aligned myself with that sort of ideology, which was the real versus the fake, or real versus commercial.
I guess what I???m trying to say that it made sense, at a certain point, for there to be what ended up becoming the underground hip-hop movement or backpack rap or whatever.
Ha-Ha! Faux Rillx - 1993 - weren't you still wearing chokers back then?
In 1993 you wouldn't have touched Comin Out Hard with a 10-foot POLE. You don't have to give these Soulstrut suckers a break, but at least give ME a break, I read this schitt too, you know.
I didn't dig Comin Out Hard so much when it came out cause the vocals are mixed so LOUD it was awkward sounding, the beats didn't knock in the same way as Scarface's 1st, or Top Authority or Dayton Family. And plus there's just only so much gun talk I can take, as a sensitive man, in one erra.
Listening back to Comin Out Hard NOW though, it sounds real cool cause it's distinguished - it's a hardcore gansta rapp album with lots of crunchy sounds sampled from old soul records. I think oncet the G-Funk sound really took hold, you weren't going to hear any more crunchy soul samples from gansta rappers in the South or the West.
The other thing is people of all shades and all levels of authenticity have gotten a lot more used to hearing Memphis accents and cadences, so what might have sounded awkward back in '93 now makes a little more sense after having digested so much Three-6 + Project Pat + Kingpin Skinny Pimp in the interim.
So james, yes, it is a historical fact that Comin Out Hard is that good schitt, if anyone dare argue it is not, they have to argue so with a straight face and both hands visible, while the ACTUAL MUSIC is playing on a nice system in the background.
While Shadow's framing of his opinion is regrettable, I don't find it much more so than the thin-skindedness displayed in this thread. I mean, "imposing one's personal consciousness on the artist" is the definition of musical taste. I don't see that dude is voicing (albeit clumsily) anything that is not, in its essence, felt by every single person here about every single artist whose work they follow with any dedication, namely: "I think their stuff was/wasn't good until x point." It seems to me like a very very basic expression of personal opinion; why exactly are dudes trying to act like he's spitting in the face of historical fact or something? Please explain to me how any of this amounts to anything more than "DJ Shadow doesn't like the early work of 8Ball and MJG as much as I do."
Because he's clearly up to more than a simple expression of taste. When taken in full context, his remarks are actually more damning than the snippet I posted in isolation--he's at pains to differentiate himself from the haters and defenders of "real hip-hop," yet unwilling to fully disavow those attitudes himself--they were apparently justifiable when he held them because the music in question just wasn't good back then.
What do you mean by "those attitudes"?
There was a big movement in hip-hop to keep it pure and keep it real and all that. And that had a valid place. Having already been a listener for eight years [at] that point, I really aligned myself with that sort of ideology, which was the real versus the fake, or real versus commercial.
I guess what I???m trying to say that it made sense, at a certain point, for there to be what ended up becoming the underground hip-hop movement or backpack rap or whatever.
But as far as I???m concerned, it hasn???t really applied to my listening or my musical tastes for a number of years, at least since ???96.
I don't read that as someone "at pains to differentiate himself from the haters and defenders of 'real hip-hop'", but rather as someone saying that while that mindset was important and relevant and attractive to him at one time, but that he's grown out of it, or at least away from it.
Again, you speak of all this being somehow "damning," but I still don't see exactly what the transgression is, apart from a difference of personal opinion.
Ha-Ha! Faux Rillx - 1993 - weren't you still wearing chokers back then?
In 1993 you wouldn't have touched Comin Out Hard with a 10-foot POLE. You don't have to give these Soulstrut suckers a break, but at least give ME a break, I read this schitt too, you know.
No question I probably would have hated had I even been aware of that album at 16. But I won't pretend at 30 that that attitude was justified by the music.
to me that quote says "eightball and mjg sucked up until 97/98" which is a fucking absurd statement to make. its bad enough that they're completely under appreciated by non-southern rap headz
I dont know about the rest of the country, but where I grew up in Northern IL, dudes were pumpin 8Ball and MJG hard. I remember hearing Comin Out Hard when I was 14 in the parking lot of high school, and shit like 3-6, Dayton Family, Ghetto Boyz, etc. Its funny, cuz while I did get into some 8Ball and MJG, I would kinda hate on most of this shit, cuz I heard it so much, and I was always trying not to follow "the trend".
This shit was just as popular to most kids as Tupac and Biggie. Southern Rap has always been popular in IL, and most of the Midwest as far as I can tell. I would guess even moreso than most Midwest rap.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
There was a big movement in hip-hop to keep it pure and keep it real and all that. And that had a valid place. Having already been a listener for eight years [at] that point, I really aligned myself with that sort of ideology, which was the real versus the fake, or real versus commercial.
Little did he and a lot of other people know that 8Ball & MJG was realer than what they then thought was real.
To me, I never understood how a group like De La Soul, which I was initially introduced to by hearing "Me Myself and I" played on the radio between Erasure's "Sometimes" and Paula Abdul's "Cold Hearted Snake", was somehow considered to represent the anti-commercial movement...while dude's hustling their tapes and cd's on the street were somehow the ultimate personifications of corporate greed.
Of course I also get the whole stereotypical vs. anti-stereotypical analysis that goes hand in hand with the marketing background, but if you really listened to the way that a lot of backpackers framed their stance...it simply didn't add up.
That's why when De La Soul came out with what I consider their big fat whiny terd "Stakes Is High," I was like forget riding the fence anymore between these 2 camps. These dudes over here are friggin idiots.
I didn't dig Comin Out Hard so much when it came out cause the vocals are mixed so LOUD it was awkward sounding, the beats didn't knock in the same way as Scarface's 1st, or Top Authority or Dayton Family.
I think this demonstrates exactly why people that were headlong into "Real Rap" in the early '90s weren't immediately taken by southern shit-- it was all a little lo-fi. Dudes were operating at the margins of the NY-LA axis and the murky beats and strange cadences were totally alien. I mean listen to the first Triple Six EP and tell me that shit wouldn't be dismissed as "WACK AS FUCK" when it came out. You have horror movie synths (synths! blasphemy!) and slowed-down syrup vocals, and a dude into KMD, DITC or even NWA had no idea what the hell that shit was about. So with the progression of studio equipment, naturally the southern shit became more "listenable" from an audio perspective, which is why, like Josh D., I didn't really get into Triple 6, Ball & G, etc. until the mid-90s.
Just my experience with the topic.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I didn't dig Comin Out Hard so much when it came out cause the vocals are mixed so LOUD it was awkward sounding, the beats didn't knock in the same way as Scarface's 1st, or Top Authority or Dayton Family.
I think this demonstrates exactly why people that were headlong into "Real Rap" in the early '90s weren't immediately taken by southern shit-- it was all a little lo-fi. Dudes were operating at the margins of the NY-LA axis and the murky beats and strange cadences were totally alien. I mean listen to the first Triple Six EP and tell me that shit wouldn't be dismissed as "WACK AS FUCK" when it came out. You have horror movie synths (synths! blasphemy!) and slowed-down syrup vocals, and a dude into KMD, DITC or even NWA had no idea what the hell that shit was about. So with the progression of studio equipment, naturally the southern shit became more "listenable" from an audio perspective, which is why, like Josh D., I didn't really get into Triple 6, Ball & G, etc. until the mid-90s.
Just my experience with the topic.
I don't know. In my mind, heavy late-80's doses of Too $hort prepared me and a lot of other people for all of that murky Down South shit to come.
Plus I actually lived Down South, so that might have helped as well.
While Shadow's framing of his opinion is regrettable, I don't find it much more so than the thin-skindedness displayed in this thread. I mean, "imposing one's personal consciousness on the artist" is the definition of musical taste. I don't see that dude is voicing (albeit clumsily) anything that is not, in its essence, felt by every single person here about every single artist whose work they follow with any dedication, namely: "I think their stuff was/wasn't good until x point." It seems to me like a very very basic expression of personal opinion; why exactly are dudes trying to act like he's spitting in the face of historical fact or something? Please explain to me how any of this amounts to anything more than "DJ Shadow doesn't like the early work of 8Ball and MJG as much as I do."
Because he's clearly up to more than a simple expression of taste. When taken in full context, his remarks are actually more damning than the snippet I posted in isolation--he's at pains to differentiate himself from the haters and defenders of "real hip-hop," yet unwilling to fully disavow those attitudes himself--they were apparently justifiable when he held them because the music in question just wasn't good back then.
What do you mean by "those attitudes"?
There was a big movement in hip-hop to keep it pure and keep it real and all that. And that had a valid place. Having already been a listener for eight years [at] that point, I really aligned myself with that sort of ideology, which was the real versus the fake, or real versus commercial.
I guess what I???m trying to say that it made sense, at a certain point, for there to be what ended up becoming the underground hip-hop movement or backpack rap or whatever.
But as far as I???m concerned, it hasn???t really applied to my listening or my musical tastes for a number of years, at least since ???96.
I don't read that as someone "at pains to differentiate himself from the haters and defenders of 'real hip-hop'", but rather as someone saying that while that mindset was important and relevant and attractive to him at one time, but that he's grown out of it, or at least away from it.
Again, you speak of all this being somehow "damning," but I still don't see exactly what the transgression is, apart from a difference of personal opinion.
Well, you're being a little slick, james, suggesting that quotations I offered in response to one of your questions ("what are these attitudes?") actually constitute his efforts to distinguish himself from people that hold those attitudes.
You don't find his insistence that what changed was not his attitude--which remains valid as applied to pre-1997 rap--but the music itself, distasteful? He didn't realize over time that those ideas were flawed so much as the music itself changed rendering them obsolete--"the fly-by-night bullshit became good"?
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
To me, I never understood how a group like De La Soul, which I was initially introduced to by hearing "Me Myself and I" played on the radio between Erasure's "Sometimes" and Paula Abdul's "Cold Hearted Snake", was somehow considered to represent the anti-commercial movement...while dude's hustling their tapes and cd's on the street were somehow the ultimate personifications of corporate greed.
Was there an actual "anti-commercial movement" back then? Sure, there were the first signs of a division between "real"/"hardcore" and "fake"/"soft", but to me that looked like just another trend, along with high-top fades, Troop tracksuits, Africa pendants and dookie gold ropes. Actual battle lines weren't drawn until much later, after the industry at large realised that hardcore shit was what really sold. To me, the "dudes hustlin'" were just different kinds of rappers.
Space Age is my favorite album by them. Does that my taste suspect?
cosign...
and I don't think he is saying they sucked. I think he is just saying that his taste may have changed. But then again some posters on this board are very good at putting words in people's mouths so please to continue to get asshurt and misinterpret.
Once again: if you have nothing to contribute beyond whining about "putting words in people's mouths" please stay out of the thread.
My "interpreation" is based on the plain text of the interview; yours--and that of everyone complaining about "out of context" and "words put in people's mouth" is based on some weird conviction that you know what dude's innermost thoughts--are and that what he's saying isn't actaully what he's saying.
ha... are you serious? Your interpretation is nothing more than talking shit about someone you have never met and warping an interview in Fox-news style manner. I don't claim to know what dude is saying, but the fact you are getting asshurt over something like that shows your toyness. Enjoy being a little dude.
He's a public figure giving an interview--in the world in which I live one is allowed to comment on the substance of such interviews without being subjected to cries of "but you've never even met him!"
Now either contribute something substantial to the thread like james, Dante and the one Clubbup or bounce.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
To me, I never understood how a group like De La Soul, which I was initially introduced to by hearing "Me Myself and I" played on the radio between Erasure's "Sometimes" and Paula Abdul's "Cold Hearted Snake", was somehow considered to represent the anti-commercial movement...while dude's hustling their tapes and cd's on the street were somehow the ultimate personifications of corporate greed.
Was there an actual "anti-commercial movement" back then? Sure, there were the first signs of a division between "real"/"hardcore" and "fake"/"soft", but to me that looked like just another trend, along with high-top fades, Troop tracksuits, Africa pendants and dookie gold ropes. Actual battle lines weren't drawn until much later, after the industry at large realised that hardcore shit was what really sold. To me, the "dudes hustlin'" were just different kinds of rappers.
It wasn't so much that De La claimed themselves as anti-commercial. It's that those who down the line a bit began to identify themselves as anti-commerical rap listeners would most frequently prop De La Soul up as their prime example of how it should be done...which was basically making a fashion-statement/sport/career off of parodying the actual realness of others.
You don't find his insistence that what changed was not his attitude--which remains valid as applied to pre-1997 rap--but the music itself distasteful?
I find it ham-fisted and clunky, but "distasteful" implies some kind of affront to propriety, and I don't think propriety has anything to do with aesthetic judgement, which--as you've admitted--is what this all boils down to.
Furthermore, as you yourself are not exactly a stranger to the "all of [artist]'s work before/after [date] is garbage"-type pronouncement, I'm more than a little surprised that you're taking this so hard.
You don't find his insistence that what changed was not his attitude--which remains valid as applied to pre-1997 rap--but the music itself distasteful?
I find it ham-fisted and clunky, but "distasteful" implies some kind of affront to propriety, and I don't think propriety has anything to do with aesthetic judgement, which--as you've admitted--is what this all boils down to.
Furthermore, as you yourself are not exactly a stranger to the "all of [artist]'s work before/after [date] is garbage"-type pronouncement, I'm more than a little surprised that you're taking this so hard.
Of course--but my pronouncements are always aesthetically sound.
I think we've reached an impasse--shall we now peter out into obviously insincere agreement to disagree?
You don't find his insistence that what changed was not his attitude--which remains valid as applied to pre-1997 rap--but the music itself distasteful?
I find it ham-fisted and clunky, but "distasteful" implies some kind of affront to propriety, and I don't think propriety has anything to do with aesthetic judgement, which--as you've admitted--is what this all boils down to.
Furthermore, as you yourself are not exactly a stranger to the "all of [artist]'s work before/after [date] is garbage"-type pronouncement, I'm more than a little surprised that you're taking this so hard.
Space Age is my favorite album by them. Does that my taste suspect?
cosign...
and I don't think he is saying they sucked. I think he is just saying that his taste may have changed. But then again some posters on this board are very good at putting words in people's mouths so please to continue to get asshurt and misinterpret.
Once again: if you have nothing to contribute beyond whining about "putting words in people's mouths" please stay out of the thread.
My "interpreation" is based on the plain text of the interview; yours--and that of everyone complaining about "out of context" and "words put in people's mouth" is based on some weird conviction that you know what dude's innermost thoughts--are and that what he's saying isn't actaully what he's saying.
ha... are you serious? Your interpretation is nothing more than talking shit about someone you have never met and warping an interview in Fox-news style manner. I don't claim to know what dude is saying, but the fact you are getting asshurt over something like that shows your toyness. Enjoy being a little dude.
He's a public figure giving an interview--in the world in which I live one is allowed to comment on the substance of such interviews without being subjected to cries of "but you've never even met him!"
Now either contribute something substantial to the thread like james, Dante and the one Clubbup or bounce.
"Bounce" Nah I prefer to stick around but thanks for the offer.
Comments
Because he was at pains to differentiate himself from those other people that used to hate all that schitt but are now into it; whereas they hated baselessly, he only hated until the music "gelled".
cosign...
and I don't think he is saying they sucked. I think he is just saying that his taste may have changed. But then again some posters on this board are very good at putting words in people's mouths so please to continue to get asshurt and misinterpret.
Because he's clearly up to more than a simple expression of taste. When taken in full context, his remarks are actually more damning than the snippet I posted in isolation--he's at pains to differentiate himself from the haters and defenders of "real hip-hop," yet unwilling to fully disavow those attitudes himself--they were apparently justifiable when he held them because the music in question just wasn't good back then. Does both my argument and his ultimately rely on an aesthetic judgment? Clearly--but my position that Ball and G's pre-1997 records are at least as good as, if not better than, anything they've done since then is one shared by almost everyone that knows their catalog, and seems to me to come as close to fact as any aestehtic judgment can.
Once again: if you have nothing to contribute beyond whining about "putting words in people's mouths" please stay out of the thread.
My "interpreation" is based on the plain text of the interview; yours--and that of everyone complaining about "out of context" and "words put in people's mouth" is based on some weird conviction that you know what dude's innermost thoughts--are and that what he's saying isn't actaully what he's saying.
What do you mean by "those attitudes"?
ha... are you serious? Your interpretation is nothing more than talking shit about someone you have never met and warping an interview in Fox-news style manner. I don't claim to know what dude is saying, but the fact you are getting asshurt over something like that shows your toyness. Enjoy being a little dude.
For my knowledge, how old are you?
Ha-Ha! Faux Rillx - 1993 - weren't you still wearing chokers back then?
In 1993 you wouldn't have touched Comin Out Hard with a 10-foot POLE.
You don't have to give these Soulstrut suckers a break, but at least
give ME a break, I read this schitt too, you know.
I didn't dig Comin Out Hard so much when it came out cause the vocals
are mixed so LOUD it was awkward sounding, the beats didn't knock in the same way as Scarface's 1st, or Top Authority or Dayton Family. And plus there's just only so much gun talk I can take, as a sensitive man, in one erra.
Listening back to Comin Out Hard NOW though, it sounds real cool
cause it's distinguished - it's a hardcore gansta rapp album with
lots of crunchy sounds sampled from old soul records. I think oncet
the G-Funk sound really took hold, you weren't going to hear any more
crunchy soul samples from gansta rappers in the South or the West.
The other thing is people of all shades and all levels of authenticity
have gotten a lot more used to hearing Memphis accents and cadences, so
what might have sounded awkward back in '93 now makes a little more sense
after having digested so much Three-6 + Project Pat + Kingpin Skinny Pimp
in the interim.
So james, yes, it is a historical fact that Comin Out Hard is that
good schitt, if anyone dare argue it is not, they have to argue so
with a straight face and both hands visible, while the ACTUAL MUSIC
is playing on a nice system in the background.
30 in January.
I don't read that as someone "at pains to differentiate himself from the haters and defenders of 'real hip-hop'", but rather as someone saying that while that mindset was important and relevant and attractive to him at one time, but that he's grown out of it, or at least away from it.
Again, you speak of all this being somehow "damning," but I still don't see exactly what the transgression is, apart from a difference of personal opinion.
No question I probably would have hated had I even been aware of that album at 16. But I won't pretend at 30 that that attitude was justified by the music.
I dont know about the rest of the country, but where I grew up in Northern IL, dudes were pumpin 8Ball and MJG hard. I remember hearing Comin Out Hard when I was 14 in the parking lot of high school, and shit like 3-6, Dayton Family, Ghetto Boyz, etc. Its funny, cuz while I did get into some 8Ball and MJG, I would kinda hate on most of this shit, cuz I heard it so much, and I was always trying not to follow "the trend".
This shit was just as popular to most kids as Tupac and Biggie. Southern Rap has always been popular in IL, and most of the Midwest as far as I can tell. I would guess even moreso than most Midwest rap.
Little did he and a lot of other people know that 8Ball & MJG was realer than what they then thought was real.
To me, I never understood how a group like De La Soul, which I was initially introduced to by hearing "Me Myself and I" played on the radio between Erasure's "Sometimes" and Paula Abdul's "Cold Hearted Snake", was somehow considered to represent the anti-commercial movement...while dude's hustling their tapes and cd's on the street were somehow the ultimate personifications of corporate greed.
Of course I also get the whole stereotypical vs. anti-stereotypical analysis that goes hand in hand with the marketing background, but if you really listened to the way that a lot of backpackers framed their stance...it simply didn't add up.
That's why when De La Soul came out with what I consider their big fat whiny terd "Stakes Is High," I was like forget riding the fence anymore between these 2 camps. These dudes over here are friggin idiots.
Uh, bro... thats Guzzo.
I think this demonstrates exactly why people that were headlong into "Real Rap" in the early '90s weren't immediately taken by southern shit-- it was all a little lo-fi.
Dudes were operating at the margins of the NY-LA axis and the murky beats and strange cadences were totally alien. I mean listen to the first Triple Six EP and tell me that shit wouldn't be dismissed as "WACK AS FUCK" when it came out. You have horror movie synths (synths! blasphemy!) and slowed-down syrup vocals, and a dude into KMD, DITC or even NWA had no idea what the hell that shit was about.
So with the progression of studio equipment, naturally the southern shit became more "listenable" from an audio perspective, which is why, like Josh D., I didn't really get into Triple 6, Ball & G, etc. until the mid-90s.
Just my experience with the topic.
I don't know. In my mind, heavy late-80's doses of Too $hort prepared me and a lot of other people for all of that murky Down South shit to come.
Plus I actually lived Down South, so that might have helped as well.
Well, you're being a little slick, james, suggesting that quotations I offered in response to one of your questions ("what are these attitudes?") actually constitute his efforts to distinguish himself from people that hold those attitudes.
You don't find his insistence that what changed was not his attitude--which remains valid as applied to pre-1997 rap--but the music itself, distasteful? He didn't realize over time that those ideas were flawed so much as the music itself changed rendering them obsolete--"the fly-by-night bullshit became good"?
Was there an actual "anti-commercial movement" back then? Sure, there were the first signs of a division between "real"/"hardcore" and "fake"/"soft", but to me that looked like just another trend, along with high-top fades, Troop tracksuits, Africa pendants and dookie gold ropes. Actual battle lines weren't drawn until much later, after the industry at large realised that hardcore shit was what really sold. To me, the "dudes hustlin'" were just different kinds of rappers.
He's a public figure giving an interview--in the world in which I live one is allowed to comment on the substance of such interviews without being subjected to cries of "but you've never even met him!"
Now either contribute something substantial to the thread like james, Dante and the one Clubbup or bounce.
It wasn't so much that De La claimed themselves as anti-commercial. It's that those who down the line a bit began to identify themselves as anti-commerical rap listeners would most frequently prop De La Soul up as their prime example of how it should be done...which was basically making a fashion-statement/sport/career off of parodying the actual realness of others.
Furthermore, as you yourself are not exactly a stranger to the "all of [artist]'s work before/after [date] is garbage"-type pronouncement, I'm more than a little surprised that you're taking this so hard.
Bring the Kyper, Tairrie B, and KC Flightt cassettes to Gaylords and we're all good.
What was REALLY in the early '90s?
Sincerely,
Dante
dissing Comin Out Hard in 1993 = ignorance
dissing Comin Out Hard in 2006 = impropriety![/b]
Of course--but my pronouncements are always aesthetically sound.
I think we've reached an impasse--shall we now peter out into obviously insincere agreement to disagree?
exactly, thank you.
"Bounce" Nah I prefer to stick around but thanks for the offer.